Hello. I'm thinking to buy my first 1080p projector. mostly for watching movies and sometimes TV football games. Mostly it will be 1080p movies downloaded from internet and streamed from my iMac. Also I want to stream youtube from my iPhone or iPad. I'm thinking to buy sony hw45es (if someone thinks that I should buy another model, please say it. You can see my room in attached pictures. I can control most of the light in my living room. Here is the list of used projector that are available for me. My budget is around 2000 dollars.


1. Sony HW45es (new) 2000$
2. JVC DLA X55 (used lamp is 720 hours) 1200$
3. Epson eh-tw 9100 (used) 1100$
4. Sony VPL-HW40 (used, but with extra lamp) 1050$
5. Sony VPL-HW50es (used, but with extra lamp) 900$
6. Sony VPL-HW30es (used, but with extra lamp) 700$


Any advice? Greetings from Norway!

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If you are in Norway you should be looking at buying from the UK, doing a google search shows up companies here selling new ones significantly less than RRP prices.

Drop me a PM and I’ll send you the link.

P.S. Based on your room conditions your white walls and ceiling a lot of reflective light will be coming back at the screen and on a regular screen you'll lose contrast, I would seriously consider spending money on a decent ALR (Ambient Light Reflective) screen, this will play to the strengths of the Sony meaning it's blacks and contrast.

Don't compromise contrast by going for a DLP projector that doesn't offer much in the way of blacks just because your room isn't ideal, look for the solution that gives back the contrast you are losing and an ALR screen does that.... plus you'll be able to watch stuff in daylight which is something you definitely couldn't enjoy with a white screen.

Are you limited to just those models?

I bought a Sony HW45es two years ago and have never regretted it. It puts up a beautiful picture - no major flaws as far as I'm concerned. Since then, I have read about new projectors coming out, but nothing in it's price class has tempted me.


My bias is to buy new for something like a projector. You never know why someone returned or sold it - the used ones may have a problem.

im not limited

There are a few issues with this setup:

1.A projector with good black/shadow level like the Sony HW45ES will have said black/shadow level washed out by the light reflections on the walls.
I say a HW65ES (45ES with an iris) in a room with white walls, and the black levels were similar to my Benq W2000 (HT3050).
Demonstration:
https://www.facebook.com/projectiond...2721894385217/

Room treatment consists of dark paint or dark fabrics. The area that if treated will benefit a projector the most is closest to the screen (walls, ceiling, floor, screen wall), around 2m/6ft from the screen.

2.1080p is fine, but why not 4K? There is lots of material coming out in 4K.
4K can be had for under 2K$.

3.What is the source of the projector? How will the iPhone/iPad and iMac be connected to the projector?

4.What is the desired location of the screen? If the TV going to stay there? What about the cabinet?
Drop down screen or fixed?
Eye sight should be around 1/3rd from the bottom of the screen. This is adjusted by the position seating position, if the seat reclines then the center view shifts upwards.

5.Screen size.
There is no universal screen size to distance ratio, it's user specific. It's recommended the projector is used for a few weeks on a wall to see what is acceptable.
A very general recommendation is 10-12 inches of diagonal per foot in distance. That would make 120 to 144 inch screen. But this is very general.

6.Can the left speaker be moved to the edge of the wall?

7. Some people are susceptible to an effect of DLP projectors called RBE/rainbow effect. This has been greatly reduced in recent models, but until you see one you won't know.
Have you ever seen a DLP projector or can you see one at a store/somewhere else?

Hello and thank you for you reply. Here is my answers:
1. I could afford HW65es im jus not sure If I need it. If it will perform better in rooms with white walls, so I could by this model. Also I could paint my white walls and ceiling into something grey, but I think for me its better to buy projector which give better picture in rooms like mine.

2. 1080p because I have access to a lot of 1080p movies in my native language. And I dont have equipment to run 4K. Mostly it will be watched 1080p movies and TV footbal games, which are not 4K. When a lot of material will come in 4K maybe in 5years, so then I can buy another prjector

3. Sources? I will buy AVR and thinking to stream from my imac or ipad via apple TV or airplay2 or via LAN(if AVR has LAN connection). Not sure about streaming yet. All my movies sits on hard drive on my iMac and I play them usin VLC player.

4. Tv is going to stay there. Thinking about motorized drop down screen. 120 or 133 inches white screen. Cabinet can be moved to another place and speaker could be moved to the left. So available space for screen after moving things would be 280cmx180cm.


So what do you think? Im wiaiting for black friday and looking to buy nice 1080p projector!?

@olisko mate seriously consider getting yourself an ALR screen to combat the white walls and ceiling, I was very fortunate to have a room dedicated to my projector and could cover all my walls and ceiling with black velour. It's not a cheap solution and completely changes the ambience of the room, a simple screen change gives you back your room and gives you the all important black levels that the Sony has over any DLP 4K projector even remotely near the price of the Sony.

Go to Youtube and search ALR screens vs white, you will be shocked how much of a difference it will make.

The HW65 is a projector with good blacks, just like the HW45.
The Benq W2000 has poor/mediocre blacks.

My point was unless the room is treated for reflections, the blacks would be poor, or mediocre at best.

The facebook video illustrates what reflections from walls do to black level.
There is no projector which will give good blacks in a room like that. In an untreated room the blacks will be sacrificed.


For 1080p, three models come to mind, the Benq W1120 (HT2050A US), Epson TW6700 (HC3700 US) and Epson TW7400 (HC4010 US).
For calculations:
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Ben...ulator-pro.htm
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Eps...ulator-pro.htm
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Eps...ulator-pro.htm

The Epsons are brighter and have cheaper lamps (TW6700 at least). The Benq has better motion handling and is sharper.


For the screen, a grey screen will make the picture slightly darker for better blacks. This will work better with the Epson since it's brighter.

An ALR screen will give better blacks than a white screen, but less than a grey screen.
At that throw distance it will very likely have a hotspot. The minimum throw distance for some ALR screens is 1.5x (screen width), and I'm not sure if it can be achieved in that setup.
Even at 1.5x it will have a hotspot.

Screen width for an 120" screen is 265.7cm. 265.7 x 1.5=398.55cm This is there the lens should be.
http://screen-size.info/

Nether the grey or ALR screens will be better than a white screen in room treated for wall reflections.


If the room will be untreated, possible combinations are:
Benq W1120 + white screen.
Epson TW6700 + grey screen.
Epson TW7400 + grey screen.

The TW7400 is rather large and heavy (12kg).

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Thank you. A lot of information. I was looking for screens and prices are quite high for ALR screens I was thinking how could I treat my room. The biggest white thing in my room is white ceiling, so If i paint my ceiling and one small wall in light grey color? would it help? Then I could use sony 45es with white screen? Or should I leave the ceiling white and buy epson TW9100 (found used one in neibourghood) and grey screen? Also would grey screen help if i watch something on daytime but with curtains closed??
And would I feel the big difference between sony45 and for example espon9100
Also I have oportuninty to buy used in my neibourghood sony50es with extra lamp, and JVC x55. Or maybe not to buy used ones, because they are OLD??? So its hard to decide about projector and screen.. so much information.. ]

FYI..

Sony projectors are prone to severe lamp blinking.. So if you are willing to forego the advertising bs of lamp life,and a real life use of max 1500-2000hrs lamp cycle, then by all means go sony.. I am really happy with the image quality of my 65es,but the lamp flickering is costly and extremely annoying.


Also the Epson tends to have a bit of fan noise,so if you plan on sitting in close proximity to the projector,take that into account.


And you will get best result painting your walls and ceiling about 6feet from screen dead matte in dark color.. I use a matte charcoal grey,but i got a bat cave.

The TW9100 was launched in 2012, that's 7, almost 8 years ago.
How much was it used? If it was not used that much do you trust them? And for 1100$?
Same for the other projectors.
No warranty.
Lamps for Sony and JVC in particular are expensive - 400-700$ per lamp.
Like @Tsunamijhoe says, there have been instances where Sony lamps have had flickering.
Lamps for JVC have recently gotten better, but older ones get dim much quicker, 1000h or so.



Basically the reflections from the walls will wash out any black detail a projector might put out. These reflections will affect even a budget projector with poor blacks, not to mention something with good blacks like the Sony HW45.

Unless the room can be treated for reflections, getting something like the Sony/JVC is a waste of money.
Dark paints at the least, black velvet ideally.
Painting the ceiling light grey is going to do something, but not a lot.
The areas that will affect the screen the most are around the screen, 2m/6ft. Including the floor, and the wall behind the screen. A dark colored rug can be used for floor.


Daytime/nighttime does not matter if light does not get past the curtains.
If it does, then depending on the amount and intensity it will wash out the picture. The light from the shades/ceiling lights must not hit the screen directly.

A grey screen will help with minimal ambient light, but the projector needs to be bright. The Sony HW45/Benq W1120 are not that bright. The Epson's are.
The Epson TW7300 and TW6700 do not have good blacks. The Epson TW9300 does, but that might be over the budget.
TW9300=good blacks and bright.

As I noted above:
A treated room + Sony HW45 + white screen.
A treated room + Epson TW9300 + white/grey screen.
A treated room/untreated room (treating the room will help in a projector with poor blacks) + Benq W1120 + White screen.
A treated room/untreated room (treating the room will help in a projector with poor blacks) + Epson TW7300/6700 + Grey screen.

Some examples of grey paints and ambient light:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...l#post46962857
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...l#post46962857

LE: if you want to read more about projector use in ambient light:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...ent-light.html

LE2: Here is an add for an TW9100 for a third of what the person in your neighborhood is asking:
https://www.avforums.com/threads/eps...ector.2256407/

LE3: They grey paints in the link above will outperform a grey screen.

Was also thinking about the Sony hw45 after hearing that the 4K projectors in this price range have very compromised black levels and contrast. It’s a tough choice because there IS much more 4K material on streaming and TV now and will figure to be mainstream in the next few years. But even so way better black levels should throw a better picture than somewhat better detail I would expect.

I own the Sony 40es and as another poster stated the lamp blinking will drive you crazy. I don’t know if the newer 45es does this. I’d research before I purchased one. Other than that these are great projectors.

@olisko , this is basically what @noob00224 is suggesting which I might add is extremely affective.



I have since covered the window will black velvet as the white frame of the velux caught my eye, I’ve also covered the radiator and bought a kill ass black rug to complete the treatment and this is the kind of black you will achieve from a Sony with such a commitment.



This is extreme for our hobby and is all well and good in a room set aside for this sole purpose but I personally wouldn’t recommend it in a normal room. Looking at your room, is it a bedroom? If so it appears the bed is slightly off centre to where the screen will be... if it’s your intention to watch from the bed then probably a grey screen would be a better option, the colour you have painted the wall behind the TV if you can do similar on the ceiling too and then fit a curtain rail on either side wall the full length of the room and get black velvet curtains floor to ceiling so you can pull them when you want to watch a movie, this might be the best option that has the least affect on the current rooms appearance, no one want a dark dungeon all the time. lol

Of course if you can paint the ceiling dark grey and the side curtain a white screen will be perfectly good enough and cheaper too as there’s a great range of white screens than grey.

Do you intend to replace the TV with a projector or will you be using both, if a pull down screen then take a bit of advice and get a tab-tension one, my first screen was a cheap electric one without the tab-tensioning and no matter what I did I couldn’t get the waves out of it.

Here’s a white 120” tab-tension that might fit the bill

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F252662841022

Here’s my Sony HW45es in my at the time untreated room with was mid-dark grey walls and ceiling with grey/blue carpet. As you can see there’s reflection even with Matt grey paint and the same will be true for even black paint though less so.



Here’s same disc only this time with lights on.



As you can see the image is washed out looking, a grey screen will give you this back but you will have to use high lamp mode for daytime use or with lights on.

thank you for so much information! Me and my family decided to treat our living room. So no worries about reflections and ambient light. So now Im thinking to buy 120" dreamscreen white motorized with tab tension and Sony HW45es. Will it be good choice?!

P.S. I see people are talking about some problems with sony projectors SXRD Degradation and lamp flickering.. so maybe I should add more money to my budget and look at Epson TW9300? but its already 4K projector? I need 1080p projector!

Not too familiar with the state of panel degradation, but the lamp issue has been reported to happen.
There is a thread here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...panels-75.html

The TW9300 is a 4K enhanced projector, which means it's a 1080p unit that can create a 4K image. The 4K enhancement can be turned off and the projector will be at 1080p.
Looking at the prices in the UK the TW9300 seems to have the same price as the TW9400. The 9400 an upgrade to the 9300. If it's the same price get the 9400.
Don't know about Norway.

Not sure what the price for any of these are locally, by the HW45ES is on a discount for BF (in a EU country).

The Epson TW9300/9400 is 12kg in weight, so a mount that can support that is needed.

Not familiar with Dreamscreen brand, maybe someone who is can comment.

I'm not sure if I'm confused by a HW40 in the UK is like £400 second hand whilst the epson 9400 is like £2,000... surely the HW40ES provides way higher value and is the same PQ of the 45 or am i wrong?

(im sure im wrong)

Not sure what you mean.

The HW45 is a newer model than the 40.
The TW9400 is a 4K model. It has better blacks than both the 40 and 45.

As far as I've read, the HW45 and HW40 are very similar apart some QOL improvements or am I wrong?

Yes I know, but the TW9400 (and 9300) is in a completely different price range. I don't know how its entering the conversation lol.

There are some incremental differences:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...successor.html

Yeah I've actually read that already. As was stated by a lot of users, the differences seemed minimal apart from the way 3D was transmitted which is why I wanted advice on what I'd have to buy to get some good 3D support on the HW40 whether its glasses or a new transmitter.

OP,
I've owned and seen these models in action:
Epson 5040UB (faux-4k)
BenQ HT3050
Most of the Sony 2k models (practically the entire HW line from HW10 to HW65)
Most of the JVC line 2k and 4k; my current one is RS500.

You can get a refurb Epson from the Epson site., just a bit over $1k if you're into 4k.
BenQ is a very bright DLP, but my DW who is the 1% can see RBE with headache while I'm the 5% who can see them but is not a big deal with a 6x wheel.
I just sold the HW65 due to the latest lamp; it still flicker sometimes. However, I did not own the HW40 or 45. Since you're using the LR, it's not critical to have an active iris. Save yourself some money. Used HW65 does not have much value added based on my limited experience.
I love my JVC for its holy grail black, even better and brighter than my old RS45. Someone is selling a used JVC RS400 calibrated for a song in the classified section. This will blow the doors of the Sony HW45 in terms of contrast.
On a separate note, I sold my buddy a Sony HW50 who is trying to unload for cheap after upgrading to the Epson. The HW45 is brighter but contrast is worse since there is no iris.

Yes, Sony and JVC lamps are not cheap, comparing to Epson and BenQ. Bang for the buck, BenQ is geat but has very limited zoom and adjustments.

GL.

you wrote so much information with some words that I can not understand What you mean "save yourself money? You say that I should buy used projector? I live in Norway, so I can find used ones. I don't need 4K projector. I need good 1080p. projector.

Sorry, I did not know that you're in Norway. RBE means rainbow effect; Google it (comes with DLP technology like BenQ).
Since you're looking for a 2k projector, the Sony HW45 would work. Do not bother with the HW30 or HW50 since they are not as bright. In your room set up, contrast is not as critical. The HW40 with the extra lamp is a good buy; it's almost as bright as the HW45.

Overall, SXRD/LCoS technology from Sony and JVC projects a better movies viewing experience than DLP and LCD, in my opinion. For sports, I like BenQ.

OP mentioned he intends to treat the room.

Not sure if the Epson 5040UB refurbished can be purchased in Europe.
The TW9300 refurbished does not appear on Epson's website, but I did find a store:
https://www.richersounds.com/epson-eh-tw9300-1.html

The TW9300 is the non US version of the 6040UB, a slightly better version of the 5040UB.

You are saying that I should also consider buying Epson TW9300? It would be better than Sony 45 for watching movies in 1080p?

Both of these projectors are 1080p. The Epson TW9300/9400 has a 4K enhancer which can create a 4K image. This enhancer can be turned OFF.
The Epson is brighter than any of the Sony's and has an active iris. It should have better blacks, or equal to the Sony's with an iris.
The HW50/55/65 have active irises which help with black level.

Consider the TW9300 only if it's refurbished at just over 1$K.
When I checked for prices for new TW9300, it was close to the TW9400.


If you can find a Sony HW40/45/50/55/65 refurbished or used for under 1$K that would be fine. Price wise the link above with the used section for the UK had an HW40 used for ~500$.

The first post mentioned a HW50es used and a spare lamp for 900$. A bit expensive.
A HW40es for 1040$ definitely not.
Lamps for the Sony can be more expensive, and can have a flicker issue.
Epson lamps are a bit cheaper.

Since you room could be modified or controlled for night viewing, an active iris would help. JVC produces jaw dropping contrast for the money. My analogy is that JVC is like a Porsche, Sony a BMW and Epson a Corvette.

As for the case of Sony's HW30, HW50 and HW65, my first hand experience is incremental improvement in contrast, brightness and sharpness. However, I lost my shirt by dumping the HW65 due to the issue of lamp flickering even after 400 hours of usage. Not sure if that is the case with the HW40 and HW45. All 3 put out much higher lumens, but not sure if they had "designed" the voltage regulator or other parts to juice the output. Your mileage may vary.

Note: all manufacturers have issues. It's really dumb luck after over 30 projectors in 18 years.