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post #1 of 26 Old 10-11-2019, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Question Epson Home Cinema 3800 vs 4010

Hello,

I bought an Epson 4010 last weekend and generally I am happy with the performance. I am using this in my living room with no light control. The projector is watchable during the day but obviously colors are washed out.

Upcoming Home Cinema 3800 has 3000 lumens output while Home Cinema 4010 has 2400 lumens.

Would it make sense for me to return 4010 and get 3800 for better daylight viewing?

3800 also seems to support 4k HDR at 60 hz, probably has better 3D due to higher brightness and is smaller/portable (a plus for me since my projector is not mounted). But it seems to lack in the color/contrast department when compared to 4010.

Please help me decide if I should keep 4010 or get 3800.

Thank you.
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post #2 of 26 Old 10-11-2019, 09:04 AM
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The 3200 and 3800 are on my radar. The lumen difference may be marginally beneficial, but I'm not sure it would be worth making a change just for that. Depending on what you paid for the 4010, if you have a restocking-fee return option, I'd consider returning it for the refurb 5040 from Epson just for the likely cost savings but definitely for the improved black levels.

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post #3 of 26 Old 10-11-2019, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yenal View Post
Hello,

I bought an Epson 4010 last weekend and generally I am happy with the performance. I am using this in my living room with no light control. The projector is watchable during the day but obviously colors are washed out.

Upcoming Home Cinema 3800 has 3000 lumens output while Home Cinema 4010 has 2400 lumens.

Would it make sense for me to return 4010 and get 3800 for better daylight viewing?

3800 also seems to support 4k HDR at 60 hz, probably has better 3D due to higher brightness and is smaller/portable (a plus for me since my projector is not mounted). But it seems to lack in the color/contrast department when compared to 4010.

Please help me decide if I should keep 4010 or get 3800.

Thank you.

In real use, the difference between 2400 Lumens and 3000 Lumens is quite small. Depending on your set-up, you may or may not see any difference. Any difference you do see is going to be very small.

The HC4010 has a spec'd Contrast Ratio of 200,000:1 and the HC3800 has a spec'd Contrast Ratio of 100,000:1. So that extra 600 Lumens comes with the cost of a substantial reduction of contrast. In this case a 100% change.

Front projection is simply not the best choice with regards to picture quality in daylight conditions. You will probably realize more benefit by using a good quality ALR rejection screen like a Stewart Filmscreen Phantom HALR than changing projectors.

However, The HC3800 does have a lower MSRP price than the HC4010. So if your viewing is mostly during daylight hours then maybe the HC3800 is the better choice as you may not fully realize the difference of the improved contrast of the HC4010 in daylight conditions, and you would save some money.
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post #4 of 26 Old 10-11-2019, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by b curry View Post
In real use, the difference between 2400 Lumens and 3000 Lumens is quite small. Depending on your set-up, you may or may not see any difference. Any difference you do see is going to be very small.

The HC4010 has a spec'd Contrast Ratio of 200,000:1 and the HC3800 has a spec'd Contrast Ratio of 100,000:1. So that extra 600 Lumens comes with the cost of a substantial reduction of contrast. In this case a 100% change.

Front projection is simply not the best choice with regards to picture quality in daylight conditions. You will probably realize more benefit by using a good quality ALR rejection screen like a Stewart Filmscreen Phantom HALR than changing projectors.

However, The HC3800 does have a lower MSRP price than the HC4010. So if your viewing is mostly during daylight hours then maybe the HC3800 is the better choice as you may not fully realize the difference of the improved contrast of the HC4010 in daylight conditions, and you would save some money.
Most "real" viewing will be during night time with my wife and the projector looks phenomenal at night. However we do have some family movie time during the day. It looks like 3800 will not have substantial benefits for daytime viewing and make me regret giving up 4010 when watching in proper conditions.

Right now I have a temporary screen, Elite Yard Master 2 120". It's a PVC screen. I am planning to buy a pull down 120" screen. Is there a screen good for both day and night time viewing? I assume it's physically not possible to have a material capable of providing the optimum condition for all cases. What screen would be a good trade off?

For the previous poster, I paid $1799+tax for the projector and a bonus Roku streaming stick. So I would not be really saving much switching to 3800.

Thank you all.
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post #5 of 26 Old 10-11-2019, 09:35 AM
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If you can return it without a restocking fee, I'd really consider the refurb 5040 directly from Epson for $1151... the difference would go a long way towards a proper screen, especially if you're considering ALR (there's at least one tab-tensioned ALR screen on Amazon that the price difference would cover, but it's manual pull-down).
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post #6 of 26 Old 10-11-2019, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post
If you can return it without a restocking fee, I'd really consider the refurb 5040 directly from Epson for $1151... the difference would go a long way towards a proper screen, especially if you're considering ALR (there's at least one tab-tensioned ALR screen on Amazon that the price difference would cover, but it's manual pull-down).
Isn't that the model with power failure issue? Is the image quality much better than 4010? I can definitely return this to BestBuy without paying a return fee? Can you please link to the screen you mention in Amazon? Thank you.

Edit: 5040 also does not seem to support 4k 60hz at 10 bit. I am not sure if that matters.
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post #7 of 26 Old 10-11-2019, 09:48 AM
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I have not seen an independent review of the 3800 so its hard to judge. The published specs of dynamic contrast are useless for comparison and am willing the bet the native contrast of the two are very close to the same. The addition of the 18Gb HDMI could be a major factor in HDR compatibility. If your not using the power lens memory of the 4010 I would think the 3800 with more lumins might be the better option for less then ideal conditions.

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post #8 of 26 Old 10-11-2019, 11:30 AM
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I've previously made the switch from an Epson 5030 (2,500 lumens) to an Epson 3700 (3,000 lumens) which is of course what the 3,800 will replace. I have a 150" white screen in my basement and the walls and ceiling are painted dark. The difference in perceived brightness is HUGE comparing these two projectors even though you are only seeing 500 on the specs. The lumen numbers you are being given are at the max level output and that's not what you will be watching. The 3700 is supposedly inferior to the 5030 and is so much more enjoyable to watch because of the punch the extra lumens give it. I would also strongly argue that the contrast difference between the two in your environment almost can't be perceived and to be honest neither packs a punch in black levels in the most perfect of environments so I'd still go with the 3800 unless you absolutely have to have the motorized lens. The only thing I would argue is that the fan noise on the 3800 will be louder but because it's so bright you'll actually be watching it in medium so it's still pretty quiet. Because I watch lots of sports with the lights on and I have a 150" screen I'm strongly considering the 3800 over the 5050 with my upgrade. Color pop over precision (assuming the pop is still pretty accurate) is an EASY tradeoff for me and probably to a lot of folks with less than perfect environments. Let me throw a quick suggestion out. The 3800 isn't quite out yet so if you need to make a quicker decision find a place that has the 3700 which is at this point deeply discounted and do a comparison. It should have almost the exact same lumens and contrast as the 3800 and see if the extra pop helps you out. Remember the 3700 is a 1080p so don't pay attention to the perceived sharpness. If you can find some place with a generous return policy I think this will solidify your decision.
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post #9 of 26 Old 10-11-2019, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawkmarket View Post
I've previously made the switch from an Epson 5030 (2,500 lumens) to an Epson 3700 (3,000 lumens) which is of course what the 3,800 will replace. I have a 150" white screen in my basement and the walls and ceiling are painted dark. The difference in perceived brightness is HUGE comparing these two projectors even though you are only seeing 500 on the specs. The lumen numbers you are being given are at the max level output and that's not what you will be watching. The 3700 is supposedly inferior to the 5030 and is so much more enjoyable to watch because of the punch the extra lumens give it. I would also strongly argue that the contrast difference between the two in your environment almost can't be perceived and to be honest neither packs a punch in black levels in the most perfect of environments so I'd still go with the 3800 unless you absolutely have to have the motorized lens. The only thing I would argue is that the fan noise on the 3800 will be louder but because it's so bright you'll actually be watching it in medium so it's still pretty quiet. Because I watch lots of sports with the lights on and I have a 150" screen I'm strongly considering the 3800 over the 5050 with my upgrade. Color pop over precision (assuming the pop is still pretty accurate) is an EASY tradeoff for me and probably to a lot of folks with less than perfect environments. Let me throw a quick suggestion out. The 3800 isn't quite out yet so if you need to make a quicker decision find a place that has the 3700 which is at this point deeply discounted and do a comparison. It should have almost the exact same lumens and contrast as the 3800 and see if the extra pop helps you out. Remember the 3700 is a 1080p so don't pay attention to the perceived sharpness. If you can find some place with a generous return policy I think this will solidify your decision.

While I would generally agree that the difference in lumen output will be of value and make a difference in a dark room such as you have, you're really making an apples and oranges' comparison.

The OP has indicated that he is using the projector in a living room during daylight hours without light control. In this situation, the extra ~600 lumens, in his case will be of little value. You will see a slight increase in brightness but the color is still going to be washed out all things equal in his setup.

In your case, a room with dark walls and no daylight, you still have a considerable advantage watching with some light on vs. watching in a living room with daylight.

No doubt the HC3800 is a nice unit and it should sell very well, especially as Epson tends to drop the price of new units after the first few months. I too would choose it over the HC4010. However, in my case, it would be for brightness and its size as I would use it outdoors.

Overall, in the OP's intended use, I don't think he will see that much of a difference in daylight use. At night, yes.
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post #10 of 26 Old 10-11-2019, 01:41 PM
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Isn't that the model with power failure issue? Is the image quality much better than 4010? I can definitely return this to BestBuy without paying a return fee? Can you please link to the screen you mention in Amazon? Thank you.

Edit: 5040 also does not seem to support 4k 60hz at 10 bit. I am not sure if that matters.
You can check the 5040 thread, but I believe the power supply issue has been fixed in the refurb models... that's why there were so many available to be refurbished. You're right, it doesn't support 4K60HDR, but the VAST majority of UHD content is 4K24HDR and most players can output 4K24HDR even with 4K60HDR content (with some minor frame rate artifacts). I'd almost consider it a bonus since it will rid you of the hassle/pressure of finding a long 18gbps HDMI cable for 4K60HDR content you're likely to never watch anyway. If the size of the 5040 weren't problematic for my pitched ceiling mounting I'd already have one given the price... hence holding out for a sale or refurb of the 3200 or 3800. I really miss my 3000 (which makes me think I'd be fine even with the 3200 depending on the price difference), but it's living on in my brother's HT which is currently under construction.

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post #11 of 26 Old 10-12-2019, 05:30 AM
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@yenal an ALR screen will be of limited use. It depends on how much light there is in the room and what kind of image is projected. If the projected image is bright (i.e. sports), then the screen has something to reflect back. A dark image will be washed out.

If however there is too much light in the room, no type of pj+screen can fix that, and a TV would be a better choice for daytime viewing:

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post #12 of 26 Old 10-12-2019, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the input so far. I have also started looking into Epson 3700 which is selling for $899 right now.

One thing that was not super clear to me was my living room having light colored walls effect my viewing experience even at night. Maybe I am not getting the most out of a projector like 4010.

If I were to get Epson HC 3700, would I lose a lot of sharpness? I know these Epson projectors are faux 4K. The price difference between 3700 and 3800 is pretty steep.

I am also open to other projectors but I did not find any decent ones with lens shift. Since my projector is not mounted, lens shifting is what makes it easy for setting it up before watching movies. I have the projector on an AV cart.
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post #13 of 26 Old 10-12-2019, 10:25 AM
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Depends on your seating distance and screen size. LCD has fairly large gaps between pixels that cause the screen door effect so if you sit too close you can see the grid. Eshift from the 4010 reduces this effect considerably. The 3100/3700 on closeout is an great deal right now.

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Originally Posted by rekbones View Post
Depends on your seating distance and screen size. LCD has fairly large gaps between pixels that cause the screen door effect so if you sit too close you can see the grid. Eshift from the 4010 reduces this effect considerably. The 3100/3700 on closeout is an great deal right now.
Seating distance is 10-12 feet and the screen size is 120 inches.
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Seating distance is 10-12 feet and the screen size is 120 inches.
Your close to the distance as too where some people can see the grid. If you disable eshift on your 4010 the grid should be the same. The LCD panels on the 3700 and 4010 are very close to the same, they may even be identical but the 4010 has a little better lens so may be a tad sharper with 1080p content.

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post #16 of 26 Old 10-13-2019, 01:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Your close to the distance as too where some people can see the grid. If you disable eshift on your 4010 the grid should be the same. The LCD panels on the 3700 and 4010 are very close to the same, they may even be identical but the 4010 has a little better lens so may be a tad sharper with 1080p content.
I think I am leaning towards the 3800. The only lacking part seems to be the lack of P3 color support. Is that something I would miss from 4010?
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post #17 of 26 Old 10-13-2019, 08:38 AM
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I think I am leaning towards the 3800. The only lacking part seems to be the lack of P3 color support. Is that something I would miss from 4010?

I believe you said you are going with a 120" screen. Assuming no gain on the screen and with the filter in place on the projector you are probably getting P3 coverage on the lamps best day at around 23fl. It's ok, likely to drop below 20fl after the first 500 to 1,000 hours. Meh. When you toggle through the different picture modes my guess is your eye will gravitate towards brighter vs. more color expanded as your trade off but that's only a guess on my part. The only thing I know to tell you to do is to buy each projector from a place with a generous return policy and then decide after you see it in real life. Specs on paper aren't always appreciated in real life viewing.
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post #18 of 26 Old 10-13-2019, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I believe you said you are going with a 120" screen. Assuming no gain on the screen and with the filter in place on the projector you are probably getting P3 coverage on the lamps best day at around 23fl. It's ok, likely to drop below 20fl after the first 500 to 1,000 hours. Meh. When you toggle through the different picture modes my guess is your eye will gravitate towards brighter vs. more color expanded as your trade off but that's only a guess on my part. The only thing I know to tell you to do is to buy each projector from a place with a generous return policy and then decide after you see it in real life. Specs on paper aren't always appreciated in real life viewing.
Actually I just realized that there is a %15 restocking fee for projectors in Best Buy. I really did not know it and just realized when placing an order for 3800. I'll ask if they do any exceptions on exchange with a different model but I doubt it. I guess I will be keeping the 4010.
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post #19 of 26 Old 10-21-2019, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually I just realized that there is a %15 restocking fee for projectors in Best Buy. I really did not know it and just realized when placing an order for 3800. I'll ask if they do any exceptions on exchange with a different model but I doubt it. I guess I will be keeping the 4010.
Sadly, my Epson 4010 broke in its second week. It basically was stuck during the initial boot and was not outputting any picture. I could not even turn it off thus the lens cover stayed on. Hopefully this was just a lemon.

Best Buy did not give me any trouble taking back the projector and giving me the full refund. Unfortunately, I cannot pick up the 3800 now because the $200 gift card promotion is over for some reason. I don't want to pay almost the same price as I paid for 4010. I guess I'll wait for Black Friday to have a better deal.
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post #20 of 26 Old 10-21-2019, 08:09 PM
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Sadly, my Epson 4010 broke in its second week. It basically was stuck during the initial boot and was not outputting any picture. I could not even turn it off thus the lens cover stayed on. Hopefully this was just a lemon.

Best Buy did not give me any trouble taking back the projector and giving me the full refund. Unfortunately, I cannot pick up the 3800 now because the $200 gift card promotion is over for some reason. I don't want to pay almost the same price as I paid for 4010. I guess I'll wait for Black Friday to have a better deal.
Something to keep in mind...others with more generous return polices will sell the 3800 next month. It appeared to be a Best Buy exclusive early on so you can now purchase it from elsewhere knowing you have the ability to return it without a restocking fee. Hopefully you won't want or need to but it's still nice to at least have the flexibility.
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post #21 of 26 Old 10-21-2019, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Hawkmarket View Post
Something to keep in mind...others with more generous return polices will sell the 3800 next month. It appeared to be a Best Buy exclusive early on so you can now purchase it from elsewhere knowing you have the ability to return it without a restocking fee. Hopefully you won't want or need to but it's still nice to at least have the flexibility.
I think you're right. However, other retailers will be selling this from MSRP of $1699. Best Buy had a promotion to get a $200 gift card with the purchase. Hopefully there will be some good Black Friday deals. I am hoping for a $2k 5050ub deal. Probably wishful thinking.
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post #22 of 26 Old 10-25-2019, 11:33 AM
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Something to keep in mind...others with more generous return polices will sell the 3800 next month. It appeared to be a Best Buy exclusive early on so you can now purchase it from elsewhere knowing you have the ability to return it without a restocking fee. Hopefully you won't want or need to but it's still nice to at least have the flexibility.
Next month means November ?

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post #23 of 26 Old 10-25-2019, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Next month means November ?

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I believe so. B&H Photo is taking pre-orders. However they don't have the $200 gift card deal Best Buy had. Epson 4010 for $1799 seems to be much better deal than Epson 3800 for $1699.
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I believe so. B&H Photo is taking pre-orders. However they don't have the $200 gift card deal Best Buy had. Epson 4010 for $1799 seems to be much better deal than Epson 3800 for $1699.
That is what I am thinking as well

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Originally Posted by yenal View Post
I believe so. B&H Photo is taking pre-orders. However they don't have the $200 gift card deal Best Buy had. Epson 4010 for $1799 seems to be much better deal than Epson 3800 for $1699.
I am going to wait till next month to see if 3800 will drop in price once it is with other retailers else will go with 4010

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bikermunda is offline  
post #26 of 26 Old 10-25-2019, 09:43 PM
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The 4010 and the 5040 someone recommended also do not support Anamorphic mode for Anamorphic lens. The 3800 does according to the manual (I think I'll pick one up in a few weeks). If this is any consideration for you as well.
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