Epson HC 3200 and 3800 revealed - Page 19 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #541 of 831 Old 01-15-2020, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1106 View Post
So after 30 hours with the 3800 and a "correct" calibration, I'm finally sold and just registered the 3800.



Blu-ray enhanced alone makes it a worthy upgrade over the 3700 and after finally streaming in 4K it is definitely a keeper for the "sale" price. (My true 4K player arrived this morning and for the last three hours I've been sampling 4K via Amazon and YouTube...still got to find my Netflix password and try one of my "2" 4K blu-rays.) After finally getting the calibration right (disk's advanced calibration's contrast was way off when I ran expert), the only issue now is that the focus is not uniform so a compromise had to be made between laser sharp center focus and a soft bottom right side, or a slight softening the center to sharpen the side. It could be an issue with projector placement given it is on a high shelf and a liberal amount of lens shift is being used while I am only using a painted wall as a screen.



I'm still a little curious about the HC4010's better lens/focus/image, but I think given my "basic" media room the added brightness of the 3800 makes it the right choice. With it I can replace the lamp three times for the cost of one 4010 lamp and with my 151.5" 16:9 or 143.5" 2.35:1 brightness is a must. It helps that the slightly soft area is below the image when doing scope, that it is not really noticeable when watching shows and there was good priced difference between the projectors at time of purchase. (The only issue is I know it is there and keep looking for it. )



As an aside, does anyone know a good projector repair shop around Northern Virginia or DC. I really think the HC3700 auto iris is just a stuck iris/gear given we never heard grinding or experience any issues until the day I fired it up and immediately got the iris fault blue screen of death. It just seems a shame to toss it given the hours on the unit and sadly my year of military electronics training was back in 1985 and they were still teaching "tubes" back then. Admittedly we were the last class to get tubes or so they said.
Can you provide details on how you did the calibration? I have it using the out of the box settings and feel there is opportunity for improvement. What specific changes did you make and can you provide what disc you used to calibrate?

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post #542 of 831 Old 01-15-2020, 02:42 PM
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Folks - can someone please help me? I purchased the 3800 and am using it as is out of the box without tweaking any settings. Can anyone help me with what are the most optimal settings or point me to a good cheap calibration resource (disc?)?

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post #543 of 831 Old 01-15-2020, 03:22 PM
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Has anyone tried these setting for Dynamic to see if the green tint goes away?

However, there is an easy way to improve the picture quality without bothering with a professional calibration. In the onscreen menu, go to Image/Advanced/RGB and drop Offset G from 0 to -1. Believe it or not, this tiny adjustment takes out a noticeable amount of the green, improves color saturation and contrast, and renders better flesh tones. Meanwhile it reduces lumen output by only 3%, so you still end up netting out 4200+ lumens.

From this review:

https://www.projectorcentral.com/eps...tor-review.htm
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post #544 of 831 Old 01-15-2020, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genaccmiller View Post
Folks - can someone please help me? I purchased the 3800 and am using it as is out of the box without tweaking any settings. Can anyone help me with what are the most optimal settings or point me to a good cheap calibration resource (disc?)?

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post #545 of 831 Old 01-17-2020, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
If you're sure the projector is absolutely level and at a 90-degree angle to the wall, the most frequent issue with one corner being out of focus is that the wall isn't absolutely flat. Most people don't realize it but there is actually quite a bit of variation in typical home room walls. Standing in a doorway, putting your eye close to the edge and sighting down the length of a wall can give you a graphic illustration of how far it can vary from flat. I've seen walls that looked like they were thrown together by a bunch of drunks.

Anyway, glad to hear the 3800 is now working for you.
I ran a laser along the wall/screen and it was illuminating , so the fault may be with the "screen" and placement rather than the projector. I'm beginning to think this projector is less than forgiving with the higher contrast than the old 1080p projectors. Still it is a stunning image when fed 4K while "low quality" HD and SD looks like crap with the enhancement on.

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post #546 of 831 Old 01-17-2020, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genaccmiller View Post
Can you provide details on how you did the calibration? I have it using the out of the box settings and feel there is opportunity for improvement. What specific changes did you make and can you provide what disc you used to calibrate?

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Sorry I haven't responded but my adjustments are so "low tech" and geared towards a slightly treated (not completely dark) room that I doubt they would be of use to anyone.

...but here is what I do: I stick with the "simple" menu controls on the projector (brightness, contrast, color, tint, sharpness and enhancement presets) . I use a Disney "Wow" HD disk (no longer available) and set the brightness/contrast. Next I dive into the color using the provided filter to dial in the colors and then recheck the contrast. (Note: I noticed one of of the calibration disk manufacturers claims the filter does not work with today's 4K.) I then double/triple check with the 4K calibration tools at YouTube. The final result is 4K and quality HD color/tint look great while "poor quality" signals are a mixed bag of good to poor color/tint.

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post #547 of 831 Old 01-18-2020, 12:54 AM
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Hi which PJ can you recommend between HC3800, UHD51 or W3550.
I have my projector in ceiling mount and 120" Tab Tension Grandview screen. Normally I don't blackened the room completely since it's livingroom but on occations I can.
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post #548 of 831 Old 01-18-2020, 12:24 PM
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I am using enhancement preset 3. Is there a better one to use on the 3800 for movies?

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post #549 of 831 Old 01-21-2020, 04:05 PM
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Perhaps you've already seen this, but have you tried:


Natural mode
Contrast: 58
Brightness: 42
Custom color temperature:
R GAIN: 55
B GAIN: 50
V GAIN: 49
R BIAS: 52
B BIAS: 50
V BIAS: 51


and other settings and tips from:
https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blo...is-de-gregory/



Quote:
Originally Posted by genaccmiller View Post
Folks - can someone please help me? I purchased the 3800 and am using it as is out of the box without tweaking any settings. Can anyone help me with what are the most optimal settings or point me to a good cheap calibration resource (disc?)?

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post #550 of 831 Old 01-21-2020, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaronman View Post
Perhaps you've already seen this, but have you tried:


Natural mode
Contrast: 58
Brightness: 42
Custom color temperature:
R GAIN: 55
B GAIN: 50
V GAIN: 49
R BIAS: 52
B BIAS: 50
V BIAS: 51


and other settings and tips from:
https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blo...is-de-gregory/
I haven't tried this yet.

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post #551 of 831 Old 01-25-2020, 04:55 AM
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Hello - does anyone know how to set gamma curve to 2.4 on the Epson 3800? I only see these options.

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post #552 of 831 Old 01-26-2020, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaronman View Post
Perhaps you've already seen this, but have you tried:


Natural mode
Contrast: 58
Brightness: 42
Custom color temperature:
R GAIN: 55
B GAIN: 50
V GAIN: 49
R BIAS: 52
B BIAS: 50
V BIAS: 51


and other settings and tips from:
https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blo...is-de-gregory/


I tried that in my TW7000. I do not have “bias” on my menu, but I guess “offset” is the same. I entered those parameters and the PQ is great, despite it fails in the black clipping test

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post #553 of 831 Old 01-26-2020, 05:02 PM
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Hello folks - I really need some help. I did the configuration recommended in the below guide but am seeing bright red colors on my Epson 3800 (see pics). These settings were recommended on the ub420 threas. I have not made any other changes. Also the only other thing the guide recommended was to adjust gamma to 2.4 which doesn't seem to be an option on the 3800. I have the mode set to cinema and have not made any other adjustments. Can someone help me understand why I am getting reddish colors? Also with the settings below the HDR on my remote when pressed shows signal status as SDR even for 4k shows streaming from Netflix. I am using a Panasonic ub420 uhd player and an Epson 3800 projector.


Panasonic UB420 / UB820 Optimal Settings for Projectors (SDR2020):

On the UB420 / UB820:

Settings>HDMI>Advanced>HDR/Color Gamut Output>SDR/BT.2020

Settings>HDMI>Advanced>HDR/Color Gamut Output>HDR TV Type>Basic Luminance LCD and Projector

Settings>Audio>Settings for High Clarity Sound>Front Panel Display>Off (UB820 preference)

On the UB420 / UB820 During 4K Disc Playback:

Options (remote button)>Video Settings>Optimum HDR Adjustment>HDR Optimizer>On (preference)

Options (remote button)>Video Settings>Optimum HDR Adjustment>Dynamic Range Conversion Adjustment>+4 to +8 (preference)

Regarding HDR Optimizer, you lose some brightness but gain detail in explosions and similar. I started with this off but now have it on. Dynamic Range Conversion Adjustment will depend a lot on your screen size, bigger screens will want more. I have left the other settings at defaults (so far).

On the Projector (JVC specific settings here):

Color Profile>BT.2020

Gamma>2.4

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post #554 of 831 Old 01-29-2020, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genaccmiller View Post
(...) shows signal status as SDR even for 4k shows streaming from Netflix. I am using a Panasonic ub420 uhd player and an Epson 3800 projector.
(...)
On the Projector (JVC specific settings here):
Color Profile>BT.2020
(...)

If your Netflix content is 4K but content colors are SDR/Rec709 stadard (not HDR/BT2020) as many 4K videos in Netflix and your color profile in the projector is BT2020 and not BT709 you get mandatory red faces/reddish colors (also as example also yellow and all colors in right located CIE gamut are "extended" and far away from von Rec709 colours, that are used for mastering of this content.
Additional you get a smaller colour deviation with using cinema instead of natural modus.


Could this perhaps be your problem ? If yes, first solution could be the selection of correct colour profile in 3800 (related to content) and additonal the use of the natural modus (not cinema).
But the small "problem" of the HC3800 is it´s "week" BT709 color profile/space (compared e g. to 3700) and for optimization the only way is calibration (in the case it bothers you)
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post #555 of 831 Old 01-29-2020, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genaccmiller View Post
Hello folks - I really need some help. I did the configuration recommended in the below guide but am seeing bright red colors on my Epson 3800 (see pics). These settings were recommended on the ub420 threas. I have not made any other changes. Also the only other thing the guide recommended was to adjust gamma to 2.4 which doesn't seem to be an option on the 3800. I have the mode set to cinema and have not made any other adjustments. Can someone help me understand why I am getting reddish colors? Also with the settings below the HDR on my remote when pressed shows signal status as SDR even for 4k shows streaming from Netflix. I am using a Panasonic ub420 uhd player and an Epson 3800 projector.


Panasonic UB420 / UB820 Optimal Settings for Projectors (SDR2020):

On the UB420 / UB820:

Settings>HDMI>Advanced>HDR/Color Gamut Output>SDR/BT.2020

Settings>HDMI>Advanced>HDR/Color Gamut Output>HDR TV Type>Basic Luminance LCD and Projector

Settings>Audio>Settings for High Clarity Sound>Front Panel Display>Off (UB820 preference)

On the UB420 / UB820 During 4K Disc Playback:

Options (remote button)>Video Settings>Optimum HDR Adjustment>HDR Optimizer>On (preference)

Options (remote button)>Video Settings>Optimum HDR Adjustment>Dynamic Range Conversion Adjustment>+4 to +8 (preference)

Regarding HDR Optimizer, you lose some brightness but gain detail in explosions and similar. I started with this off but now have it on. Dynamic Range Conversion Adjustment will depend a lot on your screen size, bigger screens will want more. I have left the other settings at defaults (so far).

On the Projector (JVC specific settings here):

Color Profile>BT.2020



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If you feed your projector SDR BT2020, you are removing the HDR flag from the data stream and the projector will not show HDR.

I have found that that using SDR BT2020 works fine for disc content, but less so for streaming content, so on balance, if you're using the UB420 for streaming, I would leave it on HDR BT2020. Also, at least on my UB420 the HDR Optimizer is locked out whilst watching non-HDR streamed content, even using the "Options" button. To change this you having to enable SDR->HDR conversion in the UB420 settings- HDMI- advanced menu.
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post #556 of 831 Old 01-30-2020, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
If you feed your projector SDR BT2020, you are removing the HDR flag from the data stream and the projector will not show HDR.

I have found that that using SDR BT2020 works fine for disc content, but less so for streaming content, so on balance, if you're using the UB420 for streaming, I would leave it on HDR BT2020. Also, at least on my UB420 the HDR Optimizer is locked out whilst watching non-HDR streamed content, even using the "Options" button. To change this you having to enable SDR->HDR conversion in the UB420 settings- HDMI- advanced menu.
Hello





There is a new test of the 3200 model - it shows that it has a native contrast of 620: 1 while the 3800 model has a 1876: 1 contrast


https://www.zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=20/05/sy3v.jpg
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post #557 of 831 Old 01-30-2020, 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Arkadius View Post
Hello





There is a new test of the 3200 model - it shows that it has a native contrast of 620: 1 while the 3800 model has a 1876: 1 contrast


https://www.zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=20/05/sy3v.jpg
Source?
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post #558 of 831 Old 01-30-2020, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Source?
From this review: https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blo...r-test-phc-fr/

The photo is linked in a comment by the blog's OP
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post #559 of 831 Old 02-06-2020, 01:16 AM
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The test of the Epson EH-TW7000 (HC3200) is online and allows to position oneself on the best choice between the TW7000 and the TW7100 (HC3800) according to your expectations. As usual you will find a French and English version in the same article.


https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blo...is-de-gregory/
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post #560 of 831 Old 02-06-2020, 04:27 AM
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Thanks! Great to finally have a detailed review and comparison of both models, with technical measurements, from a source we can trust, the magnifique Grégory!


Also great to see that there is a REAL and NOTABLE difference in contrast for the difference in price, with the 3800/7100 having TRIPLE the native contrast of the 3200/7000. Bravo Epson, nice to see some honesty in advertising (if not in the exact contrast ratio numbers haha).


Also great to put an end to all the endless and rather vociferous speculation about contrast on the two models here, mostly by members who haven't seen the actual units or measured the contrast.


Of course we all realize that in an average-sized, white-walled living room, the contrast difference may still be minimal or not visible, especially considering the lower brightness of the 3200/7000, which wouldn't necessarily be a disadvantage in that environment.
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post #561 of 831 Old 02-06-2020, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraine View Post
The test of the Epson EH-TW7000 (HC3200) is online and allows to position oneself on the best choice between the TW7000 and the TW7100 (HC3800) according to your expectations. As usual you will find a French and English version in the same article.


https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blo...is-de-gregory/


Thanks for the link. It is strange the settings recommendation, lowering the brightness looks ok, but not the contrast. For me it works better to increase contrast to 54/55. Other websites recommend the same

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Displays: LG 65C7V - Epson TW7000 - Elite Screen Ezcinema Plus 2 107”
5.2.2: Focal Aria 948/CC900/906 - 2x BK XLS200 mk2 - B&W CCM362
Electronics: Marantz SR7013 - Emotiva A300 - Oppo 203 - PS4 Pro
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post #562 of 831 Old 02-06-2020, 08:54 AM
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been debating over getting the 3800 or just waiting for another year or two. I thought about the 6050 but man I just can't seem to spend that kind of money on a non Native 4k projector no matter how good it is and if I got the 5050 I feel like I would regret not spending the extra money on the 6050 and the 5040 and 4010 are out also...so I am at the 3800.



My current setup is great but I am looking to go 4K as I have everything else setup for it. I have the Epson 2150, Darbeevision 5000s, DE Pulsar 1.4 ALR screen, Blacked out around the screen, Panny 820, and running through a Yamaha 5200 and Panamax 5400...


I am very curious on the 3800 and if it would be that much of an improvement over the 2150 besides 4K in my current setup...if it is close then I might just wait awhile. I watched Gemini Man and can't see how much better the image could look as far as sharpness and clarity but I know with HDR will make the colors pop and look better.
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post #563 of 831 Old 02-06-2020, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaronman View Post

Of course we all realize that in an average-sized, white-walled living room, the contrast difference may still be minimal or not visible, especially considering the lower brightness of the 3200/7000, which wouldn't necessarily be a disadvantage in that environment.
A projector with better contrast will still perform better at low ADL. Check out these three models in white vs. treated rooms at 1 and 2% ADL (the dots between the 0 and 5% on the graph).
This is what 0.156% ADL looks like: https://i.imgur.com/koEbTIr.png
And 2.96%: https://i.imgur.com/8av85aV.png

Quote:
Originally Posted by tokbandit View Post
been debating over getting the 3800 or just waiting for another year or two. I thought about the 6050 but man I just can't seem to spend that kind of money on a non Native 4k projector no matter how good it is and if I got the 5050 I feel like I would regret not spending the extra money on the 6050 and the 5040 and 4010 are out also...so I am at the 3800.



My current setup is great but I am looking to go 4K as I have everything else setup for it. I have the Epson 2150, Darbeevision 5000s, DE Pulsar 1.4 ALR screen, Blacked out around the screen, Panny 820, and running through a Yamaha 5200 and Panamax 5400...


I am very curious on the 3800 and if it would be that much of an improvement over the 2150 besides 4K in my current setup...if it is close then I might just wait awhile. I watched Gemini Man and can't see how much better the image could look as far as sharpness and clarity but I know with HDR will make the colors pop and look better.
Why would you need more brightness? The DES screen has a 1.4 gain and I don't think they make them bigger than 120".

The Epson 5xxxUB/6xxxUB series are brighter than the HC2150 and only slightly less bright than the HC3800. Just look at the measurements between the three (bottom of the post).

Digital Cinema and Cinema (in the 5xxx/6xxxUB series) have lower values because the DCI P3 filter is enabled on these two presets, but Bright Cinema is very close to the HC3800.

It terms of color gamut, the HC2150 and HC3800 are more similar, hovering around 100% or REC.709. Could not find the figures for the HC2150, but for the HC3800 it's 105% REC.709/71% DCI P3, with 112%/75% DCI P3 after calibration. Out of the box presets for the HC3800 are not great, with users (see posts above) requesting better settings.

The 5xxx/6xxxUB series can cover 87% of DCI P3, with over 100% when the filter is engaged. The HC3800 does not have a filter, and while the filter reduces brightness, the remaining lumens are enough for an 1.4 gain screen that can't be larger than 120".

The 5xxx/6xxxUB series have better lenses and other components than the HC3xxx series.


With that setup a projector with good black level could be used. If you don't want to get the 5050UB, than a refurbished 5040UB is less than half the price, comes with warranty direct from Epson. It has a 10GB HDMI, which means it cannot do do 4K HDR 60Hz, 30Hz at the most. This is not just for gaming, some boxes/streaming services require 60Hz, even if most movies/TV are in 24Hz. To bypass this limitation the bit depth needs to be dropped to 8bit from 10. This can be achieved via a HDFury linker.
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post #564 of 831 Old 02-06-2020, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tokbandit View Post
I am very curious on the 3800 and if it would be that much of an improvement over the 2150 besides 4K in my current setup...if it is close then I might just wait awhile. I watched Gemini Man and can't see how much better the image could look as far as sharpness and clarity but I know with HDR will make the colors pop and look better.
I would say just keep the 2150 if you are "mostly" happy with it. While my jump from a HC2000 to a HC3700 (which died last month) was a dramatic increase in quality in terms of colors/sharpness/contrast, the jump from the 3700 was much less noticeable except when fed quality 1080p or 4k material. In addition it may be a trick of my eyes but the black level look noticeably better than the 3700 with the 3800.

Now where the 3800 seems to struggle is with tint/color which is all over the place as I switch channels on cable from SD to what Comcast claims is HD these days. The 4K enhancement is nice but the 3800 is not as "plug and play" or "set and go" ready as my 3700 was. With the 3700 I could jump between blu-rays, streaming, computer and cable while never having to switch modes. Not really a big deal with the 3800 since there are 10 memory presents but I do have to select the saved "memory", load it and then also pick the color... auto, 709 or 2020 sometimes going back and froth between the "memories" several times to find the right one for the content at hand.

So lets look at the 2150 vs the 3800. First there will be a noticeable size difference in the projectors. Second, the 3800 is whisper quiet next to my old HC2000. Third, better lens shift than your 2150 for easy placement. Fourth, you should see a noticeable increase in contrast and some color improvement especially when the projector is fed 4k material, up-scaled 1080p blu-rays and 4k streaming.

I would say wait for the HC4010 upgrade or the next version of the 3000 series unless the 4K bug has you. I feel like Epson's faux 4K at this level needs time to mature. Now that being said, I am happy with the 3800 after 300 hour of use. Even up-scaled DVDs look amazing with the projector and I'm sold on the "sharpness". I do a 151.5" 16:9 and a 143.5" 2.35:1 with flexible seating for six so I have been toying with moving the front seats from 12' to 9-10' with the sharpness bump. (I think the wife will choose to stay at 12 feet along with one other family member who likes 17 feet, but two of us will be at the 9 to 10 mark.)

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post #565 of 831 Old 02-06-2020, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by steve1106 View Post
I would say just keep the 2150 if you are "mostly" happy with it. While my jump from a HC2000 to a HC3700 (which died last month) was a dramatic increase in quality in terms of colors/sharpness/contrast, the jump from the 3700 was much less noticeable except when fed quality 1080p or 4k material. In addition it may be a trick of my eyes but the black level look noticeably better than the 3700 with the 3800.

Now where the 3800 seems to struggle is with tint/color which is all over the place as I switch channels on cable from SD to what Comcast claims is HD these days. The 4K enhancement is nice but the 3800 is not as "plug and play" or "set and go" ready as my 3700 was. With the 3700 I could jump between blu-rays, streaming, computer and cable while never having to switch modes. Not really a big deal with the 3800 since there are 10 memory presents but I do have to select the saved "memory", load it and then also pick the color... auto, 709 or 2020 sometimes going back and froth between the "memories" several times to find the right one for the content at hand.

So lets look at the 2150 vs the 3800. First there will be a noticeable size difference in the projectors. Second, the 3800 is whisper quiet next to my old HC2000. Third, better lens shift than your 2150 for easy placement. Fourth, you should see a noticeable increase in contrast and some color improvement especially when the projector is fed 4k material, up-scaled 1080p blu-rays and 4k streaming.

I would say wait for the HC4010 upgrade or the next version of the 3000 series unless the 4K bug has you. I feel like Epson's faux 4K at this level needs time to mature. Now that being said, I am happy with the 3800 after 300 hour of use. Even up-scaled DVDs look amazing with the projector and I'm sold on the "sharpness". I do a 151.5" 16:9 and a 143.5" 2.35:1 with flexible seating for six so I have been toying with moving the front seats from 12' to 9-10' with the sharpness bump. (I think the wife will choose to stay at 12 feet along with one other family member who likes 17 feet, but two of us will be at the 9 to 10 mark.)
I can understand the difference in contrast and sharpness between the HC2150 and 3xxx series, but why color? Aren't these models roughly the same in this respect? With SDR I mean. Could your screen size possibly be one reason?
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post #566 of 831 Old 02-06-2020, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
I can understand the difference in contrast and sharpness between the HC2150 and 3xxx series, but why color? Aren't these models roughly the same in this respect? With SDR I mean. Could your screen size possibly be one reason?
On color, I think the software/processing is the issue with the projector struggling to keep the color/tint consistent as I change channels/sources. I noticed this on my HC2000(s) that the projector's color/tint would vary between channels and sources. For whatever reason the HC3700 was just more uniform from channel to channel/source to source, and I never had to mess with modes/settings.

On the perceived color difference between the 3700 and 3800 I would say it is a wash on cable 1080p, but with the right color mode it seems to pop more with up-scaled disks and 4K...but keep in mind I just set my 3700 and left it unlike the 3800 which I actively have to search for the best "color/tint" which may be most of the difference. (Part of the reason I want to mess with freeing the auto iris on the 3700 is to do a direct side by side comparison just to prove or disprove that the 3800 was a worthwhile upgrade.)

On screen size...sure since it is just a painted wall it could be a major factor. I have already determined that a perceived softness in one section of the image matches a slight "difference" between drywall sheets...something that was never a factor with my DLP, Epson HC2000 (well one of them) and my HC3700. (Only noticed it during the 3800's calibration and confirmed it when I ran a laser along the wall and found the fault was the wall/screen and not the projector. Also it is not really noticeable with shows/movies and below a scope image so not enough of a bother to get a real screen.)
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[QUOTE=noob00224;59207966]A projector with better contrast will still perform better at low ADL. Check out these three models in white vs. treated rooms at 1 and 2% ADL (the dots between the 0 and 5% on the graph).
This is what 0.156% ADL looks like: https://i.imgur.com/koEbTIr.png
And 2.96%: https://i.imgur.com/8av85aV.png

Thanks.


I have no doubt you are completely correct. Maybe the difference wouldn't matter to some people, especially considering the apparently significantly higher lumens of the 7100 in a small, white room, but I would certainly go for the much higher contrast model if I could afford it, even for use in my living room.
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post #568 of 831 Old 02-06-2020, 12:06 PM
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@steve1106 I was thinking the increased lumens of the 3800 would improve colors over the 2150 since it's a fairly large screen.


[quote=Aaronman;59208752]
Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
A projector with better contrast will still perform better at low ADL. Check out these three models in white vs. treated rooms at 1 and 2% ADL (the dots between the 0 and 5% on the graph).
This is what 0.156% ADL looks like: https://i.imgur.com/koEbTIr.png
And 2.96%: https://i.imgur.com/8av85aV.png

Thanks.


I have no doubt you are completely correct. Maybe the difference wouldn't matter to some people, especially considering the apparently significantly higher lumens of the 7100 in a small, white room, but I would certainly go for the much higher contrast model if I could afford it, even for use in my living room.
Why would the difference would not matter considering the higher lumens in a small white room? If the picture is dark the difference will be there.

As for what ADL movies generally have: http://projectiondream.com/en/movie-...-measurements/

Conclusion:
90% of all movie pictures have a brightness below 20% (ADL=% of white)
80% of all movie pictures have a brightness below 13%
50% of all movie pictures have a brightness below 5%
The average brightness/ADL of all analyzed movies is 8%
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post #569 of 831 Old 02-06-2020, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
@steve1106 I was thinking the increased lumens of the 3800 would improve colors over the 2150 since it's a fairly large screen.
My mistake. You are right I noticed the color difference right out of the box in a direct comparison between my 3000 lumens HC3700 and my 1800 lumens HC2000, but I figured the major difference in contrast also impacted the color pop. With the brighter and much improved 2150, the difference should be much less. (I should note neither projector had been calibrated with the 3700 right out of the box and the spare 2000 with a new lamp.)
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post #570 of 831 Old 02-06-2020, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaronman View Post

Why would the difference would not matter considering the higher lumens in a small white room? If the picture is dark the difference will be there.

As for what ADL movies generally have: http://projectiondream.com/en/movie-...-measurements/

Conclusion:
90% of all movie pictures have a brightness below 20% (ADL=% of white)
80% of all movie pictures have a brightness below 13%
50% of all movie pictures have a brightness below 5%
The average brightness/ADL of all analyzed movies is 8%

That's a good point also, thanks for those statistics. Very interesting, I didn't know that but if I think about it, it does seem true from my memory of dark scenes on my old projector that doesn't have very good black levels.



Perhaps you misunderstood my point. I did not state that the difference wouldn't matter because of it being a small, white room.. I wrote "Maybe the difference wouldn't matter to some people, especially considering the apparently significantly higher lumens of the 7100 in a small, white room"


What I mean is that, although there would be a visible difference in dark scenes, that difference may not be a deciding factor for some people in choosing between the two models since the perceived contrast difference may be rather minor (in fact many people, usually wives ahahaha, don't seem to notice or care even about large differences in contrast) and it would have to be weighed against the fact that both these projectors are really rather bright for a small room with highly reflective walls and ceiling and so they would wash out the image (especially if it's being projected on a white wall and not an ALR screen) every time a high ADL scene came around, which happens in every film or show, regardless of how low the percentage of high ADL frames is overall. Some people here have already tried out both models and said they either didn't see a big difference or didn't care about that difference, for example stating "ANSI contrast is quite similar" while noting the difference in ON/OFF contrast, which people will judge differently, depending on which one they personally care about more.


Obviously a living room with a reflective ceiling and walls is only one user scenario, but it's relatively common at this price point.


As I said, personally perceived contrast and black levels, especially in dark scenes, is very important to me and I would much prefer the model with higher contrast, even if the difference between the two may be reduced without a treated room.
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