4k projector worth it? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 79 Old 07-29-2019, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
It's an Intel HD4600 (integrated graphics).

Many BDs and DVDs are encoded and displayed at 24p (24hz) and it's better to have 12bit 4:4:4 output at 24p (X700) than the 8bit output from my HD4600. Maximum colour and HDR quality can only be achieved at 24p or 30p because that's the current bandwidth limit for HDMI. To display at 60hz the colour quality has to be reduced but at the same colour quality 60hz is better than 30hz.

Thank you.



I recently got a cheap (kinda) dedicated video card just for video playback on my computer sense my onboard graphics won't do 4k I don't think or at least not HDR. I wanted HDR and 4k support.
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post #32 of 79 Old 07-29-2019, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ng4ever View Post
Thank you.



I recently got a cheap (kinda) dedicated video card just for video playback on my computer sense my onboard graphics won't do 4k I don't think or at least not HDR. I wanted HDR and 4k support.
See some examples of DVD and 1080p upscaling to true 4K here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post58356836
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post #33 of 79 Old 07-29-2019, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
See some examples of DVD and 1080p upscaling to true 4K here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post58356836

Thank you!
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post #34 of 79 Old 07-30-2019, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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One last question for now when I enable hdr on my computer for my projector does it stay on always ?
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post #35 of 79 Old 07-30-2019, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ng4ever View Post
One last question for now when I enable hdr on my computer for my projector does it stay on always ?
Most DLP 4k projectors will automatically detect an HDR signal, but I can't really answer the specifics of your PC's video display. I suspect it would stay in HDR mode if connected to a compatible display.
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post #36 of 79 Old 07-30-2019, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
Most DLP 4k projectors will automatically detect an HDR signal, but I can't really answer the specifics of your PC's video display. I suspect it would stay in HDR mode if connected to a compatible display.

Ok np.


I wish there was a way to do that with a PC's video display settings.
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post #37 of 79 Old 07-31-2019, 01:32 PM
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Coming from a 4K HDR DLP projector owner, the current crop in the $1-1.5K range is not an improvement over similarly priced 1080p LCD/LCOS units due to insufficient black levels and contrast. I'd be quite happy to go back to my Epson 3000 over my current BenQ TK800, even though it would mean losing ATMOS from VUDU. Some newer models like the BenQ 3550 are improving in blacks/contrast, but I can't comment directly if they've caught up with 1080p LCD/LCOS models. Unless you're getting a refurb Epson 5040, 4000, or stepping up to a 5050 or 4010, I would stick with 1080p for now. If/when eShift trickles down to the Epson 3x00, that's when I'd say it's a worthwhile upgrade in the $1-1.5K range.

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post #38 of 79 Old 08-01-2019, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post
Coming from a 4K HDR DLP projector owner, the current crop in the $1-1.5K range is not an improvement over similarly priced 1080p LCD/LCOS units due to insufficient black levels and contrast. I'd be quite happy to go back to my Epson 3000 over my current BenQ TK800, even though it would mean losing ATMOS from VUDU. Some newer models like the BenQ 3550 are improving in blacks/contrast, but I can't comment directly if they've caught up with 1080p LCD/LCOS models. Unless you're getting a refurb Epson 5040, 4000, or stepping up to a 5050 or 4010, I would stick with 1080p for now. If/when eShift trickles down to the Epson 3x00, that's when I'd say it's a worthwhile upgrade in the $1-1.5K range.
I might even include your comment to the 1080p RGBRGB DC3 DLPs as well.

I have read quite a few comments where DLP took a big step backwards with 4k in the entry level units with CR.

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post #39 of 79 Old 08-01-2019, 07:47 AM
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PLus, UHD BD's typically have Atmos/DTSX immersive audio while 1080p BD''s usually only 5.1/7.1
That's a big reason why I upgraded. I think the upgrade was worth it for my space. The clarity I see for UHD content, and also upconverted 1080p content, just looks awesome. For some, like my wife, the difference isn't as noticeable. But I see it and again in my room, I'm glad I upgraded.

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post #40 of 79 Old 08-01-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
I might even include your comment to the 1080p RGBRGB DC3 DLPs as well.

I have read quite a few comments where DLP took a big step backwards with 4k in the entry level units with CR.
You're quite possibly right... I had my Epson 3000 long enough in between that I won't try to make comparisons between the 1080p RGBRGB Vivitek I had before it and the TK800, but I honestly don't remember having a ton of complaints about black levels (especially once I ditched the spandex screen).

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Originally Posted by luv2fly3 View Post
That's a big reason why I upgraded. I think the upgrade was worth it for my space. The clarity I see for UHD content, and also upconverted 1080p content, just looks awesome. For some, like my wife, the difference isn't as noticeable. But I see it and again in my room, I'm glad I upgraded.
I definitely see the upgrade in resolution when looking for it critically on UHD content, but once I'm into the movie I don't think it's noticeable enough to make the overall viewing experience that much more enjoyable. That said, the decrease in black levels is something I often notice multiple times throughout and can be jarring enough to completely take me out of the movie I'm watching.
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post #41 of 79 Old 08-01-2019, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post
You're quite possibly right... I had my Epson 3000 long enough in between that I won't try to make comparisons between the 1080p RGBRGB Vivitek I had before it and the TK800, but I honestly don't remember having a ton of complaints about black levels (especially once I ditched the spandex screen).



I definitely see the upgrade in resolution when looking for it critically on UHD content, but once I'm into the movie I don't think it's noticeable enough to make the overall viewing experience that much more enjoyable. That said, the decrease in black levels is something I often notice multiple times throughout and can be jarring enough to completely take me out of the movie I'm watching.

When I went from DC2 720p RGBCYW running in the best mode that didn’t evoke the CYW hardly at all to a DC3 1080p RGBRGB, I was expecting to be blown away by the resolution and I wasn’t. I was blown away by the increase in black level and detail in dark shots. I attributed most of it to the DC3.

In order to do HDR or try and do HDR I think DLP gave up a lot. The BenQ is an example with the filter that provides the expanded gamut also really cuts into the brightness. That only gets talked about a little.

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post #42 of 79 Old 08-01-2019, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post
Coming from a 4K HDR DLP projector owner, the current crop in the $1-1.5K range is not an improvement over similarly priced 1080p LCD/LCOS units due to insufficient black levels and contrast. I'd be quite happy to go back to my Epson 3000 over my current BenQ TK800, even though it would mean losing ATMOS from VUDU. Some newer models like the BenQ 3550 are improving in blacks/contrast, but I can't comment directly if they've caught up with 1080p LCD/LCOS models. Unless you're getting a refurb Epson 5040, 4000, or stepping up to a 5050 or 4010, I would stick with 1080p for now. If/when eShift trickles down to the Epson 3x00, that's when I'd say it's a worthwhile upgrade in the $1-1.5K range.
The TK800 is not a stellar performer and hardly representative of all 4K DLP projectors.

Compare the TK800 to the UHD51A:


(no use of Smarteco to boost contrast and this seems a particularly poor result)



and the TK800 has a more restricted colour gamut as well.
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post #43 of 79 Old 08-27-2019, 07:18 AM
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I wondered about this also since I'm a big sports fan and most sports broadcast are still 720 or 1080.

I'm assuming if most of your viewing will be cable tv like sports viewing or older movies your best bet is a Full HD 1080P projector. Am I correct in saying this? If so, what projectors would you recommend?
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post #44 of 79 Old 08-27-2019, 07:36 AM
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I wondered about this also since I'm a big sports fan and most sports broadcast are still 720 or 1080.

I'm assuming if most of your viewing will be cable tv like sports viewing or older movies your best bet is a Full HD 1080P projector. Am I correct in saying this? If so, what projectors would you recommend?
I agree 4K is a waste of money for you sport fans as is a high contrast projector. The 3 I would recommend are the entry level BenQ 2050a, A good all around DLP projector, the cheapest but has very limited placement flexibility with very limited lens shift. The Epson 3100 LCD has loads of lens shift and very bright highly recommended for fighting ambient light. The Sony 45es will have the best picture and has excellent internal processing for cleaning up poor cable signal but is also the most expensive.

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post #45 of 79 Old 08-27-2019, 08:27 AM
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I agree 4K is a waste of money for you sport fans as is a high contrast projector. The 3 I would recommend are the entry level BenQ 2050a, A good all around DLP projector, the cheapest but has very limited placement flexibility with very limited lens shift. The Epson 3100 LCD has loads of lens shift and very bright highly recommended for fighting ambient light. The Sony 45es will have the best picture and has excellent internal processing for cleaning up poor cable signal but is also the most expensive.
Thank you for your recommendations. Very interested in the Sony 45es as most of my viewing is sports and a little gaming.

I had a question about the inputs that I noticed about a lot of the projectors I've been looking at and the Sony 45es as well. It only has 2 HDMI inputs. So when I have my cable STB connected to it and my PS4, that's 2 right there. What about connecting audio, another gaming console, fire stick..etc? How do you guys work around this? I've always been used to tv's having at least 4 HDMI inputs. Thanks
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post #46 of 79 Old 08-27-2019, 08:39 AM
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Thank you for your recommendations. Very interested in the Sony 45es as most of my viewing is sports and a little gaming.

I had a question about the inputs that I noticed about a lot of the projectors I've been looking at and the Sony 45es as well. It only has 2 HDMI inputs. So when I have my cable STB connected to it and my PS4, that's 2 right there. What about connecting audio, another gaming console, fire stick..etc? How do you guys work around this? I've always been used to tv's having at least 4 HDMI inputs. Thanks
I think most folks (myself included) use an AV Receiver to handle all the various input needs (most receivers will have like 6+ inputs) and then send them all to the projector with one hdmi cable.

Depending on what kind of speaker setup you've got you can likely get an inexpensive receiver under $300 that would work just fine for you. My first receiver was a refurbished Denon that I got for like $275 and it worked great for 5.1 sound. I eventually upgraded to something that would work for Atmos but if you don't need that capability then you won't need to spend much money.
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post #47 of 79 Old 08-27-2019, 08:41 AM
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Thank you for your recommendations. Very interested in the Sony 45es as most of my viewing is sports and a little gaming.

I had a question about the inputs that I noticed about a lot of the projectors I've been looking at and the Sony 45es as well. It only has 2 HDMI inputs. So when I have my cable STB connected to it and my PS4, that's 2 right there. What about connecting audio, another gaming console, fire stick..etc? How do you guys work around this? I've always been used to tv's having at least 4 HDMI inputs. Thanks
Since projectors should be treated as a video monitors most of us use an AVR that has multiple HDMI ports and supports High definition lossless audio. If your not supporting 4K and not interested in ATMOS/DTSX high end audio these older receivers are dirt cheap on the used market and even with cheap speakers will sound better the most TV's. The big advantage is you can start out with simple stereo and build up to 5.1/7.1 if you want at your own pace. Most of us consider audio as almost half the experience of a big screen.

EDIT: The Sony is an excellent choice but just be aware it needs good light control to look it's best and can't compete with ambient light as well as some of the others.
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post #48 of 79 Old 08-27-2019, 08:48 AM
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I wondered about this also since I'm a big sports fan and most sports broadcast are still 720 or 1080.

I'm assuming if most of your viewing will be cable tv like sports viewing or older movies your best bet is a Full HD 1080P projector. Am I correct in saying this? If so, what projectors would you recommend?
@rekbones Has given you some great advice IMO.

I would only add this and this is also my opinion. 1080p is no slouch nor is 720p when it comes to watching movies on blu-ray. There is no longer any logical reason to buy a 720p home theater projector today though as 1080p machines are down around the 500 dollar mark. Will you see benefits with a 4k projector? Sure you will. But the thing to think about is the degree. I have lots of people come over to watch sports and movies on a 110” DIY painted screen with a $499 DLP RGBRGB projector setting 8’ away in a light controlled room. Almost all these same people have 4k TVs at home 65” or larger and most are sitting 8-12’ away at home in brighter living rooms. They go nuts over my setup and I have never once heard a resolution complaint. They all say they are going home and build a FP media room and I always offer to help get them started. No one ever does it though.

Bottom line the vast majority of people don’t know what they are seeing they just know if they like it or not. No one digs deep or even asks the question like you have and they get scared off with ceiling mounting a projector and figuring out a screen and then what to do about sound. Each step of the process they get advice on the cutting edge of equipment and it seems overwhelming. It really doesn’t have to be overly expensive or complicated and the results with a couple year old technology will look amazing.
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post #49 of 79 Old 08-27-2019, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by rekbones View Post
Since projectors should be treated as a video monitors most of us use an AVR that has multiple HDMI ports and supports High definition lossless audio. If your not supporting 4K and not interested in ATMOS/DTSX high end audio these older receivers are dirt cheap on the used market and even with cheap speakers will sound better the most TV's. The big advantage is you can start out with simple stereo and build up to 5.1/7.1 if you want at your own pace. Most of us consider audio as almost half the experience of a big screen.

EDIT: The Sony is an excellent choice but just be aware it needs good light control to look it's best and can't compete with ambient light as well as some of the others.
Thank you all for your advice! I really appreciate you taking time out of your day.

I have the Marantz NR1403 https://www.cnet.com/reviews/marantz-nr1403-review/ along with the Energy 5.1 Take Classic speakers https://www.amazon.com/Energy-Classi.../dp/B001202C44
Both are kinda old (I've actually had them for years but never used...still in box) but for what I'm looking for I'm sure they'll do.
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post #50 of 79 Old 08-27-2019, 10:27 AM
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Another thing...since sports is important to me, don't get me wrong I love 4K content but I need my sports looking good. ...

Am I better off going with say the Epson 5040 which is 1080 with 4K enhancement for example or am I still better off going with the Sony 45es which is solely a 1080P projector? With the Epson I can adjust the frame interpolation setting if watching a 1080P broadcast..am I correct? If so, would the picture be on par with the Sony 45es? It would be nice to have the 4K enhancement when watching 4K content.

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post #51 of 79 Old 08-27-2019, 10:44 AM
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Thank you all for your advice! I really appreciate you taking time out of your day.

I have the Marantz NR1403 https://www.cnet.com/reviews/marantz-nr1403-review/ along with the Energy 5.1 Take Classic speakers https://www.amazon.com/Energy-Classi.../dp/B001202C44
Both are kinda old (I've actually had them for years but never used...still in box) but for what I'm looking for I'm sure they'll do.

If you do get a 4k projector you're going to want to make sure your receiver can pass through the 4k signal. Looks like that receiver is a 2013 model so that might be an issue. But like I mentioned before you can get a 4k capable receiver in the $200ish range that would work fine with your speaker setup..
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If you do get a 4k projector you're going to want to make sure your receiver can pass through the 4k signal. Looks like that receiver is a 2013 model so that might be an issue. But like I mentioned before you can get a 4k capable receiver in the $200ish range that would work fine with your speaker setup..
Good point...might as well future proof. Do you know of any cheap 4K capable receivers off the top of your head? Im not an audiophile and I'm sure it'd still sound 1,000 x's better with my speaker setup than using the projector speakers.
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post #53 of 79 Old 08-27-2019, 11:04 AM
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Good point...might as well future proof. Do you know of any cheap 4K capable receivers off the top of your head? Im not an audiophile and I'm sure it'd still sound 1,000 x's better with my speaker setup than using the projector speakers.
If you wanna stay in the $200 to $300 range for 5.1 sound I've had good luck with Denon refurbs in the past. You can check a site like accessories4less and they'll have a bunch of different receivers that would work for you at that price point. Just make sure it's HDCP 2.2 compliant and can do HDR which most receivers sold these days can. That Denon S730H seems like a real good deal since it can do Atmos in case you ever did want to add a couple height speakers in the future. Or the 1400H since it would have better room correction software if that's something you're interested in.
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post #54 of 79 Old 08-27-2019, 11:27 AM
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Good point...might as well future proof. Do you know of any cheap 4K capable receivers off the top of your head? Im not an audiophile and I'm sure it'd still sound 1,000 x's better with my speaker setup than using the projector speakers.
A lot depends on what you use for a 4K source. For example, my Sony UBP-X700 4K BD player has a variety of 4K streaming apps, along with the ability to upscale DVD and BDs to 4K, and to play 4K DBs. It also has 2 HDMI outputs including an audio only output. You would connect the projector directly to the X700 via HDMI and then connect the X700 HDMI audio out to your existing receiver. Dual HDMI outputs are common on 4K BD players.
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@rekbones They go nuts over my setup and I have never once heard a resolution complaint. They all say they are going home and build a FP media room and I always offer to help get them started. No one ever does it though.
Haha that's great! Do you live in NY? I would definitely have you come over and help give this noob a hand with wiring, speaker and receiver placement..etc. I'm doing my basement within the next year and want to get it done right while the walls are still open.
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post #56 of 79 Old 08-27-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Bklynblaze View Post
Haha that's great! Do you live in NY? I would definitely have you come over and help give this noob a hand with wiring, speaker and receiver placement..etc. I'm doing my basement within the next year and want to get it done right while the walls are still open.
Keep in mind that those viewers have likely not seen many other (if any) front projection setups. With all due respect to Bud, no one seeing something like an Epson 5050UB displaying 4K HDR is going to miss how much of an improvement it is over a budget 2K DLP with much less contrast/resolution/color. It doesn't erase the tremendous value that DLP represents, but there are very big differences moving up the food chain.


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post #57 of 79 Old 08-27-2019, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
Keep in mind that those viewers have likely not seen many other (if any) front projection setups. With all due respect to Bud, no one seeing something like an Epson 5050UB displaying 4K HDR is going to miss how much of an improvement it is over a budget 2K DLP with much less contrast. It doesn't erase the tremendous value that DLP represents, but there are very big differences moving up the food chain.
Understood. I'm sure the Epson 5050 displays 4K content much better than the Epson 5040 which is 1080P with 4K enhancement, but when it comes to watching sports which is broadcast in 1080 the Sony 45es which is a dedicated 1080P projector or even the Epson 5040 probably has a better picture when it comes to watching sports.
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post #58 of 79 Old 08-27-2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Bklynblaze View Post
Understood. I'm sure the Epson 5050 displays 4K content much better than the Epson 5040 which is 1080P with 4K enhancement, but when it comes to watching sports which is broadcast in 1080 the Sony 45es which is a dedicated 1080P projector or even the Epson 5040 probably has a better picture when it comes to watching sports.
If you're not interested in 4K the Sony HW45ES is an outstanding choice. The Epson 5050UB is an updated version of the 5040UB. Both handle 2K quite well, but for sports viewing the motion handling on the Sony is better. The Sony will also have better contrast than the 2K DLPs out there. However the DLPs will be slightly sharper and might even edge out the Sony with regards to motion too. I'd still give the Sony the nod as it will be a much better all around performer. Also no risk of DLP rainbows (though this isn't usually an issue for most).
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post #59 of 79 Old 08-27-2019, 11:52 AM
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Post 4k projector worth it?

Hello,

4k projector worth it?

I just read all the posts on this thread.

This is what I think on the question originally asked ???

It really just comes down to dollars & cents guys.
If a person has the monies then go with 4K ???????
If monies are not on hand then simply go with what the budget can easily afford.

Terry
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post #60 of 79 Old 08-27-2019, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
If you're not interested in 4K the Sony HW45ES is an outstanding choice. The Epson 5050UB is an updated version of the 5040UB. Both handle 2K quite well, but for sports viewing the motion handling on the Sony is better. The Sony will also have better contrast than the 2K DLPs out there. However the DLPs will be slightly sharper and might even edge out the Sony with regards to motion too. I'd still give the Sony the nod as it will be a much better all around performer. Also no risk of DLP rainbows (though this isn't usually an issue for most).
I am interested in 4K content but not if 1080 broadcasting is going to take a big hit. For example ...how much better is the Sony 45es at displaying 1080 content as opposed to the Epson 5050 or even the 5040?

It's not that I'm not interested in 4K...it's just that I don't want a crappy 1080 picture since most of my viewing is sports.
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