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post #61 of 202 Old 10-18-2019, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Quick update. I know a lot of you guys/gals are watching this space and waiting for this model to release. While I don’t have a firm date yet there has been some movement on this model and we might see a US launch sooner than anticipated. Also, I’ve just received word that review samples are being shipped out soon so there is a good chance I’ll be able to share some hands on impressions in the very near future.

Thank you to keep us update on this model
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post #62 of 202 Old 10-18-2019, 12:14 PM
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Thanks for the update sage, I am beyond excited about this model.

Even if all it is is the 800M with the tone mapping of 3550 I'll be excited.
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post #63 of 202 Old 10-18-2019, 04:20 PM
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I was within my return period of buying the tk800m and I did in hopes that the 850 would solve my blacks issue w the 800m. Other than that I was completely happy w the 800m and would buy again if the 850 isn’t a worthwhile upgrade.
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post #64 of 202 Old 10-19-2019, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by longhornsk57 View Post
Thanks for the update sage, I am beyond excited about this model.

Even if all it is is the 800M with the tone mapping of 3550 I'll be excited.
Lens 7-element 4-group lens array TK800M vs 10-Element 8-Group All Glass HT3550. except for the tone mapping I don't see how it can compare as it is 1000 lumens more than the HT3550 achieved by both using the same color wheel.
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post #65 of 202 Old 10-19-2019, 04:49 PM
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I don't think you quite understood my post..
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post #66 of 202 Old 10-20-2019, 08:46 AM
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This isn’t a direct question about the TK850, but I’m curious if the 3550 / TK850 can be used on a shelf install behind my couch. I really don’t want to mount my projector to the ceiling, as it’s only a temporary living situation. Is this possible to do or are there only certain projectors that can be placed on a shelf.
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post #67 of 202 Old 10-21-2019, 10:58 AM
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Benq tk850

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Originally Posted by bboucher790 View Post
This isn’t a direct question about the TK850, but I’m curious if the 3550 / TK850 can be used on a shelf install behind my couch. I really don’t want to mount my projector to the ceiling, as it’s only a temporary living situation. Is this possible to do or are there only certain projectors that can be placed on a shelf.


It could be mounted below the shelf— but, no, if you place either of these upright on a shelf above you you’re going to be projecting on the ceiling.

In this price range to get that kind of functionality you’d need to look at one of the Epsons. Either the 4010 (which, be careful, it’s massive) or the newly announced 3200/3800. We don’t know much about the 3200/3800 yet other than they’re based on the prior gen 3100/3700 but now include Epson’s 4K enhancement pixel shift to simulate 4K (they produce half the pixels of the DLPs so they are not in fact 4K— their image is interpolated from the 4K source and not a 1:1 map). The Epsons have generous lens shift that should make shelf placement above and behind you a non-issue.

As an alternative, I rent too but my real issue was my 9 foot ceilings which would have required a massive drop tube so I went with a wall mount instead.
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post #68 of 202 Old 10-21-2019, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
It could be mounted below the shelf— but, no, if you place either of these upright on a shelf above you you’re going to be projecting on the ceiling.

In this price range to get that kind of functionality you’d need to look at one of the Epsons. Either the 4010 (which, be careful, it’s massive) or the newly announced 3200/3800. We don’t know much about the 3200/3800 yet other than they’re based on the prior gen 3100/3700 but now include Epson’s 4K enhancement pixel shift to simulate 4K (they produce half the pixels of the DLPs so they are not in fact 4K— their image is interpolated from the 4K source and not a 1:1 map). The Epsons have generous lens shift that should make shelf placement above and behind you a non-issue.
The BenQ HT5550 should have enough lens shift to be shelf mounted upright, above the viewer.
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post #69 of 202 Old 10-21-2019, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
It could be mounted below the shelf— but, no, if you place either of these upright on a shelf above you you’re going to be projecting on the ceiling.

In this price range to get that kind of functionality you’d need to look at one of the Epsons. Either the 4010 (which, be careful, it’s massive) or the newly announced 3200/3800. We don’t know much about the 3200/3800 yet other than they’re based on the prior gen 3100/3700 but now include Epson’s 4K enhancement pixel shift to simulate 4K (they produce half the pixels of the DLPs so they are not in fact 4K— their image is interpolated from the 4K source and not a 1:1 map). The Epsons have generous lens shift that should make shelf placement above and behind you a non-issue.

As an alternative, I rent too but my real issue was my 9 foot ceilings which would have required a massive drop tube so I went with a wall mount instead.
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Got it, thanks.

Curious about the input lag on the 3800, might go with that one.

After reading a bit more into the 3800, I noticed it was 3D ready. What's the difference between 3D Ready / 3D Compatible? 3D is on my must-have list for the nieces hah.

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post #70 of 202 Old 10-21-2019, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
The BenQ HT5550 should have enough lens shift to be shelf mounted upright, above the viewer.


Good point. I was thinking in the below $2k space.

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post #71 of 202 Old 10-21-2019, 12:27 PM
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Benq tk850

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Originally Posted by bboucher790 View Post
Got it, thanks.



Curious about the input lag on the 3800, might go with that one.



After reading a bit more into the 3800, I noticed it was 3D ready. What's the difference between 3D Ready / 3D Compatible? 3D is on my must-have list for the nieces hah.


I don’t think there is one. The Epson’s can do 3D. One quick note though, while the Epsons are praised for their image brightness in 3D, Some have found crosstalk to be an issue. 3D is one area where I think DLP has a very real advantage over it’s competition. If you’re coming from an active 3D LCD flatscreen or plasma you’ll likely be fine but if you’re coming from a passive LCD flatscreen or another DLP then I’d make sure you have a good return policy.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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post #72 of 202 Old 10-21-2019, 02:09 PM
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After giving it a bit of thought, I realized the 3800 isn’t for me anyway. I really need the motion handling of DLP. I’m very susceptible to LCD motion blur.

This puts me between a rock and a hard place.
- needs to have low input lag (5500 does not)
- needs to be DLP (Epson’s aren’t)
- needs to be 4K (or faux)
- (maybe) needs to be shelf mountable

I wonder if I can find a bookshelf where I can mount the projector to the bottom side of one of the shelves...going to try to think outside the box on this one so I can get a shiny new TK850....
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post #73 of 202 Old 10-21-2019, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bboucher790 View Post
After giving it a bit of thought, I realized the 3800 isn’t for me anyway. I really need the motion handling of DLP. I’m very susceptible to LCD motion blur.



This puts me between a rock and a hard place.

- needs to have low input lag (5500 does not)

- needs to be DLP (Epson’s aren’t)

- needs to be 4K (or faux)

- (maybe) needs to be shelf mountable



I wonder if I can find a bookshelf where I can mount the projector to the bottom side of one of the shelves...going to try to think outside the box on this one so I can get a shiny new TK850....


Hmm... your requirements may have put you in a tough spot.

None of the 4K DLPs have particularly low lag but the currently available TK800M has some of the lowest lag recorded on any of the 4K DLPs. It has no lens shift, however.

Very few DLPs have significant lens shift. The Ht5550 really stands out in this regard. It’s a fantastic projector but a bit more expensive and, yeah, the lag is not great. For the record, I don’t expect the lag on the Tk850 will be any lower than the Ht5550 or it’s sibling the Ht3550. But I should have a definitive answer to this soon.

If you can mount a shelf then it shouldn’t be a big deal to simply mount the projector below the shelf. Just buy a ceiling mount and screw it into the shelf itself. Problem solved. But if lag is important the TK800M is probably your best bet in 4K. It’s either that or reconsider 4K— an HD DLP like the superb BenQ HT2050A will not only save you money but will also net you a mere 16 ms of lag (@60Hz that is essentially lag free for a fixed pixel display).
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For those with experience using the tk800 or tk800m, do you find it too bright at night? That was my experience. I'm coming from an ht1075 with 4k hours on the bulb. When I tried the tk800 last year, I thought it was great, but found it too bright at night. That was regardless of using the main visual modes you can cycle through on the remote. Am I just more sensitive on the brightness than others, or have you done custom settings to help w that situation? I didn't try custom settings in part because the delay cycling through modes was so severe. Ultimately, I decided to hold off for the next gen model.

Now I'm debating the 3550 or 850. I could really use the extra lumens during the day, but I watch more at night. I was going to hold off until the 850 came out to decide but my 1075 stopped working this past weekend, so I'm in the market sooner than I expected.
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post #75 of 202 Old 10-21-2019, 10:37 PM
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For those with experience using the tk800 or tk800m, do you find it too bright at night?
Not at all.

I mean if you're that sensitive just set it to eco at night or turn down brightness. I've got mine set at normal lamp even at night.

Screen size plays a role too. I'm on a 150" screen atm and so need all the brightness I can get.
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post #76 of 202 Old 10-22-2019, 09:32 AM
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For those with experience using the tk800 or tk800m, do you find it too bright at night? That was my experience. I'm coming from an ht1075 with 4k hours on the bulb. When I tried the tk800 last year, I thought it was great, but found it too bright at night. That was regardless of using the main visual modes you can cycle through on the remote. Am I just more sensitive on the brightness than others, or have you done custom settings to help w that situation? I didn't try custom settings in part because the delay cycling through modes was so severe. Ultimately, I decided to hold off for the next gen model.



Now I'm debating the 3550 or 850. I could really use the extra lumens during the day, but I watch more at night. I was going to hold off until the 850 came out to decide but my 1075 stopped working this past weekend, so I'm in the market sooner than I expected.


My review thread is buried now but that was actually one of the few complaints I levied at the original TK800– that there was no good way to lower lumens. What I mean by that is there are settings adjustments you could use to reduce brightness but in every case I found this would also impact image quality. For example: turning off brilliant color significantly reduced perceived brightness but also had a negative impact on color quality. Moving the lamp to eco from smarteco would cut lumens but had a detrimental effect on contrast. Ultimately, when watching in a dark room I opted to use a spot light projected onto my front wall as sort of a back light / bias light. That made it more comfortable to watch at night.

For this reason I had a hard time recommending the TK800 as a solution for a home cinema. This is definitely a model intended to be used in less than ideal rooms under less than ideal circumstances— or used with a really massive screen! It’s then stablemate, the HT2550, was much more appropriate for a dim to dark room and had enough output to work with some ambient light. I found the Ht2550 to be the more flexible of the two. But if you are hosting game day parties or simply want a projector as a replacement for a living room TV then the TK800/TK800M is a compelling choice. It’s inexpensive, tack sharp and ridiculously bright for a compact projector.

We’ll have to see how the TK850 performs.
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post #77 of 202 Old 10-22-2019, 02:28 PM
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Hmm... your requirements may have put you in a tough spot.

None of the 4K DLPs have particularly low lag but the currently available TK800M has some of the lowest lag recorded on any of the 4K DLPs. It has no lens shift, however.

Very few DLPs have significant lens shift. The Ht5550 really stands out in this regard. It’s a fantastic projector but a bit more expensive and, yeah, the lag is not great. For the record, I don’t expect the lag on the Tk850 will be any lower than the Ht5550 or it’s sibling the Ht3550. But I should have a definitive answer to this soon.

If you can mount a shelf then it shouldn’t be a big deal to simply mount the projector below the shelf. Just buy a ceiling mount and screw it into the shelf itself. Problem solved. But if lag is important the TK800M is probably your best bet in 4K. It’s either that or reconsider 4K— an HD DLP like the superb BenQ HT2050A will not only save you money but will also net you a mere 16 ms of lag (@60Hz that is essentially lag free for a fixed pixel display).
So I decided on the Epson 2100-W at Walmart for an insane $550. I really wanted to test the motion of a 3LCD in person. At this price, it simply could not be beat. I also have a full 90 days to return. If this fails and I'm not satisfied, I'll spend a few hundred dollars more and get the 2150.

Obviously it's not 4K, but I think this should do fine for the next year in my temporary house. When I move into my permanent house, I will use this as a bedroom TV and get the best 4K projector for my needs at the time. I'm really hoping there's a good ultra short throw laser projector that comes out in the next year that is good for gaming....then I really think my decision with the 2100 will be worthwhile. I had a small love affair with the TK800M / 850, but I think it's smarter to get a flexible bedroom projector this year and wait for my "ultimate" setup next year.

Thanks for your input! I value your advice because you look beyond the normal stuff I read about and focus on every aspect of a technology (the same way I do).
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post #78 of 202 Old 10-22-2019, 03:06 PM
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So I decided on the Epson 2100-W at Walmart for an insane $550. I really wanted to test the motion of a 3LCD in person. At this price, it simply could not be beat. I also have a full 90 days to return. If this fails and I'm not satisfied, I'll spend a few hundred dollars more and get the 2150.



Obviously it's not 4K, but I think this should do fine for the next year in my temporary house. When I move into my permanent house, I will use this as a bedroom TV and get the best 4K projector for my needs at the time. I'm really hoping there's a good ultra short throw laser projector that comes out in the next year that is good for gaming....then I really think my decision with the 2100 will be worthwhile. I had a small love affair with the TK800M / 850, but I think it's smarter to get a flexible bedroom projector this year and wait for my "ultimate" setup next year.



Thanks for your input! I value your advice because you look beyond the normal stuff I read about and focus on every aspect of a technology (the same way I do).

Nothing wrong with waiting!

Just to be sure, the 2100 you got does not have sufficient lens shift to place on a shelf behind your couch. It will need to be mounted similarly to the DLPs. It’s solid deal but that price isn’t exceptional for that specific model. If you find the motion handling to be poor than I’d consider stepping up to the BenQ HT2050A. It will be sharper, have better motion handling, arguably better contrast, slightly lower input lag and about the same lens shift— although the BenQ has a shorter throw I believe.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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post #79 of 202 Old 10-22-2019, 07:45 PM
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Great, setting it up tomorrow. I’ll let you know how it turns out.

I also wanted something I could return without issue. Best Buy has a 15% restocking fee. Walmart, as far as I’m aware, doesn’t and the 2100 is literally the only projector available for pickup.
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post #80 of 202 Old 10-23-2019, 08:25 AM
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Sooooo, with Walmart’s great return policy I decided to pony up and get the 2050a as well. I’ll have a side by side duke out and return the loser. I think, even though this isn’t going to be my main projector, motion handling may be bothersome to me in the long haul. I’d rather have something I fully endorse, or my OCD will kick in (I hate being a videophile sometimes!)
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I was within my return period of buying the tk800m and I did in hopes that the 850 would solve my blacks issue w the 800m. Other than that I was completely happy w the 800m and would buy again if the 850 isn’️t a worthwhile upgrade.
What kind of black issues are you having with 800m. I have the 800m too and i have to say HDR in dark scenes is pretty bad. Bright and colorful scenes look awesome though. Did you do any tweaking with the HDR settings?
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post #82 of 202 Old 10-25-2019, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Sayzahr View Post
I was within my return period of buying the tk800m and I did in hopes that the 850 would solve my blacks issue w the 800m. Other than that I was completely happy w the 800m and would buy again if the 850 isn’️t a worthwhile upgrade.
What kind of black issues are you having with 800m. I have the 800m too and i have to say HDR in dark scenes is pretty bad. Bright and colorful scenes look awesome though. Did you do any tweaking with the HDR settings?

I was just unhappy w the levels my room is pretty dark and I felt the black levels looked a little washed out and dull. This is for all modes of viewing including HDR. I did do some minor tweaking but not extensively. Like I said if the 850 does not address this issue for me I will def go back to the 800m as I felt it was an amazing projector otherwise. I wish it came w a lens cover though lol.
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I was just unhappy w the levels my room is pretty dark and I felt the black levels looked a little washed out and dull. This is for all modes of viewing including HDR. I did do some minor tweaking but not extensively. Like I said if the 850 does not address this issue for me I will def go back to the 800m as I felt it was an amazing projector otherwise. I wish it came w a lens cover though lol.
True, same here. Interestingly, benq sent me a refurbished HT3550( very light used , only 60 hours ) and said i could do an even exchange. The blacks were definitely better in the HT3550 but having watched the TK800m for some time, the HT does not seem bright at all. I had to send the TH3550 back. To bad, they bumped up the prices ( probably due to the tariffs ), i'm guessing the Tk850 will start at 1699 ( the same as HT3550 ).
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True, same here. Interestingly, benq sent me a refurbished HT3550( very light used , only 60 hours ) and said i could do an even exchange. The blacks were definitely better in the HT3550 but having watched the TK800m for some time, the HT does not seem bright at all. I had to send the TH3550 back. To bad, they bumped up the prices ( probably due to the tariffs ), i'm guessing the Tk850 will start at 1699 ( the same as HT3550 ).
This is the ultimate dilemma. I am leaning towards brightness being more important to me...Still sitting here checking this thread daily...
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post #85 of 202 Old 10-30-2019, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
My review thread is buried now but that was actually one of the few complaints I levied at the original TK800– that there was no good way to lower lumens. What I mean by that is there are settings adjustments you could use to reduce brightness but in every case I found this would also impact image quality. For example: turning off brilliant color significantly reduced perceived brightness but also had a negative impact on color quality. Moving the lamp to eco from smarteco would cut lumens but had a detrimental effect on contrast. Ultimately, when watching in a dark room I opted to use a spot light projected onto my front wall as sort of a back light / bias light. That made it more comfortable to watch at night.

For this reason I had a hard time recommending the TK800 as a solution for a home cinema. This is definitely a model intended to be used in less than ideal rooms under less than ideal circumstances— or used with a really massive screen! It’s then stablemate, the HT2550, was much more appropriate for a dim to dark room and had enough output to work with some ambient light. I found the Ht2550 to be the more flexible of the two. But if you are hosting game day parties or simply want a projector as a replacement for a living room TV then the TK800/TK800M is a compelling choice. It’s inexpensive, tack sharp and ridiculously bright for a compact projector.

We’ll have to see how the TK850 performs.


I am planning for a 150 inch screen, will the above mentioned brightness issue be prevalent at that screen size? Also if not TK800/TK850, then will the HT5550 work well for a 150 inch screen?


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post #86 of 202 Old 10-30-2019, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ashish shrestha View Post
True, same here. Interestingly, benq sent me a refurbished HT3550( very light used , only 60 hours ) and said i could do an even exchange. The blacks were definitely better in the HT3550 but having watched the TK800m for some time, the HT does not seem bright at all. I had to send the TH3550 back. To bad, they bumped up the prices ( probably due to the tariffs ), i'm guessing the Tk850 will start at 1699 ( the same as HT3550 ).


How big was your screen? I have a 150 inch screen with a dedicated dark room. Any suggestions between HT35550/HT5550/TK800M. I’ve been waiting for TK850 in the meanwhile.


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post #87 of 202 Old 10-30-2019, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sj233 View Post
How big was your screen? I have a 150 inch screen with a dedicated dark room. Any suggestions between HT35550/HT5550/TK800M. I’ve been waiting for TK850 in the meanwhile.


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If you have a dedicated dark room that will enable you to have a projector with good blacks. The HT3550/5550 have RGBRGB color wheels, but they might not bright enough. The TK800M has a RGBW color wheel with worse color performance.

Use this website for the 5550 or other models. Note that the estimated brightness is in the highest lumen output.
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Ben...ulator-pro.htm

Are the projectors are bright enough for an 150"?

Take the dimensions of the screen.
http://screen-size.info/
https://www.draperinc.com/projection...alculator.aspx

Find out the square footage:
https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calcu...calculator.php

Find a review which has measured the lumens for each mode and lamp mode.

Apply the effect of the zoom lens has on brightness. Noted in the reviews.

Apply screen gain.

Divide lumens by square footage.
Lamps loose about 25% of their brightness in the first 500h, then it's a linear loss to the lamps rated hour value, which is 50% of it's original value.


A 150" screen 16:9 format has 66.71 ft².

Lumen measurements:
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Ben...,-Measurements
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Ben...,-Measurements

The lumen values in the reviews are with the widest lens position, so most zoom. The percentage of lumens loss resulted from zooming out is noted in the reviews.

The 3550 in Cinema mode on Eco lamp has 599 lumens.
599/66.71 is 8.9fL.
In Cinema mode with Normal lamp it's 785 lumens. That results in 11.7fL.

The general recommendation is 15fL for SDR and 30+fL for HDR.

The 5550 is a bit brighter. Cinema in Normal lamp is 899 lumens and 612 in Eco lamp mode. That is 13.42fL and 9.17fL respectively.

Vivid has Brilliant Color activated (I think), which has a negative impact (in some (rare) cases it's positive) on picture quality.
The 3550 in Vivid on Normal lamp has 708 lumens. That's 10.61fL.
The 3550 in Vivid on Normal lamp has 1226 lumens. 18.37fL.

And remember the zoom lens has an effect on brightness and the lamp dims with time.

No TK800M review, but there is one for the TK800:
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Ben...iew-update.htm

Cinema mode on Normal lamp is 1792 lumens and 1147 lumens in ECO. That is 26.86fL and 17.19fL.
Vivid has the same values since on this unit BC is turned on in Cinema mode as well, and it seems to have a positive impact.
Without BC the lumens are are reduced by 55%. So Cinema in Normal lamp is 985.6 lumens and Eco is 630.85. That's 14.77fL and 9.45fL.

The TK850 is probably going to have similar lumens as the TK800.

For such a large screen the Epson HC4010 or 5050UB are alternatives. The HC4010 has a 10GB HDMI chip, so no 4K 60Hz HDR, 24Hz at the most. So no 4K HDR gaming. They have other features, like motorized zoom. The 5050UB is the best (new) model when it comes to black level/contrast under 3K$. The HC4010 has less contrast than the 5050UB.
They do have a lower pixel count of ~4m as opposed to ~8m on the Benq's, so will be less sharp. If the difference is visible depends on the screen size, seating distance, material used. I assume with a screen that big, unless the seating position is far away, there will be a difference in sharpness. Contrast increases perceived sharpness (on the 5050UB), but the Benq's are considered more sharp.

https://www.projectorcentral.com/eps...nd-Performance
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Eps...,-Measurements

They are brighter. The 5050UB is a little brighter than the HC4010.

The HC4010 in Cinema mode with High lamp mode has 904 lumens, and 588 lumens in ECO.
That's 13.55fL and 8.8fL.
There are brighter modes which are perfectly serviceable.
Bright Cinema has 1704 in High lamp and 1108 in ECO.
That's 25.54fL and 16.6fL.

The 5050UB also has a manual iris which can be used to curtail the light output if it's too high.

Last edited by noob00224; 10-30-2019 at 04:31 AM.
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post #88 of 202 Old 10-30-2019, 07:25 AM
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Benq tk850

Quote:
Originally Posted by sj233 View Post
I am planning for a 150 inch screen, will the above mentioned brightness issue be prevalent at that screen size? Also if not TK800/TK850, then will the HT5550 work well for a 150 inch screen?


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Looks like you got some great responses to this already. But I will say: my first time seeing the Ht5550 it was on a 170” screen in a light controlled theater. I wouldn’t advise that large of a screen but the Ht5550 seemed to manage it— at least with a new bulb! But, yes I would go for the brightest model that fits within your budget when pushing that large a screen.

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Quick update: production on the Tk850 is planned to begin early next month. Expect the unit to be available for sale before the end of the year here in the states. It will be available exclusively on BenQ’s website initially and will then see a wider release in 2020. I’ll keep you all posted as more details emerge.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Quick update: production on the Tk850 is planned to begin early next month. Expect the unit to be available for sale before the end of the year here in the states. It will be available exclusively on BenQ’s website initially and will then see a wider release in 2020. I’ll keep you all posted as more details emerge.
Thanks! This is great information and exactly why I have been checking this forum every day for a month. I've been waffling between holding out for this projector (to replace a flickering Viewsonic), or picking up a BenQ th683. Since we are in Germany right now there's a good chance the 850 won't be available for many more months. Don't want to wait that long.

Annnnnd... the th683 is now out of stock. <sigh>

Amazon is supposed to get more in mid November. Guess I'll have to wait a bit.
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