Epson HC 3200 and 3800 revealed - Page 17 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #481 of 591 Old 12-30-2019, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by madermat View Post
I thought the left image was dlp 4k? so showing the difference of 4mil pixels to 8 mil? not sure
1080p has ~2m pixels, 4K on the HC3200/3800 and other Epsons have ~4m.

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Originally Posted by zeitgespenst View Post
Both projectors show also a questionable e-shifting function (as mentioned before). In terms of 4K resolution gain, I would not call them "4K" projectors, because my expected visual effect of fine, sharp images can only be achieved with artificial image enhancers (e. g. super resolution). Its my point of view after direct comparison with my FHD projector or 4K DLP shifting simulation projectors. On the right side the e-shifted FHD picture is shown.
Attachment 2661074

Without calibration, the usage of factory presets and the current prices I would say, that the 3200/7000 projector in my room has a better price/performance ratio than my 3800/7100 ...

The source would make a difference.

1080p on the 4K Epson would make a difference, but a 4K would make even more. Especially if the movie was shot in 4K.
Try one of these Real4K and see what it looks like then:
https://4kmedia.org/real-or-fake-4k/
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post #482 of 591 Old 12-31-2019, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by zeitgespenst View Post
I currently have the two projectors 3800/7100 and 3200/7000 in a direct comparison in my living room (with some white walls and ceiling), as before also my 3700/6700 with the 3800/7100.
My comparison was made with identical factory settings in both projectors (except individual brightness and contrast parameter adjustments). Auto Iris = off. No picture enhancers used (parameters =0)
Attachment 2661058
Please be careful: Pictures should only a good trend/tendency and should not substitute any live views or measurements. So I have added some measured datas.


The following photos always show the 3200/7000 on the left and the 3800/7100 on the right.


Black screen 0IRE (black), on /off (black white) contrast is at least 2 times higher with the 3800/7100 (appr. 475:1 vs 1.200:1), used equipment HCFR, Spyder4.
Attachment 2661060

But with more bright content in the pictures the Ansi contrast performance gets more and more simular. Also the black level is appr. equal (also in live view).
Attachment 2661062
Attachment 2661064
Attachment 2661068

Unfortunately both projectors have a color accuracy to improve and show only a small, unbalanced DCI P3 extension.
I currently have no idea whether these measured differences in color/grayscale are caused by manufacturing tolerances.

Factory preset comparison BT709/Natural, Eco lamp modus

Attachment 2661070
Attachment 2661066

Factory preset comparison BT2020/Natural, Eco lmp modus (I have afterwards used BT2020 for calibation to Rec709 standard)
Attachment 2661072

Both projectors show also a questionable e-shifting function (as mentioned before). In terms of 4K resolution gain, I would not call them "4K" projectors, because my expected visual effect of fine, sharp images can only be achieved with artificial image enhancers (e. g. super resolution). Its my point of view after direct comparison with my FHD projector or 4K DLP shifting simulation projectors. On the right side the e-shifted FHD picture is shown.
Attachment 2661074

Without calibration, the usage of factory presets and the current prices I would say, that the 3200/7000 projector in my room has a better price/performance ratio than my 3800/7100 ...

Thanks, really appreciate this!
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post #483 of 591 Old 12-31-2019, 07:16 AM
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I need opinions. I live in a small house, 900 sq ft, but I run four projectors in three different rooms. I'm 70 years old and have earned the right to be eccentric. My vision is 20/20 with no cataracts, no macular degeneration, no diabetes, and my goal is to go to my grave watching movies and playing video games. Presently I have an Optoma UHD51alv, a Benq HT3550, a Benq HT3050, and a Benq HT2150 which is my primary gaming project, and is portable room to room. The other projectors are installed at a lens to screen distance that give a neutral zoom or mid zoom setting that should provide the sharpest image.

Here is my problem. The Optoma UHD51 has died. I need a projector to replace it. The projector needs to project to a 100 inch diagonal screen at no more than 10 ft 6 inches and no less than 9 ft and I would prefer it be 4k and 3d capable . I would buy another Benq Ht3550 but Benq has for whatever reason raised its price $200.

Enter the Epson HC3200/HC3800. Epson, for whatever reason, has dropped the price on the HC3800, $200. At 10 ft, six inches the Epson's throw puts the lens heavily to the wide side of the zoom, which may degrade the sharpness of an already soft focus. Another problem with the Epson is its brightness. The room is totally dark with light, pinkish walls (not my fault) and a white ceiling. The brightness problem can be addressed but the throw problem can't. I have no way of viewing the Epson's image before buying. I need a rough estimate of how sharp the Epson's focus is at a wide zoom (75%) setting. To make matters worse the Optoma had the sharpest image of all the projectors I've owned. I've always wanted to own an Epson, but never found one that would fit my needs. Your opinions will be greatly appreciated. I'm also open to suggestions to other projectors that may fit my throw specs, but I've done my homework and haven't found a one. These boards are the best I've found. thanks.
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post #484 of 591 Old 12-31-2019, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by bjones8103 View Post
I need opinions. I live in a small house, 900 sq ft, but I run four projectors in three different rooms. I'm 70 years old and have earned the right to be eccentric. My vision is 20/20 with no cataracts, no macular degeneration, no diabetes, and my goal is to go to my grave watching movies and playing video games. Presently I have an Optoma UHD51alv, a Benq HT3550, a Benq HT3050, and a Benq HT2150 which is my primary gaming project, and is portable room to room. The other projectors are installed at a lens to screen distance that give a neutral zoom or mid zoom setting that should provide the sharpest image.

Here is my problem. The Optoma UHD51 has died. I need a projector to replace it. The projector needs to project to a 100 inch diagonal screen at no more than 10 ft 6 inches and no less than 9 ft and I would prefer it be 4k and 3d capable . I would buy another Benq Ht3550 but Benq has for whatever reason raised its price $200.

Enter the Epson HC3200/HC3800. Epson, for whatever reason, has dropped the price on the HC3800, $200. At 10 ft, six inches the Epson's throw puts the lens heavily to the wide side of the zoom, which may degrade the sharpness of an already soft focus. Another problem with the Epson is its brightness. The room is totally dark with light, pinkish walls (not my fault) and a white ceiling. The brightness problem can be addressed but the throw problem can't. I have no way of viewing the Epson's image before buying. I need a rough estimate of how sharp the Epson's focus is at a wide zoom (75%) setting. To make matters worse the Optoma had the sharpest image of all the projectors I've owned. I've always wanted to own an Epson, but never found one that would fit my needs. Your opinions will be greatly appreciated. I'm also open to suggestions to other projectors that may fit my throw specs, but I've done my homework and haven't found a one. These boards are the best I've found. thanks.
From online testimonies the Epson HC3xxx will be less sharp.
DLP is also the best at 3D. 3LCD on the Epsons is susceptible to ghosting.
For gaming a native 4K projector will bring a noticeable upgrade, but native 4K projectors start at around twice the price of a HT3550.

Sharpness is also affected by the quality of lens and the source. Shot in 4K/games in 4K>Shot in 2K (4K signal)>1080p source upscaled to 4K by projector/other component.

If you want more sharpness, get a UHD60/65.

Another component that will increase perceived sharpness is contrast. Seeing that you already have a few projectors with poor/mediocre contrast, why not get one with good/excellent contrast and black levels?

There are options in this price range, better with more (of course), but the room must be treated for reflections.
Wall reflections will affect the contrast considerably. On a very dark scene less so, but as images get brighter the cross reflects will have a greater and greater impact.
Example:
https://www.facebook.com/projectiond...2721894385217/

Room treatment can be done with black paint, but for projectors with great black levels, black velvet is required. Not the entire room, just the area closest to the screen, around 5ft or more. The white ceiling would have to be painted though, and preferably so the pink walls.

Thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...image-235.html

This example has the screen in an enclosure, so light form the non treated part of the room has more difficulty getting there:



Or get another UHD51. They are said to be amongst the sharpest 4K devices.


LE:
Alternatively, for fast paced gaming a projector with lower lag could be another option. There are models that can do 1080p in 120Hz at 8.3ms lag.
The Benq HT2150ST has 16ms.

Last edited by noob00224; 12-31-2019 at 08:39 AM.
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post #485 of 591 Old 12-31-2019, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
From online testimonies the Epson HC3xxx will be less sharp.
DLP is also the best at 3D. 3LCD on the Epsons is susceptible to ghosting.
For gaming a native 4K projector will bring a noticeable upgrade, but native 4K projectors start at around twice the price of a HT3550.

Sharpness is also affected by the quality of lens and the source. Shot in 4K/games in 4K>Shot in 2K (4K signal)>1080p source upscaled to 4K by projector/other component.

If you want more sharpness, get a UHD60/65.

Another component that will increase perceived sharpness is contrast. Seeing that you already have a few projectors with poor/mediocre contrast, why not get one with good/excellent contrast and black levels?

There are options in this price range, better with more (of course), but the room must be treated for reflections.
Wall reflections will affect the contrast considerably. On a very dark scene less so, but as images get brighter the cross reflects will have a greater and greater impact.
Example:
https://www.facebook.com/projectiond...2721894385217/

Room treatment can be done with black paint, but for projectors with great black levels, black velvet is required. Not the entire room, just the area closest to the screen, around 5ft or more. The white ceiling would have to be painted though, and preferably so the pink walls.

Thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...image-235.html

This example has the screen in an enclosure, so light form the non treated part of the room has more difficulty getting there:



Or get another UHD51. They are said to be amongst the sharpest 4K devices.


LE:
Alternatively, for fast paced gaming a projector with lower lag could be another option. There are models that can do 1080p in 120Hz at 8.3ms lag.
The Benq HT2150ST has 16ms.
Thanks for the reply noob00224

Your points on contrast are well taken and I do like the black sliding curtains. I plan on painting the ceilings but this small house was professionally remodeled by the previous owner and I can't match the craftsmanship put into it. However creating a black curtain "box" is doable. The throw ratios on the UHD 60/65 leave me with the same problem as the throw on the Epson. I would be projecting with the lens at full wide. Nether of those projectors are 3d. The Optoma UHD51 was the perfect projector for my requirements, however, it died at 400 hrs and just out of warranty which leaves me hesitant of purchasing another one. I am very open to purchasing a better (more expensive) projector but I can't find one with the specs I require, particularly throw ratio. It seems USTs are my only other option. As far as gaming goes, the HT2150ST outruns my reaction time. The problem I have with it is setting it up every time I use it, although it really doesn't take long. With the other projectors I have, the input lag is just too great. Thanks for the suggestions and I'll start drawing up the curtains today. Easy to do in a small house with small rooms.
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post #486 of 591 Old 12-31-2019, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by bjones8103 View Post
Thanks for the reply noob00224

Your points on contrast are well taken and I do like the black sliding curtains. I plan on painting the ceilings but this small house was professionally remodeled by the previous owner and I can't match the craftsmanship put into it. However creating a black curtain "box" is doable. The throw ratios on the UHD 60/65 leave me with the same problem as the throw on the Epson. I would be projecting with the lens at full wide. Nether of those projectors are 3d. The Optoma UHD51 was the perfect projector for my requirements, however, it died at 400 hrs and just out of warranty which leaves me hesitant of purchasing another one. I am very open to purchasing a better (more expensive) projector but I can't find one with the specs I require, particularly throw ratio. It seems USTs are my only other option. As far as gaming goes, the HT2150ST outruns my reaction time. The problem I have with it is setting it up every time I use it, although it really doesn't take long. With the other projectors I have, the input lag is just too great. Thanks for the suggestions and I'll start drawing up the curtains today. Easy to do in a small house with small rooms.
Here is an example for the curtain setup:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post55371802

What do you mean the HT2150ST outruns your reaction time? It's fast enough or would you like a faster unit?
Regarding being setup there are no projectors with auto zoom to the right size. There are though with zoom memory.

A sharper unit would be the Viewsonic PX727 4K. It does need 10'8" for an 100" screen. With 100% zoom. There may be refurbished units of this model.
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Vie...ulator-pro.htm

If you're going to use some sort of curtain setup to improve contrast a JVC would fit the bill. I'm not too familiar with the particular models, from online comments they have some of the sharpest lenses, and of course the best blacks which will contribute to sharpness perception.
A native 4K JVC, the NX5, can be found around the same price as the 5050UB if purchased as B stock. It also have one of the better tone mapping software on projectors.
The JVC's have low 30's ms lag. @coderguy and some of the others can provide more info.
You could also make a separate thread for more visibility.
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post #487 of 591 Old 12-31-2019, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Here is an example for the curtain setup:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post55371802

What do you mean the HT2150ST outruns your reaction time? It's fast enough or would you like a faster unit?
Regarding being setup there are no projectors with auto zoom to the right size. There are though with zoom memory.

A sharper unit would be the Viewsonic PX727 4K. It does need 10'8" for an 100" screen. With 100% zoom. There may be refurbished units of this model.
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Vie...ulator-pro.htm

If you're going to use some sort of curtain setup to improve contrast a JVC would fit the bill. I'm not too familiar with the particular models, from online comments they have some of the sharpest lenses, and of course the best blacks which will contribute to sharpness perception.
A native 4K JVC, the NX5, can be found around the same price as the 5050UB if purchased as B stock. It also have one of the better tone mapping software on projectors.
The JVC's have low 30's ms lag. @coderguy and some of the others can provide more info.
You could also make a separate thread for more visibility.
I'm not an exceptionally fast gamer and the HT2150ST is fast enough for me. I have to set it up and manually realign it to the screen every time I game but that's not a big job. I would love to game in 4k, and I think the HC3800 has a
30ish ms lag, if I choose to go that way.

My problem with throw distance is I only have 139" from wall to screen and if you assume 13" for the projector I only have 126" from lens to screen or 10'6". I've also been told by salesmen that you lose lens clarity as you approach 100% zoom which will result in a softer focus and a slightly brighter image. Correct me if this is wrong. This limits me to a shorter throw projector such as the Benq HT3550 or the Optoma UHD51A. I would love to buy a B stock NX5 but that projector, as well as the Epson HC5050ub is almost 20" deep putting me at a 100% wide zoom on their lens. These guys are huge projectors and would be difficult to mount as a table or ceiling mount in that particular room.

The JVCs and the Epson HCs all seem to have similar throw ratios, but I will look through the JVCs again to see what I can come up with. Your right about breaking this thread up, there's not enough HC3800 stuff to justify it. Thanks again; you have been helpful.
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post #488 of 591 Old 12-31-2019, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bjones8103 View Post
I'm not an exceptionally fast gamer and the HT2150ST is fast enough for me. I have to set it up and manually realign it to the screen every time I game but that's not a big job. I would love to game in 4k, and I think the HC3800 has a
30ish ms lag, if I choose to go that way.

My problem with throw distance is I only have 139" from wall to screen and if you assume 13" for the projector I only have 126" from lens to screen or 10'6". I've also been told by salesmen that you lose lens clarity as you approach 100% zoom which will result in a softer focus and a slightly brighter image. Correct me if this is wrong. This limits me to a shorter throw projector such as the Benq HT3550 or the Optoma UHD51A. I would love to buy a B stock NX5 but that projector, as well as the Epson HC5050ub is almost 20" deep putting me at a 100% wide zoom on their lens. These guys are huge projectors and would be difficult to mount as a table or ceiling mount in that particular room.

The JVCs and the Epson HCs all seem to have similar throw ratios, but I will look through the JVCs again to see what I can come up with. Your right about breaking this thread up, there's not enough HC3800 stuff to justify it. Thanks again; you have been helpful.
The 5050UB will be less sharp than the JVC, and the benefits from the JVC would be a nice compromise over whatever loss if sharpness.

More zoom=less sharp and more bright.

Maybe switch them around and keep the JVC/other in a fixed position.
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post #489 of 591 Old 12-31-2019, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjones8103 View Post
I'm not an exceptionally fast gamer and the HT2150ST is fast enough for me. I have to set it up and manually realign it to the screen every time I game but that's not a big job. I would love to game in 4k, and I think the HC3800 has a
30ish ms lag, if I choose to go that way.

My problem with throw distance is I only have 139" from wall to screen and if you assume 13" for the projector I only have 126" from lens to screen or 10'6". I've also been told by salesmen that you lose lens clarity as you approach 100% zoom which will result in a softer focus and a slightly brighter image. Correct me if this is wrong. This limits me to a shorter throw projector such as the Benq HT3550 or the Optoma UHD51A. I would love to buy a B stock NX5 but that projector, as well as the Epson HC5050ub is almost 20" deep putting me at a 100% wide zoom on their lens. These guys are huge projectors and would be difficult to mount as a table or ceiling mount in that particular room.

The JVCs and the Epson HCs all seem to have similar throw ratios, but I will look through the JVCs again to see what I can come up with. Your right about breaking this thread up, there's not enough HC3800 stuff to justify it. Thanks again; you have been helpful.
I've used and tested many projectors, including the UHD50 and PX-747 and none have exhibited softer focus at full wide angle. To be fair they've all had 1.2 - 1.3 zoom ratios. The UHD50/51A/51ALV/52ALV will throw 119in from 10.5ft
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post #490 of 591 Old 12-31-2019, 01:39 PM
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I've used and tested many projectors, including the UHD50 and PX-747 and none have exhibited softer focus at full wide angle. To be fair they've all had 1.2 - 1.3 zoom ratios. The UHD50/51A/51ALV/52ALV will throw 119in from 10.5ft
Thanks DunMunro;

I originated this thread about replacing my UHD51alv with an Epson HC3800. My UHD51 dropped dead at 400 hrs and barely out of warranty. The UHD51a fit my room perfectly with the zoom set at its mid point. The Epson HC3800 not so much. I no longer trust the UHD51a and Benq raised there prices on the HT3550 by $200, while Epson lowered their prices on the HC3800 by $200, basically trading places on the price scale. I already own an HT3550 set up in another room (you'll have read the original post to get the low down) and I do like it but not enough to pay $200 more for the same projector.
So, what do you think? Should I go for the Epson, which barely fits my throw requirements, or should I go for broke on a high end projector which barely fits my throw requirements, if I can get it at the right price? Or do you have a better ideal? I'm open to all suggestions. Thanks for the reply.
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Originally Posted by bjones8103 View Post
Thanks DunMunro;

I originated this thread about replacing my UHD51alv with an Epson HC3800. My UHD51 dropped dead at 400 hrs and barely out of warranty. The UHD51a fit my room perfectly with the zoom set at its mid point. The Epson HC3800 not so much. I no longer trust the UHD51a and Benq raised there prices on the HT3550 by $200, while Epson lowered their prices on the HC3800 by $200, basically trading places on the price scale. I already own an HT3550 set up in another room (you'll have read the original post to get the low down) and I do like it but not enough to pay $200 more for the same projector.
So, what do you think? Should I go for the Epson, which barely fits my throw requirements, or should I go for broke on a high end projector which barely fits my throw requirements, if I can get it at the right price? Or do you have a better ideal? I'm open to all suggestions. Thanks for the reply.
What happened to the UHD51A and have you talked to Optoma about repair? Did it meet your needs? The ProjectorCentral UHD51ALV review is quite favourable and they can be had refurbed for somewhat less than a new unit.

The high end Epson, Sony and JVCs are are pretty large and not a good fit for your theatre space. OTOH some of the new UST projectors show real promise.

Here's a wild card suggestion. The Optoma ZH403:

https://www.projectorcentral.com/Opt...-Road-Test.htm

It's cheaper than a new UHD51A and has the same throw ratio and only weighs 9.3lb. It accepts 4k HDR and outputs 1080p HDR (which is similar to the HC3200/3800).
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
What happened to the UHD51A and have you talked to Optoma about repair? Did it meet your needs? The ProjectorCentral UHD51ALV review is quite favourable and they can be had refurbed for somewhat less than a new unit.

The high end Epson, Sony and JVCs are are pretty large and not a good fit for your theatre space. OTOH some of the new UST projectors show real promise.

Here's a wild card suggestion. The Optoma ZH403:

https://www.projectorcentral.com/Opt...-Road-Test.htm

It's cheaper than a new UHD51A and has the same throw ratio and only weighs 9.3lb. It accepts 4k HDR and outputs 1080p HDR (which is similar to the HC3200/3800).
The UHD51 was a very good projector. It had the sharpest picture of all my projectors, good color, quiet, but its simulated hdr was buggy, and wouldn't work with about 30% of the blu rays feed to it. Overall, picture quality was better than my Benq HT3550 with the Benq having a slight edge in color. The UHD51 is still under an extended warranty that I purchased with it, but I have to replace the bulb before I can return it. The bulb did not fail on that projector, I've removed it and there is no sign of burn out. It worked fine through a movie one day and simply would not come on the next. I did get a bulb failure light 10 seconds after power up, but my guess is a driver failed or a partial power failure. I agreed to replace the bulb and ordered one from the people who sold me the projector. Ten days later I called my salesman and asked about the bulb, and he checked and said the bulb was back ordered and wouldn't be in until March. Nice of them to keep me informed. I've since placed an order through a second vendor who said they had one in stock. I called back three days later and was informed the bulb was back ordered and to call back after the first of the year to get a status. I'll check for a bare bulb replacement when I call back although that maybe a little dicey on the UHD51. It's easy on the Binqs. If I don't like what I hear after the first, I'm buying another projector. The ZH403 is neat but I'd have to talk to someone who using it for a home projector before I throw money at it. I will research it along with someone who has a demo HC3800. Thanks
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@bjones8103 A comparison between the HC3800 and HT3550 on an 133" screen, this post and some of the ones after it:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post58718788
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The ZH403 is neat but I'd have to talk to someone who using it for a home projector before I throw money at it. I will research it along with someone who has a demo HC3800. Thanks
The same projector is rebadged and marketed as an Optoma home theatre projector in Europe.
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Black screen 0IRE (black), on /off (black white) contrast is at least 2 times higher with the 3800/7100 (appr. 475:1 vs 1.200:1), used equipment HCFR, Spyder4.
hi, did you have a chance to do same kind of a contrast measurement between 3700 and 3800?

also, if you used a spyder4 - was the actual black level reading lower on the 3800 or was the only white one higher?
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What happened to the UHD51A and have you talked to Optoma about repair? Did it meet your needs? The ProjectorCentral UHD51ALV review is quite favourable and they can be had refurbed for somewhat less than a new unit.

The high end Epson, Sony and JVCs are are pretty large and not a good fit for your theatre space. OTOH some of the new UST projectors show real promise.

Here's a wild card suggestion. The Optoma ZH403:

https://www.projectorcentral.com/Opt...-Road-Test.htm

It's cheaper than a new UHD51A and has the same throw ratio and only weighs 9.3lb. It accepts 4k HDR and outputs 1080p HDR (which is similar to the HC3200/3800).
I read the users manual on the ZH403 and I'm impressed. Do you know any one using one? Thanks for the tip.
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I read the users manual on the ZH403 and I'm impressed. Do you know any one using one? Thanks for the tip.
No I don't. I started a thread on it:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post58995502

so hopefully someone will give us a user report.
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hi, did you have a chance to do same kind of a contrast measurement between 3700 and 3800?

also, if you used a spyder4 - was the actual black level reading lower on the 3800 or was the only white one higher?

Hi,
my new TW3700/6700 was quite similar in ON/OFF contrast ratio to my new 3800/7100 (after calibration of both to rec709 standard). But an updated direct comparison makes currently no sense for me due to significant differences in "lamp hours" (operating time) of both projectors. But I have used the same sensor and sreen for all my measurents.

Please see my HCFR screen shots regarding my measured max. black/0IRE for ON/OFF contrast. For max white/100IRE brightness see my HCFR screen shots in my previous post. Both projectors are not calibrated in this measurements. My calibration has led to a lower max white brightness and with that ON/OFF contrast ratio due to necessary B, G gain reduction.
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Well I went to fire up my Epson HC3700 last night and got the auto iris issue warning blue screen of death. After tearing into the projector while trying to watch a YouTube video on how simple the repair is...i.e. remove and clean the auto iris gears... I decided just to throw in the towel figuring that the projector plus a replacement lamp/filter and 27 months of heavy use equated to $44 dollars a month for cost of ownership. (I didn't get far just the top off so someone with more energy/tech savvy might be able to do the "simple" repair.) Now what to buy...

In my less than perfect room, I don't have anything other than a 4K blu-ray player and exactly two 4K blu-ray disks with most of my content (cable, Netflix, Amazon, and more and more YouTube) will be "1080p" or the mess cable calls 1080p these days. The 5050 and 4010 are temping, but the 300ish lamp vs the 100ish lamp rules would greatly increase ownership cost given our heavy use. That leaves the "old" 3100 and 3700 that can still be found cheaply. I know the 3100 would seem a step backwards from he 3700 even if the are probably very close picture wise. I hate to buy the same projector after 27 months with one, so I went ahead and ordered the 3800. Sadly if the darn thing had died three days earlier, I would've received 5% back from the purchase or $75 bucks, but even with the current cost it should be $66 a month at worst for cost of ownership assuming it dies right out of warranty like the 3700.

Of course now I'm going back and forth, cancel the order and get the 4010 or 5050. I've really appreciated the 3700's brightness over the lamp's life with my 151.5" screen and slightly treated room. (Unlike my backup HC2000 which is so inferior/dim/contrast/color to the 3700 it is hard to watch now. Wife doesn't notice much of a difference...of course.) Also, I like the fact I can turn it on and leave it on all day knowing I have an inexpensive spare lamp at hand something that I would never do with the 4010/5050's $300ish lamp.

Well on the plus side I started to order a new filter/lamp for the 3700 on 1/2 only to have the projector die the next day, or is it the negative side since the lamp/filter is the same for the 3800 and the decision would've been easier?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...eap-build.html
Epson HC3800/HC2000; Screen - 151.5" 16:9/TV or 143.5" 2.35:1/HT at a seating distance of 12-15 feet; Yamaha RXV675 for 7.4; Speakers - Infinity Primus; Subs - 3 Polk PSW10s, 1 BIC F12; Headphones - 5 JVC wireless; Sony 3D Blu-ray player/six pairs 3D glasses.
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post #500 of 591 Old 01-04-2020, 10:36 AM
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Well I went to fire up my Epson HC3700 last night and got the auto iris issue warning blue screen of death. After tearing into the projector while trying to watch a YouTube video on how simple the repair is...i.e. remove and clean the auto iris gears... I decided just to throw in the towel figuring that the projector plus a replacement lamp/filter and 27 months of heavy use equated to $44 dollars a month for cost of ownership. (I didn't get far just the top off so someone with more energy/tech savvy might be able to do the "simple" repair.) Now what to buy...

In my less than perfect room, I don't have anything other than a 4K blu-ray player and exactly two 4K blu-ray disks with most of my content (cable, Netflix, Amazon, and more and more YouTube) will be "1080p" or the mess cable calls 1080p these days. The 5050 and 4010 are temping, but the 300ish lamp vs the 100ish lamp rules would greatly increase ownership cost given our heavy use. That leaves the "old" 3100 and 3700 that can still be found cheaply. I know the 3100 would seem a step backwards from he 3700 even if the are probably very close picture wise. I hate to buy the same projector after 27 months with one, so I went ahead and ordered the 3800. Sadly if the darn thing had died three days earlier, I would've received 5% back from the purchase or $75 bucks, but even with the current cost it should be $66 a month at worst for cost of ownership assuming it dies right out of warranty like the 3700.

Of course now I'm going back and forth, cancel the order and get the 4010 or 5050. I've really appreciated the 3700's brightness over the lamp's life with my 151.5" screen and slightly treated room. (Unlike my backup HC2000 which is so inferior/dim/contrast/color to the 3700 it is hard to watch now. Wife doesn't notice much of a difference...of course.) Also, I like the fact I can turn it on and leave it on all day knowing I have an inexpensive spare lamp at hand something that I would never do with the 4010/5050's $300ish lamp.

Well on the plus side I started to order a new filter/lamp for the 3700 on 1/2 only to have the projector die the next day, or is it the negative side since the lamp/filter is the same for the 3800 and the decision would've been easier?
5040UB refurb.
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post #501 of 591 Old 01-04-2020, 12:21 PM
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5040UB refurb.
A good option and probably the logical one, but I factor in that $300ish lamp replacement cost and wasted "contrast" in my much less than perfect room (thumbs). I'd go with the 5050 if the lamps were around $150. It is not the projector's cost, it just seems like a rip off paying $300ish for a lamp. I know it is crazy given the lamp will last 2 plus years (4000/5000), but I can't help it.

Plus I'm a lazy user...I've had the spare projector going since 10 this morning...4 plus hours... and I've probably only been in front of it for an hour. I can see it in this room as I type this and surf the internet. Also, it will probably stay on until after mid-night given the garbage weather day today is unless I decide to start a book.

Yep...the 4000/5000 is just too fancy/good for my simple setup...if I keep saying it, it has to be true.
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post #502 of 591 Old 01-04-2020, 12:32 PM
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A good option and probably the logical one, but I factor in that $300ish lamp replacement cost and wasted "contrast" in my much less than perfect room (thumbs). I'd go with the 5050 if the lamps were around $150. It is not the projector's cost, it just seems like a rip off paying $300ish for a lamp. I know it is crazy given the lamp will last 2 plus years (4000/5000), but I can't help it.

Plus I'm a lazy user...I've had the spare projector going since 10 this morning...4 plus hours... and I've probably only been in front of it for an hour. I can see it in this room as I type this and surf the internet. Also, it will probably stay on until after mid-night given the garbage weather day today is unless I decide to start a book.

Yep...the 4000/5000 is just too fancy/good for my simple setup...if I keep saying it, it has to be true.
Better start treating the room then .
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post #503 of 591 Old 01-04-2020, 01:52 PM
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Better start treating the room then .
Maybe in the next house, but not on one that we could sell at any day. Also, it just limits the main basement room too much for many come listing time. Sadly much like my wife many would rather look out the sliding glass at the pond/wildlife vs a blackout curtain in a dark room, and once the HOA adds the fountain this spring even more so. Hopefully potential buyers will miss the house on the other side that you can open a window and spit on.

For the record, I hate 50 to a 100 geese honking and fighting but maybe potential buyers will overlook the noise not realizing it goes on all day and night sometimes. See mating season...
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Epson HC3800/HC2000; Screen - 151.5" 16:9/TV or 143.5" 2.35:1/HT at a seating distance of 12-15 feet; Yamaha RXV675 for 7.4; Speakers - Infinity Primus; Subs - 3 Polk PSW10s, 1 BIC F12; Headphones - 5 JVC wireless; Sony 3D Blu-ray player/six pairs 3D glasses.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1106 View Post
A good option and probably the logical one, but I factor in that $300ish lamp replacement cost and wasted "contrast" in my much less than perfect room (thumbs). I'd go with the 5050 if the lamps were around $150. It is not the projector's cost, it just seems like a rip off paying $300ish for a lamp. I know it is crazy given the lamp will last 2 plus years (4000/5000), but I can't help it.

Plus I'm a lazy user...I've had the spare projector going since 10 this morning...4 plus hours... and I've probably only been in front of it for an hour. I can see it in this room as I type this and surf the internet. Also, it will probably stay on until after mid-night given the garbage weather day today is unless I decide to start a book.

Yep...the 4000/5000 is just too fancy/good for my simple setup...if I keep saying it, it has to be true.

https://www.purelandsupply.com/epson...ma-5050ub.html

Uses the same Osram bulb that Epson uses.

Definitely buy what suits your needs/wants but... while you would not see the full potential of a 5050ub (in a non-ideal room) there would still be an obvious difference.

Having owned the 3800, 4010 and 5050ub there is definitely a jump in image quality as you move up the Epson line. That said the 3800 is a great all-around PJ, especially at the current price.

- Jason

HT = Epson 5050ub @133" / Marantz SR6013 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" x2 / CV 15" / Sony x800 / Panasonic UB820 VOTE BLUE
Media Room = Sony 65x930e / Denon x3300 /Klipsch speakers /Velodyne subs /Sony x700 /PS4 Pro + PSVR/WiiU/PS3/360/Wii/ 2080 TI - 9900K PC / Multi-Arcade / Virtual Pinball TRE45ON
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post #505 of 591 Old 01-04-2020, 06:35 PM
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Having owned the 3800, 4010 and 5050ub there is definitely a jump in image quality as you move up the Epson line. That said the 3800 is a great all-around PJ, especially at the current price.

- Jason
I'm sure there is a world of difference between a 3800 and 5050ub, but as I keep telling myself, it would be wasted on us. Heck, my wife thinks the backup 2000 with contrast of 324:1/1170.71:1 looks the "same" as the now deceased 3700's 2142:1/25207:1. I was "okay" with the HC3700 and even my 23 and 25 year old daughters claim it is better than going to a movie theater today given bathroom, snack comfort, lack of distraction, cost and sound may factor more in to the claim than image quality. I wouldn't know since my last movie theater experience was for Avengers: Age of Ultron (New Regal theater 2 miles from he house, ticket counter was down, employee didn't know that [email protected]$10 was forty and gave me back a ten for two twenties/manager quickly stepped in, sound was way too loud/speakers would pop during action, young person behind us explaining every scene to an older person, light in projection booth left on casting a box on the screen, attendant checked front exit door with a flash light every 10/15 minutes, and front exit signs were blindingly bright = never again when I can do a scope movie in my home at 143.5").

While I am sure I will kick myself on down the road for not truly "upgrading", I think the 3800 will suit our needs for a few more years especially since 4K content will be far less than 1% of total viewing. My biggest debate is whether to cancel the 3800 order and grab another 3700 for $500 less at BB once again putting cost of ownership at $44 a month over 24 months. At that price point these things are disposable every few years as they wear out.

Admittedly I was originally on the fence about the added cost of the 3700 instead of going with the new model 2000 series, and it took opening the box and firing it up beside the old projector to sell me, so I guess I'm still slightly on the fence on the 3800 vs the 5050. Still at almost a 50% price difference, will I see a 50% increase in image quality with the 5050? I don't think so???
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post #506 of 591 Old 01-04-2020, 06:58 PM
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I'm sure there is a world of difference between a 3800 and 5050ub, but as I keep telling myself, it would be wasted on us. Heck, my wife thinks the backup 2000 with contrast of 324:1/1170.71:1 looks the "same" as the now deceased 3700's 2142:1/25207:1. I was "okay" with the HC3700 and even my 23 and 25 year old daughters claim it is better than going to a movie theater today given bathroom, snack comfort, lack of distraction, cost and sound may factor more in to the claim than image quality. I wouldn't know since my last movie theater experience was for Avengers: Age of Ultron (New Regal theater 2 miles from he house, ticket counter was down, employee didn't know that [email protected]$10 was forty and gave me back a ten for two twenties/manager quickly stepped in, sound was way too loud/speakers would pop during action, young person behind us explaining every scene to an older person, light in projection booth left on casting a box on the screen, attendant checked front exit door with a flash light every 10/15 minutes, and front exit signs were blindingly bright = never again when I can do a scope movie in my home at 143.5").

While I am sure I will kick myself on down the road for not truly "upgrading", I think the 3800 will suit our needs for a few more years especially since 4K content will be far less than 1% of total viewing. My biggest debate is whether to cancel the 3800 order and grab another 3700 for $500 less at BB once again putting cost of ownership at $44 a month over 24 months. At that price point these things are disposable every few years as they wear out.

Admittedly I was originally on the fence about the added cost of the 3700 instead of going with the new model 2000 series, and it took opening the box and firing it up beside the old projector to sell me, so I guess I'm still slightly on the fence on the 3800 vs the 5050. Still at almost a 50% price difference, will I see a 50% increase in image quality with the 5050? I don't think so???
Besides @DaGamePimp who has tested both, there are also these two posts:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post58879762
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post58907882

Another reason to get a 4K device is to gain access to higher bitrate streams, although other devices can do that, and convert it to 1080p and send it to the projector.
Like the UB420.
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post #507 of 591 Old 01-05-2020, 09:18 AM
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@steve1106 , I've always thought of you as an Epson 3000 series kind of guy. From what I've read so far I'm guessing you will find the 3800 to be enough of an upgrade over the 3700 to make it worthwhile. Per your earlier question, the 3700 and 3800 use the same ELPLP85 genuine replacement lamp for $99 so no need to play Russian roulette with various "compatible" lamps.
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@steve1106 , I've always thought of you as an Epson 3000 series kind of guy. From what I've read so far I'm guessing you will find the 3800 to be enough of an upgrade over the 3700 to make it worthwhile. Per your earlier question, the 3700 and 3800 use the same ELPLP85 genuine replacement lamp for $99 so no need to play Russian roulette with various "compatible" lamps.
That is the rub. I don't think the 3800 will be enough of an upgrade over the 3700 to make it worthwhile. The 3700 was perfect... for us...bright picture, much better blacks than the old projector, simple calibration, quiet, good all around image, cheap enough to turn on and leave on and small enough to easily move. Now if 4k was the standard... sure, but in a world where I'm just happy to get close to HD not so much. Still the 3700 was perfect so hopefully the 3800 will fit the bill for a couple of years.

In a perfect world I would be upgrading in 9 to 12 months, still have the 3700 for 80% of "my" casual viewing and then the 5050 could be used for the 20% of viewing. I still may have a go at the 3700 repair since I am fairly sure a simple cleaning of the auto iris would suffice...it is just getting the darn thing torn down while not getting dust in the light path and then successfully reassembling it. Sadly my 10 months of Air Force Electronics training (instrument/auto pilot) was 35 years ago.

Update: Just checked and Amazon has now shipped the 3800 so the final decision "ship has sailed". Unfortunately Amazon "expletive" and moved the promised arrival day from Tuesday to Friday. Since I have to be here to sign for the "large purchase" and have out of town plans during the day on Friday, "expletive...expletive...expletive".

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...eap-build.html
Epson HC3800/HC2000; Screen - 151.5" 16:9/TV or 143.5" 2.35:1/HT at a seating distance of 12-15 feet; Yamaha RXV675 for 7.4; Speakers - Infinity Primus; Subs - 3 Polk PSW10s, 1 BIC F12; Headphones - 5 JVC wireless; Sony 3D Blu-ray player/six pairs 3D glasses.
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post #509 of 591 Old 01-05-2020, 11:38 AM
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@steve1106 , looking forward to reading comments about your real world comparison of the 3700 and 3800. If you don't see a big difference and you get your 3700 repaired then you should be able to return the 3800 to Amazon.
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post #510 of 591 Old 01-05-2020, 11:39 AM
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That is the rub. I don't think the 3800 will be enough of an upgrade over the 3700 to make it worthwhile. The 3700 was perfect... for us...bright picture, much better blacks than the old projector, simple calibration, quiet, good all around image, cheap enough to turn on and leave on and small enough to easily move. Now if 4k was the standard... sure, but in a world where I'm just happy to get close to HD not so much. Still the 3700 was perfect so hopefully the 3800 will fit the bill for a couple of years.



In a perfect world I would be upgrading in 9 to 12 months, still have the 3700 for 80% of "my" casual viewing and then the 5050 could be used for the 20% of viewing. I still may have a go at the 3700 repair since I am fairly sure a simple cleaning of the auto iris would suffice...it is just getting the darn thing torn down while not getting dust in the light path and then successfully reassembling it. Sadly my 10 months of Air Force Electronics training (instrument/auto pilot) was 35 years ago.



Update: Just checked and Amazon has now shipped the 3800 so the final decision "ship has sailed". Unfortunately Amazon "expletive" and moved the promised arrival day from Tuesday to Friday. Since I have to be here to sign for the "large purchase" and have out of town plans during the day on Friday, "expletive...expletive...expletive".
I am unable to see 3800 being sold by Amazon.

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