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post #1 of 36 Old 11-09-2019, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Deciding between Benq TK800m and HT3550

So I decided to get back in the projector game after a few years and would like to hear some opinions from you guys on which one I should get. I'm big on 3D and my screen will be no more than about 100 to 120". Room is fairly dark (I got those darkening curtains). Also I tend to see the rainbow effect (saw it on my old Optoma from a few years back).

Which one do you guys think? Thanks!
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post #2 of 36 Old 11-09-2019, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by momofx View Post
So I decided to get back in the projector game after a few years and would like to hear some opinions from you guys on which one I should get. I'm big on 3D and my screen will be no more than about 100 to 120". Room is fairly dark (I got those darkening curtains). Also I tend to see the rainbow effect (saw it on my old Optoma from a few years back).

Which one do you guys think? Thanks!
Newer models with color wheel have improved on the RBE, but you need to experience one in person to see if it's still a problem.
What is the room size?
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post #3 of 36 Old 11-09-2019, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Room is about 20 × 26, the projector will have to go on the 20 ft side, ceiling mount. Yeah some reviewers said they don't see rbe with these newer models 🙂 Im kinda leaning towardsthe tk800m from my research so far but thought I would hear other opinions as well 🙂
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post #4 of 36 Old 11-09-2019, 03:31 PM
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Room is about 20 × 26, the projector will have to go on the 20 ft side, ceiling mount. Yeah some reviewers said they don't see rbe with these newer models 🙂 Im kinda leaning towardsthe tk800m from my research so far but thought I would hear other opinions as well 🙂
Can't read the room dimensions, come up with random numbers and digits:20 × 26.

What color are the room walls, ambient light, budget, seating position, general use (movies, gaming), source?
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post #5 of 36 Old 11-09-2019, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momofx View Post
So I decided to get back in the projector game after a few years and would like to hear some opinions from you guys on which one I should get. I'm big on 3D and my screen will be no more than about 100 to 120". Room is fairly dark (I got those darkening curtains). Also I tend to see the rainbow effect (saw it on my old Optoma from a few years back).

Which one do you guys think? Thanks!


Most all HD Optomas use an RGBCYW “2X” color wheel. All of the Quad shift 4K DLPs like the HT3550 and TK800M use a “4X” color wheel.

Still, you’ll want to make your purchase from a retailer with a generous return policy— just in case.
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post #6 of 36 Old 11-11-2019, 02:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Can't read the room dimensions, come up with random numbers and digits:20 × 26.

What color are the room walls, ambient light, budget, seating position, general use (movies, gaming), source?



The room dimensions are 20ft x 24ft x 7.5ft height. Walls are dark green, ceiling is gray, floor is gray, furniture is black. Use is mostly for movies, 3d movies and occasional Xbox. Blu-ray player is 4K.


Besides the projector (tk800m / HT3550 due to budget), I'm also deciding between a 110" or 120" screen mostly due to my low ceiling...
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Most all HD Optomas use an RGBCYW “2X” color wheel. All of the Quad shift 4K DLPs like the HT3550 and TK800M use a “4X” color wheel.

Still, you’ll want to make your purchase from a retailer with a generous return policy— just in case.

Sage11x, I was reading thru the tk850 thread and see that you are the guy with the info lol. Do you think the 850 will blow the 800m out of the water or should I be good with the 800m. Budget is another factor but I can make it happen if the 850 is really all that
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post #8 of 36 Old 11-11-2019, 05:16 AM
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The room dimensions are 20ft x 24ft x 7.5ft height. Walls are dark green, ceiling is gray, floor is gray, furniture is black. Use is mostly for movies, 3d movies and occasional Xbox. Blu-ray player is 4K.


Besides the projector (tk800m / HT3550 due to budget), I'm also deciding between a 110" or 120" screen mostly due to my low ceiling...
Projectors with RGBRGB color wheels will provide better colors, with pj's with non RGBRGB color wheels will have a brighter mode (even more inaccurate), with normal modes it might be dimmer than a unit with a RGBRGB color wheels.
Some non RGBRGB color wheel projectors are brighter, depends on the model. The TK800M is one such model.
More info on this topic:
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Vie...-4K-review.htm

Alternatives right now would be:
RGBRGB color wheels:
Optoma UHD51A/ UHD50
Viewsonic PX727-4K


Non RGBRGB color wheels:
Optoma UHD51ALV/52ALV
Viewsonic PX747-4K

The TK850 will probably be similar to the HT3550 the same way other non RGBRGB color wheels are to their counterparts.


All of these faux 4K have lag about 50-60ms, with some modes in some models at 30-40ms.

Seating distance?
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post #9 of 36 Old 11-11-2019, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Projectors with RGBRGB color wheels will provide better colors, with pj's with non RGBRGB color wheels will have a brighter mode (even more inaccurate), with normal modes it might be dimmer than a unit with a RGBRGB color wheels.
Some non RGBRGB color wheel projectors are brighter, depends on the model. The TK800M is one such model.
More info on this topic:
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Vie...-4K-review.htm

Alternatives right now would be:
RGBRGB color wheels:
Optoma UHD51A/ UHD50
Viewsonic PX727-4K


Non RGBRGB color wheels:
Optoma UHD51ALV/52ALV
Viewsonic PX747-4K

The TK850 will probably be similar to the HT3550 the same way other non RGBRGB color wheels are to their counterparts.


All of these faux 4K have lag about 50-60ms, with some modes in some models at 30-40ms.

Seating distance?

Thanks for your input - Seating is about 12 ft back from the front wall.
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post #10 of 36 Old 11-11-2019, 08:50 AM
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Thanks for your input - Seating is about 12 ft back from the front wall.
Any one of these wold be fine, for the TK850 you'll have to wait a while for reviews and consumer opinion.
Choosing between RGBRGB and non RGBRGB color wheels is also a factor. The TK850 is part of the latter.
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Any one of these wold be fine, for the TK850 you'll have to wait a while for reviews and consumer opinion.
Choosing between RGBRGB and non RGBRGB color wheels is also a factor. The TK850 is part of the latter.

Noob00224, I forgot to mention an important factor about my "movie room" that I just noticed. Even in bright sunlight, the room is pretty dark (It actually got even darker when we painted the walls a medium-dark green and the ceiling gray from being all white). Let's put it this way, even in the day time, its very hard to read a book or a newspaper in there and almost mandatory to turn the center ceiling light on.


I thought I would mention this, as it seems from what I put together from you and a little bit of research, maybe the HT3550 is better suited??



As far as RBE, I have been reading ALOT of mixed opinions on the web and here about the TK800/800m - some say they don't see it anymore at all (I lit up when I heard that lol) but then some say its still there....hmmmm I use to see it very little on an old optoma about 6 years ago, but alot has changed since then and this would be my 1st projector since then


Also just for the record, this is our dedicated movie room. Thanks again for your valued input.
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Noob00224, I forgot to mention an important factor about my "movie room" that I just noticed. Even in bright sunlight, the room is pretty dark (It actually got even darker when we painted the walls a medium-dark green and the ceiling gray from being all white). Let's put it this way, even in the day time, its very hard to read a book or a newspaper in there and almost mandatory to turn the center ceiling light on.


I thought I would mention this, as it seems from what I put together from you and a little bit of research, maybe the HT3550 is better suited??



As far as RBE, I have been reading ALOT of mixed opinions on the web and here about the TK800/800m - some say they don't see it anymore at all (I lit up when I heard that lol) but then some say its still there....hmmmm I use to see it very little on an old optoma about 6 years ago, but alot has changed since then and this would be my 1st projector since then


Also just for the record, this is our dedicated movie room. Thanks again for your valued input.
The TK800M and other non RGBRGB color wheel models are aimed at sports and environments with some ambient light.
Benq describes the TK800M on it's website: 4K Sports Projector with HDR10/HLG, 3000 Lumen | TK800M

It sacrifices color accuracy for brightness.
The link above comparing the two Viewsonic with different color wheels gives more info.

Regarding RBE, I saw it on a older model the first day, but haven't seen it since then. Find a retailer with a return policy to send it back if it's an issue.
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post #13 of 36 Old 11-12-2019, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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The TK800M and other non RGBRGB color wheel models are aimed at sports and environments with some ambient light.
Benq describes the TK800M on it's website: 4K Sports Projector with HDR10/HLG, 3000 Lumen | TK800M

It sacrifices color accuracy for brightness.
The link above comparing the two Viewsonic with different color wheels gives more info.

Regarding RBE, I saw it on a older model the first day, but haven't seen it since then. Find a retailer with a return policy to send it back if it's an issue.

Ok this is gonna come as twist, I thought I would ask you what do you think of the Epson 5040UB? I've been looking at that and I must say it does look very interesting even compared to the HT3550...
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Ok this is gonna come as twist, I thought I would ask you what do you think of the Epson 5040UB? I've been looking at that and I must say it does look very interesting even compared to the HT3550...
3LCD is not as good with motion handling and 3D as DLP. There have been some reports of the 5040UB and other 3LCD's having ghosting in 3D. So if 3D is a priority, DLP is the best.
Other than that, the refurbished 5040UB is a great value. It's got good black level, contrast, low lag, bright, motorized lenses with memory, bright. Only has a 10GB HDMI chip, so no 4K 60Hz HDR, 24Hz (30Hz) at the most. So it can't accept a 4K HDR 60Hz signal.
This unit has had issues with it's power supply, but warranty would help with that.
The HT3550 can display ~8 million pixels vs the ~4 million on the 5040UB (1080p has ~2m). Seating distance is relevant is this detail is going to be noticed, but sharpness (and general PQ) is influenced by lens quality and contrast.
A review between the HT3550 and the Epson HC4010 which is the next generation after HC4000 (5040UB without the black level) claimed the Epson provided an overall better PQ for SDR, with HDR being equal.
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Ben...inema-4010.htm
Motorized lenses on the Epson allows for CIH (constant image height) setups. With a 2.35:1 screen, users use the zoom to fit a 2.35:1 image. The projector displays a 16:9 image, so the top and bottom black bars will be outside the screen. When it's time to watch another format like 16:9 they zoom out, the image becomes smaller with black bars on the right and left. Keeping the zoom used for an 2.35:1 image and playing a 16:9 would make it too large. So you could have a 150" 2.35:1 screen, and an 120" 16:9 screen at the same time. The memory on the motorized lenses make this change easy. Painting the wall would make it easier to choose whatever size is desired.
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post #15 of 36 Old 11-13-2019, 01:37 AM
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Isn't the BenQ TK800M Projector is known for projecting games? Do you plan to use this for gaming or just for watching movies? Curious.
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@momofx another 3LCD option would be the Epson HC3200/3800.

Check out the comparison with the HT3550 here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...evealed-3.html

Reviews:
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Eps...tor-Review.htm
https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blo...is-de-gregory/
Scroll down for the english version. TW7100=HC3800
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Any one of these wold be fine, for the TK850 you'll have to wait a while for reviews and consumer opinion.
Choosing between RGBRGB and non RGBRGB color wheels is also a factor. The TK850 is part of the latter.


This is partly correct but the truth is a little confusing.

So, yes, as noob points out the TK800M and TK850 do not use an RGBRGB wheel. There is a white slice (or slices) in there that allow the projector to be more efficient (read: brighter). This comes at some cost to color accuracy/saturation. At least in the case of the TK850– how much yet we won’t know until we can get our hands on one but we know the 850 will not be capable of DCIP3 like it’s HT siblings.

But I want to be clear that this is not to say that the TK800M/TK850 use a “2X” color wheel like many popular 1080p DLPs and the Optoma UHD60. A “2x” wheel sees one full rotation for each pixel produced for an effective speed of 120Hz. All 4K .47” DMD (quad shift) DLPs are “4X”. This means that for each full rotation of the color wheel 2 pixels are produced for an effective speed of 240Hz. This is easier to understand when you consider that a 4K quad shift DLP needs to produce 4 full pixels for each full frame of 60Hz content. 4 times 60 is 240.

While actual color wheel composition will vary between models, all 4K quad shifts will get a red, green, blue and in some cases a white slice on each half rotation. In essence they will all be more or less resistant to RBE. Or, at least, much more resistant to RBE than the ‘slower’ 2X projectors.
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Sage11x, I was reading thru the tk850 thread and see that you are the guy with the info lol. Do you think the 850 will blow the 800m out of the water or should I be good with the 800m. Budget is another factor but I can make it happen if the 850 is really all that


Hard to say. What I will say is the jump from the Ht2550 to the HT3550 was just that: a jump. But the TK800M is an already improved version of the TK800... still, I’m expecting good things from the 850. I should hopefully be getting my hands on a review sample before the end of the month.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

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post #19 of 36 Old 11-13-2019, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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This is partly correct but the truth is a little confusing.

So, yes, as noob points out the TK800M and TK850 do not use an RGBRGB wheel. There is a white slice (or slices) in there that allow the projector to be more efficient (read: brighter). This comes at some cost to color accuracy/saturation. At least in the case of the TK850– how much yet we won’t know until we can get our hands on one but we know the 850 will not be capable of DCIP3 like it’s HT siblings.

But I want to be clear that this is not to say that the TK800M/TK850 use a “2X” color wheel like many popular 1080p DLPs and the Optoma UHD60. A “2x” wheel sees one full rotation for each pixel produced for an effective speed of 120Hz. All 4K .47” DMD (quad shift) DLPs are “4X”. This means that for each full rotation of the color wheel 2 pixels are produced for an effective speed of 240Hz. This is easier to understand when you consider that a 4K quad shift DLP needs to produce 4 full pixels for each full frame of 60Hz content. 4 times 60 is 240.

While actual color wheel composition will vary between models, all 4K quad shifts will get a red, green, blue and in some cases a white slice on each half rotation. In essence they will all be more or less resistant to RBE. Or, at least, much more resistant to RBE than the ‘slower’ 2X projectors.

Well I decided to reduce some of my confusion. There was guy selling a TK800 about an hour away from here so I went there and had him demo it for me. Wow, what a long way projectors have come I mean he was moving so he just projected it on a light GRAY wall and it still looked amazing to me compare to my old Optoma from about 10 years ago BUT.... it happened on very rare instances and a little more when he put on a 3D disc, that RBE came back to haunt me . So now I knew...


What about the TK800M and the HT3550? Think I will still see RBE?



I'm down to either the HT3550 or Epson 5040UB (yep gonna take my chance with that power supply lol).
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Well I decided to reduce some of my confusion. There was guy selling a TK800 about an hour away from here so I went there and had him demo it for me. Wow, what a long way projectors have come I mean he was moving so he just projected it on a light GRAY wall and it still looked amazing to me compare to my old Optoma from about 10 years ago BUT.... it happened on very rare instances and a little more when he put on a 3D disc, that RBE came back to haunt me . So now I knew...


What about the TK800M and the HT3550? Think I will still see RBE?



I'm down to either the HT3550 or Epson 5040UB (yep gonna take my chance with that power supply lol).


Honestly, I doubt the TK800M or HT3550 would be much different. The Ht3550 could actually be a little more noticeable if you run it at 24Hz.

If you’re that bothered by RBE than you may need to stick to a 3 chip projector. They aren’t nearly as sharp or as high resolution but they’re impervious to RBE.
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post #21 of 36 Old 11-15-2019, 03:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I got some good and bad news...


I got set on wanting the Epson 5040UB but then I did not feel comfortable with the unforseen random power supply problem it had and then the lower bandwidth HDMI also bothered me... Well I got tired of running in circles with decisions and trying to make my mind up so I think I owe it to myself for a ... 5050UB Yep, went ahead and made myself 100% content and pulled the trigger on it. My Christmas gift to myself I also call it going to work motivation lol.


The bad news??? I gotta make sure the ol lady feels the way I do. Now I know how some women feel when they have to break the news they're pregnant by surprise LOL.


Thanks for the help guys - I sure learned ALOT over these past few weeks. I'm extremely excited and anxious

Last edited by momofx; 11-15-2019 at 03:29 AM.
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Well I got some good and bad news...


I got set on wanting the Epson 5040UB but then I did not feel comfortable with the unforseen random power supply problem it had and then the lower bandwidth HDMI also bothered me... Well I got tired of running in circles with decisions and trying to make my mind up so I think I owe it to myself for a ... 5050UB Yep, went ahead and made myself 100% content and pulled the trigger on it. My Christmas gift to myself I also call it going to work motivation lol.


The bad news??? I gotta make sure the ol lady feels the way I do. Now I know how some women feel when they have to break the news they're pregnant by surprise LOL.


Thanks for the help guys - I sure learned ALOT over these past few weeks. I'm extremely excited and anxious
The 5050UB is a great unit, she will change her mind once she sees the picture .
Get a solid mount since this unit weighs ~25lbs.
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post #23 of 36 Old 11-22-2019, 08:51 AM
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Hard to say. What I will say is the jump from the Ht2550 to the HT3550 was just that: a jump. But the TK800M is an already improved version of the TK800... still, I’m expecting good things from the 850. I should hopefully be getting my hands on a review sample before the end of the month.
I currently have the 2050 - will I notice a huge jump in contrast with the 3550? What kind of a difference will I notice in my dedicated HT?
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post #24 of 36 Old 11-22-2019, 10:42 AM
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I currently have the 2050 - will I notice a huge jump in contrast with the 3550? What kind of a difference will I notice in my dedicated HT?
What does dedicated HT mean? What color are the walls? Light control?

There will not be a huge contrast jump from the HT2050.
Here is a review comparing the two:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post57659896

If you want an upgrade contrast wise the room has to be treated for wall reflections.

What is the budget?
Seating and projector distance to screen?
Source?
Any gaming? If yes, what type?
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post #25 of 36 Old 11-22-2019, 11:51 AM
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What does dedicated HT mean? What color are the walls? Light control?

There will not be a huge contrast jump from the HT2050.
Here is a review comparing the two:

If you want an upgrade contrast wise the room has to be treated for wall reflections.

What is the budget?
Seating and projector distance to screen?
Source?
Any gaming? If yes, what type?
HT = Home Theatre


Budget is under 2k. Source is mostly Apple TV and PS4 Pro, not alot of gaming - don't care about latency. I could treat the walls and ceiling. I thought though that the dynamic iris would increase black levels over previous Benq Models.


Thanks for the link to the comparison!


T
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post #26 of 36 Old 11-22-2019, 12:08 PM
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HT = Home Theatre


Budget is under 2k. Source is mostly Apple TV and PS4 Pro, not alot of gaming - don't care about latency. I could treat the walls and ceiling. I thought though that the dynamic iris would increase black levels over previous Benq Models.


Thanks for the link to the comparison!


T
I know what HT means obviously.
What color are the walls and is there any light in the room, like from shades?

If the room will not be treated then a projector with good blacks will have some improvement in contrast. It depends on many factors what the final result will be.
Demonstration:
https://www.facebook.com/projectiond...2721894385217/
And article:
https://projectiondream.com/en/contr...r-environment/

If you read sage's review it says there is a slight improvement from an HT2050 with the HT3550. His room is untreated. The projector still has poor native contrast and the room is not treated.

Any significant improvement will only come from treating the room.
In that case a refurbished 5040UB at just over 1K$ is a great option. Other Sony 1080p and older JVC and Epson 5xxx/6xxx are also options here.
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Last edited by noob00224; 11-22-2019 at 12:11 PM.
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
I know what HT means obviously.
What color are the walls and is there any light in the room, like from shades?

If the room will not be treated then a projector with good blacks will have some improvement in contrast. It depends on many factors what the final result will be.
Demonstration:


If you read sage's review it says there is a slight improvement from an HT2050 with the HT3550. His room is untreated. The projector still has poor native contrast and the room is not treated.

Any significant improvement will only come from treating the room.
In that case a refurbished 5040UB at just over 1K$ is a great option. Other Sony 1080p and older JVC and Epson 5xxx/6xxx are also options here.
I'm afraid I read your question too fast. My apologies.



By dedicated HT I mean it is mostly light controlled and elusively for movies and Streaming. The walls are a mid tone tope (Called Barnboard from Benjamin Moore). The ceiling is lighter and I've been thinking or painting it darker for that reason. No light at all - it's completely darkened.


From reading the review, I got the impression that the contrast was a significant improvement over the 2550, which was an upgrade from the 2050. The only time the 2050 was mentioned in the relevant sections was for motion processing.


I've been considering the epsons too but I've had good luck with BENQ, so I don't really want to jump ship if I can help it, but I will consider your advice.
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post #28 of 36 Old 11-22-2019, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyler Brown View Post
I'm afraid I read your question too fast. My apologies.



By dedicated HT I mean it is mostly light controlled and elusively for movies and Streaming. The walls are a mid tone tope (Called Barnboard from Benjamin Moore). The ceiling is lighter and I've been thinking or painting it darker for that reason. No light at all - it's completely darkened.


From reading the review, I got the impression that the contrast was a significant improvement over the 2550, which was an upgrade from the 2050. The only time the 2050 was mentioned in the relevant sections was for motion processing.


I've been considering the epsons too but I've had good luck with BENQ, so I don't really want to jump ship if I can help it, but I will consider your advice.

Benq does not make projectors with good blacks, the HT3550/5550 come the closest to that, at least in the sub 3$K range.
The iris helps out, but I would not call it huge by any stretch.
The Epson 5040UB in a treated room would be noticeably superior to the 3550, even to the 5550.

That color tone on the walls is better than white, but the more reflections are absorbed the better black level the projector can display (if it's capable).

Here is a discussion between the Sony HW45, Epson HC3800 (which is not a great contrast unit with an iris), and an HT3550.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post58720000
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post #29 of 36 Old 11-22-2019, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Benq does not make projectors with good blacks, the HT3550/5550 come the closest to that, at least in the sub 3$K range.
The iris helps out, but I would not call it huge by any stretch.
The Epson 5040UB in a treated room would be noticeably superior to the 3550, even to the 5550.

That color tone on the walls is better than white, but the more reflections are absorbed the better black level the projector can display (if it's capable).

Here is a discussion between the Sony HW45, Epson HC3800 (which is not a great contrast unit with an iris), and an HT3550.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post58720000
The actual on-screen differences in contrast are always less than the measured specs between projectors. HDR content is likely to show less variation than non-HDR content.
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post #30 of 36 Old 11-22-2019, 01:38 PM
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The actual on-screen differences in contrast are always less than the measured specs between projectors. HDR content is likely to show less variation than non-HDR content.

Also the 5040UB has a dark HDR implementation, the 1080p's don't accept a HDR signal, but the Benq's have a good HDR tone mapper.
Madvr DTM can help with the 5040UB and 1080p's HDR content.
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