Epson HC 3200 and 3800 revealed - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 326 Old 09-12-2019, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Epson HC 3200 and 3800 revealed


This is projector I was looking forward to. Hopefully it’s just as bright as my 3700.
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post #2 of 326 Old 09-12-2019, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 326 Old 09-12-2019, 11:05 AM
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Maybe not right at launch, but I'm almost definitely in on one of these once a sale hits or refurbs become available. I've missed my 3000 ever since replacing it with a BenQ TK800 that I received as a review sample. My PJ mounts to a pitched ceiling, so I don't have the space for a monster like a refurb 4000 or 5040ub, so this should be about the best I can do with size limitations. If I get impatient, I'll probably just go with a 3200, but if refurbs hit and prices come down to where the 3100/3700 are now in the next year or so, I'd definitely spring for the 3800.

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As I said in another thread I have a 150" screen in a man cave that I use for 50% sports and 50% movies. I switched a couple years ago from a 5030 to the 3700 and the increase in lumens FAR outweighed the loss of contrast. I'm really interested to see how the 3800 looks in my space. I am curious how they implement the HDR slider compared to the 5050 as well as how similar the lenses are. I said before if there was an e shift version of the 3700 I would be thrilled and here we are.
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post #5 of 326 Old 09-12-2019, 02:51 PM
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Both are 3000 Lumens?

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post #6 of 326 Old 09-13-2019, 07:47 AM
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Epson HC 3600 and 3800 revealed

These look like exciting products and I’m glad to see Epson start to compete with the large number of 4K DLP units in this price range (plus, based on Epson’s history, these should be less than MSRP fairly quickly assuming the tariffs aren’t an issue). But we have got to talk about Epson’s marketing here...

The forum argued for months over whether or not DLP’s XPR pixel shift technology could really be considered ‘4K’ and the DLP solution actually addresses all 8.3 million pixels in a 4K source. The Epson solution results in 4.15 million addressable pixels. I don’t see how they can, in good faith, call this 4K. This is the same 4K ‘simulation’ that the 4010/5050 employ. It’s a good solution— sharper than HD while still preserving a low price point and, for gamers, low input lag. But the marketing is super misleading.

Edit: if I just bought a 4010 I’d be pissed. Lol! These get HDMI 2.0 and the 4010 is still rocking 1.4? Here’s hoping Epson introduces an updated/refreshed 4010 soon.
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post #7 of 326 Old 09-13-2019, 09:41 AM
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The 3200 is 2000 cad in Canada. I hope the 3800 will be between 2200/2300 cad.
No price yet on their site for the 3800.


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post #8 of 326 Old 09-13-2019, 03:46 PM
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The 3200 is 2000 cad in Canada. I hope the 3800 will be between 2200/2300 cad.
No price yet on their site for the 3800.


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The tw7000/HC3600 is available for 1000Euros 23th of sept in stock at my place . But the leap to the tw7100/hc3800 is 700 euros at the moment.. might change though.

I'll wait for the tw7000/HC3600 review until I buy due to 40,000 contrast ratio and from the ytube above they where not impress about the black level of the tw7100/hc3800 that had 100,000 contrast ratio

So hold your horses until @http s://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blog/ or other reviews get's a sample of these projectors.

At the moment my sight is at the tw7000/HC3600
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post #9 of 326 Old 09-13-2019, 09:49 PM
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HC3200, not 3600, right?
The 3800 it is posted on the Epson site, $1799(US).

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post #10 of 326 Old 09-14-2019, 09:18 AM
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Epson's 3000 series updates make a lot of sense considering their last 2000 series updates narrowed the overall performance difference between those two series. Now the gap is narrowed between the 3000 series and 4000/5000/6000 series. Epson really needs to find a cost-effective way to go native 4K on its top consumer model series.
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post #11 of 326 Old 09-14-2019, 05:14 PM
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I’m hoping to get something like a 4K version of the Epson 3100 in the next couple years for under $1,000. This is a step in that direction, but here’s hoping they soon start displaying all the pixels of 4K, not half.
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post #12 of 326 Old 09-15-2019, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Roy G Biv View Post
I’m hoping to get something like a 4K version of the Epson 3100 in the next couple years for under $1,000. This is a step in that direction, but here’s hoping they soon start displaying all the pixels of 4K, not half.


You’re going to be waiting awhile. For the Epson’s to do 4K they would need to design a higher resolution chip. Obviously, a native 4K chip would be an option but the cost would likely be near or higher than the LCOS competition ($5000+). Alternatively they could do what DLP does with their .66 DMD and run a ‘half’ 4K resolution that, when combined with pixel shifting, would result in a full 8.3 million pixels on screen. That solution is not exactly a 1:1 with a 4K source due to the placement of the pixels so some image processing / interpolation is required. But many DLP’s utilizing that chip have received praise for their clarity and sharpness.

3LCD cannot field a product that performs a quad shift to compete with the budget 4K DLP (.47) solution. This is due to LCD’s poor pixel response time. The .47 DMD operates at 240Hz (4 pixels produced for each frame of a 60Hz image). LCD simply doesn’t have the capability to operate at that speed. While there are technically gaming LCD MONITORS that claim to operate at 240Hz with 1ms pixel response which, in theory, would show that LCD was capable of this the truth of the matter is very few of even the best LCD gaming monitors live up to these exaggerated specs. Hell, LG, just make an IPS monitor that advertises 1ms gtg by in reality falls closer to 5ms AND THAT’S ACTUALLY GOOD. The vast majority of LCD displays have north of a 10ms response time.

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post #13 of 326 Old 09-15-2019, 12:41 PM
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DLP, 3LCD and LCoS technologies each have a different set of pros and cons. The projector companies that market these three different technologies all try to emphasize their strong points and minimize their weak points. Each projector shopper has to weigh the pros and cons of each technology and pick the one with the pros that best suit their personal preferences and needs and with the cons they can most easily tolerate. One area where 3LCD excels is in color brightness which is why Epson has focused part of their marketing strategy on bright room light cannons. On the other hand 3LCD has a hard time competing against single chip DLP's inherent image sharpness and motion handling.
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post #14 of 326 Old 09-15-2019, 09:06 PM
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I doubt we will ever see a LCD native 4K consumer projector. Because of the nature of a transmissive panel the supporting electronics need to be between the pixels the underlying reason for the SDE of LCD tech. The panel would need to be close to 4x the physical size of current LCD panels to avoid increasing the SDE and would make the optics way too expensive along with the size of the projector. LCOS with its reflective tech can have the supporting electronics behind the pixels with the smallest pixel gap is the reason why we see native 4K but even the JVC's take a hit on contrast as the gap is still the same with more pixels. DLP is in the middle so again the size of the projector and supporting optics are the restricting factor in native 4K.

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As the biggest projector manufacturer in the world I expect that Epson won't settle for being limited to half as many pixels as its rivals in an increasingly 4K video world. I expect their R&D department is researching various options in search of a technological breakthrough to address current 3LCD pixel limitations.
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post #16 of 326 Old 09-16-2019, 09:27 AM
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Or, maybe they will have to switch to DLP as well.
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post #17 of 326 Old 09-16-2019, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by tibimakai View Post
Or, maybe they will have to switch to DLP as well.
Since Epson already has a huge investment in production facilities for its own LCD panels it would make some sense to go to LCoS to achieve native 4K on their higher end models if they can't come up with a way to achieve native 4K (or even pixel shifting 4K) with LCD panels alone.
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post #18 of 326 Old 09-16-2019, 10:24 AM
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Since Epson already has a huge investment in production facilities for its own LCD panels it would make some sense to go to LCoS to achieve native 4K on their higher end models if they can't come up with a way to achieve native 4K (or even pixel shifting 4K) with LCD panels alone.


They actually sell an LCOS right now— the Pro Cinema LS10500 “reflective laser” projector. But it is a similar 1080p X2 solution that they use in the rest of their lineup.

I have no idea what the technical hurdles might be towards getting affordable 4K or 4K pixel shift 3LCDs to market might be. All I know is LCD and LCD based tech all have this similar limitation in pixel response time that makes a quad shift impossible. I gotta believe they’re looking into it.. A lot of people were expecting a native 4K announcement this past summer. Hell, a lot of people think they sell a native 4K model now because Epson’s marketing is super misleading on this.
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post #19 of 326 Old 09-19-2019, 01:20 AM
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Can't find any user reviews on this pj yet.

But I found that you can get 35% discount of the eh-tw7000/7100 if you order from Epson Germany

epson.de/store with the IFA2019 code

So eh-tw7000 will be for 850Euros and eh-tw7100 for 1100 Euros

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post #20 of 326 Old 09-19-2019, 03:38 AM
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But I found that you can get 35% discount of the eh-tw7000/7100 if you order from Epson Germany
Yes, but they'll not ship outside Germany or Austria.
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post #21 of 326 Old 09-21-2019, 02:08 PM
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They will be released in October, no? So, nobody has one yet.

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post #22 of 326 Old 09-21-2019, 04:00 PM
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In Europe they’re already on sale on Epson site
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post #23 of 326 Old 09-23-2019, 01:38 PM
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!!!

I was wondering when this would happen. I bought a 3700 last month when Best Buy had them at $900, and I am pleased with the purchase. Currently I don't have the budget to spend nearly double for the 3800, nor did I want to go down the slippery slope that is 4k equipment upgrades...

I think that if these perform to a high standard they will be a big deal in the <$2k category, the BenQ 3550 has way lower brightness and much less flexible lens adjustment.
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post #24 of 326 Old 09-23-2019, 06:29 PM
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Does someone knows why they remove the price on both on the us site ?

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post #25 of 326 Old 09-24-2019, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
DLP, 3LCD and LCoS technologies each have a different set of pros and cons. The projector companies that market these three different technologies all try to emphasize their strong points and minimize their weak points. Each projector shopper has to weigh the pros and cons of each technology and pick the one with the pros that best suit their personal preferences and needs and with the cons they can most easily tolerate. One area where 3LCD excels is in color brightness which is why Epson has focused part of their marketing strategy on bright room light cannons. On the other hand 3LCD has a hard time competing against single chip DLP's inherent image sharpness and motion handling.
Agreed. I tried two Epsons and a Benq projector. I liked the adjustability and option for brighter image of the Epsons, but ended up going with the BenQ. Because try as I might, I couldn't get same level of sharpness with the Epsons. (And I played around a lot with the various settings and pixel adjustments.) Although I don't think that softness in some areas would matter much for most people, unless like me they are often viewing static images as well. On the other hand, I don't care for the rainbow effect of the BenQ, but now have gotten used to it and don't "see" it much anymore.

So yeah, there is no perfect projector, just try to match needs of the user. I would love someday a low cost LED DLP projector that does away with rainbow effect, that would be my dream machine.
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post #26 of 326 Old 09-24-2019, 10:11 AM
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... I would love someday a low cost LED DLP projector that does away with rainbow effect, that would be my dream machine.
We're headed that way. There are already DLP projectors with individual RGB LEDs (and lasers) that don't require a color wheel. Cost will continue to come down even as performance goes up.
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post #27 of 326 Old 09-24-2019, 10:21 AM
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Agreed. I tried two Epsons and a Benq projector. I liked the adjustability and option for brighter image of the Epsons, but ended up going with the BenQ. Because try as I might, I couldn't get same level of sharpness with the Epsons. (And I played around a lot with the various settings and pixel adjustments.) Although I don't think that softness in some areas would matter much for most people, unless like me they are often viewing static images as well. On the other hand, I don't care for the rainbow effect of the BenQ, but now have gotten used to it and don't "see" it much anymore.



So yeah, there is no perfect projector, just try to match needs of the user. I would love someday a low cost LED DLP projector that does away with rainbow effect, that would be my dream machine.


Lack of color wheel does not mean a lack of RBE, unfortunately. Any single chip DLP can be susceptible to RBE artifacts because color is still created sequentially. Whether that means a lamp passed through a color wheel or three rapidly flashing LEDs the basic principle is the same. It really depends on the projector itself and how it’s engineered.

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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Lack of color wheel does not mean a lack of RBE, unfortunately. Any single chip DLP can be susceptible to RBE artifacts because color is still created sequentially. Whether that means a lamp passed through a color wheel or three rapidly flashing LEDs the basic principle is the same. It really depends on the projector itself and how it’s engineered.
Yep, I learned that with my prior projector, the LG LED pa70g. It had some rainbow effect. Still that was a very nice projector for me at the time, because it met one key basic need: It survived kids who used/abused it, turning the unit on/off all the time, and racking up mega hours.

Now they are older and (somewhat) more responsible, I have the BenQ HT2050a. Big step up in resolution/brightness/clarity. Although the other night, I found the BenQ left on, even though my son thought he hit the off button. Hoping the bulb lasts - been a year going strong - knock on wood.
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post #29 of 326 Old 09-24-2019, 01:26 PM
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Epson HC 3600 and 3800 revealed

Quote:
Originally Posted by indio22 View Post
Yep, I learned that with my prior projector, the LG LED pa70g. It had some rainbow effect. Still that was a very nice projector for me at the time, because it met one key basic need: It survived kids who used/abused it, turning the unit on/off all the time, and racking up mega hours.



Now they are older and (somewhat) more responsible, I have the BenQ HT2050a. Big step up in resolution/brightness/clarity. Although the other night, I found the BenQ left on, even though my son thought he hit the off button. Hoping the bulb lasts - been a year going strong - knock on wood.

The BenQ HT2050a has an Auto Off feature that, when enabled, will shut off the projector automatically when no signal has been detected for a predetermined amount of time. I’d recommend activating that.
In addition, lamp intervals have improved considerably in the last couple of years. With the exception of maybe JVC, lamps are generally not TOO expensive to replace. Couple hundred bucks at the worst.

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post #30 of 326 Old 09-24-2019, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Lack of color wheel does not mean a lack of RBE, unfortunately. Any single chip DLP can be susceptible to RBE artifacts because color is still created sequentially. Whether that means a lamp passed through a color wheel or three rapidly flashing LEDs the basic principle is the same. It really depends on the projector itself and how it’s engineered.
Of course rainbow resistance depends on the sequential flashing speed of the solid state lamps, just as it depends on the speed of the color wheel. By most accounts many of the early solid state RGB projectors were at least comparable to RGBRGB color wheel models and some have been rated better. As solid state RGB projector technology continues to advance there is potential for even greater rainbow resistance. Not sure if any of the companies producing color wheel projectors have any potential improvements in the R&D pipeline. But longterm I'd expect the edge to go to solid state RGB.
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