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post #1 of 35 Old 12-06-2019, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Project newbie

I am new to the projector world and am looking at getting my first projector.
I would mainly be using it for my Xbox One S (games and Netflix mostly).
The room will have some ambient light with the ability to block most but not all.
I have been researching myself in circles with everything to consider.
My price range is around $800 USD.
I have seen many reviews on the Optoma GT1080Darbee for its gaming performance and DarbeeVision and found that a successor was recently released, the GT1080HDR.

So I am at a toss-up between two projectors: the GT1080Darbee and GT1080HDR. (Unless I am totally off, in which case I am open to suggestions)
Due to the HDR one being released recently there are not many reviews out for it. From what I have been able to find people have stated the Darbee will have better depth due to the DarbeeVision. But my assumption would be that the HDR would be better as it is the successor of the Darbee and by the specs, it looks like a significant upgrade.
Does the HDR have DarbeeVision capabilities or something similar?
Or is the HDR just all-around better or worse?

Again, open to suggestions.
Thanks.
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post #2 of 35 Old 12-07-2019, 12:24 AM
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The main flaw in the Optoma's is the 2x RGBW color wheel. The BenQ 2150st with a 4x RGBRGB wheel is the most often recommended short throw projector here so you should also look into it. Projectors are incapable of displaying HDR so it comes down to what can "tone map" better the projector or the source like a good blue ray player. Wide color gamut is also a factor in UHD signals and most entry level projectors can't display that either. As far as Darbee some like the processed look some don't and you can get an external one if you like. Optoma's are popular but also look at the BenQ also.
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post #3 of 35 Old 12-07-2019, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rekbones View Post
The main flaw in the Optoma's is the 2x RGBW color wheel. The BenQ 2150st with a 4x RGBRGB wheel is the most often recommended short throw projector here so you should also look into it. Projectors are incapable of displaying HDR so it comes down to what can "tone map" better the projector or the source like a good blue ray player. Wide color gamut is also a factor in UHD signals and most entry level projectors can't display that either. As far as Darbee some like the processed look some don't and you can get an external one if you like. Optoma's are popular but also look at the BenQ also.
Thank you @rekbones .
I was looking at the BenQ 2150ST as well, but it was released back in 2016 and that made me second guess it.
I didn't even consider looking into if projectors were able to display HDR. Thank you for that information.
The Optoma site says that the GT1080HDR uses an RGBCYW colour wheel, and I got lost trying to decide between the BenQ and the new Optoma with the two different colour wheel options.
I did end up ordering the Optoma GT1080HDR from Amazon on impulse just before your post(should arrive this week), but it was only because of the ability to return it if it is not what I wanted.
I went with the Optoma because it boasted gaming mode at 120hz refresh rate and the ability to take a 4k signal and downscale which should theoretically produce a better image than straight 1080p.
My girlfriend and I would mostly be using it for Netflix on my Xbox which can stream a 4k signal but would like the ability to play games (like assassins creed, resident evil, COD, etc) so the refresh rate and really low input lag seemed like a bonus.

I bought GT1080HDR for roughly $1200 CAD(including tax), would it be better to return the Optoma and buy the BenQ for $1050 and invest the other $150 on a good screen?

Will the quality of the BenQ's RGBRGB surpass that of the new Optoma?
Additionally, what would be a good screen to go for? (I was looking at either 100 or 120 inches diagonal 16:9)
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post #4 of 35 Old 12-08-2019, 01:20 AM
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RBE is one concern as if you are prone to see it, most aren't, with a 2x color wheel but what ever you do don't look for it just watch the picture and if it isn't obvious don't worry about it. You defiantly won't see a night and day difference between them and the ability to receive a UHD source is a bonus even if it won't make a whole lot of deference in PQ.

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post #5 of 35 Old 12-08-2019, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braydon Berthelet View Post
Thank you @rekbones .
I was looking at the BenQ 2150ST as well, but it was released back in 2016 and that made me second guess it.
I didn't even consider looking into if projectors were able to display HDR. Thank you for that information.
The Optoma site says that the GT1080HDR uses an RGBCYW colour wheel, and I got lost trying to decide between the BenQ and the new Optoma with the two different colour wheel options.
I did end up ordering the Optoma GT1080HDR from Amazon on impulse just before your post(should arrive this week), but it was only because of the ability to return it if it is not what I wanted.
I went with the Optoma because it boasted gaming mode at 120hz refresh rate and the ability to take a 4k signal and downscale which should theoretically produce a better image than straight 1080p.
My girlfriend and I would mostly be using it for Netflix on my Xbox which can stream a 4k signal but would like the ability to play games (like assassins creed, resident evil, COD, etc) so the refresh rate and really low input lag seemed like a bonus.

I bought GT1080HDR for roughly $1200 CAD(including tax), would it be better to return the Optoma and buy the BenQ for $1050 and invest the other $150 on a good screen?

Will the quality of the BenQ's RGBRGB surpass that of the new Optoma?
Additionally, what would be a good screen to go for? (I was looking at either 100 or 120 inches diagonal 16:9)
The Benq's color wheel will offer better color than the Optoma, but the Optoma will still look good.
The Benq can only do 60Hz with a 16ms response time, whereas the Optoma can do 120Hz and 8.4ms (gaming mode).
Optoma will be brighter.

Neither projectors can display "HDR".
Neither have WCG, or 4K.
What the Optoma can do is accept a HDR10 signal and downconvert the resolution from 4K to 1080p, the WCG to Rec.709, and tone map the image to the projector's brightness capabilities.

LE: as for the image difference between a 1080p signal and a 4K HDR signal on a projector:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post
There can be a positive difference if the projector offers good tone mapping.

- Jason

Last edited by noob00224; 12-08-2019 at 02:07 AM.
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post #6 of 35 Old 12-08-2019, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you @noob00224

I will try out the Optoma and see how it feels. It should arrive in the next week.
Since the projector is brighter, would it be good to get a grey screen? or stick with white?
Should I stick with a 1080p screen or would I benefit from a 4k screen with the 4k downscaling?
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post #7 of 35 Old 12-08-2019, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braydon Berthelet View Post
Thank you @noob00224

I will try out the Optoma and see how it feels. It should arrive in the next week.
Since the projector is brighter, would it be good to get a grey screen? or stick with white?
Should I stick with a 1080p screen or would I benefit from a 4k screen with the 4k downscaling?

The screen size should be selected after using the projector on a wall for a few weeks.

This unit is bright and a grey screen could work, but it depends how large the screen is and the gain of the screen.

Try out a 4K source vs a 1080p and see what looks better. It's up to the projector (and the user).
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post #8 of 35 Old 12-08-2019, 04:46 PM
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My experience with this Projector (Optoma HD39HDR) has been pretty positive over the last 6 or so weeks. (After calibrating White/Black level in a dedicated 100% light controlled environment)

I recently converted a room into a dedicated Theater & I wanted to get back into Front Projection.

Since I was crossing over from a pretty decent 75" 4K HDR that I've been using for the past 3years... and I didn't have the budget to spend 4 grand on a native 4K Front Projection unit, I ended up settling with this unit because of the gaming lag issues with the pixel shifters. I figured hey, atleast I get to still keep the HDR....

This projector does accept a 60hz 4K HDR signal and displays it as 1080p HDR. There are times when it looks really good and there are times when it's best to feed it a native 1080p signal. It really varies.

I find as I own it longer I'm becoming more & more partial to the native 1080p signal. There are times when the tone-mapping is just not as good. The image just seems cleaner with the native signal.

Also beware as the unit does seem to suffer from Sync issues at times.

But overall, it's been serving it's purpose. However, I DO realize that this unit will not satisfy me for much longer. I'm already increasing my budget so I can get a solid 4K DLP unit with acceptable gaming lag.

Hope this helps a bit.
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post #9 of 35 Old 12-08-2019, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, that does help.
Thank you all.
I would have loved to have the budget for a good 4k with decent gaming input times, but I don't think it's in the cards this time around.
I am hoping to get a good feel for the projector before boxing day and get a screen then.
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post #10 of 35 Old 12-08-2019, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tattootearz View Post
My experience with this Projector (Optoma HD39HDR) has been pretty positive over the last 6 or so weeks. (After calibrating White/Black level in a dedicated 100% light controlled environment)

I recently converted a room into a dedicated Theater & I wanted to get back into Front Projection.

Since I was crossing over from a pretty decent 75" 4K HDR that I've been using for the past 3years... and I didn't have the budget to spend 4 grand on a native 4K Front Projection unit, I ended up settling with this unit because of the gaming lag issues with the pixel shifters. I figured hey, atleast I get to still keep the HDR....

This projector does accept a 60hz 4K HDR signal and displays it as 1080p HDR. There are times when it looks really good and there are times when it's best to feed it a native 1080p signal. It really varies.

I find as I own it longer I'm becoming more & more partial to the native 1080p signal. There are times when the tone-mapping is just not as good. The image just seems cleaner with the native signal.

Also beware as the unit does seem to suffer from Sync issues at times.

But overall, it's been serving it's purpose. However, I DO realize that this unit will not satisfy me for much longer. I'm already increasing my budget so I can get a solid 4K DLP unit with acceptable gaming lag.

Hope this helps a bit.
All 4K DLP's have lag in the 40-60ms range. Maybe the HT3550 with 30-40ms with everything disabled, including the 4K.

4K with lower lag would be Epson's with 20-30 ms, Sony and JVC (pixel shifter or not) with 30-40ms.
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post #11 of 35 Old 12-08-2019, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rekbones View Post
The main flaw in the Optoma's is the 2x RGBW color wheel. The BenQ 2150st with a 4x RGBRGB wheel is the most often recommended short throw projector here so you should also look into it. Projectors are incapable of displaying HDR so it comes down to what can "tone map" better the projector or the source like a good blue ray player. Wide color gamut is also a factor in UHD signals and most entry level projectors can't display that either. As far as Darbee some like the processed look some don't and you can get an external one if you like. Optoma's are popular but also look at the BenQ also.
From the GT1080HDR product sheet:

"Color Wheel 6 Segment; RYGCWB"
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-GT1080HDR.htm
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post #12 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
From the GT1080HDR product sheet:

"Color Wheel 6 Segment; RYGCWB"
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-GT1080HDR.htm
I can't find any images of the GT1080HDR color wheel, but it sounds as if it's the same as for the GT1080 with yellow, cyan and white segments along with the standard RGB:

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post #13 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
From the GT1080HDR product sheet:

"Color Wheel 6 Segment; RYGCWB"
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-GT1080HDR.htm
Having owned both RGBRGB, RGBW and RGBCYW and how they mix and match the progression order around the color wheel.

As everyone knows the “color lumens” are always somewhat misleadingly high with the addition of the white segment and websites like colorlightoutput.com IMO misleading in the other direction saying they are much lower than practical usage as they totally disregard any positive light making it thru the CYW filters at all.

I still think RGBCYW has to some extent taken a bad rap due to the early on models that had huge amounts of the color wheel taken up with white. These early models were mostly business projectors and lots of white with the CR it brings was a good thing in bright rooms.

I no longer judge much by the colors in the wheel but try and find a picture of the color wheel on sites like CLO.com or by comparing lamp wattage to listed lumens, or better yet read some good reviews where they test in the most color accurate modes and relate real lumen outputs. A little bit of CYW in a controlled HT is not actually a bad thing in my opinion. TI early on talked about how the addition of CY and even W was going to help fill the gamut better and more efficiently, But I think the industry ran with it in the wrong direction to some extent because it gave a little credibility to not just say RGBW as what was the business projector before.

I also think the size of the DLP is an issue to factor in and the Dark Chip 3 .65” is a positive factor still.

I have no idea what Optoma’s idea was with the CYW and processing HDR but it to me seems logical. I have looked at 100s of color wheel combinations and no 2 are alike it almost makes you wonder if they know what to do with colors other than RGB.

Bud
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post #14 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
I can't find any images of the GT1080HDR color wheel, but it sounds as if it's the same as for the GT1080 with yellow, cyan and white segments along with the standard RGB:

Great minds think alike and I almost posted that wheel as well, thinking it is close.

It’s a good example of how they cut back the white a good deal and placed the CY so the intersection areas could be used as mixed light points to make other hard to get tones.

The reason it needs a bright lamp along with a white segment to claim 3600 lumens. My guess is it has a sweet spot around 2000 lumens though. Even though COL might say it only makes 800 or something like that.

Just talking about the wheel colors IMO is only part of the story.

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post #15 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 08:35 AM
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... It’s a good example of how they cut back the white a good deal and placed the CY so the intersection areas could be used as mixed light points to make other hard to get tones. ...
We've discussed this a lot over the years. The theory when the subtractive colors of yellow, cyan and magenta were added to the primary colors of red, green and blue was that it would allow color wheels on DLP projectors to produce more hard to get tones. While DLP projector manufacturers adopted this concept of adding YCM segments to their projectors for business and lower cost home video to help achieve a brighter image, no DLP projector manufacturer has ever supported this theory by adopting it on their more premium home theater projectors.

The standard for best color reproduction with DLP projectors has for years remained the RGBRGB color wheel. To this day, CYM -- along with white (clear) -- segments have only been added to RGB color wheels exclusively to increase maximum lumens on business and lower cost home video DLP projectors. As enticing as it may be to believe the original theory that adding the three subtractive colors to the three primary colors would enhance DLP image color reproduction, no DLP projector manufacturer has shown any belief in this theory by incorporating it into their more premium home theater models where users tend to be more picky about accurate color reproduction.

With the recent trend of increasing projector color output from Rec 709 to Rec 2020 with wide color gamut (WCG), now would have been the perfect time to prove the advantage of adding CYM to RGB if it indeed helped produce more hard to get tones. If it isn't happening now it seems unlikely it ever will. RGBRGB remains the gold standard for optimum color performance on DLP color wheels even in the era of Rec 2020 and WCG.
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post #16 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
We've discussed this a lot over the years. The theory when the subtractive colors of yellow, cyan and magenta were added to the primary colors of red, green and blue was that it would allow color wheels on DLP projectors to produce more hard to get tones. While DLP projector manufacturers adopted this concept of adding YCM segments to their projectors for business and lower cost home video to help achieve a brighter image, no DLP projector manufacturer has ever supported this theory by adopting it on their more premium home theater projectors.

The standard for best color reproduction with DLP projectors has for years remained the RGBRGB color wheel. To this day, CYM -- along with white (clear) -- segments have only been added to RGB color wheels exclusively to increase maximum lumens on business and lower cost home video DLP projectors. As enticing as it may be to believe the original theory that adding the three subtractive colors to the three primary colors would enhance DLP image color reproduction, no DLP projector manufacturer has shown any belief in this theory by incorporating it into their more premium home theater models where users tend to be more picky about accurate color reproduction.

With the recent trend of increasing projector color output from Rec 709 to Rec 2020 with wide color gamut (WCG), now would have been the perfect time to prove the advantage of adding CYM to RGB if it indeed helped produce more hard to get tones. If it isn't happening now it seems unlikely it ever will. RGBRGB remains the gold standard for optimum color performance on DLP color wheels even in the era of Rec 2020 and WCG.
This is all true as far as I know as well. It is also true that the higher end a projector is designed for that design assumes the highest end of room reflections and room control of ambient light and in most circumstances a highly accurate smooth and perfect lambertine white screen surface.

Most of us struggle to achieve such a setting in our HTs and many more are now expecting some degree of 4k HDR imaging in rooms more like a living room, and why not they feel they can watch 4k HDR on a flat panel display in the same room. HDR is an expanded gamut but it expands wider in all directions but more important it expands greater in the other direction of brightness as well throughout the whole wider gamut. It is pretty widely accepted now that projectors can’t get there in terms of brightness with or without RGB alone and then requires modifications of the brightness into tone mapping with some additional brightness. I doubt any of us here understand this process in a perfect dark theater room let alone a less than perfect room. As I said above by all the different things I have seen tried with color wheels, I have doubts that even the projector makers have it figured out.

The HDR RGBRGB 4k projectors are even sticking another filter into the light path to try and make it work and in the process cutting the lumens in half.

I’m sure the colors of the RGBCYM and RGBCYW projectors are not as perfect as RGBRGB but add in a less than perfect room and increased CR along with what they can do filling out the gamut I still believe to our eyes we could see a better image overall.

I prefer to think of CYM as secondary colors to the primary colors and not subtractive. IMO getting that correct is magnitudes more complicated to do though. Maybe they will never get there who knows and I do agree my eyes need nothing more than REC709 color space and RGB does that good enough for me.

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Cyan, yellow and magenta are defined as the primary subtractive colors while red, green and blue are the primary additive colors. No question that market demand for projectors that work in some ambient light has caused projector manufacturers to find ways to increase overall lumens on some models marketed for that purpose. Whereas projector color accuracy is critical in dark environments where projector image light is the only light hitting the screen, color accuracy is less important in ambient light. That's because ambient light polluting the screen image is not a consistent color but can vary tremendously depending on the environment and is unpredictable.

So there's certainly nothing wrong with adding CYMW segments to a DLP projector being used in an environment where maximum lumens are more critical than color accuracy which is going to be compromised by ambient light pollution anyway. As always the most important consideration is to choose the right tool for the right job. For dark theater use RGBRGB offers optimum color accuracy and for ambient light use RGBCYMW offers more maximum lumens.
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This is wonderful information, thank you all.
The colour wheel debate has me on the fence on whether I should cancel my Optoma GT1080HDR order and get the BenQ HT2150ST.
I will not be able to get a completely dark room so I know I will not benefit fully from the RGBRGB colour wheel in the BenQ.
I have a large sliding glass door in my living room, but the curtains remove most of the ambient light(can always get a better curtain as well) and the projector will primarily be used at night.
Will there be a noticeable difference between the Optoma and BenQ?
And would it be worth the time returning the Optoma and ordering the BenQ which would save $150 CAD (Would be put towards a better screen)
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post #19 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Braydon Berthelet View Post
This is wonderful information, thank you all.
The colour wheel debate has me on the fence on whether I should cancel my Optoma GT1080HDR order and get the BenQ HT2150ST.
I will not be able to get a completely dark room so I know I will not benefit fully from the RGBRGB colour wheel in the BenQ.
I have a large sliding glass door in my living room, but the curtains remove most of the ambient light(can always get a better curtain as well) and the projector will primarily be used at night.
Will there be a noticeable difference between the Optoma and BenQ?
And would it be worth the time returning the Optoma and ordering the BenQ which would save $150 CAD (Would be put towards a better screen)
As a side note, it will be primarily used for movies but would like to be able to host some good big-screen gaming sessions which would most likely have more ambient light.
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post #20 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braydon Berthelet View Post
As a side note, it will be primarily used for movies but would like to be able to host some good big-screen gaming sessions which would most likely have more ambient light.
HDR capability is definitely worth it.
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post #21 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braydon Berthelet View Post
...
The colour wheel debate has me on the fence on whether I should cancel my Optoma GT1080HDR order and get the BenQ HT2150ST.
I will not be able to get a completely dark room so I know I will not benefit fully from the RGBRGB colour wheel in the BenQ.
I have a large sliding glass door in my living room, but the curtains remove most of the ambient light(can always get a better curtain as well) and the projector will primarily be used at night.
Will there be a noticeable difference between the Optoma and BenQ?
And would it be worth the time returning the Optoma and ordering the BenQ which would save $150 CAD (Would be put towards a better screen)
You are in the grey zone on ambient light. It's hard to say exactly how much difference you'd see in ambient light because it varies with the exact amount of light and the sensitivity of different viewers to fine differences in image quality. In the dark there should be a noticeable difference for many people.

The way I personally look at these mixed use situations is that if I have to compromise I compromise in favor of what's most important to me. Since I do all of my reference viewing in the dark and only occasionally do casual viewing in minor ambient light I compromise in favor of the best dark viewing option and accept that I'm giving up something in ambient light. Those who do more viewing in ambient light might compromise the other way.

In the end you really need to understand your own personal preferences to the point that you can decide what balance of pros and cons is most important to you as it will not be the same as everyone giving you advice on what works for them.

EDIT: Forgot to ask, is the HT2150ST really $150 less than the GT1080HDR in Canada? In the US they're selling for the exact same price.

Last edited by Dave in Green; 12-09-2019 at 02:51 PM.
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You are in the grey zone on ambient light. It's hard to say exactly how much difference you'd see in ambient light because it varies with the exact amount of light and the sensitivity of different viewers to fine differences in image quality. In the dark there should be a noticeable difference for many people.

The way I personally look at these mixed use situations is that if I have to compromise I compromise in favor of what's most important to me. Since I do all of my reference viewing in the dark and only occasionally do casual viewing in minor ambient light I compromise in favor of the best dark viewing option and accept that I'm giving up something in ambient light. Those who do more viewing in ambient light might compromise the other way.

In the end you really need to understand your own personal preferences to the point that you can decide what balance of pros and cons is most important to you as it will not be the same as everyone giving you advice on what works for them.

EDIT: Forgot to ask, is the HT2150ST really $150 less than the GT1080HDR in Canada? In the US they're selling for the exact same price.
That is a very good point you made about weighing the pros and cons.
Just a note, I am coming from a 24 inch 720p screen
So, in the end, I think I will be blown away either way, I just really want to make sure I am not just throwing money away when there was something better.

As for the price of the BenQ, amazon.ca had it selling slightly cheaper than the GT1080HDR and prime gave it $100 off. With taxes, it worked out to be around $150 cheaper.
But checking now, it looks like they sold out and the next best marketplace option is $1320 (plus tax). So hopefully the GT1080HDR works out
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@Braydon Berthelet , for someone new to video projection coming from a 24" 720p screen you are correct that either one of these projectors should blow you away. You might not even notice some of the subtle differences that those with more experience might pick out. They each have a different set of pros and cons so it's not like one is a clear winner for everyone in every situation. If you already have the GT1080HDR ordered I wouldn't worry about being disappointed that you missed a lot by not going with the HT2150ST. Enjoy.
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But checking now, it looks like they sold out and the next best marketplace option is $1320 (plus tax). So hopefully the GT1080HDR works out
Please keep us posted on your experiences and impressions of the GT1080HDR.
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Please keep us posted on your experiences and impressions of the GT1080HDR.
Absolutely, this forum is amazing and I am glad that I posted.
All the information that has been provided has been very helpful and I will post my experiences and impressions of my projector introduction
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post #26 of 35 Old 12-10-2019, 04:11 AM
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That is a very good point you made about weighing the pros and cons.
Just a note, I am coming from a 24 inch 720p screen
So, in the end, I think I will be blown away either way, I just really want to make sure I am not just throwing money away when there was something better.

As for the price of the BenQ, amazon.ca had it selling slightly cheaper than the GT1080HDR and prime gave it $100 off. With taxes, it worked out to be around $150 cheaper.
But checking now, it looks like they sold out and the next best marketplace option is $1320 (plus tax). So hopefully the GT1080HDR works out
There is a lot of talk over the years about the difference between RGBRGB and say RGBCYW. Very few people have actually owned and lived with both for a number of years. I had a Viewsonic PJD5555w for 3 years that claimed 3300 lumens and could get very bright in its brightest settings. It was WXGA /720p type resolution and the Dark chip 2 DLP setup. Its color production was spot on at 1000 lumens and very pleasant to watch up to 1500 lumens. The more accurate modes use the RGB fully and the CYW sparingly. Around 2000 lumens all these projectors are still nice to watch but in a light tight room with little reflections the image starts to take on a greenish tint. I don’t know if that is by design or not but I doubt it is. On the other hand it is not as noticeable when there is a lot of ambient light. 2500-3300 it is all out lumens and what one would expect from a business projector doing power point the lumens are there for CR and colors are still colors but as expected washed out.

I then upgraded to a very close but upgraded Viewsonic Pro7827HD 1080p RGBRGB Dark chip 3 DLP very similar to the BenQ being mentioned. It uses a brighter lamp higher wattage and topped out at 2000 lumens. In its best mode and around the 1000 lumen point where you would expect to use it with an average sized screen in a darken HT with fair light control I was surprised I didn’t see much improvement in color production. Of course I saw a little bump in the resolution but not huge, but the biggest improvement wasn’t in colors but in black levels going from Dark Chip 2-3. At the time I was able to play them both back to back and I felt the RGBCYW had just a slight edge on very bright yellows and bright blues, and of course whites. I remember some hockey fans saying they liked the way the ice looked better with that technology.

In conclusion when down in the lower 1/3 of the lumens both technologies will be pretty equal IMO and blow you away. Around the mid point maybe just a slight edge to the RGBRGB for serious movie watching in the dark and if you ever need to crank up the room light the RGBCYW still has some firepower to make a image you will be able to at least watch.

I would be able to be happy with either and the HDR advantage might tip the scale if that is something you want.

Bud
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... Around 2000 lumens all these projectors are still nice to watch but in a light tight room with little reflections the image starts to take on a greenish tint. I don’t know if that is by design or not but I doubt it is. On the other hand it is not as noticeable when there is a lot of ambient light. ...
Greenish tint in brightest mode isn't just a characteristic of DLP projectors but also 3LCD and LCoS models. I believe it's related to the fact that when you go to maximum brightness with any UHP lamp projector that green becomes the dominant wavelength. In their review of the old Epson 3LCD HC1440 bright room light cannon, Projectorcentral.com mentioned an interesting tweak for getting reasonably balanced color in brightest mode that might also be useful to try with other projector models:

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The whole point of the HC1440 is getting the brightest HD picture possible for the money. The projector is rated at a maximum of 4400 lumens, and on our test sample the brightest preset, Dynamic, measures 4350 lumens, essentially on target. Meanwhile, the two Cinema modes which have a more neutral color balance measure about 2800 lumens. The Dynamic mode has a somewhat greenish bias, although not severe or objectionable. The big question is whether you'd want to give up 1/3 of your total light potential to get more accurate color?

The answer for most users will be "no way." This is a Super Bowl party projector, intended for big screen use in ambient light. You are buying it because you want 4000+ lumens. Even at its default settings, the HC1440's Dynamic mode delivers an engaging and exciting picture. Despite what a professional would describe as a greenish bias, nobody at a party would think the picture looks green, or notice any color biases in the image at all--for the most part colors look perfectly natural. A low-saturation light blue sky may appear bluish-green, but saturated colors all look solid and accurate.

However, there is an easy way to improve the picture quality without bothering with a professional calibration. In the onscreen menu, go to Image/Advanced/RGB and drop Offset G from 0 to -1. Believe it or not, this tiny adjustment takes out a noticeable amount of the green, improves color saturation and contrast, and renders better flesh tones. Meanwhile it reduces lumen output by only 3%, so you still end up netting out 4200+ lumens. This is the way I would run this projector at my own Super Bowl party.
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The lack of a greenish tint in the bright mode was one of the really nifty features of the Viewsonic PX747-4K:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/199-f...l#post58093360
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post #29 of 35 Old 12-10-2019, 09:56 AM
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The lack of a greenish tint in the bright mode was one of the really nifty features of the Viewsonic PX747-4K:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/199-f...l#post58093360
The projectorcentral.com review of the PX747 also made mention of its unusual ability to go very bright without a greenish tint. However, there was a major price paid in terms of overall color saturation that made it more suited to black and white presentations than for color video/film:

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Bright mode is distinctively different on these two models. While Bright mode on the PX727 has a rather noticeable greenish cyan tint, the PX747 delivers a brilliant white 3100 lumens with very little obvious color bias. This is quite unusual for a projector's brightest operating mode. However, in Bright mode, despite its brilliant white, the amount of color light making it to the screen drops to 26% of white. The overwhelming amount of white light in the mix causes color subject matter to appear quite dull and low in saturation. So Bright is not a good operating mode for video/film. But it is an outstanding option for high resolution presentation of black/white text documents, financial spreadsheets, etc.
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post #30 of 35 Old 12-10-2019, 10:24 AM
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The projectorcentral.com review of the PX747 also made mention of its unusual ability to go very bright without a greenish tint. However, there was a major price paid in terms of overall color saturation that made it more suited to black and white presentations than for color video/film:
That review really overstates the issue of desaturation, expecially with HDR content. You can see from my photos the effect of the desaturation, but especially with HDR content, the image presented is still quite watchable, especially if a very large image is required. In movie mode things are different:

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Turning to the same scenes in the Ultra HD version of Black Panther, I saw even more contrast as my previous comments about DLP were forgotten. HDR can truly make a display with natively-low dynamic range look worlds better. Seeing T’Challa against a sun-drenched background only helped bring out the fine textures in his skin and makeup even more. While HDR will always look best on a high-end flat panel, the PX747-4K does credit to the projector category with this performance. I missed the extra color afforded by some other Ultra HD displays I’ve seen but I consider that only a tiny flaw.

I finished up my viewing with Planet Earth II. It was hard not to watch the entire series in one sitting as the phenomenal footage shot by the BBC completely drew me in. They have truly created a reference-level presentation that will no doubt be gracing tradeshow booths and home theaters as a definitive demonstration of Ultra HD HDR. I have watched it in SDR on my Anthem projector and in HDR on a JVC DLA-RS640. Only that JVC can beat what I saw from the ViewSonic. To see an image so dripping with detail and vivid color coming from a $1500 projector is nothing short of amazing.
https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...jector-review/
Anyways, this is OT. I really meant to simply point out that a greenish tint isn't inevitable if the manufacturer tunes it out.
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