Need my first nice tv. Suggestions please. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 27 Old 07-27-2019, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Need my first nice tv. Suggestions please.

I've never owned a nice tv, but have lived in a house with a windowless room set up for a projection tv for about ten years. We had lighting strike recently and ruin a bunch of our electronics. I need to get a new tv in the next month and would like to keep it under $3,000.



If I had to buy one today without advice, I'd buy this as I've had my eye on it before.



https://www.amazon.com/LG-Theater-Pr...a-783995148859


I don't know where to go look at any tv's in person. I am pretty sure I'd like laser. I'd like a big screen as I'll have a whole wall to put the screen on. I was told at one point that this particular projector doesn't have a very good ability to move from the screen compared to other projectors and I am worried that with a screen size like 150", I'd have to mount the projector back far enough, that people in between would interfere with the picture. I want 4k, but I know this price range offers sort of 4k instead of actual native 4k, or it did when I last looked around.


Thanks again for any advice.


Matt
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post #2 of 27 Old 07-27-2019, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porknz View Post
I've never owned a nice tv, but have lived in a house with a windowless room set up for a projection tv for about ten years. We had lighting strike recently and ruin a bunch of our electronics. I need to get a new tv in the next month and would like to keep it under $3,000.



If I had to buy one today without advice, I'd buy this as I've had my eye on it before.



https://www.amazon.com/LG-Theater-Pr...a-783995148859


I don't know where to go look at any tv's in person. I am pretty sure I'd like laser. I'd like a big screen as I'll have a whole wall to put the screen on. I was told at one point that this particular projector doesn't have a very good ability to move from the screen compared to other projectors and I am worried that with a screen size like 150", I'd have to mount the projector back far enough, that people in between would interfere with the picture. I want 4k, but I know this price range offers sort of 4k instead of actual native 4k, or it did when I last looked around.


Thanks again for any advice.


Matt
That is not a particularly short-throw projector. You would need to be able to place it 15' from the screen for a 150" image. The Benq HT3550 would provide a better 4k image for less money and require only 12.5' distance. Distaince are always from lens to screen, so you need more distance for the body of the projector.

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post #3 of 27 Old 07-27-2019, 11:56 PM
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A little more information would help a lot. The exact dimensions of the room and any restrictions of where you want your seating. Type of content you primarily watch as in movies, sports, gaming or general TV. Do you want a truly dedicated room like a theater with dark painted ceiling/walls or a more general use room and watch with some lights on. Do you have a audio system as projectors are mostly considered video monitors and audio is handled separately with preferably an AVR. Ceiling mounting is the most common place to put the projector so need to know if there are any restrictions of where you can put the projector.

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post #4 of 27 Old 07-28-2019, 04:45 AM
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If you want laser your best bet in your price bracket would be a secondhand Optoma UHZ65.

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post #5 of 27 Old 07-28-2019, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the patience and the questions. Never set up a projector before.


Room height is 9', but there is some duct work, so let's say about 94" usable height. Depends on if the projector if flat on the ceiling or hangs down a bit whether angle to the duct work impacts more I suppose.



Width of room is about 183". This would be the wall the screen (undetermined size) would go on.


Bar seating is about 174" back from the wall. I'd prefer the projector wasn't any further back than that, but there is an open dance floor behind the bar seating that extends another 140" further back if needed. Obviously the further back, the harder it is to clear everyone standing or sitting in front of it (especially sitting at the first bar) but the second bar is about 315" back from the wall just for reference.


I would like to have one row of seating in front of the bar seating that is 174" back from the wall, possibly one row of theater seats in my dreams.


No windows in the room. Lighter carpet, but very dark brown walls and ceiling.


I don't plan to do any gaming on it, other than the occasional guys night, let's hook he wii up and try some Mario Kart on it type of situation. General tv, and sports mostly. It would be nice to have people over with the game on and people eating and drinking back at the second bar with some downward spots on. 4k movies once in a while and probably netflix and amazon prime if there is a way to stream them (not sure what hardware that is done on now).


I have an old 5.1 def tech setup with integrated 10" woofers in the tower speakers that I'd like to move up to a 7.1 some day if I can figure out how to do the wiring. It's a finished basement, so I've never actually put up the surrounds since I moved in and have used it as a 3.1 because I'm not sure how to wire the surrounds through the finished basement. Old marantz receiver that I bought when I bought the speakers.


Plan is to ceiling mount it, however I'm not sure how weight etc. goes with these type of beams in the ceiling. I think they are pretty common, but I know they are meant to hold a lot of weight on he top, but very, very little hanging from the bottom. Maybe there is a strategy to installing ceiling mounts with these type of i-beam joints?


No restrictions with the ceiling mount until about half way through the dance floor where the stripper pole installs into the ceiling.
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post #6 of 27 Old 07-28-2019, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
If you want laser your best bet in your price bracket would be a secondhand Optoma UHZ65.

Thanks for this laser option to check out too.



It seems after spending a few hours reading the the forum, that the Epson 5050UB and the Benq HT3550 are the best of the best in two different price points. Laser doesn't seem to appear anywhere in what I see.



I'm a little confused on why the more expensive one says three 1080 lcd lamps and the cheaper one says true 4k right now, but more on that later probably.
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post #7 of 27 Old 07-28-2019, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like the Optoma is about 50% higher than my stretched budget, but I suppose I could keep my eyes and ears open for a refurbished or sale etc.


It reminds me of another question maybe you can speak to...it talks about a 0.66 chip and I think in looking at the LG laser a long while back, someone said that was a newer chip and that the LG had a previous generation chip (I think the 0.66 chip was somewhat new last time I was looking). Does that very limited information mean anything to you? It's possible I'm also spewing gibberish.
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post #8 of 27 Old 07-28-2019, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porknz View Post
Thanks for this laser option to check out too.



It seems after spending a few hours reading the the forum, that the Epson 5050UB and the Benq HT3550 are the best of the best in two different price points. Laser doesn't seem to appear anywhere in what I see.



I'm a little confused on why the more expensive one says three 1080 lcd lamps and the cheaper one says true 4k right now, but more on that later probably.
The Epson and the BenQ both use the same tech in that they’re both e-shifters, the Epson shifts it’s pixels twice (2K) whilst the BenQ does it four times (4K). The term True 4K puts 8 million pixels onto the screen but this isn’t the same thing as Native which actually puts a true 8 million individual pixels on the screen.

Whilst 8 is definitely better than 4 the reality is you really only see this at closer than usual viewing distances, but what you see regardless of distance is the superior blacks and contrast of the Epson along with it’s better HDR ability. This isn’t knocking the BenQ as it’s a first rate product at its price point but if you intend to put your projector in a proper blackout room with dark walls then blacks and contrast should be your first priority.

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post #9 of 27 Old 07-28-2019, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm watching all kinds of videos and I lean toward laser every time compared to bulbs. I don't get the same vibe in the forum here. What am I missing? Also, are there other models you would recommend for laser options? The UHZ65 looks great, but I don't think I can swing that price with my wife.


Thanks.


Edit: What does it cost to replace a bulb in a projector? If I never had to do that in my laser projector, what kind of monetary trade off am I looking at in the long run?

Last edited by Porknz; 07-28-2019 at 05:24 PM.
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post #10 of 27 Old 07-28-2019, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Is the UHZ65 native 4k?
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post #11 of 27 Old 07-28-2019, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porknz View Post
Is the UHZ65 native 4k?
No it is the same as the lamp based UHD65 as it has the .66 DLP with a 2x shift and does display all 8 million pixels. Lasers are still expensive and generally cost it least $1K more then their equivalent lamp based projectors. Lamps for most projectors cost around $250 (JVC and Sony are the exception as they are $500+range) and should last at least 5000 hrs (some are rated to 15,000 but I wouldn't expect that) so it's close to a wash in cost to reach 20,000 hours the rated life of laser. One benefit to lamps is they are replaceable where laser is not so once it quits you have a door stop. Non of your high end JVC/Sony projectors use lasers until you get into the $40k range.
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post #12 of 27 Old 07-28-2019, 09:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rekbones View Post
No it is the same as the lamp based UHD65 as it has the .66 DLP with a 2x shift and does display all 8 million pixels. Lasers are still expensive and generally cost it least $1K more then their equivalent lamp based projectors. Lamps for most projectors cost around $250 (JVC and Sony are the exception as they are $500+range) and should last at least 5000 hrs (some are rated to 15,000 but I wouldn't expect that) so it's close to a wash in cost to reach 20,000 hours the rated life of laser. One benefit to lamps is they are replaceable where laser is not so once it quits you have a door stop. Non of your high end JVC/Sony projectors use lasers until you get into the $40k range.
I figured it would have to be a lot more expensive to be native 4k, but I kept reading that when I looked it up online while shopping around. Is a .47 DLP better or a .66 DLP better?


Thanks for the info on the lamps too. I thought I remembered they were pretty expensive. Dumb question, but one lamp at a time no matter how many lcd chips or anything right? Can't do anything about a laser projector once it loses a laser either huh? That's a bit scary, but the picture and brightness seem so much better...


I'll have to look through the threads for some laser projector discussions.


Thanks.
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post #13 of 27 Old 07-28-2019, 10:30 PM
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I figured it would have to be a lot more expensive to be native 4k, but I kept reading that when I looked it up online while shopping around. Is a .47 DLP better or a .66 DLP better?


Thanks for the info on the lamps too. I thought I remembered they were pretty expensive. Dumb question, but one lamp at a time no matter how many lcd chips or anything right? Can't do anything about a laser projector once it loses a laser either huh? That's a bit scary, but the picture and brightness seem so much better...


I'll have to look through the threads for some laser projector discussions.


Thanks.
.66 DLP have slightly better contrast and gaming response time than the .47 DLP chips, but there are no new projectors coming out with the .66 chip. The UHD65 and the UHZ65 both have longer throw distance and would require 16' for a 150" image.


If you are unsure how to run additional speaker cable for surround speakers, how do you plan to run both electric power and HDMI cable to a ceiling mounted projector ? Speaker cable would be relatively simple in comparison.


LCD projectors have 3 LCD panels but a single lamp. Laser and LED projectors have either two or three light sources but are not user replaceable so if one fails the entire projector is trash. If you use it every day as a TV, you could exceed 20,000 hours in five years so a replaceable lamp seems more attractive. But that assumes you will not want to replace the projector with something new in that amount of time. On the other hand it also assumes the LED/Laser lasts the 20,000 hours promised, and I don't think there is any warranty that guarantees 20,000 hours. You might not use it very many hours and find it just doesn't work one day but the warranty is past.
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post #14 of 27 Old 07-28-2019, 10:59 PM
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Have you considered a UST?


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...umens-ust.html



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post #15 of 27 Old 07-29-2019, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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.66 DLP have slightly better contrast and gaming response time than the .47 DLP chips, but there are no new projectors coming out with the .66 chip. The UHD65 and the UHZ65 both have longer throw distance and would require 16' for a 150" image.


If you are unsure how to run additional speaker cable for surround speakers, how do you plan to run both electric power and HDMI cable to a ceiling mounted projector ? Speaker cable would be relatively simple in comparison.


LCD projectors have 3 LCD panels but a single lamp. Laser and LED projectors have either two or three light sources but are not user replaceable so if one fails the entire projector is trash. If you use it every day as a TV, you could exceed 20,000 hours in five years so a replaceable lamp seems more attractive. But that assumes you will not want to replace the projector with something new in that amount of time. On the other hand it also assumes the LED/Laser lasts the 20,000 hours promised, and I don't think there is any warranty that guarantees 20,000 hours. You might not use it very many hours and find it just doesn't work one day but the warranty is past.

Every answer leaves me with more questions!!! I think you might have just talked me out of lasers though!?


I think I'd have room for 16'. It would be directly above the farthest seating. Is this generally true for lasers? I think this was true of the LG laser projector I was initially interested in too. (Information on the net is so frustrating. You are saying there is a long throw distance for the UHZ 65 and the first search I do comparing it with the 5050UB refers to it as ultra short throw. https://www.google.com/search?channe...a+uhz65&pcmp=f)


I'll have to learn the wiring. I did just run ethernet around the house for the first time, and this would be just one room. Must be easier than running cat 6a from one end of the basement to the second floor on the other side of the house.


What is the industry view on laser projectors? Are they the new thing everyone will start to go to now or are they just an option while bulbs will continue to be as popular as ever?

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post #16 of 27 Old 07-29-2019, 08:19 AM
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Every answer leaves me with more questions!!! I think you might have just talked me out of lasers though!?


I think I'd have room for 16'. It would be directly above the farthest seating. Is this generally true for lasers? I think this was true of the LG laser projector I was initially interested in too. (Information on the net is so frustrating. You are saying there is a long throw distance for the UHZ 65 and the first search I do comparing it with the 5050UB refers to it as ultra short throw. https://www.google.com/search?channe...a+uhz65&pcmp=f)


I'll have to learn the wiring. I did just run ethernet around the house for the first time, and this would be just one room. Must be easier than running cat 6a from one end of the basement to the second floor on the other side of the house.


What is the industry view on laser projectors? Are they the new thing everyone will start to go to now or are they just an option while bulbs will continue to be as popular as ever?
I think lamps will be around a while.

My first projector 16 years ago was a DLP and the advertised hours on the lamp were 3000 and the lamp was 250 bucks back then. I wasn’t too happy about that and did the math 250/3000 = .083 or roughly a dime per hour. I set a 5 gallon wine carboy by the door to the theater and made a sign saying “Projector lamp replacement fund.” It was mostly as a joke but seeing it sitting there I started tossing some change in the jar. Friends and family laughed and started tossing a little in as my movies were better than the theater in town and I didn’t charge them 8 bucks for popcorn. I kind of forgot about it filling up and it had a few inches of coins in it when the bulb popped at around 4000 hours. I counted up the change and had enough to buy a new projector.

Keep in mind many of the new projectors now have two ways to go when replacing the lamp. The higher amount, say $250 is for the bulb installed in a new lamp housing. 9 times out of 10 there is nothing wrong with the housing and if you are slightly handy it takes about 10 minutes to just do a bare bulb swap for between $60-90.

Changing a lamp is pretty simple as well and I like to keep a spare on hand. Or I used to now I have a backup projector I can swap out in a few minutes because you know the thing will always wear out right in the middle of the Super Bowl. I just keep all my old projectors working for backyard movies or when someone wants to borrow a projector.

In general regarding your thread and getting started with projection. You are getting advice based around the 3000 figure you threw out in your first post. Most here will disagree with me on this but IMO some of the RGBRGB 1080p DLPs with the dark chip 3 and the old tried and true .66 chip that you can find in the 500-700 price range are great projectors to get your feet wet with and will still blow your socks off at the viewing distances you are talking about. I have been at this for 16 years and I still have such a projector. if you look at it as buying one of these and running it for even just one lamp cycle, 4k and 4k laser will be well under control and way more affordable. Just take that recommendation with a grain of salt for what its worth.

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post #17 of 27 Old 07-29-2019, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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I think lamps will be around a while.

My first projector 16 years ago was a DLP and the advertised hours on the lamp were 3000 and the lamp was 250 bucks back then. I wasn’t too happy about that and did the math 250/3000 = .083 or roughly a dime per hour. I set a 5 gallon wine carboy by the door to the theater and made a sign saying “Projector lamp replacement fund.” It was mostly as a joke but seeing it sitting there I started tossing some change in the jar. Friends and family laughed and started tossing a little in as my movies were better than the theater in town and I didn’t charge them 8 bucks for popcorn. I kind of forgot about it filling up and it had a few inches of coins in it when the bulb popped at around 4000 hours. I counted up the change and had enough to buy a new projector.

Keep in mind many of the new projectors now have two ways to go when replacing the lamp. The higher amount, say $250 is for the bulb installed in a new lamp housing. 9 times out of 10 there is nothing wrong with the housing and if you are slightly handy it takes about 10 minutes to just do a bare bulb swap for between $60-90.

Changing a lamp is pretty simple as well and I like to keep a spare on hand. Or I used to now I have a backup projector I can swap out in a few minutes because you know the thing will always wear out right in the middle of the Super Bowl. I just keep all my old projectors working for backyard movies or when someone wants to borrow a projector.

In general regarding your thread and getting started with projection. You are getting advice based around the 3000 figure you threw out in your first post. Most here will disagree with me on this but IMO some of the RGBRGB 1080p DLPs with the dark chip 3 and the old tried and true .66 chip that you can find in the 500-700 price range are great projectors to get your feet wet with and will still blow your socks off at the viewing distances you are talking about. I have been at this for 16 years and I still have such a projector. if you look at it as buying one of these and running it for even just one lamp cycle, 4k and 4k laser will be well under control and way more affordable. Just take that recommendation with a grain of salt for what its worth.

I still have



Epson 5050UB
BenQ HT3550
Optoma UHZ65


in my open tabs.


I think the BenQ I could do for sure. The epson is a maybe with cost. The Optoma probably doesn't make sense for me, as you have stated (but I really like the look of the lasers...)


Thanks for your reasonable thoughts.
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post #18 of 27 Old 07-29-2019, 01:00 PM
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I still have



Epson 5050UB
BenQ HT3550
Optoma UHZ65


in my open tabs.


I think the BenQ I could do for sure. The epson is a maybe with cost. The Optoma probably doesn't make sense for me, as you have stated (but I really like the look of the lasers...)


Thanks for your reasonable thoughts.
If you have seen the laser in person and it has impressed you then that would be the one for you. I haven’t seen one, actually there are a lot of projectors most of us haven’t seen in person. Going by reviews I know is hard everyone is really pretty excellent anymore. So it gets down to fine details, how much you want to spend and what makes you happy. Some people want a Corvette and some are fine with a KIA to get from point A to B.

Then there is content. If most of your content will be 4k UHD/HDR BD then you want a perfect room and projector to enjoy all that the media can give.

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post #19 of 27 Old 07-29-2019, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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One localish Best Buy has the Epson displaying on the floor and they seem to have a good price right now. I'm going to go look at it. Obviously can't compare the others to it, but it should give me an idea of what I would get with the 5050UB.
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post #20 of 27 Old 07-29-2019, 03:14 PM
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I can certainly recommend the UHD50 as a good low cost 4K projector.
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post #21 of 27 Old 07-29-2019, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Missed this somehow. I would consider this. Doesn't have to be ceiling mounted, but it seems all UST projectors cost significantly more. Maybe that's not true but just my initial perception.
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post #22 of 27 Old 07-29-2019, 07:49 PM
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I haven’t seen a laser projector, but I had a high end Vivitec LED projector that just died after 6 years of operation (and the LED lamp didn’t dim since the day I bought it). People on the forums knocked the LED picture, but I loved it. Very little light spill, eye popping color, great sharpness, high contrast and even the mediocre DLP black level didn’t bother me like it would with a traditional bulb projector. The picture just seemed less diffused and more focused and I’d guess that aspect has only been improved upon with the new laser units.

Even though the Vivitec LED lamp was rated for (only) 25,000 hours, the motherboard died well before. I also loved not having the lamp dim and change calibration, never having to worry about putting hours on the lamp, or it being defective or self destructive etc. I’m also very open to the right laser PJ even with some trade-offs. I guess you either love it or you don’t but in 6 years I never heard a complaint about image quality in my HT.
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post #23 of 27 Old 08-04-2019, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Went to a Best Buy to see the 5050UB.



First thoughts...


I was pretty set on buying at Best Buy rather than online with the price being the same. I might have changed my mind. The experience was terrible. I got there and had someone in the magnolia department ask me if they could help. I explained I had been online and Best Buy had told me this particular store had the 5050UB setup for viewing (I drove by two other Best Buys to get there). This guy said they didn't have one. He looked it up online, showed me the screen and asked if that was the one. I excitedly confirmed yes that was the one. He proceeded to tell me they didn't have any of those at the store to even sell me. He looked around and no one at nearby Best Buys had that projector at the store to sell. Online only. I thanked him for the help after explaining how odd that was after talking with Best Buy online. He walked out of the department and I figured I'd look around by myself after the drive to see what they had. Turned out, the had a single projector setup and that was it...and it was the Epson 5050UB...


I had watched for a while and was a bit underwhelmed. The projector was on the left wall of the room, and there was an 85" (I think) tv in the center playing Black Panther, which was also the audio playing. The right side was another similarly sized tv playing CoCo. The projector was at about the same size, 80" or so (it was letterboxed smaller than the screen). The screen had four or five small spotlights on it, so after watching for a while, I wandered around the store and eventually found someone to come turn the lights off for me that were projecting right on the screen. The difference was amazing. Immediately, I liked the picture. There was still a lot of ambient light, but it was much better. After probably half an hour of moving around the room and watching the tv's and the projects, what I realized was that watching the tv's always felt like watching a tv. I never felt like I was watching a movie. The picture was brighter, but almost unnaturally so, and I don't think I would like watching it in a dark room at all. In watching the projector, I felt like I was watching a movie. I'm not sure how this would translate to watching tv on both. it also made me realize, I'd need to see a laser projector in person before buying one now I think. I went out later and found another person to ask if they could increase the size of the picture from the projector so that I could get an idea of what 120" or 150" would look like, but was told they had no idea how to dot that. That it was programmed to fit the size screen it was currently on. I suspect I could have crawled up on the ottoman and adjusted the screen size, but that's not really my style.



I think I left the store convinced more than ever that a projector is what I want, not a tv screen. A friend of mine constantly tries to talk me down from this, and cites the brightness difference in the screens, but while I think he has a point in the difference, I don't favor the tv in the difference, I favor the projector. Can anyone speak to that? I also always felt that no matter how big the screen was on the tv (some were 80+") I always felt like I was watching a tv screen still.
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post #24 of 27 Old 08-04-2019, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porknz View Post
I think I left the store convinced more than ever that a projector is what I want, not a tv screen. A friend of mine constantly tries to talk me down from this, and cites the brightness difference in the screens, but while I think he has a point in the difference, I don't favor the tv in the difference, I favor the projector. Can anyone speak to that? I also always felt that no matter how big the screen was on the tv (some were 80+") I always felt like I was watching a tv screen still.

The problem with TVs is that they are too bright to watch with the lights off, and with the lights on it is difficult to concentrate on the image rather than on the surroundings; there's no sense of immersion which requires, IMHO, that the image be the centre of focus and attention. The purpose of a film is to draw you into an alternate reality, where you identify with the characters and their world and this requires a detachment from your surroundings. This is why, IMHO, that screen size is so important as is the darkened theatre environment.
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post #25 of 27 Old 08-04-2019, 08:02 PM
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Front projection is reflective light and can be more natural looking where a TV is emissive light and can be harsh on the eyes. This is akin to digital CD compared to the warmer more natural sound from analog LP. The killer of front projection is uncontrolled ambient light and reflected light from surrounding surfaces.

"Smart enough to know better, to old to care" ------ Dedicated Bat Cave Home Theater, JVC RS49U/Mitsubishi HC7900DW Projector, 110" 16:9 Jamestown screen with variable power masking for CIW 2.50:1 to 16:9, Marantz 7009 with 7.1.4 Atmos with Ohm mains,3 DIY Subs (2 15" (1 ported, 1 sealed and a 12" 4th order bandpass), 1 DIY butt kicker, Custom Built HTPC, 18TB DroboFS NAS
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post #26 of 27 Old 08-13-2019, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay. Took the plunge! Epson 5050UB is on the way. So is this ceiling mount. (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01014CD0O...fewire-20&th=1) Still need to figure out how to power it.


What else do I need (waiting to see the picture on the wall to pick a screen size)?


- Need to pick out an HDMI cable. (Maybe two? One to run to a 4k media player and a second to run to a set top cable box?)
- Need to pick out an optical cable (older marantz receiver). (Maybe I don't need this? New player needs an optical cable to the receiver, hdmi goes up to the projector?)


What else am I missing?


Thanks!

Last edited by Porknz; 08-13-2019 at 10:16 PM.
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post #27 of 27 Old 08-13-2019, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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https://www.avsforum.com/best-hdmi-cables/


Found this on the home page. Excellent info. Wondering a few things (suddenly in the 'know just enough to be dangerous' level).


- Is the 18gbs important?
- I see only one that specifically says it is CL3 rated and can be used in wall. Does that mean the rest are not rated to be in a wall/ceiling?
- Thinking that most people are in the 12-15 foot range away from the wall. Figure 9 foot ceilings and I'm suddenly right at 25ft. Article says anything over that should be fiber optic. Prices seem to jump a lot from 25ft copper to 30ft fiber optic. Any opinions on the importance of fiber optic if I decide 25ft is just cutting it too close?
- 26AWG vs 28AWG? I always forget which direction is better, larger or smaller.


Thanks!
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