Epson HC 3200 and 3800 revealed - Page 24 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #691 of 724 Old 05-20-2020, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
The 5000 is next level in terms of picture quality, especially black level. Unfortunately unless you can get a 5050UB, the 5040 has the 10GB HDMI limitation and HDR tone mapping is not great.

There are ways to get around the 10GB limitation (with some banding as a result), as well as getting a better HDR tone mapper. Not sure how familiar you are with both enhancements.
I understand about the 10GB limitation and that the 5050 and 6050 are 18GB and and that's better for 4K, but I don't know a anything about HDR tone mapping. I need to read up on it. Right now I am not in a hurry to buy and if I was to go with a scope screen I would lean towards the something like the 4010 to 6050 depending on what deal I could get. I am staying with my 120" 16:9 screen or go a little bigger I am leaning towards the 3800 or what be nice is a Sony 295ES.

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post #692 of 724 Old 05-20-2020, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
I understand about the 10GB limitation and that the 5050 and 6050 are 18GB and and that's better for 4K, but I don't know a anything about HDR tone mapping. I need to read up on it. Right now I am not in a hurry to buy and if I was to go with a scope screen I would lean towards the something like the 4010 to 6050 depending on what deal I could get. I am staying with my 120" 16:9 screen or go a little bigger I am leaning towards the 3800 or what be nice is a Sony 295ES.
I have the 3800 and am happy with it.

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post #693 of 724 Old 05-20-2020, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Trapani View Post
It's retarded bright

Here is Epson VS UHD50x with windows open. Probably the biggest selling point of 3LCD. Colors are retarded bright and even opening my window the epson is fighting the sun itself

Excuse how ghetto my mount is too please, lol. I'm going to come up with something much more permanent but I needed to get a comparison rig setup before I return one of them

Like a lot of you guys I wanted to compare this to the latest and greatest DLP tech. Just thought I'd show you how well (second pic) the 3800 fights sunlight
That's a big difference. My theater is light controlled and sunlight won't be an issue in my situation. I tried to get my wife to let me set up our home theater in our living room, but she said no even though I have a way to hide the projector above us in the ceiling and all the wires. We do have a 4K Sony TV and 5.1 in our living room.

My thinking is coming from an Epson 2040 1080p proctor to a 3800 would be a big enough step up until real 4K comes down and I could go to a 150+ 16:9 screen since I do watch a lot of sports TV in my theater. It's probably 60/40 viewing for TV and sports to Movies, but lately with everything going it as been more movies.

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post #694 of 724 Old 05-20-2020, 12:49 PM
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I know there is and art to projector/screen placement to yield best results in conjunction with head height. How high above my 120” screen should my Epson 3800 be placed? Projector will not be ceiling mounted and is roughly 12 1/2 feet away from screen.


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post #695 of 724 Old 05-20-2020, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensingtonwick View Post
I know there is and art to projector/screen placement to yield best results in conjunction with head height. How high above my 120” screen should my Epson 3800 be placed? Projector will not be ceiling mounted and is roughly 12 1/2 feet away from screen.
In my experience from this same distance to the screen, the vertical lens shift on the 3800 works extremely well, without any detectable distortion. I think you should allow other factors, like aesthetics or distance (to reduce the impact of fan noise), to drive your decision.
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post #696 of 724 Old 05-20-2020, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensingtonwick View Post
I know there is and art to projector/screen placement to yield best results in conjunction with head height. How high above my 120” screen should my Epson 3800 be placed? Projector will not be ceiling mounted and is roughly 12 1/2 feet away from screen.


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If you're getting an ALR screen better not to have the incident angle too big, since angular ALRs are like mirrors. When calculating the angle of lens to screen to viewer, the viewer's position should be above where the light bounces back.

There have been issues with when using too much lens shift with the HC3800, YMMV.
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post #697 of 724 Old 05-20-2020, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
If you're getting an ALR screen better not to have the incident angle too big, since angular ALRs are like mirrors. When calculating the angle of lens to screen to viewer, the viewer's position should be above where the light bounces back.

There have been issues with when using too much lens shift with the HC3800, YMMV.

Instead of using vertical lens shift can I raise the back of the projector to point in a downwards position to mitigate undesired effects like you’ve mentioned?


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post #698 of 724 Old 05-20-2020, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by kensingtonwick View Post
Instead of using vertical lens shift can I raise the back of the projector to point in a downwards position to mitigate undesired effects like you’ve mentioned?


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That would result in a trapezoidal image, so requiring using keystone which is software. Keystone is worse than lens shift.

Try lens shift and see if there are any issues.
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post #699 of 724 Old 05-20-2020, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
That would result in a trapezoidal image, so requiring using keystone which is software. Keystone is worse than lens shift.

Try lens shift and see if there are any issues.

Okay. Well screen isn’t even mounted yet and is resting on an angle and still looks really good so I’m sure I’ll be happy with any result lol. I think there is some hot spotting but it honestly doesn’t bother me.


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post #700 of 724 Old 05-21-2020, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensingtonwick View Post
Okay. Well screen isn’t even mounted yet and is resting on an angle and still looks really good so I’m sure I’ll be happy with any result lol. I think there is some hot spotting but it honestly doesn’t bother me.


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Is that Cannonball Run?
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post #701 of 724 Old 05-21-2020, 06:08 PM
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Is that Cannonball Run?

Hell yes lol. A classic!


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post #702 of 724 Old 05-22-2020, 11:24 AM
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Does the 3800 support 4:4:4 chroma? Trying to look on internets and cannot find info.


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post #703 of 724 Old 05-22-2020, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensingtonwick View Post
Does the 3800 support 4:4:4 chroma? Trying to look on internets and cannot find info.


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It should but it looks like it's hungry for a full signal to be fed with. See the asterisk*

https://files.support.epson.com/docid/cpd5/cpd57551.pdf
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post #704 of 724 Old 05-22-2020, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Trapani View Post
It should but it looks like it's hungry for a full signal to be fed with. See the asterisk*

https://files.support.epson.com/docid/cpd5/cpd57551.pdf

Why the asterisk?


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post #705 of 724 Old 05-22-2020, 07:02 PM
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Why the asterisk?


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From what I read, it's a limitation of HDMI itself and not the physical projection or display device.

I could be wrong but I feel like this is a general rule for displays other than special purpose. My UHD50x does not do over 4:2:2 for this type of HDR 4k signal either

If it was full 4:4:4 from what I understand it would be some sort of unicorn device that provided it and movies themselves at the higher bitrate wouldn't even provide colors in it.

I'm sure someone who has a much better understanding can give a more thorough conceptual overview though... It's chroma vs bitrate but I don't see the machines in general doing it

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post #706 of 724 Old 05-22-2020, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapani View Post
From what I read, it's a limitation of HDMI itself and not the physical projection or display device.

I could be wrong but I feel like this is a general rule for displays other than special purpose. My UHD50x does not do over 4:2:2 for this type of HDR 4k signal either

If it was full 4:4:4 from what I understand it would be some sort of unicorn device that provided it and movies themselves at the higher bitrate wouldn't even provide colors in it.

I'm sure someone who has a much better understanding can give a more thorough conceptual overview though... It's chroma vs bitrate but I don't see the machines in general doing it
4K 60hz runs into the 18gbps limit:


https://community.cedia.net/blogs/da...tes-for-4k-hdr
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post #707 of 724 Old 05-23-2020, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by kensingtonwick View Post
Had the privilege of obtaining this Dark Energy Pulsar 1.2 brand new through an AVS member to couple with my HC3800 and I must say....the ALR is absolutely remarkable! Contrast doesn’t even bat an eye with bright non-direct lighting. Hopefully this video is in 1080p. https://youtu.be/JSEirQtwyfE

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great..... thanks for uploading the video. It looks fine with ambient lights on, especially for sports parties! Also, the contrast in a dark setup appears to be almost similar to the 5050 series.
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post #708 of 724 Old 05-23-2020, 12:38 PM
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Screen shots of the 3800 comparing 2K and 4K HDR material

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I'll get some new pics with the 3800 during the day this weekend.
As promised I have some screen shots of the 3800 and my Silver Fire 2.1 screen on my screen build thread at the link below...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...l#post59696722
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post #709 of 724 Old 05-24-2020, 09:41 AM
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great..... thanks for uploading the video. It looks fine with ambient lights on, especially for sports parties! Also, the contrast in a dark setup appears to be almost similar to the 5050 series.

Thanks. I’m really happy with the screen/projector combo. Can only imagine how this screen would look with the 5050.


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post #710 of 724 Old 05-24-2020, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapani View Post
From what I read, it's a limitation of HDMI itself and not the physical projection or display device.

I could be wrong but I feel like this is a general rule for displays other than special purpose. My UHD50x does not do over 4:2:2 for this type of HDR 4k signal either

If it was full 4:4:4 from what I understand it would be some sort of unicorn device that provided it and movies themselves at the higher bitrate wouldn't even provide colors in it.

I'm sure someone who has a much better understanding can give a more thorough conceptual overview though... It's chroma vs bitrate but I don't see the machines in general doing it

I ended up finding the specifications. Thank you


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post #711 of 724 Old 05-25-2020, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapani View Post
It should but it looks like it's hungry for a full signal to be fed with. See the asterisk*

https://files.support.epson.com/docid/cpd5/cpd57551.pdf

Sorry I should’ve responded with this earlier. I Purchased an HDMI splitter for the sole purpose of ARC via optical. So I’m just wondering from the people who really know their technical specs if this device is going to somehow cap colour volume or be a hindrance in any way to the capabilities of my 3800. I will have to double post to send two pictures as I am not VIP.


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post #712 of 724 Old 05-25-2020, 07:14 AM
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Sorry I should’ve responded with this earlier. I Purchased an HDMI splitter for the sole purpose of ARC via optical. So I’m just wondering from the people who really know their technical specs if this device is going to somehow cap colour volume or be a hindrance in any way to the capabilities of my 3800. I will have to double post to send two pictures as I am not VIP.


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post #713 of 724 Old 05-25-2020, 10:44 AM
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I did not see any personal losses with mine although what I did was specifically use a splitter and not a switch.

You're creating an audio channel so that little dude is actually doing some math with your signal... IMO it's a lot of trust

My marantz SR6012 is the switch for me and those will also create your Optical channel. I'm a big fan of optical too.

Again humble opinion but a rule my dad always taught me was the "tuner" as he called it

Is basically this thing that you're OBLIGED to have to buy the newest and they only last you about 3 years (because of signals and channels changing)

So his advice to me was always firmly invest in a solid AVR to pair with your TV... The TV will probably last through two of them in its life

That's my advice to you. Maybe pick it up but for something as nice as this Epson, pair it with a quality AVR to split that signal and do your chores.


I'm like you in that I don't 100% trust Amazon for "quality HDMI stuff" that the vendors get on facebook and send people free samples of to boost ratings

You've probably been doing this a long time but IMO Onkyo & Marantz make the hardest hitting sound equipment

They are both Japanese too so the CEC on that Epson will Arigato with the AVR/Tuner when you plug it in... Meaning the epson sees the Japanese switch and then figures out how to control it over the HDMI CEC.
I feel like Epson intended this style of connection due to their extensive implementation of that CEC

It's so extensive that the on button on your remote turns on the AVR, which can even turn on a playstation, which is impressive because the PS doesn't even have an IR remote.
Off again sends signal to the AVR which will arigato and turn off all the other equipment

It does it all from the Epson remote too... So if you have the CEC that means your AX800 uhd-ray player (which is also japanese) will arigato with the AVR and then the remote

Pause on the TV Remote == pause on the epson remote
Sound up and down on AVR == Sound up and down on epson remote

Sorry for my babbling but PLEASE look into a full blown AVR so you can do all this other cool stuff.

If you set it up this way then the Epson remote turns into that big batwing remote we all used to have back in the laserdisc days so it threw me for a home theater nerd loop there

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post #714 of 724 Old 05-26-2020, 01:04 PM
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Bought a 3800 to replace my 3700 (no OEM lamps available yet to buy!). A few thoughts:

  • Great image quality on Natural out of the box (but clearly does not have the wider color gamut as Cinema)
  • Fan noise on High, while still not ideal, is not nearly as loud as on the 3700. I'm breaking in the first 100 hours on High Lamp, and fan noise isn't as much of a factor as I was anticipating
  • Cinema mode, especially when using HDR, definitely has a problem with most flesh tones looking sunburned...not sure how easily this can be fixed without proper calibration gear
  • Overall great purchase, really nice to just "hot swap" out the old 3700
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post #715 of 724 Old 05-27-2020, 02:29 PM
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Just to follow up on this, I went with a 65" LG C9 OLED instead of the HC3800 and you were absolutely right. The image is far better suited to my needs day and night. Thank you!
Just curious, did you buy the projector, decided it wasn't good and returned it, or did you just buy the TV instead?
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How easy is it to disassemble the 3800 to get rid of dust blobs?
Is the 3d performance comparable with dlps? It's active so I guess no resolution loss in 3d?
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How easy is it to disassemble the 3800 to get rid of dust blobs?
Is the 3d performance comparable with dlps? It's active so I guess no resolution loss in 3d?
It depends on how good you are with electronics. But it's not a simple operation. Epson or another store might be able to clean it for you for a fee after the warranty runs out, not sure what the cost would be.

3LCD is susceptible to ghosting, but it can be reduced:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post59561392

3D benefits from 3LCD due it's higher brightness.

So how large is your screen, if you have one? And what fabric?

If you don't have one, what's the seating distance?
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post #718 of 724 Old Today, 06:27 AM
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Thank you for your reply.
I recently opened up my dying lg pa70g. So as long as there is no glue removal or soldering involved I'm good to go. The other question is if I'm willing to void warranty after the first blobs appear. Which would be very likely to be done within a couple of hundred hours. Coming from a solid state projector I'm definitely not willing to let it serviced regularly. And then there's the lamp flickering problem. Are there reports after how many hours of usage this problem can appear? This is completely resolved by replacing the lamp?
I've once had a uhp based projector and the bad luck of two lamps burning out after just a couple of hundred hours. This is about 10 years ago. Has the technology changed since then? Or could this happen with the epson too?
OK so ghosting is a thing.
I would love to have such a nice black level but I guess there's too much hassle.
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post #719 of 724 Old Today, 07:27 AM
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Thank you for your reply.
I recently opened up my dying lg pa70g. So as long as there is no glue removal or soldering involved I'm good to go. The other question is if I'm willing to void warranty after the first blobs appear. Which would be very likely to be done within a couple of hundred hours. Coming from a solid state projector I'm definitely not willing to let it serviced regularly. And then there's the lamp flickering problem. Are there reports after how many hours of usage this problem can appear? This is completely resolved by replacing the lamp?
I've once had a uhp based projector and the bad luck of two lamps burning out after just a couple of hundred hours. This is about 10 years ago. Has the technology changed since then? Or could this happen with the epson too?
OK so ghosting is a thing.
I would love to have such a nice black level but I guess there's too much hassle.
But what's the size of your screen and fabric? This is the reason for the increased brightness with an Epson.

Lamps often flicker, can be fixed by keeping them on Full lamp for the first 100h and every now and then. Non UHP lamps are not mature, generally speaking. The flickering is mostly due to the lamp:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post57363110

It's extremely rare that lamps would burn out too soon. Lamps have different warranty than the projector, depends on the manufacturer/seller.

If the screen is more than 100-110" (white 1.0) there are brighter projectors for 3D, like the GT1090HDR, HZ39HDR, ZH506/506ST, Viewsonic LS800WU.



You have to decide what the priorities are, or get a dual projector with a separate unit for 3D.
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
But what's the size of your screen and fabric? This is the reason for the increased brightness with an Epson.
about 150''. polished/flattened stone surface. white painted during winter to have an even surface without transitions.
due to blending in (living room) theres no frame. thats why black level and contrast is very important to me.

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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Lamps often flicker, can be fixed by keeping them on Full lamp for the first 100h and every now and then. Non UHP lamps are not mature, generally speaking. The flickering is mostly due to the lamp:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post57363110
i would not agree with that statement. there are very good led and hld options. sadly the x12000h is huuuuuge and not very living room compatible
tried laser and couldnt overcome the pronounced rbe.

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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
It's extremely rare that lamps would burn out too soon. Lamps have different warranty than the projector, depends on the manufacturer/seller.
guess i had bad luck or the ventilation was insufficient.
yeah about no warranty. i mean couple of hundreds hours guaranteed is a joke.

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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
If the screen is more than 100-110" (white 1.0) there are brighter projectors for 3D, like the GT1090HDR, HZ39HDR, ZH506/506ST, Viewsonic LS800WU.
they all drop out because of laser/phosphor and the need of a color wheel which leads to pronounced rainbows.

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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
You have to decide what the priorities are, or get a dual projector with a separate unit for 3D.
dual projector is no option. neither regarding stance nor blending in living room.
the x100-4k from viewsonic is two months away. will be hard to overcome this time without movies. i hope the wait will be worth it
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