Epson HC 3200 and 3800 revealed - Page 20 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #571 of 597 Old 02-06-2020, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaronman View Post
That's a good point also, thanks for those statistics. Very interesting, I didn't know that but if I think about it, it does seem true from my memory of dark scenes on my old projector that doesn't have very good black levels.



Perhaps you misunderstood my point. I did not state that the difference wouldn't matter because of it being a small, white room.. I wrote "Maybe the difference wouldn't matter to some people, especially considering the apparently significantly higher lumens of the 7100 in a small, white room"


What I mean is that, although there would be a visible difference in dark scenes, that difference may not be a deciding factor for some people in choosing between the two models since the perceived contrast difference may be rather minor (in fact many people, usually wives ahahaha, don't seem to notice or care even about large differences in contrast) and it would have to be weighed against the fact that both these projectors are really rather bright for a small room with highly reflective walls and ceiling and so they would wash out the image (especially if it's being projected on a white wall and not an ALR screen) every time a high ADL scene came around, which happens in every film or show, regardless of how low the percentage of high ADL frames is overall. Some people here have already tried out both models and said they either didn't see a big difference or didn't care about that difference, for example stating "ANSI contrast is quite similar" while noting the difference in ON/OFF contrast, which people will judge differently, depending on which one they personally care about more.


Obviously a living room with a reflective ceiling and walls is only one user scenario, but it's relatively common at this price point.


As I said, personally perceived contrast and black levels, especially in dark scenes, is very important to me and I would much prefer the model with higher contrast, even if the difference between the two may be reduced without a treated room.
This is what they say, and after they see what it looks like they change their mind .

It depends on what type of content is being watched.

Have you seen these two posts?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post59021304
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post59098650
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post #572 of 597 Old 02-06-2020, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
This is what they say, and after they see what it looks like they change their mind .

It depends on what type of content is being watched.

Have you seen these two posts?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post59021304
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post59098650

Sorry, I'm not sure what you are referring to exactly when you say °This is what they say", since I wrote such long, convoluted post haha. But I think I know what you mean, I have read that contrast is the single biggest factor in how people judge movie picture quality on average.



As to those posts, yes, those are indeed the ones I was thinking of when I mentioned ANSI vs ON/OFF:



"Black screen 0IRE (black), on /off (black white) contrast is at least 2 times higher with the 3800/7100 (appr. 475:1 vs 1.200:1), used equipment HCFR, Spyder4.


But with more bright content in the pictures the Ansi contrast performance gets more and more simular. Also the black level is appr. equal (also in live view)."


I was glad to see Gregory's review confirm not only that there was a measurable difference in contrast but also that there was a notable visible difference, even if the degree of difference might be more subjective and dependent on the screen and room.



Yes, it definitely depends on content, with my current projector some type of shows that are mostly bright scenes, like travel or documentary shows, look great, while shows or movies with a lot of night scenes really show the lack of shadow detail and the grey black floor.



It's somewhat subjective and up to taste as well, some people claim not to care about one or more of: shadow detail, black levels, black floor, dark scene performance, etc.


I can't understand it because to me contrast and "inky" blacks are somehow the most pleasing and engrossing aspects of the image, and I care about them more than other characteristics such as sharpness or color accuracy (within reason).


If I were to buy one of these projectors, I couldn't resist getting the 3800/7100 over the more economical model for that reason, and I'd be willing to pay the extra, assuming there wasn't something better at the same price.
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post #573 of 597 Old 02-08-2020, 09:51 AM
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Any thoughts or information on the HC3200 over the HC3800? I found a pretty good deal on one. Would the contrast difference really be that substantial? Reviews for both have been positive. Thanks!
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post #574 of 597 Old 02-08-2020, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by fletchuavdrvr View Post
Any thoughts or information on the HC3200 over the HC3800? I found a pretty good deal on one. Would the contrast difference really be that substantial? Reviews for both have been positive. Thanks!
Go back up to post 572 and follow the links Aaronman provided for a direct comparison between the two. I for one like the added contrast...black level gained with the 3800 having come from a 3700.
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post #575 of 597 Old 02-08-2020, 11:43 PM
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What about HC3800 vs. UHD51 or W3550?
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post #576 of 597 Old 02-10-2020, 08:02 AM
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this are the measured differences for the 2150 (TW-5650) and 3200 (TW7000) from passionhomecinema... i don't think it is worth to upgrade from an 2150 to the 3200...

by the way, the 2150 also accepts 4k signals up to 30hz and displays a beautiful image




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post #577 of 597 Old 02-10-2020, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by rikioh View Post
this are the measured differences for the 2150 (TW-5650) and 3200 (TW7000) from passionhomecinema... i don't think it is worth to upgrade from an 2150 to the 3200...

by the way, the 2150 also accepts 4k signals up to 30hz and displays a beautiful image
The dynamic contrast is higher on the HC3200.

Can't find any source that the HC2150 can accept a 4K signal. What is the source for this information?

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https://files.support.epson.com/docid/cpd5/cpd53843.pdf
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post #578 of 597 Old 02-10-2020, 12:30 PM
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(...)Can't find any source that the HC2150 can accept a 4K signal. What is the source for this information?
I am owning and using a TW5650 probably 2150 in US.
But unfortunately my 2150/5650 projector does not have an e-shifting device, but he likes downscaled 4K content.
I like him too.
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post #579 of 597 Old 02-10-2020, 01:18 PM
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@noob00224

i have tried it... but i think you need one of the newer firmwares...

with 4k source, the projector is very sharp and i don't think there is too much of a difference to the lcd shifting models
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post #580 of 597 Old 02-17-2020, 01:25 PM
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Folks - very dissatisfied. See picture. It seems washed out. Can someone help with optimal settings for netflix?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by genaccmiller View Post
Folks - very dissatisfied. See picture. It seems washed out. Can someone help with optimal settings for netflix?

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Not helpful sarcastic answer:
Try turning the lights off in the room


More honest attempt:
I'd consider returning that one
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post #582 of 597 Old 02-17-2020, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawkmarket View Post
Not helpful sarcastic answer:
Try turning the lights off in the room


More honest attempt:
I'd consider returning that one
I am outside the return window. Bought in November 2019.

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The most optimal projector settings ever created can't offset the washout of improperly managed ambient light. The level of washout in the image above suggests there may be unrealistic expectations for that projector and screen in those ambient light conditions.
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post #584 of 597 Old 02-17-2020, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
The most optimal projector settings ever created can't offset the washout of improperly managed ambient light. The level of washout in the image above suggests there may be unrealistic expectations for that projector and screen in those ambient light conditions.
To be clear the picture posted had some ambient light in the room because it was daytime and I have one window. At night time the room becomes completely dark. I could post a picture then and see if you still think the same.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by genaccmiller View Post
Folks - very dissatisfied. See picture. It seems washed out. Can someone help with optimal settings for netflix?

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I have a TW7000 (HC 3200) and the PQ from Netflix is great, nothing to do with the pic you posted. Which is your source for Netflix, Fire TV maybe?

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post #586 of 597 Old 02-17-2020, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Deckard71 View Post
I have a TW7000 (HC 3200) and the PQ from Netflix is great, nothing to do with the pic you posted. Which is your source for Netflix, Fire TV maybe?
Panasonic uhd420 player. To be fair the above picture was posted with some ambient light in the room at daytime. I will post a night time picture too.

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Originally Posted by genaccmiller View Post
To be clear the picture posted had some ambient light in the room because it was daytime and I have one window. At night time the room becomes completely dark. I could post a picture then and see if you still think the same.
Obviously I wouldn't think the same with the ambient light removed. If you're satisfied with the image at night when the room is completely dark but dissatisfied with the image in the daytime with light coming through the window the issue is with the daytime light coming through the window and washing out the image. Reduce the light coming through the window in the daytime to reduce washout.
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post #588 of 597 Old 02-17-2020, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Obviously I wouldn't think the same with the ambient light removed. If you're satisfied with the image at night when the room is completely dark but dissatisfied with the image in the daytime with light coming through the window the issue is with the daytime light coming through the window and washing out the image. Reduce the light coming through the window in the daytime to reduce washout.
No I am not happy with the image at night. That's the point I am making about posting a picture at night. The attached are pictures when room is pitch black. I have also posted settings. What settings to tweak would you recommend?

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post #589 of 597 Old 02-17-2020, 07:03 PM
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Yeah, the badly washed out daytime image was confusing if the night image is the issue. Hopefully others who own that projector can help you optimize the settings.
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post #590 of 597 Old 02-18-2020, 01:20 PM
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Going into Netflix and finding the show in question (above), I have observations. Feeding the projector via the cable box's 1080p and via the player at 4K, the color/image is noticeably better with the player even with the show being shot in sitcom format. There is more color pop.

So here is what I suggest. Reset to factory settings and get a calibration disk with a blue filter. Dial in Natural and Cinema in eco (and others modes/light outputs if you use them) in terms of contrast/brightness and using the filter color saturation/tint. Do this for both color settings 709 and 2020. Use the memory settings (you have up to ten) for this function and switch between settings as needed keeping in mind along with the memory you also have to switch between 709 and 2020 to match the memory selected. Will this work for all content? For us it does since I can almost always find one that looks good... not 100% since some director's seem to use "filters" in the filming process for artistic reasons.

Keep it simple and stay away from the advanced settings beyond brightness/contrast/tint/color saturation unless you are comfortable with using the advanced settings. I'm not as I learned several projectors ago.

(Note: I just noticed I forgot to turn the auto iris back on. After the failure of my HC3700's iris, I only use it come movie nights/days when I will not be fast forwarding through commercials.)

So Netflix in 1080p and projector up-scaled:



And player up-scaled 4k:

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post #591 of 597 Old 02-18-2020, 01:43 PM
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I would also like to point out that the 3800 when fed a true 4K signal via streaming the image is stunning even on my less than perfect setup. At this point I could never go back to a 1080p projector.





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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1106 View Post

So here is what I suggest. Reset to factory settings and get a calibration disk with a blue filter.

Wait, what? I have been searching how to apply a color filter (blue or red) but the Epson, unlike my OLED TV, does not have any color filter built in. How do you apply a blue filter??

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post #593 of 597 Old 02-19-2020, 06:31 PM
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Wait, what? I have been searching how to apply a color filter (blue or red) but the Epson, unlike my OLED TV, does not have any color filter built in. How do you apply a blue filter??
Referring to the old HD Disney Wow calibration disk's included blue filter for dialing in color/tint by holding the "filter" up to an eye. The new disk kits do not typically include "blue filters" for OLED/4K/HDR but since the Epson HC3800 is native 1080p with faux 4K/HDR the filter is still works for me.

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post #594 of 597 Old 02-20-2020, 07:21 AM
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Can someone tell me what is the correct lumen mesurement of the Epson TW7100 on Natural preset in Eco mode?
Projectorcental.com and passionhomecinema.fr show large difference in the lumen measurement for TW7100 in their reviews which confusing...
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post #595 of 597 Old 02-20-2020, 11:06 PM
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Can someone tell me what is the correct lumen mesurement of the Epson TW7100 on Natural preset in Eco mode?
Projectorcental.com and passionhomecinema.fr show large difference in the lumen measurement for TW7100 in their reviews which confusing...
Just look at the difference-
Passionhomecinema.fr
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1582264968

Projectorcentral.com
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1582264970
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post #596 of 597 Old 02-21-2020, 12:34 AM
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In regards to the color space switching is it not possible to get it to do automatically? The Shield can switch in regards to source will the Epson not do the same?
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post #597 of 597 Old Today, 05:54 AM
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Recently purchased and setup 3800. New to projectors so any tips on calibration? This projects on a 120” screen (painted on wall AZ silver grey ....will get a screen later as I have young kids) from about 15’.

Currently have an Apple TV 4K and xbox one s hooked up to it.

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