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post #1 of 57 Old 12-13-2019, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Upgrade HT2050A to HT3550?

Location: rec room basement

Uses: Mainly live sports, Streaming YouTube through Apple TV 4K box. Movies through DirecTV mini Genie receiver. Family parties.

Screen: Silver Ticket: STR-169110 Silver Ticket, 110" Diagonal, 16:9 Cinema Format, 4K Ultra HD Ready, HDTV (6 Piece Fixed Frame) Projector Screen, White Material

LED Lighting : I have 20 watt can lights close by along with 40 watt can lights further away.

Is it worth the upgrade in my case?
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post #2 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 01:14 AM
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Seating distance from screen?

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post #3 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 05:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Seating distance from screen?
Approximately 12 feet.


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post #4 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 06:04 AM
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Since you are on a 16:9 and sitting 12' from the screen, you would see very little improvement in sharpness, maybe a tiny bit if you had a UHD disk that was truly mastered in 4k. For a real increase in sharpness, you'd have to go with something like an Optoma, Viewsonic, or higher-end Benq. That particular Benq isn't much sharper than a regular 2k projector.

For live sports and stuff like that, I'd actually consider one of the Optoma or Viewsonic projectors, they tend to be a bit sharper than the Benq.
The only advantage of the Benq is black levels, and maybe slightly more accurate color OOTB, neither of which are the most important for sports.

You might also consider a refurbished Epson 5040, which is brighter than all these projectors.

The Viewsonic pk-727 will be the brightest of the three for a watchable sports mode,
and might have a better/faster color wheel than the Optoma (have read conflicting reports).

The Viewsonic will appear less green in its brighter modes than the other DLP's, see this link...
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Vie...-4K-review.htm

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Last edited by coderguy; 12-14-2019 at 06:08 AM.
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post #5 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 06:18 AM
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One other thing to note is that I don't think the Viewsonic has any frame interpolation modes, whereas I believe the Optoma 51a does.
The Optoma has 3D and the Viewsonic does not.

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post #6 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 06:49 AM
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Upgrade HT2050A to HT3550?

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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
That particular Benq isn't much sharper than a regular 2k projector.

What are you basing this statement on?

I can tell you as someone who has both an HT2050A and an HT3550 pointed at the same screen this is simply not accurate. The HT3550 is much sharper— the HT3550 has four times the pixel count and that is readily apparent when viewing them back to back or side by side.

That said, I do agree with your comment that screen size and seating distance is important here. But one thing I’ve learned is everyone’s eyesight here is a bit difference. I sit about 9 feet away from a 100” screen and the difference is night and day— but that’s me.

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post #7 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budala007 View Post
Location: rec room basement

Uses: Mainly live sports, Streaming YouTube through Apple TV 4K box. Movies through DirecTV mini Genie receiver. Family parties.

Screen: Silver Ticket: STR-169110 Silver Ticket, 110" Diagonal, 16:9 Cinema Format, 4K Ultra HD Ready, HDTV (6 Piece Fixed Frame) Projector Screen, White Material

LED Lighting : I have 20 watt can lights close by along with 40 watt can lights further away.

Is it worth the upgrade in my case?


I did a direct comparison between the two here. Hope this helps. See post 2:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...3053064?page=1

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

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post #8 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
What are you basing this statement on?

I can tell you as someone who has both an HT2050A and an HT3550 pointed at the same screen this is simply not accurate. The HT3550 is much sharper— the HT3550 has four times the pixel count and that is readily apparent when viewing them back to back or side by side.

That said, I do agree with your comment that screen size and seating distance is important here. But one thing I’ve learned is everyone’s eyesight here is a bit difference. I sit about 9 feet away from a 100” screen and the difference is night and day— but that’s me.


Here is my setup. I could turn the projector on if needed so that you can see the picture actually looks great even with the lights on.




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post #9 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 07:22 AM
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Upgrade HT2050A to HT3550?

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Originally Posted by Budala007 View Post
Here is my setup. I could turn the projector on if needed so that you can see the picture actually looks great even with the lights on.




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I remember this space! Were you having an issue with your HDMI cable originally?

I would recommend you read my comparison that I linked above. The HT2050A is remarkably bright for what it is. This can be both an advantage and a disadvantage depending on your room and what type of content you consume. If ambient light is a concern I might stick with the Ht2050A or wait for my review of the Tk850– I received one yesterday and have just started the process of putting it through it’s paces.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

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post #10 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 08:24 AM
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Most important things for his setup are:

1) Brightness
2) Sharpness
3) Motion / FI (if he uses it)

What I am talking about is that from his seating distance, the ht3550 is known to be the LEAST sharp of all the 4k DLP's.
If mounting at closest throw, it might be closer to the others, but it's still the least sharp.

This might sound backwards, but the farther back you are, the less you will notice sharpness, which means the MORE sharpness you need to see a difference.
It doesn't mean you need MORE sharpness, it just means to see a difference (think about that carefully).

I've seen people take pictures of the pixel grid close up, it's ok, but it's got some minor issues with sharpness generally speaking.

The other problem is MOST content is not 4k, though some sports are. It's pseudo 4k, mastered from 2k sources and then upscaled.

The only reason anyone SHOULD BE stuck on the Benq ht3550 is if they are going for contrast for movies or need the shorter throw, he's not going for contrast.

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Last edited by coderguy; 12-14-2019 at 08:28 AM.
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post #11 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
I did a direct comparison between the two here. Hope this helps. See post 2:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...3053064?page=1
Are you getting paid to do these reviews or something?
No offense, but it just seems like anytime anyone mentions anything that isn't a Benq, you immediately try to stear them right back to a Benq.

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post #12 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 08:50 AM
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Anyhow, the Viewsonic has the best NATIVE motion and is the sharpest as well.
It may be easier to stick with a Benq for your throw, depends, would have to check.

As previously noted, even though the Viewsonic does not have Frame Interpolation, it passes the PANNING tests the best of all the lower end 4k DLP.
It also has the smoothest native motion for sports, according to multiple reviewers. That said, I've seen reviewers be wrong before.

The Viewsonic is the same brightness as your current projector, and is a bit cheaper than the ht3550...
If you want better contrast, then go with the ht3550, but you may be giving up some brightness depending how you calibrate it.

If you want a projector that is EVEN MUCH brighter than your existing projector, you can grab a Viewsonic pk-747 refurb cheap.

You can stick with Benq if you want Frame Interpolation, but the Viewsonics are often less expensive, slightly brighter, and definitely sharper...
The Optomas are a bit quieter, but sounds like you don't care about that as much. And again, Optoma 51a has the best 3D, but it only has a 2x color wheel.
I am not sure about the color wheel speeds on the Viewsonic, but should be 4x on the 727 I think.

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Last edited by coderguy; 12-14-2019 at 08:58 AM.
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post #13 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Are you getting paid to do these reviews or something?

No offense, but it just seems like anytime anyone mentions anything that isn't a Benq, you immediately try to stear them right back to a Benq.

I just helped my best friend pick out, buy and install an Epson... so no.

The title of the thread is HT2050A or HT3550. If you read my post I actually agreed with you that ambient light was a primary concern in his space and that resolution might not matter as much. I even mention my comparison which points out the the HT3550 does not have the lumen output of the HT2050A. I’m actually agreeing with you but you took my comment as an attack and decided to attack me. Thanks for that. So since the OP was considering the Ht3550– which would be a drop in replacement for the Ht2050A thanks to it’s throw— I mentioned the Tk850 as it’s practically the same projector as the Ht3550 with a different color wheel. Thus brighter. Thus maybe a better fit in his room.

How ludicrous of me to suggest a different BenQ to the OP who owns a BenQ and is considering buying a different benQ. Coder... wtf man. I didn’t really expect that from you.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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post #14 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
I just helped my best friend pick out, buy and install an Epson... so no.
How ludicrous of me to suggest a different BenQ to the OP who owns a BenQ and is considering buying a different benQ.
I hear you.

It wasn't meant as an attack, I literally thought you were planted here from Benq (or receiving benefits from them).
I'm not entirely convinced, but I'll have to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Sorry, it's the just way online has gotten lately. There is too much of that going on...
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post #15 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
I remember this space! Were you having an issue with your HDMI cable originally?

I would recommend you read my comparison that I linked above. The HT2050A is remarkably bright for what it is. This can be both an advantage and a disadvantage depending on your room and what type of content you consume. If ambient light is a concern I might stick with the Ht2050A or wait for my review of the Tk850– I received one yesterday and have just started the process of putting it through it’s paces.


The sources are a DirecTV mini genie and Apple TV hooked into the hdmi ports of my JBL Bar 3.1 soundbar/sub.

I just picked this fiber optic cable: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07PJ...b_b_asin_title


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post #16 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 09:14 AM
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If you want an even cheaper upgrade...

Paint the room darker and ceiling, as well as a dark throw carpet under the couch (doesn't have to be black)...
Even a dark blue would be a huge improvement, might actually make the room look better if you do it right.

This would likely be a bigger upgrade to the picture than a new projector.

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post #17 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Anyhow, the Viewsonic has the best NATIVE motion and is the sharpest as well.

It may be easier to stick with a Benq for your throw, depends, would have to check.



As previously noted, even though the Viewsonic does not have Frame Interpolation, it passes the PANNING tests the best of all the lower end 4k DLP.

It also has the smoothest native motion for sports, according to multiple reviewers. That said, I've seen reviewers be wrong before.



The Viewsonic is the same brightness as your current projector, and is a bit cheaper than the ht3550...

If you want better contrast, then go with the ht3550, but you may be giving up some brightness depending how you calibrate it.



If you want a projector that is EVEN MUCH brighter than your existing projector, you can grab a Viewsonic pk-747 refurb cheap.



You can stick with Benq if you want Frame Interpolation, but the Viewsonics are often less expensive, slightly brighter, and definitely sharper...

The Optomas are a bit quieter, but sounds like you don't care about that as much. And again, Optoma 51a has the best 3D, but it only has a 2x color wheel.

I am not sure about the color wheel speeds on the Viewsonic, but should be 4x on the 727 I think.

I’m not into gaming, 3D or 4K(for now at least). What I would prefer is the sharpest, most natural looking picture with natural colors and brightness due to my ambient lighting.


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post #18 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Most important things for his setup are:



1) Brightness

2) Sharpness

3) Motion / FI (if he uses it)



What I am talking about is that from his seating distance, the ht3550 is known to be the LEAST sharp of all the 4k DLP's.

If mounting at closest throw, it might be closer to the others, but it's still the least sharp.



This might sound backwards, but the farther back you are, the less you will notice sharpness, which means the MORE sharpness you need to see a difference.

It doesn't mean you need MORE sharpness, it just means to see a difference (think about that carefully).



I've seen people take pictures of the pixel grid close up, it's ok, but it's got some minor issues with sharpness generally speaking.



The other problem is MOST content is not 4k, though some sports are. It's pseudo 4k, mastered from 2k sources and then upscaled.



The only reason anyone SHOULD BE stuck on the Benq ht3550 is if they are going for contrast for movies or need the shorter throw, he's not going for contrast.


Should I take a few close up pics? The only BIG downside of projectors in my opinion is the fact that you have to manually focus them. I hate that, but oh well.

Ultimately I would love to get a UST like the Optoma CinemaX P1, but I doubt I would get a square image based on how high my table is and due to the fact that my screen has a thick frame around it. I believe that I would have to get a lower table and a much different screen with a much thinner frame.


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post #19 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budala007 View Post
I’m not into gaming, 3D or 4K(for now at least). What I would prefer is the sharpest, most natural looking picture with natural colors and brightness due to my ambient lighting.
Darkening the room is always best, it improves the picture even more than a brighter projector.
I know some people cannot always do it, but I think that room could be treated to some degree, if you were willing.

The thing is, if you have guests over a lot, the slower color wheels on some of the Optomas or Viewsonic might bother them with the rainbow effect, or could even bother you if you are sensitive to it. In that case, you have to be careful.

These projectors are all going to look very similar color wise, until you get into the higher and brighter modes.
The Epson LCD projectors are much much brighter, but I'm personally more of a DLP fan than an LCD fan, but everyone in here has specific tastes.

I haven't compared the newer Viewsonics and Benqs, and most people in here haven't either.
Most of the information we are going from is from the professional review sites.

That said, there are people that have compared a lot of Benq vs. Benq or Benq vs. Epson, and a few that have compared Benq vs. Optoma.

Generally, Benq is a slightly better brand name for quality when it comes to projectors, but Viewsonic isn't bad (can be hit or miss).
Acer is the lowest, Optoma is probably between Benq and Viewsonic, as per build quality and # of problems, hard to say though exactly.

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post #20 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budala007 View Post
Should I take a few close up pics? The only BIG downside of projectors in my opinion is the fact that you have to manually focus them. I hate that, but oh well.

Ultimately I would love to get a UST like the Optoma CinemaX P1, but I doubt I would get a square image based on how high my table is and due to the fact that my screen has a thick frame around it. I believe that I would have to get a lower table and a much different screen with a much thinner frame.
I don't know much about UST, but not sure the frame has much effect, generally it's the type of screen material more than the frame.

The Epson 5040 refurb and Epson 4010 have motorized zoom, focus, and lens memory.
They are LCD tech though, some people love LCD and some hate it. I am kind of between on that, I neither love it or hate it, I just prefer DLP in this price segment.

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post #21 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Darkening the room is always best, it improves the picture even more than a brighter projector.

I know some people cannot always do it, but I think that room could be treated to some degree, if you were willing.



The thing is, if you have guests over a lot, the slower color wheels on some of the Optomas or Viewsonic might bother them with the rainbow effect, or could even bother you if you are sensitive to it. In that case, you have to be careful.



These projectors are all going to look very similar color wise, until you get into the higher and brighter modes.

The Epson LCD projectors are much much brighter, but I'm personally more of a DLP fan than an LCD fan, but everyone in here has specific tastes.



I haven't compared the newer Viewsonics and Benqs, and most people in here haven't either.

Most of the information we are going from is from the professional review sites.



That said, there are people that have compared a lot of Benq vs. Benq or Benq vs. Epson, and a few that have compared Benq vs. Optoma.



Generally, Benq is a slightly better brand name for quality when it comes to projectors, but Viewsonic isn't bad (can be hit or miss).

Acer is the lowest, Optoma is probably between Benq and Viewsonic, as per build quality and # of problems, hard to say though exactly.


The biggest thing for me is making sure that if I try a new projector that the throw is easy to make an aligned image especially with my distance. I would hate to move my projector that already ceiling mounted.


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post #22 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 09:38 AM
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If your mounting pole is adjustable easy enough, then the only concern is the throw range.
It looks like your throw distance is somewhere around 9 feet, but I cannot tell exactly.

Looks like the Viewsonics wouldn't fit, so that makes it a bit easier.

Some Optomas would, and some Epsons.

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post #23 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Overall I tend to rely on thewirecutter.com as they always seem to be on point which is why I picked up the Ht2050A. I just wish I had these things. Sharper image from my seating distance, auto focus and hopefully one day a UST to minimize a 40ft fiber optic cable run.


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post #24 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 09:39 AM
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@coderguy , could you expand a little on why you think the BenQ might be less sharp than a comparable Optoma model using the same DLP chip? It seems to me that any difference would come down to the optics path. Is it that you think Optoma is using a higher quality lens system than BenQ or are there other factors at work? For example, projectors with better contrast are often perceived to be sharper than those with inferior contrast even when their actual sharpness is comparable.

As for @sage11x , he has explained in the past that he has a contact who works for BenQ who has supplied him with a number of BenQ projectors. He has said he's open to doing the same for other projector manufacturers if offered. That obviously defines him as an influencer -- someone who posts product reviews on social media in exchange for free product use. There are many influencers posting on AVS Forum with some being more open and honest about it than others who push certain products without revealing their relationships with the manufacturers of those products. @sage11x has been open and honest about his connection with BenQ so everyone is free to take that into consideration when reading his posts.
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post #25 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
If your mounting pole is adjustable easy enough, then the only concern is the throw range.

It looks like your throw distance is somewhere around 9 feet, but I cannot tell exactly.


10.8ft approximately.


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post #26 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
@coderguy , could you expand a little on why you think the BenQ might be less sharp than a comparable Optoma model using the same DLP chip? It seems to me that any difference would come down to the optics path. Is it that you think Optoma is using a higher quality lens system than BenQ or are there other factors at work? For example, projectors with better contrast are often perceived to be sharper than those with inferior contrast even when their actual sharpness is comparable.

As for @sage11x , he has explained in the past that he has a contact who works for BenQ who has supplied him with a number of BenQ projectors.
I am basing it on review sites, but I also base it on the thinking below.

It's mostly a combination of the throw and not adding lens shift, it's more difficult when they have to add a shifting element to the lens, or rather more expensive to try to put those features into a sub-2k projector.

As per people posting reviews in social media and youtube videos, it means they are being at least potentially partially compensated. I don't have that much issue with it, but it does cause some bias. Benq makes some of the best DLP's, so I'm not really totally against people keep pushing people back to Benq or anything. Though there are some cases where Benq and Epson aren't the only 2 obvious choices.

I can tell you I have been compensated $0 and get no benefits in here, have never tried to use marketing tools, so heck I've lost money being in here.

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post #27 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Budala007 View Post
10.8ft approximately.
You also have to consider that you might want to buy some UHD disks for the HDR stuff.
IF you go that route, you'll want a Panny 420 UHD player (around $200), so the cheaper you can get the PJ, the more money you have to spend on other stuff.

Again though, if that were my room, I'd be spending the most time and money darkening the room, but in a colorful way.
I wouldn't take that room down to pure black or anything, because it's a game room mainly. I would use a throw rug and paint the walls and ceiling though.
Dark brown or dark gray throw rug, a navy blue or midnight blue for the walls (or even gray). I wouldn't worry about the right side as much, just the left, floor, and ceiling.

The Viewsonic might just barely fit, you would need to measure more precisely to make sure. You would not have to adjust the vertical position much for most of these, if any. It's only 1" off, but given the black borders on these DLP's anyhow, you can always just increase your frame thickness with black velvet tape (it's cheap on Ebay) and overzoom slightly, but it can depend how picky you are...

You can get a Viewsonic 747 about half the price of the Benqs, if you were to grab a refurb Viewsonic from their web site.
The disadvantage is the refurb Viewsonics are potentially hard to RMA, not sure if Viewsonic resolved that issue or not.
Buying the Viewsonic with a credit card that has a warranty is best, if you have one, like an Amex, but some Amex cancelled that program.

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Last edited by coderguy; 12-14-2019 at 10:02 AM.
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post #28 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Most important things for his setup are:



1) Brightness

2) Sharpness

3) Motion / FI (if he uses it)



What I am talking about is that from his seating distance, the ht3550 is known to be the LEAST sharp of all the 4k DLP's.

If mounting at closest throw, it might be closer to the others, but it's still the least sharp.



This might sound backwards, but the farther back you are, the less you will notice sharpness, which means the MORE sharpness you need to see a difference.

It doesn't mean you need MORE sharpness, it just means to see a difference (think about that carefully).



I've seen people take pictures of the pixel grid close up, it's ok, but it's got some minor issues with sharpness generally speaking.



The other problem is MOST content is not 4k, though some sports are. It's pseudo 4k, mastered from 2k sources and then upscaled.



The only reason anyone SHOULD BE stuck on the Benq ht3550 is if they are going for contrast for movies or need the shorter throw, he's not going for contrast.


I mostly agree with this. Which is why many of the sharpening algorithms or sharpening features on projectors with technically lower pixel count can look just as good at certain seating distances as native or ‘true’ 4K solutions.

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Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

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post #29 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
I mostly agree with this. Which is why many of the sharpening algorithms or sharpening features on projectors with technically lower pixel count can look just as good at certain seating distances as native or ‘true’ 4K solutions.


Should I take some pics with the grid on and a few close ups?


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post #30 of 57 Old 12-14-2019, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
I am basing it on review sites, but I also base it on the thinking below.

It's mostly a combination of the throw and not adding lens shift, it's more difficult when they have to add a shifting element to the lens, or rather more expensive to try to put those features into a sub-2k projector. ...
Good points. I can see where longer throw lenses have the potential to be a little sharper than shorter throw lenses of comparable cost. I can also see where adding lens shift might have at least a small effect on sharpness. A small difference in sharpness would be most visible in still images that are often part of rigorous projector performance testing. However, it's often noted that a small difference in sharpness would not be noticeable to most when viewing movies or other video as opposed to still images. It would be one of many factors to take into consideration when comparing the overall performance of any two projectors.
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