LG HU70LA 4K UHD Laser Smart Home Theater CineBeam Projector - Page 11 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #301 of 337 Old 01-13-2020, 04:08 AM
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ALR first choice, on it mate.

Will keep you posted when I receive samples and will test them, sharing results in here.

Cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Paint number one.
ALR number two.

Second video:
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ontrast+screen
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post #302 of 337 Old 01-14-2020, 08:43 AM
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Hi all,

Found out HU70LA support HLG HDR accidentally.


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post #303 of 337 Old 01-14-2020, 04:03 PM
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@noob00224

what do you think about this ALR 1.5 gain canvas?
https://cine-screen.fr/produit/toile-technique-blanche-de-projection-pour-ecran-videoprojecteur-alr-1-5-ambient-light-rejecting-rejet-de-lumiere-ambiante-sur-mesure/

Maybe mounted on a normal 120" frame could do
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post #304 of 337 Old 01-14-2020, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gae80uk View Post
@noob00224

what do you think about this ALR 1.5 gain canvas?
https://cine-screen.fr/produit/toile...te-sur-mesure/

Maybe mounted on a normal 120" frame could do
Haven't heard of the fabric.
The fabric claims 1.2 gain, 100 degrees viewing angle, and no hotspot. Any ALR can have a hotspot. As I mentioned in a previous post, it's less to do with the quality of the fabric and even the gain and other characteristics, and more to do with the technology, of how angular ALR works.

The optical coating is used to increase the reflectivity and hence the brightness of the image, so it doesn't get too dim. The coating also makes the reflective characteristics of the gray screen more mirror-like in it's directionality, so that the projector light is reflected more towards the viewer, less on to the surrounding walls. (If you are facing a white wall and someone shines a fashlight from above your head on an angle at the wall, the white wall will diffuse the light and light will scatter everywhere, lighting up the rest of the room, like a white screen does. Replace the wall with a mirror - now there is no diffusion of the image of the flashlight - what you see reflected is the focused beam of light right into your eyes). In this way, gray screens with optical gain can have a satisfyingly bright image while also helping maintain good contrast if you have some ambient light, or reflective room surfaces.

BUT...there is a trade off. When you add optical coating to make the reflection more mirror-like, you are of necessity focusing the light to a smaller central area of the screen. This results in uneven screen illumination known as "hot-spotting," where - especially apparent if you have a blank white image - you can see the projector beam being focused more in the center of the screen, and the screen dims significantly as you move off center to the edges of the screen. So it's like a mild spot-light effect in terms of brightness.
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post #305 of 337 Old 01-14-2020, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Haven't heard of the fabric.
The fabric claims 1.2 gain, 100 degrees viewing angle, and no hotspot. Any ALR can have a hotspot. As I mentioned in a previous post, it's less to do with the quality of the fabric and even the gain and other characteristics, and more to do with the technology, of how angular ALR works.
It looks like this material performs well at least compared to their previous material, I don't have samples to compare to seymour/si/xy/etc materials. The case and tensioning system looks exactly the same as XYs EC2. If the new design has a similar shade of grey as the .8(it looks lighter in the pictures), has a higher gain while retaining viewing angles and reduced artifacts(in the pictures it looks similar to the bc.8, and the cine-screen 1.3 has more sparkle than the bc.8) I'd definitely consider it, it's just that those attributes tend to contradict each other. But with advanced engineering anythings possible. Look at the parallax, matte, sparkle free, lower minimum throw, and a cost to go with the performance. But still could provide a good option if you want to sacrifice some black level for light output.

https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blo...is-de-gregory/
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post #306 of 337 Old 01-15-2020, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
It looks like this material performs well at least compared to their previous material, I don't have samples to compare to seymour/si/xy/etc materials. The case and tensioning system looks exactly the same as XYs EC2. If the new design has a similar shade of grey as the .8(it looks lighter in the pictures), has a higher gain while retaining viewing angles and reduced artifacts(in the pictures it looks similar to the bc.8, and the cine-screen 1.3 has more sparkle than the bc.8) I'd definitely consider it, it's just that those attributes tend to contradict each other. But with advanced engineering anythings possible. Look at the parallax, matte, sparkle free, lower minimum throw, and a cost to go with the performance. But still could provide a good option if you want to sacrifice some black level for light output.

https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blo...is-de-gregory/
Both projectors used in the test, the Benq W1720 (upgraded HT2250) and Viewsonic PX725HD have a throw of 1.50 - 1.65.
It doesn't say in the review what throw range was used.

So it could have no hotspot? Gae80uk 's throw is 1.47x.
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post #307 of 337 Old 01-15-2020, 01:37 PM
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@bdht thanks for the tips, will check them out.
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post #308 of 337 Old 01-16-2020, 12:46 AM
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@noob00224

first impressions with vividstorm sample ALR 0.8 grey screen

https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/01/16/200116084557569744.jpg

https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/01/16/200116084601253168.jpg

https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/01/16/200116084934766454.jpg

overall feeling is that there is more contrast and black is deeper, much more black than grey...but looks like overall colours and brightness might take a big hit with a full screen like this...:/
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post #309 of 337 Old 01-16-2020, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gae80uk View Post
@noob00224

first impressions with vividstorm sample ALR 0.8 grey screen

https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020...4557569744.jpg

https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020...4601253168.jpg

https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020...4934766454.jpg

overall feeling is that there is more contrast and black is deeper, much more black than grey...but looks like overall colours and brightness might take a big hit with a full screen like this...:/
Sounds like a higher gain is required, but with higher gain comes the increased hotspot.

Have you tried putting the sample in the center of the screen?

Try this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
Since hotspotting is relative to your eyes and the lens, you can have a sample at your screen location, look at it straight on and move off the side and see the illuminance of the material change.
Once you have an idea of the various materials and their requirements, you can just hit a sample with a flashlight and gauge what the recommended throw ratio would be as its entirely how matte the material is.

You might be slowly coming to the conclusion that paint is the best way here.
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post #310 of 337 Old 01-16-2020, 01:21 AM
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@noob00224

During the weekend will try with the center + other 5/6 samples (grey 0.8 to white 1.0+ gain) from XY.

They are quite small to get a proper idea, hopefully it will help to decide gains, colours and materials

Thanks again!
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post #311 of 337 Old 01-16-2020, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gae80uk View Post
but looks like overall colours and brightness might take a big hit with a full screen like this...:/
What, uhh... is that on high lamp? The hu70 puts out about 300-800 lumens, calibrated minimum energy saving around 550-600. What size screen is that and current gain?

https://www.projectorcentral.com/LG-...tor-Review.htm

In direct comparisons like that the lower gain screen needs more light output to hit the same illuminance as your current screen.
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post #312 of 337 Old 01-16-2020, 01:40 AM
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@bdht

It's on minimum energy saving so I guess High Lamp (not sure)? It's a 120" picture at roughly 4 meters far from the wall.

Any suggests?
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post #313 of 337 Old 01-16-2020, 01:45 AM
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@bdht

It's a 0.8 gain grey ALR sample vs white wall on the back
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gae80uk View Post
@bdht

It's on minimum energy saving so I guess High Lamp (not sure)? It's a 120" picture at roughly 4 meters far from the wall.

Any suggests?
Ya thats high lamp. What preset? 600 lumens on the .8 sample is only 11fl, too dark, you wanna shoot for 16-20fl for most sdr content.
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post #315 of 337 Old 01-16-2020, 01:47 AM
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@bdht

the image is set and calibrated on Dark room (Anthony settings)...might need a 1.2+ gain screen right?
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post #316 of 337 Old 01-16-2020, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gae80uk View Post
@bdht

the image is set and calibrated on Dark room (Anthony settings)...might need a 1.2+ gain screen right?
Ya that or drop down to 100"
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post #317 of 337 Old 01-16-2020, 11:43 AM
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@bdht thanks! Better grey or white one?
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post #318 of 337 Old 01-16-2020, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gae80uk View Post
@bdht thanks! Better grey or white one?
Hmm, that projectors contrast ratio is 500:1? Its never going to have any kind of decent black. If you dont want to deal with the impact on uniformity from +gain grey alr screens then you can probably just use a white material.

See how contrast at 5% is fairly similar on both projectors, thats the highest a white room is capable of.
https://i0.wp.com/projectiondream.co...size=798%2C233
https://i0.wp.com/projectiondream.co...ble.png?w=1252

With a native contrast of 500:1 a treated room wont make any difference and neither will a darker screen, as the projector doesnt have the output to shift its contrast down. I.e. say a projector can do 40fl white and 0.08fl black. You could improve that projectors black level by reducing output or shifting contrast with a grey screen down to 20fl white and 0.04fl black. Using alr screens offsets the room though where reducing output from the projrctor doesnt. But if your stock is 20fl theres nowhere to go. So best to shoot instead for a very uniform and artifact free image. I cant suggest a studiotek100 lol or even a seymourav glacial white. Maybe elunevisions fixed frame reference 100, its supposed to be very matte and texture/artifact free. My general experience with the base white materials like elites cinewhite, silver tickets white, etc, is they still hotspot and have a gain artifact sheen at 1 4-1.5 throw ratios, better than drywall though. I dont have any experience with painting but perhaps that can provide a very matte surface.
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post #319 of 337 Old 01-16-2020, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
Hmm, that projectors contrast ratio is 500:1? Its never going to have any kind of decent black. If you dont want to deal with the impact on uniformity from +gain grey alr screens then you can probably just use a white material.

See how contrast at 5% is fairly similar on both projectors, thats the highest a white room is capable of.
https://i0.wp.com/projectiondream.co...size=798%2C233
https://i0.wp.com/projectiondream.co...ble.png?w=1252

With a native contrast of 500:1 a treated room wont make any difference and neither will a darker screen, as the projector doesnt have the output to shift its contrast down. I.e. say a projector can do 40fl white and 0.08fl black. You could improve that projectors black level by reducing output or shifting contrast with a grey screen down to 20fl white and 0.04fl black. Using alr screens offsets the room though where reducing output from the projrctor doesnt. But if your stock is 20fl theres nowhere to go. So best to shoot instead for a very uniform and artifact free image. I cant suggest a studiotek100 lol or even a seymourav glacial white. Maybe elunevisions fixed frame reference 100, its supposed to be very matte and texture/artifact free. My general experience with the base white materials like elites cinewhite, silver tickets white, etc, is they still hotspot and have a gain artifact sheen at 1 4-1.5 throw ratios, better than drywall though. I dont have any experience with painting but perhaps that can provide a very matte surface.
I did mention painting which seems to provide the best option, at least from what I've read. The paint mix can be customized so you can get at the edge of having hotspot/artifacts.
The description seems very encouraging:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post58790176
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post #320 of 337 Old 01-16-2020, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
I did mention painting which seems to provide the best option, at least from what I've read. The paint mix can be customized so you can get at the edge of having hotspot/artifacts.
The description seems very encouraging:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post58790176
I have tried the painting. I found it very difficult to get it right and eventually gave up.
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post #321 of 337 Old 01-16-2020, 06:11 PM
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I have tried the painting. I found it very difficult to get it right and eventually gave up.

What mix did you try?
Was it with MM's assistance?
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post #322 of 337 Old 01-16-2020, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
What mix did you try?
Was it with MM's assistance?
I tried the mix that MM suggested at the time. Maybe 3-4 years ago. It had about 5 elements. I even used a pro painter. The biggest problem was getting an even coat across the whole screen. The issue may have been that spraying is the desired method. That wasn’t possible at the time and may have solved the problem. I did like the parts that didn’t have problems from rolling instead of spraying. My impression though was that spraying would be a challenge too. But that’s based on my spraying experience, which is extremely amateurish.

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post #323 of 337 Old 01-16-2020, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackB View Post
I tried the mix that MM suggested at the time. Maybe 3-4 years ago. It had about 5 elements. I even used a pro painter. The biggest problem was getting an even coat across the whole screen. The issue may have been that spraying is the desired method. That wasn’t possible at the time and may have solved the problem. I did like the parts that didn’t have problems from rolling instead of spraying. My impression though was that spraying would be a challenge too. But that’s based on my spraying experience, which is extremely amateurish.
Doesn't look that hard.

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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvS...ubscribe_title


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ03-EyMhfo



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLDKI3F-jVI


https://youtu.be/DNhd2o5bmN4

<div>">">


Now then....if a "large" 65 + yr old guy can shuffle along a 2 x 12" Plank 4' off the floor at a steady speed and hold a spray gun level and at the same approximate distance from a Wall-sized Screen surface............................
@Trogloraptor , surely with just a few practice "dry Runs" you can get'ter dun.

Hint.....try to elevate your Screen off the Floor at least 12" so you can overlap the Bottom edge with a Vertical spray pattern and don't have to do a vertical cut-in.
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post #324 of 337 Old 01-16-2020, 06:53 PM
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Doesn't look that hard.
I suck at painting im really apprehensive about it :[ Im going to get a white hardboard to practice before i paint the elunevision screen though. You have to rapidly cropdust and overlay perfectly and put several coats letting it dry for a day in between, in a non humid enviroment thats well ventilated and covered in plastic as to not get paint everywhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
I suck at painting im really apprehensive about it :[ Im going to get a white hardboard to practice before i paint the elunevision screen though. You have to rapidly cropdust and overlay perfectly and put several coats letting it dry for a day in between, in a non humid enviroment thats well ventilated and covered in plastic as to not get paint everywhere
Better than spending 4000 dollars on a screen .
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Quote:
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Ya thats high lamp. What preset? 600 lumens on the .8 sample is only 11fl, too dark, you wanna shoot for 16-20fl for most sdr content.
Hi

As per my measurement, the Peak brightness of HU70 on 126" 1.0 gain white screen was only around 45 nits which is 13 ftL.

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@Gae80uk

Sorry for can't giving any advice on the screen as I don't have many experience on those ALR screen, but I believe it is a give and take game, there is no perfect solution.

I was looking for a screen can optimize the picture contrast in last few months, but after a few researches I gave up this idea, as I didn't want improve the contrast by trading off the brightness and color and having the sparking, hot spot on the screen.

I think the biggest challenge is we are using short throw projector.

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Quote:
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As per my measurement, the Peak brightness of HU70 on 126" 1.0 gain white screen was only around 45 nits which is 13 ftL.
Does that look dim to you or comfortably bright and detailed?

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Better than spending 4000 dollars on a screen .
Can't buy a blacker screen anyway so paintings the only option. But idk... the screens 50% of the display and impacts image quality in several areas. If you're not spending much on the projector I wouldnt expect you to be interested in a 4k screen, but if you're spending 3k+, it should be an attractive option. I would be suprised if any painted material performs as well as an ST100, alot of engineering went into that material and advanced manufacturing is needed to make it. They're generally 3k for typical screen sizes and there's a used market as well. The parallax at 4k provides a similarly matte and artifact free surface with the added bonus of above/below light rejection and shifting contrast for improved black levels, well worth the price. The screens invisible with these materials, I think alot of people dont realize how grainy and flat the cheaper materials make the image look, a pixel should look solid and uniform, not like a little pile of sand.

I can only imagine what the mico40 would look like on a full sized st100/parallax. It already has incredible dimensionality and removing any hotspotting/gain artifacting would make it look like actual 3D. I'm pretty sure rgb dlp + st100/parallax = perfection(aside from 0-1% apl black levels...). Upgrade path for me is still a parallax.8
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post #329 of 337 Old 01-16-2020, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
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Does that look dim to you or comfortably bright and detailed?

Can't buy a blacker screen anyway so paintings the only option. But idk... the screens 50% of the display and impacts image quality in several areas. If you're not spending much on the projector I wouldnt expect you to be interested in a 4k screen, but if you're spending 3k+, it should be an attractive option. I would be suprised if any painted material performs as well as an ST100, alot of engineering went into that material and advanced manufacturing is needed to make it. They're generally 3k for typical screen sizes and there's a used market as well. The parallax at 4k provides a similarly matte and artifact free surface with the added bonus of above/below light rejection and shifting contrast for improved black levels, well worth the price. The screens invisible with these materials, I think alot of people dont realize how grainy and flat the cheaper materials make the image look, a pixel should look solid and uniform, not like a little pile of sand.

I can only imagine what the mico40 would look like on a full sized st100/parallax. It already has incredible dimensionality and removing any hotspotting/gain artifacting would make it look like actual 3D. I'm pretty sure rgb dlp + st100/parallax = perfection(aside from 0-1% apl black levels...). Upgrade path for me is still a parallax.8
In most of time, it is acceptable for me.
With some movies with lower APL, yes...I will want more brightness.

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Anthony Chan
AV Blog: http://www.avnewbie.com
Panasonic DP-UB9000EBK, Shield TV Pro 2019, Zidoo Z9S, Anthem AVM60, Krell KAV2250 X 2, Theater Amplifier Standard, M&K S-150 X 5, SS150 X 4, Martin Logan Descent-i and Thiel SS 2, SS2.2 and SI 1 Integrator, LG HU70LA, JK 126" Fixed Screen N4-FL/W1

Last edited by chhanthony; 01-16-2020 at 08:52 PM.
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