Benq tk850 (No Price Talk) - Page 18 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #511 of 533 Old 01-10-2020, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by sonu johar View Post
just out of curiosity, besides myself and sage, how many people here have already bought and are currently using the TK850?
I have not purchased the TK850, yet. Currently have an old W1070 but waiting for the review as I am undecided between the HT3550 and the potential upgrade of the TK850?

My room is very light controlled but there are times we watch sports with some lights on in the back of the room. The W1070 is watchable with the extra light but does get a little washed out. But when watching movies the room is dark.

Although, I've been toying with the idea of getting the Philips Hue Play HDMI Sync Box with four colored bulbs in my side wall lights...decisions, decisions...
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post #512 of 533 Old 01-11-2020, 02:08 PM
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Llamas might want to consider the TK800M instead of the TK850.

(TK800M > TK800)

From what little input lag tests we've seen so far, it appears the 850 gained a couple of % color accuracy, but slightly slower input lag.

Seems to me that's the main difference vs the TK800M.

BenQ product page tk800m.html says:
"achieving 96% of Rec. 709 color space. TK800M"

96% is close enough for me personally. (plus extra brightness, vs the other projectors mentioned, "may or may not" help HDR?)

Also a couple of reviews of the TK800M I've read wax poetic about its detail sharpness.

Then can afford the AVR.
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post #513 of 533 Old 01-11-2020, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballpeen View Post
Llamas might want to consider the TK800M instead of the TK850.

(TK800M > TK800)

From what little input lag tests we've seen so far, it appears the 850 gained a couple of % color accuracy, but slightly slower input lag.

Seems to me that's the main difference vs the TK800M.

BenQ product page tk800m.html says:
"achieving 96% of Rec. 709 color space. TK800M"

96% is close enough for me personally. (plus extra brightness, vs the other projectors mentioned, "may or may not" help HDR?)

Also a couple of reviews of the TK800M I've read wax poetic about its detail sharpness.

Then can afford the AVR.
The TK850 has an iris, MEMC, not sure the TK800/M it can do 120Hz in 1080p, probably better HDR tone mapper, lower throw range (if required), no ceiling light spillage, more options for Brilliant Color, 24p output.
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post #514 of 533 Old 01-12-2020, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonu johar View Post
just out of curiosity, besides myself and sage, how many people here have already bought and are currently using the TK850?
I bought the TK850 and just mounted it on Friday. Replaced a 6-yr old 1080p Optoma that had dead HDMI ports. I only have ~6 hours on the TK850 so far and am still tweaking the settings for my room and 100" screen, but am liking what I see so far.

Edit: Wow, my first post here in 13 years
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post #515 of 533 Old 01-13-2020, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyappleseed View Post
I bought the TK850 and just mounted it on Friday. Replaced a 6-yr old 1080p Optoma that had dead HDMI ports. I only have ~6 hours on the TK850 so far and am still tweaking the settings for my room and 100" screen, but am liking what I see so far.

Edit: Wow, my first post here in 13 years
I am enjoying mine as well, although I probably need help tweaking the settings. I am sure if many of you came over you would not be impressed. lol
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post #516 of 533 Old 01-13-2020, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballpeen View Post
Llamas might want to consider the TK800M instead of the TK850.

(TK800M > TK800)

From what little input lag tests we've seen so far, it appears the 850 gained a couple of % color accuracy, but slightly slower input lag.

Seems to me that's the main difference vs the TK800M.

BenQ product page tk800m.html says:
"achieving 96% of Rec. 709 color space. TK800M"

96% is close enough for me personally. (plus extra brightness, vs the other projectors mentioned, "may or may not" help HDR?)

Also a couple of reviews of the TK800M I've read wax poetic about its detail sharpness.

Then can afford the AVR. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]
The TK850 has an iris, MEMC, not sure the TK800/M it can do 120Hz in 1080p, probably better HDR tone mapper, lower throw range (if required), no ceiling light spillage, more options for Brilliant Color, 24p output.

Thanks for the info about the differences between TK800M vs TK850!

The iris feature is something I would like.

Indeed on the BenQ specs, they do not specify at what rez the 120Hz refresh is at: 🤔

"ultra 120Hz refresh rate to eliminate image blur."
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post #517 of 533 Old 01-13-2020, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballpeen View Post
Thanks for the info about the differences between TK800M vs TK850!

The iris feature is something I would like.

Indeed on the BenQ specs, they do not specify at what rez the 120Hz refresh is at: 🤔

"ultra 120Hz refresh rate to eliminate image blur."
120Hz can only be at 1920x1080, 1280x800, not 4K.

Last edited by noob00224; 01-13-2020 at 01:06 PM.
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post #518 of 533 Old 01-14-2020, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
120Hz can only be at 1920x1080, 1280x800, not 4K.
Don't you mean 1280x720p?

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post #519 of 533 Old 01-14-2020, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post
Don't you mean 1280x720p?
No, 1280x800.
When playing a video there will be black bars even if the format is 16:9 since 800 has more lines than 700.
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
No, 1280x800.
When playing a video there will be black bars even if the format is 16:9 since 800 has more lines than 700.
This projector is native 3840x2160/1920x1080. 1280x720 will scale to 1920x1080. The extra 100 lines aren't there in this projector. 1280x800 is 16:10, which this projector is not.

I see nothing in the manual that indicates that the projector will do what you are indicating it will do.

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post #521 of 533 Old 01-14-2020, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post
This projector is native 3840x2160/1920x1080. 1280x720 will scale to 1920x1080. The extra 100 lines aren't there in this projector. 1280x800 is 16:10, which this projector is not.

I see nothing in the manual that indicates that the projector will do what you are indicating it will do.
It's the same on Benq's 1080p models, 1280x800 works in 120Hz, 1280x720 does not.
Page 41 https://www.benq.com/en-us/support/d...50/manual.html

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post #522 of 533 Old 01-14-2020, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
It's the same on Benq's 1080p models, 1280x800 works in 120Hz, 1280x720 does not.
Page 41
Apples and oranges. The page you reference is the supported input computer resolutions and refresh rates. It has nothing to do with the projector taking the input and refreshing @120 Hz. The 1280x720p TV video will be displayed at 1920x1080 (upconverted).

Page 42 shows the supported TV signal resolution and refresh rates.

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post #523 of 533 Old 01-14-2020, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post
Apples and oranges. The page you reference is the supported input computer resolutions and refresh rates. It has nothing to do with the projector taking the input and refreshing @120 Hz. The 1280x720p TV video will be displayed at 1920x1080 (upconverted).

Page 42 shows the supported TV signal resolution and refresh rates.
Don't understand how supported input computer resolutions and refresh rates and projector taking the input and refreshing @120 Hz are not the same thing.

I've personally tested 1280x800 at 120Hz and it works. In 120Hz. Not sure what I'm missing here.

Those are TV formats, page 41 shows PC formats.

The projector can be selected in 1280x resolutions, but I'm not sure if a 1280x resolution file is upconverted by the projector or GPU/other deivce. Madvr OSD for instance says an 1280x file is still 1280x (with 1280x resolution set in the projector) and does not upscale it. This results in a less sharp image than an 1280x file in 1080p, madvr or not.

I'm not an expert on how DMD chips work and display upconversion works, maybe an expert can advise.
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Don't understand how supported input computer resolutions and refresh rates and projector taking the input and refreshing @120 Hz are not the same thing.
It isn't. In this particular reference, the input is already at 120 Hz. The projector, as indicted by the chart, will display it at 120 Hz. It is not the same as taking a TV video signal at 29.97 Hz and refreshing the display at 119.88 Hz (needs to be a multiple of 29.97). Based on the chart, if I am reading it correctly, is that the projector will display all computer video inputs at its native rate. There is no option, that I can find, that tells the projector to refresh the incoming video at 120 Hz.
Quote:
I've personally tested 1280x800 at 120Hz and it works. In 120Hz. Not sure what I'm missing here.
Of course it works. The projector displays the incoming video at its native refresh rate.
Quote:
Those are TV formats, page 41 shows PC formats.
That is what I wrote.
Quote:
The projector can be selected in 1280x resolutions, but I'm not sure if a 1280x resolution file is upconverted by the projector or GPU/other deivce. Madvr OSD for instance says an 1280x file is still 1280x (with 1280x resolution set in the projector) and does not upscale it. This results in a less sharp image than an 1280x file in 1080p, madvr or not.
If whatever video resolution you feed the projector fills the screen, and that input resolution is smaller than 1920x1080, then the video was upscaled in the projector. Otherwise a 1280x720, or 1280x800, will be placed in the center of the screen, with black all around it. In the case of 1280x800, it should be upscaled to 1728x1080 with pillar bars on the left and right.
Quote:
I'm not an expert on how DMD chips work and display upconversion works, maybe an expert can advise.
The DMD chips won't be doing any upscaling. There are chipsets that will handle the upscalling. It can also be done in software. A prime example of that is the VLC program that plays videos on your computer screen. It can upscale, or downscale video, totally via software.

And yes, an upscaled video won't look as sharp as a native 1080p/2160p video. A 720p source will look better than an analog video converted to 480i and then upscaled to 1080p. That said, there are damn great 480i/576i 1080p upscalers out there. A prime example of said conversion is the recently released Monty Python's Flying Circus TV series BD release. The original was 625 PAL, digitized to 576i and upconverted to 1080i.

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post #525 of 533 Old 01-15-2020, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post
It isn't. In this particular reference, the input is already at 120 Hz. The projector, as indicted by the chart, will display it at 120 Hz. It is not the same as taking a TV video signal at 29.97 Hz and refreshing the display at 119.88 Hz (needs to be a multiple of 29.97). Based on the chart, if I am reading it correctly, is that the projector will display all computer video inputs at its native rate. There is no option, that I can find, that tells the projector to refresh the incoming video at 120 Hz.

Of course it works. The projector displays the incoming video at its native refresh rate.

That is what I wrote.

If whatever video resolution you feed the projector fills the screen, and that input resolution is smaller than 1920x1080, then the video was upscaled in the projector. Otherwise a 1280x720, or 1280x800, will be placed in the center of the screen, with black all around it. In the case of 1280x800, it should be upscaled to 1728x1080 with pillar bars on the left and right.

The DMD chips won't be doing any upscaling. There are chipsets that will handle the upscalling. It can also be done in software. A prime example of that is the VLC program that plays videos on your computer screen. It can upscale, or downscale video, totally via software.

And yes, an upscaled video won't look as sharp as a native 1080p/2160p video. A 720p source will look better than an analog video converted to 480i and then upscaled to 1080p. That said, there are damn great 480i/576i 1080p upscalers out there. A prime example of said conversion is the recently released Monty Python's Flying Circus TV series BD release. The original was 625 PAL, digitized to 576i and upconverted to 1080i.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say, it's very convoluted and confusing.

My point was the projector can accept a 1280x800 signal at 120Hz, and display it at 120Hz.

You said:
Don't you mean 1280x720p?

No, 1280x800.
When playing a video there will be black bars even if the format is 16:9 since 800 has more lines than 700.

With the the 16:9 video keeping it's ratio/format, not stretched out vertically.

And
This projector is native 3840x2160/1920x1080. 1280x720 will scale to 1920x1080. The extra 100 lines aren't there in this projector. 1280x800 is 16:10, which this projector is not.

Apples and oranges. The page you reference is the supported input computer resolutions and refresh rates. It has nothing to do with the projector taking the input and refreshing @120 Hz. The 1280x720p TV video will be displayed at 1920x1080 (upconverted).



Selecting 720p from NVCP results in the entire 16:9 screen being filled.

The GPU (in this case) sends the 1280x800 120Hz to the projector which upscales it to 1920x1080 with black bars on the sides, since this is the only way 1280x800 fits into 1920x1080. The refresh rate is 120Hz.
The 120Hz scroll is smooth:




Again the language is very confusing:
It is not the same as taking a TV video signal at 29.97 Hz and refreshing the display at 119.88 Hz (needs to be a multiple of 29.97). Based on the chart, if I am reading it correctly, is that the projector will display all computer video inputs at its native rate. There is no option, that I can find, that tells the projector to refresh the incoming video at 120 Hz.

I never said tells the projector to refresh the incoming video at 120 Hz. And what does that even mean, interpolation?
If a 29.97fps video is played while the display is at 1280x800 in 120Hz, the same 29.97 frames will be repeated four times each second.
If the frame rate of the video is 23.976 then the same frames will be displayed five times.
If the video's frame rate is not a multiple of 120 it will be fitted as many times as possible, similar a 23.976fps on a 60Hz display (3:2 pulldown).
If a video game is able to run stably at 120Hz then it will be displayed in 120Hz. More and and the display won't accept, less and there will be some repeated frames.

I don't know if you have anything to object here, seems pretty straightforward.
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post #526 of 533 Old 01-16-2020, 06:25 AM
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I think we are getting way off base here. The posting by Ballpeen seems to be about the projector doing 120 Hz refresh rate with a TV video input, not about a computer video signal being input at 120 Hz.

Apples and oranges.

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post #527 of 533 Old 01-16-2020, 12:11 PM
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Sage, just curious, did you ever release your review? Even though I purchased one, still interested to read your thoughts
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post #528 of 533 Old 01-16-2020, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post
I think we are getting way off base here. The posting by Ballpeen seems to be about the projector doing 120 Hz refresh rate with a TV video input, not about a computer video signal being input at 120 Hz.

Apples and oranges.
Ballpeen didn't mention anything about a TV video input.
Indeed on the BenQ specs, they do not specify at what rez the 120Hz refresh is at: 🤔

"ultra 120Hz refresh rate to eliminate image blur."


He's inquiring about the refresh rate, the quote was from Benq's specs, not his interest in TV inputs.
He did mention something about input lag.
But I think this issue is settled.
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post #529 of 533 Old 01-16-2020, 08:58 PM
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Ya, his posting was vague. Unless the posting specifically mentions computer video input, I interpret it as meaning TV video input.

Does the 120 Hz refresh rate even work with computer video input? The manual has very little discussion on it.

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post #530 of 533 Old 01-16-2020, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post
Ya, his posting was vague. Unless the posting specifically mentions computer video input, I interpret it as meaning TV video input.

Does the 120 Hz refresh rate even work with computer video input? The manual has very little discussion on it.
Yes. The screenshot in the post above was with the Blur busters site on the projector while at 1280x800 in 120Hz running smooth.
The screenshots in the attach show the desktop resolution in the first line.

I don't have a 4K Benq, it's 1080p, but the section regarding 1280x xxx is identical. From the W2000/HT3050 manual:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1579235675

I don't believe the projector can actually do 1280x720/768 in 120Hz, because whenever these two are selected there are bars on the left and right. There are bars on top and bottom as well, however when changing from 1280x720 to 768 or 800 there is no handshake. It must be some kind of masking.

When playing a 16:9 file in MPC + madvr with the setting (in madvr) Fullscreen Exclusive the video is stretched out vertically to x800. Doesn't matter if resolution selected is 1280x720 or 768. It also does not handshake when going fullscreen.
Only if this feature is removed (FSE) does madvr play it in the correct proportions.
In madvr OSD the resolution it says it's scaling to is (with FSE on or off) with a 16:9 file:
1280x720 selected: 1280x720
1280x768 selected: 1280x744
1280x800 selected: 1280x760

The first three madvr OSD screenshots are with FSE on (third line says D3D11 exclusive (8bit)), the fourth is with FSE off (D3D11 windowed(8bit)). Windowed still is fullscreen, it's just without the FSE component activated.

These are all PC inputs, not TV.
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post #531 of 533 Old 01-17-2020, 09:11 PM
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So, I’ve been using this projector for a few weeks now. It definitely mellowed out in terms of contrast after that first 100 hours, it’s noticeably dimmer now (still plenty bright though).

One thing I’ve noticed - I’m not sure the MEMC setting actually DOES anything when not in HDR more. I think there might be a glitch of some sort. First, when I watched my first HDR movie (Mad Max) I noticed the unnaturally smooth motion I’ve mentioned always noticing with any kind of motion interpolation. It was weird, I’d never noticed it before. Going back to streaming services (Source is an Xbox One X) I really looked closely and I just don’t see any noticeable difference between MEMC being off and being set to low/middle/strong. All four look identical to me.

I’m not using any equipment to check this stuff, so I’ll admit I might just not be able to see MEMC’s effects. But another thing I’ve noticed is that I see zero difference in input delay between MEMC on/off when I’m playing Overwatch. Motion interpolation always, always makes input lag noticeable worse, doesn’t it? I usually see increases of like 200-300% when I’m reading reviews of TVs with the feature. It should be noticeable to me when MEMC makes my response time significantly worse, and I’m just not seeing it.

So, my observation at least, MEMC is not working correctly with streaming content and video games.
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post #532 of 533 Old 01-17-2020, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Yes. The screenshot in the post above was with the Blur busters site on the projector while at 1280x800 in 120Hz running smooth.
The screenshots in the attach show the desktop resolution in the first line.
Let me rephrase the question... if you supply a computer video input at a refresh less than 120, say 60, does the projector refresh its displaying of the video at 120 Hz, or only do the native input refresh rate?

Can your computer do [email protected] Hz? Why display 1280 when 1920 is available?

My plan is to only display TV show video files from the computer via VLC using HDMI. Planned display card is a GTX-1050. I'm not a gamer. No gaming consoles of any kind.

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post #533 of 533 Old 01-17-2020, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post
Let me rephrase the question... if you supply a computer video input at a refresh less than 120, say 60, does the projector refresh its displaying of the video at 120 Hz, or only do the native input refresh rate?

Can your computer do [email protected] Hz? Why display 1280 when 1920 is available?

My plan is to only display TV show video files from the computer via VLC using HDMI. Planned display card is a GTX-1050. I'm not a gamer. No gaming consoles of any kind.
My unit is 1080p and can't do 1290x1080 in 120Hz, but the HT3550, TK850, and some Optoma models can.

The projector does not automatically switch, at least not on Windows with a GPU, to a refresh rate that matches that of the video.
Some external players might do it, and maybe some internal ones.
I only know of madvr that can do that.
It has to be done manually.
If the frame rate of the source is above the set refresh rate of the display there will be lost frames, but if it's under it will try to fit them in it's current refresh rate.
For instance playing 24p videos on a display with 60Hz refresh rate is called 3:2 pulldown:

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