How do you guys sync the audio? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 10 Old 11-13-2019, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Question How do you guys sync the audio?

As I play video from various sources, I often find the audio is out of sync. This is extremely annoying and I find I'm not very good at fixing it. And if I ever change the settings on my projector (i.e. frame interpolation (Sony HW 45ES)), then that will again change what the delay should be... I use trial and error: I keep stopping the movie to advance or delay the audio by 50 ms, 100 ms etc... and may be a third of the way done with the movie before I think I've nailed it.



Do you have any tricks or suggestions as to how to ensure that the audio is in sync?
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post #2 of 10 Old 11-13-2019, 08:12 PM
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What are you using for your audio. Most modern AVR's have an Auto lip sync feature, I almost never have a lip sync issue with my Marantz AVR. Sometime the source is out of wack and it's just trial and error to get it to match. If your using Bluetooth your causing your own problems as it adds too much delay and should never be used for Video if possible.

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post #3 of 10 Old 11-13-2019, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rekbones View Post
What are you using for your audio. Most modern AVR's have an Auto lip sync feature, I almost never have a lip sync issue with my Marantz AVR. Sometime the source is out of wack and it's just trial and error to get it to match. If your using Bluetooth your causing your own problems as it adds too much delay and should never be used for Video if possible.
Interesting. I have a Denon AVR-S510BT. The video goes through the AVR and out to the projector from that. If the projector causes a delay, how does the AVR know to compensate for it?



Yeah, most of the time it's the source. I'm not using bluetooth.
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post #4 of 10 Old 11-13-2019, 09:54 PM
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Interesting question. Apparently its an HDMI feed back function. In the settings for my Marantz it is in the HDMI settings called Auto lip sync and it's on by default. I took a look at the manual for your Denon and it apparently doesn't have this function. This definitely corrects for delays caused by the display device because when I switch between my JVC w/120ms lag and my Mitsubishi with very low lag it syncs perfectly if the source is in sync. If the source is out of sync of course it doesn't work.

EDIT: For those sources that are badly out of sync usually from streaming poor content I use KODI and it's fairly easy using KODI's audio delay function with my mouse slider to compensate fairly easily so I never have to go into the AVR menus.

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post #5 of 10 Old 11-13-2019, 10:04 PM
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Have you adjusted the audio delay in your AVR? I see it in the manual.

Each input on the AVR will have an audio delay setting between 0-200ms on your Denon. As long as each source remains consistent, it's a set and forget. If sources change audio sync, nothing helps.

"I keep stopping the movie to advance or delay the audio by 50 ms, 100 ms etc... "
This perplexes me; are you getting drift that requires you to stop occasionally to let the audio catch up?

Have fun,
Frank

PS I don't see "lip sync" in your manual.
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post #6 of 10 Old 11-13-2019, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rekbones View Post
Interesting question. Apparently its an HDMI feed back function. In the settings for my Marantz it is in the HDMI settings called Auto lip sync and it's on by default. I took a look at the manual for your Denon and it apparently doesn't have this function. This definitely corrects for delays caused by the display device because when I switch between my JVC w/120ms lag and my Mitsubishi with very low lag it syncs perfectly if the source is in sync. If the source is out of sync of course it doesn't work.

EDIT: For those sources that are badly out of sync usually from streaming poor content I use KODI and it's fairly easy using KODI's audio delay function with my mouse slider to compensate fairly easily so I never have to go into the AVR menus.
Good to know. That feature seems like it might be useful enough to go for a new AVR :/
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post #7 of 10 Old 11-13-2019, 11:14 PM
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I thought sound sync was just a BT problem, so even for wired Audio the problem exist.
Does the quality of the HDMI cable have an effect on that?

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post #8 of 10 Old 11-14-2019, 12:01 AM
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I use a Leo Bodnar lag tester to determine the input lag then adjust the AVR's audio delay accordingly.
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post #9 of 10 Old 11-14-2019, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpj6st View Post
Interesting. I have a Denon AVR-S510BT. The video goes through the AVR and out to the projector from that. If the projector causes a delay, how does the AVR know to compensate for it?



Yeah, most of the time it's the source. I'm not using bluetooth.

Audio sync or lip-sync was added to the HDMI spec starting with version 1.3 forward.

From HDMI ORG:
"The HDMI 1.3 specification more than doubles HDMI’s bandwidth and adds support for Deep Color™ technology, a broader color space, new digital audio formats, automatic audio/video synching capability (“lip sync”), and an optional smaller connector for use with personal photo and video devices. The update reflects the determination of the HDMI founders to ensure HDMI continues evolving ahead of future consumer demands."

For this to work, all devices must be HDMI v1.3-1.3a or better. Unfortunately, it's not perfect and timing errors can sill exist. This can be or usually can be corrected via the AVR. I've yet to see an AVR that supports HDMI v1.3 that does not have audio delay settings capability.

Your Denon AVR-S510BT also has this feature. You are able to set audio delay or audio sync (lip-sync) from 0ms – 200ms for each source input as well as store the setting for each source input. It's on page 72 of the AVR-S510BT manual.

Starting with HDMI 2.0, dynamic synchronization of video and audio streams has been added. HDMI ORG is calling it dynamic auto lip-sync or DALS.

DALS is a dynamic system where receiving devices, the SINK, transmit latency information for audio and video to the EDID field. Transmitting devices, the SOURCE, will synchronize based on the EDID latency field information. The HDMI 2.0 DALS feature allows SINK devices to announce their latency information at any point in transmission, continuous updates, so that the SOURCE devices are aware of the correct latency.
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post #10 of 10 Old 11-14-2019, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post
Audio sync or lip-sync was added to the HDMI spec starting with version 1.3 forward.

From HDMI ORG:
"The HDMI 1.3 specification more than doubles HDMI’s bandwidth and adds support for Deep Color™ technology, a broader color space, new digital audio formats, automatic audio/video synching capability (“lip sync”), and an optional smaller connector for use with personal photo and video devices. The update reflects the determination of the HDMI founders to ensure HDMI continues evolving ahead of future consumer demands."

For this to work, all devices must be HDMI v1.3-1.3a or better. Unfortunately, it's not perfect and timing errors can sill exist. This can be or usually can be corrected via the AVR. I've yet to see an AVR that supports HDMI v1.3 that does not have audio delay settings capability.

Your Denon AVR-S510BT also has this feature. You are able to set audio delay or audio sync (lip-sync) from 0ms – 200ms for each source input as well as store the setting for each source input. It's on page 72 of the AVR-S510BT manual.

Starting with HDMI 2.0, dynamic synchronization of video and audio streams has been added. HDMI ORG is calling it dynamic auto lip-sync or DALS.

DALS is a dynamic system where receiving devices, the SINK, transmit latency information for audio and video to the EDID field. Transmitting devices, the SOURCE, will synchronize based on the EDID latency field information. The HDMI 2.0 DALS feature allows SINK devices to announce their latency information at any point in transmission, continuous updates, so that the SOURCE devices are aware of the correct latency.
I was aware of how to set the audio delay, but was having trouble getting satisfactory results. It turns out that my WOW calibration disc has a setting for adjusting the AV sync. When I used that, I had to set the audio delay for 150 ms. I then discovered the same AV sync pattern on Youtube just by searching for "av sync". It also turns out that I can access Youtube from both my Tivo and Amazon Fire TV... So I tested these devices with the same av sync pattern.



My Tivo needed the same delay of 150 ms. However, the amazon fire TV was perfectly synced... Hmm. It also wouldn't let me change the audio delay on the Fire TV.



After some experimentation, it turns out that if I change the AVR's Sound Mode to "Direct," then the sync seems to be spot-on regardless of which device I am using (and the AVR won't let me adjust it). If I set the Sound Mode to something else, say "DTS Surround", then I have to dial in a 150 ms delay.


I have no idea why this is. I am using frame interpolation on my projector which should be introducing about a ~100-150 ms delay that I should need to compensate for. The only thing I can think of is that the AVR is doing this automatically when the Sound Mode is set to "Direct".


Anyway, I'm going to leave it set to "Direct" and see how it goes.




Thanks to everyone who replied!
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