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post #1 of 53 Old 11-05-2019, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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4k Pixel shifting

Hello,

 I am considering upgrade my Benq 1080st to a new projector, focusing on HT3550, HT5550, Epson 4010, 5040UB, 5050UB (all DCI-P3 near to 100%, under $3k).

  Can anyone explain me why 4k and HDR were a must for television and, literally, ALL specialized projector reviews says that 4k is not so important in the projection area spite of >100” screens?

  All comparisons give the victory to Epson, but I can watch videos about the sharpness on YouTube and there the is an important GAP between 2-pixel shifting and 4-pixel shinfting, the last, near to native.

  Why does Epson UB win all reviews? Contrast is the the most important to projection?

If YES, why i shoud go to 5050ub instead 5040ub, considering the $600-700 less new at the second?

Sorry for my english,
Thanks for your replies
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post #2 of 53 Old 11-05-2019, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I think is important to say i have a dedicated light controled projection room...
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post #3 of 53 Old 11-05-2019, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by alvaroec View Post
Hello,

 I am considering upgrade my Benq 1080st to a new projector, focusing on HT3550, HT5550, Epson 4010, 5040UB, 5050UB (all DCI-P3 near to 100%, under $3k).

  Can anyone explain me why 4k and HDR were a must for television and, literally, ALL specialized projector reviews says that 4k is not so important in the projection area spite of >100” screens?

  All comparisons give the victory to Epson, but I can watch videos about the sharpness on YouTube and there the is an important GAP between 2-pixel shifting and 4-pixel shinfting, the last, near to native.

  Why does Epson UB win all reviews? Contrast is the the most important to projection?

If YES, why i shoud go to 5050ub instead 5040ub, considering the $600-700 less new at the second?

Sorry for my english,
Thanks for your replies
I don't think Epson UB wins all the reviews but there is a strong current of opinion about contrast as being the only important factor and so shortcomings in resolution and other factors that favour DLP, tend to be downplayed. The other factor that tends to be ignored is actual, on screen, contrast of actual content. In this review, using actual content of the image below, the onscreen contrast of the Epson TW9400/BenQ W5700 was 1140-1/890-1:

http://cine4home.de/wp-content/uploa...08/Bild49c.jpg
http://cine4home.de/benq-w5700-vs-ep...nzimmerbeamer/

and the human visual system is unlikely to be able to clearly differentiate between these values, but the difference in resolution (using 4K mastered material) is likely to be more discernible when viewed on larger screens, at less than 1.5 screen width distance.

This is a very interesting review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=yUroCr7AtDo
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post #4 of 53 Old 11-05-2019, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by alvaroec View Post
Hello,

 I am considering upgrade my Benq 1080st to a new projector, focusing on HT3550, HT5550, Epson 4010, 5040UB, 5050UB (all DCI-P3 near to 100%, under $3k).

  Can anyone explain me why 4k and HDR were a must for television and, literally, ALL specialized projector reviews says that 4k is not so important in the projection area spite of >100” screens?

  All comparisons give the victory to Epson, but I can watch videos about the sharpness on YouTube and there the is an important GAP between 2-pixel shifting and 4-pixel shinfting, the last, near to native.

  Why does Epson UB win all reviews? Contrast is the the most important to projection?

If YES, why i shoud go to 5050ub instead 5040ub, considering the $600-700 less new at the second?

Sorry for my english,
Thanks for your replies


Yeah, I tend to differ with the established position taken by many reviewers and some members here. I think resolution matters a great deal in projectors because, as you rightly point out, screen sizes are so large.

When 4K came to flatscreens it sort of flopped. Sure, the TV manufacturers claim 4K was a success but that was largely down to consumers not really having a choice: if you were buying a Tv at a certain size you had to buy 4K. The truth is, it difficult if not impossible to discern any noticeable increase in picture clarity on a 50-65” set from typical viewing distances. So, quickly, the conversation went from resolution being the main benefit to HDR/wide color being the main benefit. And in the context of a tiny flatscreen that makes perfect sense.

In the projector world things are a little different. Resolution becomes (again, IMO) vastly more important as the average screen size increases from 100 to 120 to, in some cases, 140” and above. While it’s difficult to see the advantage 4K brings to a 60” flatscreen when viewed from across the room— heck, while it’s not a given that 4K is always a discernible advantage for my 28” monitor that I sit RIGHT in front of— it was immediately apparent the advantage 4K has over HD on my 100” projector screen.

When comparing projectors you can’t take cost out of the equation. You say the Epson 5050 “always wins”. I’m not sure that’s the case as I’ve read a lot of comparisons and reviews of that model and while the reviews are glowing it’s also important to consider that it’s the most expensive of any of the projectors you mentioned. It also has the best contrast of any projector you mentioned and contrast is a highly valued metric and tends to win in direct head to head comparisons. Still, head over to the BenQ Ht5550 owners thread and you’ll find more than a few members who preferred that model owing to (among other things) it being sharper due to the fact that it has twice the resolution, has DLP’s typical better motion handling, and some have argued it’s HDR picture has a leg up on the Epson’s. So it’s not so clear cut and depends greatly on the priorities of the owner.

I have not seen the 5050 yet but I have spent some time with the 4010 and while I think Epson’s 4K enhancement pixel shift is a solid tech and a great addition to their lineup and the market in general— it’s not as sharp as the DLPs and the difference is, IMO, not subtle. Now, factors like screen size, sitting distance and content can all conspire to lessen that difference. And you have to consider other factors as well: contrast, color, brightness, lens shift, throw, zoom, picture features... there are a ton of reasons besides resolution that you might choose one model over another.

For me, I’m pretty high in the 4K DLPs. I’ve grown accustomed to the extra clarity the 4K resolution provides and I’ve long been a fan of DLP’s motion handling (as a former plasma fanatic I found the motion blur on LCD and LCD based tech to be a big turn off when I tried to make the switch). But I also understand the tech has it’s weaknesses. DLP has long struggled to compete with pricier 3LCD and LCOS projectors in terms of contrast and the continued inability of manufacturers to produce affordable DLPs with generous lens shift/zoom is a downer. Again, it’s all about your priorities.
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post #5 of 53 Old 11-05-2019, 02:45 PM
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4K and TV size is really only marketing because no one sits close enough to their TV to truly see the benefit of 4K, now HDR is a different kettle of fish as it’s benefit is much easier to see.

So where does this leave 4K with regards to projectors, again it’s all down to how close you want to see from your screen to see the improvement, say your screen is 100” and you see 10ft from the screen then you will see a difference between a 1080P projector and one that is either True 4K or Native 4K but if you were to compare either of these with a 2K pixel shifter like what JVC or Epson offer then you will struggle to see any difference from 10ft, I did the comparison in my home cinema room against a Native 4K Sony and frankly we need to move to around 7ft to see the added resolution of the Sony. Some people might see the difference from a little further away but generally it’s this close to notice it proper.

Generally JVC owners play up the importance of Contrast whilst DLP owners play it down, having an Epson TW9400 which sits probably somewhere in the middle I would say JVC owners are probably right to say it’s the most important thing, Colors look more believable when you have good contrast and in my opinion there’s more detail in the shadows too. Of course throw up a space image and this is where contrast or the lack of it becomes most noticeable so whilst on normal viewing you might not notice it’s importance you definitely will on these darker scenes.

Two areas where DLPs have everything else firmly beat is motion and convergence, so if you are affected by motion then DLP will be the cure for sure and if you intend to sit closer to the screen than most do then either True 4K or Native 4K is the way to go.

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post #6 of 53 Old 11-05-2019, 03:18 PM
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Contrast is considered king, because professionals have proven time and time again that CONTRAST IS KING!!!

Resolution, especially motion resolution, rarely becomes a discernible factor when watching real content.

But, when a scene goes dark, to be left with a dingy grey on-screen image, you really start to notice it, and more and more you will be bugged by it. This is when better projectors with better contrast will start to really show their stuff.

What else is above resolution?

Shadow detail (not to be confused with contrast) as well as motion handling/video processing.

I'm not sure there are a ton of people that would jump on board and say that LCD does a better job with sports than DLP does. They may make an argument for LCoS (JVC/Sony) doing a better job. But, not so much the Epson projectors. In fairness, I haven't seen the 5040 or 5050, so I can't comment directly on how much they've improved things.

But, for speed of response, with sports for sure, DLP is awesome.

I jumped from my 1080p BenQ to a JVC and will say that I have zero motion complaints with the JVC, so it certainly isn't a LCoS issue at this point.

Motion handling and video processing can go well beyond just raw motion from video. It can include how well colors are handled. Whether or not the wider color gamut of HDR is properly resolved and you do get the DCI-P3 color space accurately represented. This can often be model by model dependent and most manufacturers do a good job with color reproduction.

Yes, 4K can make a difference, and if I were looking for a value upgrade from an entry level 1080p projector, then I would think the Epson 5040, as a refurb from Epson, would be the deal of the year. In fact, I've said that many times already.

I would think that the 3550 would be a very sideways move. You get the resolution, but not a ton more than what the 1080ST is already giving you. And for sure, the 1080ST is NOT giving you great blacks. Good blacks. Best in class blacks? Yep! But not great blacks.

The jump I had switching to my JVC was pretty awesome. But, I know that JVC delivers on great black levels. Meanwhile, Epson gets by with very good black levels.

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post #7 of 53 Old 11-05-2019, 08:00 PM
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I would think that the 3550 would be a very sideways move. You get the resolution, but not a ton more than what the 1080ST is already giving you. And for sure, the 1080ST is NOT giving you great blacks. Good blacks. Best in class blacks? Yep! But not great blacks.

Everyone’s experience and opinion will be a little different as everyone’s expectations are a little different...

But I actually compared the BenQ Ht3550 directly to a BenQ HT2050A— itself an update and improvement over the 1080ST— and found the HT3550 to be a substantial upgrade in just about every way save gaming. I shared my thoughts in post 2 of this thread:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...iew.html?amp=1

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post #8 of 53 Old 11-08-2019, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the explanations, i think need to research a little more, before i can decide witch is the best solution for my purpose.
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Originally Posted by alvaroec View Post
Thanks for the explanations, i think need to research a little more, before i can decide witch is the best solution for my purpose.
Also check out the JVC DLA-RS440U. Better than all the projectors mention in the first post. And can be had new for cheaper than the Espon 5050.

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Also check out the JVC DLA-RS440U. Better than all the projectors mention in the first post. And can be had new for cheaper than the Espon 5050.


JVC JVC DLA-RS440U and X790R seems to be at the same price point ($3,990). Need to search biddings. Any of them have Firmware update for JVC HDR Auto Tone Mapping?
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JVC JVC DLA-RS440U and X790R seems to be at the same price point ($3,990). Need to search biddings. Any of them have Firmware update for JVC HDR Auto Tone Mapping?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...topics/3100976

AGI is a authorized dealer.

No, I don't believe this series of JVC projectors have auto tone mapping like the NX series.

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post #12 of 53 Old 11-08-2019, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by MJ DOOM View Post
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...topics/3100976

AGI is a authorized dealer.

No, I don't believe this series of JVC projectors have auto tone mapping like the NX series.

Wow! Thats a good price for a JVC if its new!

Are they truly authorized tho? I cant find them on JVC's site.

That would be a worthy upgrade from my Mits HC4000

Thanks
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
When 4K came to flatscreens it sort of flopped. Sure, the TV manufacturers claim 4K was a success but that was largely down to consumers not really having a choice: if you were buying a Tv at a certain size you had to buy 4K. The truth is, it difficult if not impossible to discern any noticeable increase in picture clarity on a 50-65” set from typical viewing distances.


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4K and TV size is really only marketing because no one sits close enough to their TV to truly see the benefit of 4K,
From a non technical perspective I would have to disagree. When content was recorded in 4k and shown on a 4k TV at Best Buy, I was blown away by the colors and the realism of the picture, even on 60" TVs.

Now were moving from 4k to 8k, eventually there is a point of diminishing returns but I think 4k outshines 1080p all day long.

Technology does not seem like its out long enough before they start pushing the next big thing, 1080p > 4K > 8K. There is not even allot of 1080p broadcasts but were already seeing 8k TVs in the showrooms. It would be nice if content/broadcasts moved at the same pace.
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After reading lots of raving reviews about the HT3550 (aka W2700) and other 4k entry models, I was under the impression 4k pixel shifting is merely a 'technicality' debated among video nerds and if one doesn't care about small print legalese these projectors would still produce a stunning 4k image. Well, actually that's not really true. 4k pixel shifting is still nowhere near true 4k quality. That might be well known among the regulars in here, I was 'unpleasantly' surprised.

On the upside, pixel-shifting is still a very noticeable upgrade from 1080p and probably the best image quality available at this price point. Bottom line, one should be aware that 4k pixel-shifting is basically a marketing lie, even on the much hyped HT3550. Nevertheless I'm still in the market for a pixel-shifter but at least now I know what I'm actually getting for my money.



Benq HT3550 4k image vs. original full resolution 4k image
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post #15 of 53 Old 11-08-2019, 03:14 PM
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After reading lots of raving reviews about the HT3550 (aka W2700) and other 4k entry models, I was under the impression 4k pixel shifting is merely a 'technicality' debated among video nerds and if one doesn't care about small print legalese these projectors would still produce a stunning 4k image. Well, actually that's not really true. 4k pixel shifting is still nowhere near true 4k quality. That might be well known among the regulars in here, I was 'unpleasantly' surprised.

On the upside, pixel-shifting is still a very noticeable upgrade from 1080p and probably the best image quality available at this price point. Bottom line, one should be aware that 4k pixel-shifting is basically a marketing lie, even on the much hyped HT3550. Nevertheless I'm still in the market for a pixel-shifter but at least now I know what I'm actually getting for my money.

https://i.imgur.com/pTkfoel.png

Benq HT3550 4k image vs. original full resolution 4k image
Can you provide a link to the original website that produced the images?

All projectors' screenshots are going to show some reduction in IQ over the original image, so your above statement has to be qualified on that basis. To be fair you have to show the same image screenshot in comparison to other projectors.

This very similar image compares a W5700 with a Tw9400:

http://cine4home.de/wp-content/uploa...ch-696x636.jpg
from:
http://cine4home.de/benq-w5700-vs-ep...nzimmerbeamer/

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Can you provide a link to the original website that produced the images?
it's actually from the same guy who provided your image (some kind of influencer in the german projector-scene)

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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
This very similar image compares a W5700 with a Tw9400:
Thanks! it's also available in higher resolution
http://cine4home.de/wp-content/uploa.../Vergleich.jpg
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post #17 of 53 Old 11-09-2019, 06:40 AM
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From a non technical perspective I would have to disagree. When content was recorded in 4k and shown on a 4k TV at Best Buy, I was blown away by the colors and the realism of the picture, even on 60" TVs.

Now were moving from 4k to 8k, eventually there is a point of diminishing returns but I think 4k outshines 1080p all day long.

Technology does not seem like its out long enough before they start pushing the next big thing, 1080p > 4K > 8K. There is not even allot of 1080p broadcasts but were already seeing 8k TVs in the showrooms. It would be nice if content/broadcasts moved at the same pace.
Yes, colors and realism = HDR not 4K resolution.
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From a non technical perspective I would have to disagree. When content was recorded in 4k and shown on a 4k TV at Best Buy, I was blown away by the colors and the realism of the picture, even on 60" TVs.

Now were moving from 4k to 8k, eventually there is a point of diminishing returns but I think 4k outshines 1080p all day long.

Technology does not seem like its out long enough before they start pushing the next big thing, 1080p > 4K > 8K. There is not even allot of 1080p broadcasts but were already seeing 8k TVs in the showrooms. It would be nice if content/broadcasts moved at the same pace.
May I ask you when you viewed it in a Best Buy what was your distance from the screen, I know when I’m in a TV store I’m usually standing about 3-4ft from the screen which is nothing like my 8ft-10ft at home. Resolution is solely based on how close you sit, the smaller the screen the closer you need to be to see the added resolution of 4K, this is a fact and generally TV screens are much smaller than projection screens.
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post #19 of 53 Old 11-09-2019, 07:40 AM
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May I ask you when you viewed it in a Best Buy what was your distance from the screen, I know when I’m in a TV store I’m usually standing about 3-4ft from the screen which is nothing like my 8ft-10ft at home. Resolution is solely based on how close you sit, the smaller the screen the closer you need to be to see the added resolution of 4K, this is a fact and generally TV screens are much smaller than projection screens.
Most likely 6-7 feet, I don't stand right up next to the TVs; however, all I was trying to say was the picture quality in 4k displays when first debuted were breathtaking when watching the 4k recorded loops they played and that was prior to all the other marketing/advancements like UHD, SHUD, HDR, DV.
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post #20 of 53 Old 11-09-2019, 11:37 AM
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Most likely 6-7 feet, I don't stand right up next to the TVs; however, all I was trying to say was the picture quality in 4k displays when first debuted were breathtaking when watching the 4k recorded loops they played and that was prior to all the other marketing/advancements like UHD, SHUD, HDR, DV.


We’ll have to agree to disagree. What I think happened is tv manufacturers and big box retailers figured out the best way to market these things. Super bright picture settings, over saturated color with lots of slow moving, ultra high resolution demo material and displays setup so you stand unusually close— closer than you ever would in your home.

I can actually thank 4K LCD for sending me down the path to front projection. I was super disappointed by the picture quality of the first couple years of 4K LCD sets especially when compared against my top of the range plasma. OLED showed a lot of promise but at the time the prices for just a 55” were ridiculous. Things have certainly improved but I would argue that resolution has nothing to do with it. Improvements in color, contrast, dynamic range and, yes, even viewing angles and motion handling have made modern LCDs a much more enjoyable thing to watch then they once were. I mean, I consider myself a 4K snob. But I will readily admit that resolution can be diminishing returns and, IMO, your average flat screen just isn’t big enough yet to take advantage of all the extra detail 4K can provide. That’s why I still haven’t replaced my plasmas after all all these years. OLED would be on my short list but from what I’ve seen with friends and family you have to babysit them even more than I did with my plasmas and.... I’m just sort of over that.

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I was browsing through the BD section of a local retailer, when I overheard the staff discussing resolving a problem with a customer's large screen TV. Basically they had to hire a moving company to go to his house to provide and set up the replacement, and transport the defective unit to the repair site. Contrast that with a projector, especially an UST where the customer could simply return it to the store, or place it in the packaging for the courier service.
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post #22 of 53 Old 11-13-2019, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello all,

Finally, i’ve bought a brand new Epson 5050 for a great price in Mexico, 2250 USD at change, 2 years warranty.

I think i can’t find best choice for this money here, spite of HT5550 better 4k was temting me.

Thanks
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post #23 of 53 Old 11-13-2019, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
I was browsing through the BD section of a local retailer, when I overheard the staff discussing resolving a problem with a customer's large screen TV. Basically they had to hire a moving company to go to his house to provide and set up the replacement, and transport the defective unit to the repair site. Contrast that with a projector, especially an UST where the customer could simply return it to the store, or place it in the packaging for the courier service.


As an apartment dweller I can vouch for this as moving my projector is a cinch whereas moving any one of my three glass screen plasmas is maximum anxiety inducing.

I still remember moving a family members 65” flat screen only to get to the destination and find an enormous crack in the screen. Was going to order one of those 6 series TCLs everyone was talking about a year or two ago when it went on sale on amazon— the reviews with images of smashed screens scared me off. By comparison, even moving a massive JVc projector is far less laborious.
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post #24 of 53 Old 11-13-2019, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by alvaroec View Post
Hello all,

Finally, i’ve bought a brand new Epson 5050 for a great price in Mexico, 2250 USD at change, 2 years warranty.

I think i can’t find best choice for this money here, spite of HT5550 better 4k was temting me.

Thanks
You will love it. Not saying the BenQ wouldn’t give a sharper image but with that you will need to sit closer to notice this but regardless of distance you will instantly notice the superior blacks of the Epson.

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post #25 of 53 Old 11-14-2019, 07:45 AM
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Hm, look at this sharpness comparison between the HT5550 (top image) and Epson 5050UB (bottom image)



Look at that massive screendoor effect on the 5050UB (wow)
that difference in sharpness is like day & night, not even in the same class
the reviewer said the screendoor of the epson is visible and becomes most apparent when reading text

as much as I fancy the Epson for it's superior interface, low fan noise and low input lag, this screendoor effect kills it for me
I seriously wish some people actually watched projectors rather and do a bit of keyboard warriorism, screendoor.... have you actually seen an Epson 5050/6050 in real life, based on your above comment I very much doubt it.

You ask anyone who actually owns one of these if they see SDE and every single one of them will say NO, I have actually done screen images right up to 1ft from my 100" screen and you don't see the pixel gap at all but you do see the pixels themselves, to see the gap you mention and show in that image I have to have almost my nose to the screen. Now frankly we all like an immersive experience but I'm even sure you would class this as too close a viewing distance.

Let me exact things, in simple answers:

1/ does the HT5550 have more resolution than the 5050............YES, 100% correct, lets all shout it from the roof tops.

2/ can you easily notice this improvement from say a viewing distance of 1ft per 10" of screen diagonal.......... NO.

Resolution is something that truly only becomes apparent on a still image and even then you generally have to step closer than the above parameters to see it.

I did this very test against my Epson in my room with a mates Sony 360es Native 4K who wanted to see what a real bat cave would do for his viewing experience, both him and I were shocked to find that neither of us could see any difference in image resolution when feed a UHD disc and it wasn't just us because I called up my sons who are both 19yr old and with perfect eye sight and neither could they. In fact we oldies had to move from my 9.5-10ft viewing distance down to 6ft to easily see the improvements but both felt that from 7ft you would be debating is there or isn't there an improvement so we called it 7ft.

The 360es was about 2.5 times more expensive when he bought his but his conclusion was that if he could do it all again he would have pocketed the difference and bought the Epson as I felt it was easily as good in every way.

BTW photo took 1ft from screen with a 1080p disc.

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post #26 of 53 Old 11-14-2019, 08:16 AM
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I seriously wish some people actually watched projectors rather and do a bit of keyboard warriorism, screendoor.... have you actually seen an Epson 5050/6050 in real life, based on your above comment I very much doubt it.



You ask anyone who actually owns one of these if they see SDE and every single one of them will say NO, I have actually done screen images right up to 1ft from my 100" screen and you don't see the pixel gap at all but you do see the pixels themselves, to see the gap you mention and show in that image I have to have almost my nose to the screen. Now frankly we all like an immersive experience but I'm even sure you would class this as too close a viewing distance.



Let me exact things, in simple answers:



1/ does the HT5550 have more resolution than the 5050............YES, 100% correct, lets all shout it from the roof tops.



2/ can you easily notice this improvement from say a viewing distance of 1ft per 10" of screen diagonal.......... NO.



Resolution is something that truly only becomes apparent on a still image and even then you generally have to step closer than the above parameters to see it.



I did this very test against my Epson in my room with a mates Sony 360es Native 4K who wanted to see what a real bat cave would do for his viewing experience, both him and I were shocked to find that neither of us could see any difference in image resolution when feed a UHD disc and it wasn't just us because I called up my sons who are both 19yr old and with perfect eye sight and neither could they. In fact we oldies had to move from my 9.5-10ft viewing distance down to 6ft to easily see the improvements but both felt that from 7ft you would be debating is there or isn't there an improvement so we called it 7ft.



The 360es was about 2.5 times more expensive when he bought his but his conclusion was that if he could do it all again he would have pocketed the difference and bought the Epson as I felt it was easily as good in every way.



BTW photo took 1ft from screen with a 1080p disc.





We’ve spoken about this before and I want to reiterate that your experience isn’t exactly reflective of everyone else’s experience. And that’s OK. I have not seen the 5050 in person but Scott, a member on this site, bought one to compare to the BenQ Ht5550 and he felt the difference in resolution was easily noticeable— while also stating that this far from a deal breaker considering all the other things the Epson does well. He also had a 4010 prior and felt the same way when compared with a budget DLP.

I’ve spent some time with the 4010 myself and, in isolation, it’s plenty sharp. However, when viewed alongside even a relatively inexpensive 4K DLP the resolution difference becomes apparent ASSUMING you have demo material that can illustrate the difference. In fact, I would go as far to say it’s substantial— as substantial as a difference of 4million pixels would imply. So, again, depending on content, screen size, viewing distances and priorities the difference in resolution might not be a deciding factor to YOU. But it is a factor. If it wasn’t, JVC would never have abandoned E-shift in favor of native 4K.
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^ I think I did mention viewing distance of which screen size also comes into the equation. Listen not only me but the guy with the 4k Sony also came to the same conclusion about the additional resolution and I’m pretty sure the Sony and BenQ claim the same amount of pixels.

You say resolution isn’t a deciding factor for me, I suppose I could also say the contrast and black levels aren’t that important to you either. This argument works both ways.

Listen we can disagree on some things which is perfectly fine but what I will argue till the cows come home is this nonsense about the Epson suffering screen door at even remotely normal viewing distances but it simply isn’t true.

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^ I think I did mention viewing distance of which screen size also comes into the equation. Listen not only me but the guy with the 4k Sony also came to the same conclusion about the additional resolution and I’m pretty sure the Sony and BenQ claim the same amount of pixels.



You say resolution isn’t a deciding factor for me, I suppose I could also say the contrast and black levels aren’t that important to you either. This argument works both ways.



Listen we can disagree on some things which is perfectly fine but what I will argue till the cows come home is this nonsense about the Epson suffering screen door at even remotely normal viewing distances but it simply isn’t true.


I sit 9 ft from my 100” screen. The 4010 couldn’t actually fill my screen given the small amount of space I have for throw. I didn’t measure but I would guess maybe 90”? Even then the difference was not subtle. Again, this is NOT a criticism of the Epson. I thought it looked great, in fact! But it’s not 4K. It’s not even close. Better than 1080p? Absolutely. Will that be enough for a lot people? Sure! But that still doesn’t make it 4K.

Again, everyone’s eyes are different. It could be that years of abusing mine with video games and having stared at 4K DLPs for the last couple years has conditioned me to know what to look for. Considering many (if not most) feature films are mastered at 2K you have to be selective with your content especially when you seek to make a comparison.

Also, why would you say contrast isn’t a factor for me? I’ve heard you say this before that contrast/blacks aren’t important to those that buy DLP. I can tell you, for me, that is simply not true. I happen to own the last best plasma ever made and I will tell you that contrast/blacks were very important in me making the decision to buy that model over less expensive alternatives (maybe the primary reason). Believe me, I really wish DLP was better in this area. The HT3550/HT5550 have made strides here but they still fall behind the best of what 3LCD has to offer and cannot match SXRD/DILA. Contrast/blacks play a strong part in my decisions around what displays I will use but it is ONE component. The issue is, the display with the best contrast often doesn’t meet other parameters that I have. Whether that be resolution, motion handling or even price. But, again, that’s ME.

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post #29 of 53 Old 11-14-2019, 11:40 AM
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here's the original quote from the reviewer looking at both projectors:

[Epson 5050UB]...sitting 12 feet away on my 160 inch screen I can tell you that 'yes' I can see individual pixels.
[Benq HT5550]...the way it resolves finer detail is just better....you just cannot resolve pixels, it's so sharp
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post #30 of 53 Old 11-14-2019, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by DryEyes View Post
here's the original quote from the reviewer looking at both projectors:

[Epson 5050UB]...sitting 12 feet away on my 160 inch screen I can tell you that 'yes' I can see individual pixels.
[Benq HT5550]...the way it resolves finer detail is just better....you just cannot resolve pixels, it's so sharp
Complete and utter BS.

Here’s 8ft from a 100” screen, can you see the individual pixels.



Never heard so much twaddle in my life. DLP 4K owners have only two things to shout about, resolution and motion so for them they see difference in resolution at distances that others don’t, maybe they do something special that a Sony 360es can’t do or their eyes are somehow super duper but for the rest of us mere mortals you need to move your seat closer than what most class as normal view distance.
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