Epson HC 3200 and 3800 revealed - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 285 Old 10-22-2019, 03:54 PM
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Getting set up for comparison...



- Jason
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HT = Epson HC3800 - BenQ HT3550 - Sony HW45ES @133" / Marantz SR6013 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" x2 / CV 15" / Panasonic UB820
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post #62 of 285 Old 10-22-2019, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post
Getting set up for comparison...



- Jason

Cant wait
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post #63 of 285 Old 10-22-2019, 04:29 PM
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Looking forward to hearing your comparisons.
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post #64 of 285 Old 10-22-2019, 05:26 PM
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Any guesses...

Short video clip (more to come)...

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HT = Epson HC3800 - BenQ HT3550 - Sony HW45ES @133" / Marantz SR6013 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" x2 / CV 15" / Panasonic UB820
Media Room = Sony 65x930e / Denon x3300 /Klipsch speakers /Velodyne subs /Sony x700 /PS4 Pro + PSVR/WiiU/PS3/360/Wii/ 2080 TI - 9900K PC / Multi-Arcade / Virtual Pinball TRE45ON

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post #65 of 285 Old 10-22-2019, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zep33 View Post
The 3800 is my first projector. I honestly had no idea projectors could be this nice. Bought a 120 inch screen and I'm in Heaven. Wish I could just quit my job now and live on my couch.



One thing though that bothered me was a kind of flickering from light to dark, over and over, very subtle but once I noticed it, it bothered me and I couldn't not notice it any more. I played with some settings and made it go away by changing from ECO to Medium. Is that normal and is there a way to use ECO without that side effect?



Thanks

As others have mentioned there are two possible causes: Bulb flicker or possibly it’s an artifact of the dynamic iris.

If it’s bulb flicker (which would explain why it goes away when moving from eco to mid/high power lamp) and it doesn’t go away within 20-30 hours I’d warranty it through epson. If you still see it regardless of lamp power it could be the iris. If it’s the iris your only real solution is to reduce the strength or shut it off completely.
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post #66 of 285 Old 10-22-2019, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post
Any guesses...



Short video clip (more to come)...



https://youtu.be/3soG9IkkW5g


Color temperature seems radically different between those two shots. Any way you might be able to get their pictures a little bit closer to one another?

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post #67 of 285 Old 10-22-2019, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Color temperature seems radically different between those two shots. Any way you might be able to get their pictures a little bit closer to one another?
Neither unit has been calibrated as of yet, this is using, what should be, each units best out of the box presets.

This comparison is just underway, more tweaking will be done in an attempt to equalize the images (as much as possible).

- Jason
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HT = Epson HC3800 - BenQ HT3550 - Sony HW45ES @133" / Marantz SR6013 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" x2 / CV 15" / Panasonic UB820
Media Room = Sony 65x930e / Denon x3300 /Klipsch speakers /Velodyne subs /Sony x700 /PS4 Pro + PSVR/WiiU/PS3/360/Wii/ 2080 TI - 9900K PC / Multi-Arcade / Virtual Pinball TRE45ON
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post #68 of 285 Old 10-22-2019, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post
Any guesses...

Short video clip (more to come)...

https://youtu.be/3soG9IkkW5g
3550 on the left and 3800 on the right?
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post #69 of 285 Old 10-22-2019, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
3550 on the left and 3800 on the right?
Correct, I figured that was going to be pretty obvious.

I now have them more evenly adjusted and the differences can be harder to discern (they trade blows).

More media coming soon...

- This one shows the input lag variance (see how left side is slower to react).



- Jason
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HT = Epson HC3800 - BenQ HT3550 - Sony HW45ES @133" / Marantz SR6013 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" x2 / CV 15" / Panasonic UB820
Media Room = Sony 65x930e / Denon x3300 /Klipsch speakers /Velodyne subs /Sony x700 /PS4 Pro + PSVR/WiiU/PS3/360/Wii/ 2080 TI - 9900K PC / Multi-Arcade / Virtual Pinball TRE45ON

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post #70 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post
Correct, I figured that was going to be pretty obvious.

I now have them more evenly adjusted and the differences can be harder to discern (they trade blows).

More media coming soon...

- This one shows the input lag variance (see how left side is slower to react).

https://youtu.be/3B0jReZWRvk


- Jason
What about a black level comparison between the Sony and the Benq/Epson?
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post #71 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
What about a black level comparison between the Sony and the Benq/Epson?
The native black level of the Sony is well ahead of both the 3550 and the 3800, the 3800 can get really dark but the iris action is detectable.

A full field black (clamp down of the iris) on the 3800 is impressive but you can see it in action, the 3550 appears to have a faster but possibly less aggressive iris (vs the 3800).

Here is an ANSI screenshot of the 3550 vs the 3800...



- Jason
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HT = Epson HC3800 - BenQ HT3550 - Sony HW45ES @133" / Marantz SR6013 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" x2 / CV 15" / Panasonic UB820
Media Room = Sony 65x930e / Denon x3300 /Klipsch speakers /Velodyne subs /Sony x700 /PS4 Pro + PSVR/WiiU/PS3/360/Wii/ 2080 TI - 9900K PC / Multi-Arcade / Virtual Pinball TRE45ON
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post #72 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post
The native black level of the Sony is well ahead of both the 3550 and the 3800, the 3800 can get really dark but the iris action is detectable.

A full field black (clamp down of the iris) on the 3800 is impressive but you can see it in action, the 3550 appears to have a faster but possibly less aggressive iris (vs the 3800).

Here is an ANSI screenshot of the 3550 vs the 3800...



- Jason
133" screen?
What is the type of screen and what are the settings on the HT3550 (lamp, iris, mode, throw range)?

Last edited by noob00224; 10-23-2019 at 01:55 AM.
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post #73 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yossigab View Post
Does it happen always regardless of what shown in the movie or at certain transitions?
If it happens when the scene is changing from general dark scene (night) to white scene (day) or vise-versa, it is the effect of the Dynamic-Iris.
The dynamic-iris will control the amount of light in the image by changing the iris size dynamically during the movie.

Try to disable the dynamic iris in the menus and check the same movie sequence and update us with the results
Thanks for the tips guys. I had been running it on medium for a few days so that may have straightened it out. The flicker is gone now. I thought I had seen it again when I first switched back to ECO so I changed Auto Iris to Normal. It was gone so I turned ECO back on again and it stayed gone. I then put Auto-Iris back to high speed and I'm not seeing any issues at the moment.

To answer someone else's question. It was happening at all times on any source and was much more noticeable when there was any solid color background that stayed the same for a period like the X-Box one menu and the field during a football game. And it was a very subtle light to dark change every few seconds.

Right now, everything looks great

Thanks again
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post #74 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zep33 View Post
Thanks for the tips guys. I had been running it on medium for a few days so that may have straightened it out. The flicker is gone now. I thought I had seen it again when I first switched back to ECO so I changed Auto Iris to Normal. It was gone so I turned ECO back on again and it stayed gone. I then put Auto-Iris back to high speed and I'm not seeing any issues at the moment.

To answer someone else's question. It was happening at all times on any source and was much more noticeable when there was any solid color background that stayed the same for a period like the X-Box one menu and the field during a football game. And it was a very subtle light to dark change every few seconds.

Right now, everything looks great

Thanks again
Since it does not happen now with using the iris sounds like a lamp issue.

To avoid flicker it's recommended the lamp be kept on the highest mode for the first 100h, as well as once in a while during it's lifetime.
https://www.homecinemaguru.com/why-i...or-flickering/
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...b-flicker.html

If the problem manifests itself soon better contact Epson, since the lamp only has a 90-day limited lamp warranty.
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post #75 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraine View Post
I received the TW7100 (HC3800) today, I have already measured its input lag 1080P and 4K, no surprise it's very good at Epson. The full test will arrive in a few days.
Does this mean that this is the fastest 4K projector under $2000 now? The lag seems similar to 5050/6050, which is great news for gamers.
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post #76 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post
Correct, I figured that was going to be pretty obvious.



I now have them more evenly adjusted and the differences can be harder to discern (they trade blows).



More media coming soon...



- This one shows the input lag variance (see how left side is slower to react).



https://youtu.be/3B0jReZWRvk





- Jason
May have missed it but what are you recording with? Just wondering why I'm seeing the horizontal lines on the 3550 but not on the Epson.
My gaming experience on my 3550 has been pretty great.
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post #77 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 09:36 AM
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Last night I continued my unscientific comparison of the Epson 3800 vs the BenQ 3550. I am still torn as to which one I prefer. Below is my running list of notes on each:

Epson 3800
Pros - build quality is excellent, H&V lens shift is very nice, appears brighter on HDR material with Eco bulb, quiet outside of full power, no iris noise, doesn’t seem to throw off as much heat, remote is excellent

Cons - picture doesn’t look as much like a flat screen panel as BenQ, motion doesn’t appear as smooth

BenQ 3550
Pros - very lifelike HDR image, vibrant colors, intuitive menu layout, very sharp image, excellent motion for HD sports

Cons - build quality appears to be below the 3800, noisier unless in ECO mode, less lumen output (particularly with WCG on), remote feels cheap, limited V lens shift, no H lens shift, must trade loudness for lumens in HDR


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #78 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by subacabra View Post
May have missed it but what are you recording with? Just wondering why I'm seeing the horizontal lines on the 3550 but not on the Epson.
My gaming experience on my 3550 has been pretty great.


His camera is picking up the color wheel. Our human eyes won’t pick that up but a camera could. I often have to play with my exposure to make sure pictures don’t show up this way.
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post #79 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
His camera is picking up the color wheel. Our human eyes won’t pick that up but a camera could. I often have to play with my exposure to make sure pictures don’t show up this way.
Same here when I do my videos. Just tough to compare the side by side when you're seeing that lol
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post #80 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilya4min View Post
Does this mean that this is the fastest 4K projector under $2000 now? The lag seems similar to 5050/6050, which is great news for gamers.


I still sort of laugh at referring to these as 4K. After the amount of deliberation that happened on this forum at to whether or not the 4K DLPs should really be considered 4K when they actually produce all 8.3 million pixels of the source— I find it difficult to just call these Epsons 4K when they produce half (around 4.15 million) the pixels of a 4K source image.

To be clear, I think there is real merit to the discussion of the performance differences between 4K projectors that can produce their 4K images natively (LCOS) and those that require pixel shifting (DLP). But these Epsons aren’t even close. What they produce is a 4K simulation. I’m not knocking them— any improvement over HD is worthwhile and depending on your seating distance relative to your screen size and the content you’re watching the difference may not be even be that noticeable. But the Epson produces a pixel count far closer to that of a 1440p display rather than a 4K display and I don’t see anyone advertising 1440p displays as 4K.

Just my observation.
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post #81 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 11:39 AM
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With Epson's 4K PRO-UHD projectors you really have to skip over the marketing terminology and look at the small print in the notes at the bottom of the page to get the full story:

Quote:
4K Enhancement Technology shifts each pixel to achieve double Full HD resolution on screen.


4K is actually quadruple the number of pixels of Full HD resolution, not double. Having said that, most neutral, objective reviewers have said that Epson's pixel shifters produce an image that appears much closer to 4K than 1080p. So it pays to try to see it with your own eyes rather than looking at raw numbers. Double Full HD resolution is enough for some but not for others. And, of course, total projector performance isn't measured by pixel count alone.
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post #82 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
133" screen?
What is the type of screen and what are the settings on the HT3550 (lamp, iris, mode, throw range)?
Yes 133", it's a matte white 1.0 gain (no color shift, no hot spotting). Lamp is on high, iris is on medium or fast, modes used are HDR, D.Cinema (SDR), Vivid TV (gaming), throw is about 13'.

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Originally Posted by ilya4min View Post
Does this mean that this is the fastest 4K projector under $2000 now? The lag seems similar to 5050/6050, which is great news for gamers.
It is the fastest pseudo 4K that I am aware of, I think it's a bit faster than the 5050.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subacabra View Post
May have missed it but what are you recording with? Just wondering why I'm seeing the horizontal lines on the 3550 but not on the Epson.
My gaming experience on my 3550 has been pretty great.
As sage said it's the camera picking up the CW. It's a really nice Panasonic with a 50mm lens shooting at 4K. That video was only intended to show the input lag variance (not compare image quality). The brighter it is the more the camera will pick it up and I think that was in Vivid TV with BC on (to attempt a level playing field regarding lumen output, which is not possible as the 3800 has far more).

* It appears that having BC on makes it much harder to shoot clean video of the 3550 (due to the camera capturing the CW).



Regarding the resolution variance being discussed, it's not as obvious as we might assume. I was expecting the 3550 to have a clear advantage (as it should) but the fact that the 3550 has a lens that simply cannot fully resolve 4K (compared to many other XPR DLP units) it honestly makes the comparison (vs Epson HC3800) much closer.


- Jason

HT = Epson HC3800 - BenQ HT3550 - Sony HW45ES @133" / Marantz SR6013 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" x2 / CV 15" / Panasonic UB820
Media Room = Sony 65x930e / Denon x3300 /Klipsch speakers /Velodyne subs /Sony x700 /PS4 Pro + PSVR/WiiU/PS3/360/Wii/ 2080 TI - 9900K PC / Multi-Arcade / Virtual Pinball TRE45ON

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post #83 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 01:33 PM
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How are you finding the colors on the 3800 since it does not have expanded color gamut? I like my colors to be vibrant and pop, is it possible to tweak the 3800 colors and settings enough to achieve an overall similar look to having expanded color?
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post #84 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post
Yes 133", it's a matte white 1.0 gain (no color shift, no hot spotting). Lamp is on high, iris is on medium or fast, modes used are HDR, D.Cinema (SDR), Vivid TV (gaming), throw is about 13'.

- Jason
What I meant is what is the mode used for the Benq in that ANSI screenshot?
Brilliant Color?

Was the Epson with the same settings, lamp, mode (?),

The Epson seems bright and the Benq a bit dim, is that the impression irl?
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post #85 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
What I meant is what is the mode used for the Benq in that ANSI screenshot?
Brilliant Color?

Was the Epson with the same settings, lamp, mode (?),

The Epson seems bright and the Benq a bit dim, is that the impression irl?


In my case, I have found the Epson to be meaningfully brighter than the BenQ. This is especially true if they are both in eco mode. That being said, the BenQ doesn’t come across as too dim on my 100” ALR screen.


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post #86 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Indy View Post
How are you finding the colors on the 3800 since it does not have expanded color gamut? I like my colors to be vibrant and pop, is it possible to tweak the 3800 colors and settings enough to achieve an overall similar look to having expanded color?
The 3800 has a massive set of adjustments available (much more than the 3550), it has a BT.2020 setting that does a convincing job of tone mapping (when directly compared to the 3550 using the WCG filter). The 3550 has an edge but the colors on the 3800 can certainly 'pop' more than the 3550 due to the brighter image and better contrast (with iris in use).

Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
What I meant is what is the mode used for the Benq in that ANSI screenshot?
Brilliant Color?

Was the Epson with the same settings, lamp, mode (?),

The Epson seems bright and the Benq a bit dim, is that the impression irl?
The 3550 was about as bright as I could properly make it in order to compete with the 3800, BC was on (lamp high/iris on).

The 3800 is on medium lamp with the iris active.

The 3800 is much brighter than the 3550 (as expected).

- Jason
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HT = Epson HC3800 - BenQ HT3550 - Sony HW45ES @133" / Marantz SR6013 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" x2 / CV 15" / Panasonic UB820
Media Room = Sony 65x930e / Denon x3300 /Klipsch speakers /Velodyne subs /Sony x700 /PS4 Pro + PSVR/WiiU/PS3/360/Wii/ 2080 TI - 9900K PC / Multi-Arcade / Virtual Pinball TRE45ON

Last edited by DaGamePimp; 10-23-2019 at 02:42 PM.
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post #87 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 03:06 PM
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A couple quick shots of the two after some balancing...




This shot gives an idea of the contrast difference as the camera is blowing out highlights on the 3800 (obviously the 3800 does not look like that in person regarding the bright lighting, it's just the camera).



- Jason

HT = Epson HC3800 - BenQ HT3550 - Sony HW45ES @133" / Marantz SR6013 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" x2 / CV 15" / Panasonic UB820
Media Room = Sony 65x930e / Denon x3300 /Klipsch speakers /Velodyne subs /Sony x700 /PS4 Pro + PSVR/WiiU/PS3/360/Wii/ 2080 TI - 9900K PC / Multi-Arcade / Virtual Pinball TRE45ON
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post #88 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 04:03 PM
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Has anyone seen the 3200 compared to 3800? I just wonder if there really is much of difference in pq between them.
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post #89 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 05:05 PM
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Thumbs up

Here's a clip of just the HC3800 playing the Costa Rica 4K HDR video (via Panasonic UB820)...

* I'll add more clips to this post as I get them uploaded, it might take a bit for YT to process before 4K is available.


Clip of the LG OLED Sydney video...


- Jason
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HT = Epson HC3800 - BenQ HT3550 - Sony HW45ES @133" / Marantz SR6013 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" x2 / CV 15" / Panasonic UB820
Media Room = Sony 65x930e / Denon x3300 /Klipsch speakers /Velodyne subs /Sony x700 /PS4 Pro + PSVR/WiiU/PS3/360/Wii/ 2080 TI - 9900K PC / Multi-Arcade / Virtual Pinball TRE45ON

Last edited by DaGamePimp; 10-23-2019 at 05:13 PM.
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post #90 of 285 Old 10-23-2019, 06:31 PM
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That looks really good!
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