optoma uhd300x motion judder - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 5Likes
  • 1 Post By sage11x
  • 1 Post By noob00224
  • 1 Post By sage11x
  • 2 Post By sage11x
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 26 Old 12-22-2019, 10:57 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 1
optoma uhd300x motion judder

hello AVS forum, I recently purchased the uhd300x for my cousin in Brazil. I'm a satisfied owner of the uhd51/a, very clear 4k image for an affordable price.
uhd300x comes in at even cheaper price point (got it for 900 EUR) , but in comparing both projectors 1:1 I noticed severe motion judder on the uhd300x. Played with the settings a bit (24fps / 60 hz / 59,9 hz), but uhd300x still juddering pretty hard at panning shots or just when there's people moving across the screen.
Checking optoma's website, I see the uhd300x does not come with "truemotion" ... do you think this is the source of the judder?
It is very distracting for me, but don't know if this is just because I got used to uhd51/a being so good (in my eyes) for motion handling.
Would really appreciate some comments on this... Thank you, this forum rocks!

Edit: I'm outputting 4K content via an NVidia Shield playing from a hard drive, connected via 18Gbps-capable HDMI cable
auleo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 Old 12-23-2019, 04:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,817
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 976 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by auleo View Post
hello AVS forum, I recently purchased the uhd300x for my cousin in Brazil. I'm a satisfied owner of the uhd51/a, very clear 4k image for an affordable price.
uhd300x comes in at even cheaper price point (got it for 900 EUR) , but in comparing both projectors 1:1 I noticed severe motion judder on the uhd300x. Played with the settings a bit (24fps / 60 hz / 59,9 hz), but uhd300x still juddering pretty hard at panning shots or just when there's people moving across the screen.
Checking optoma's website, I see the uhd300x does not come with "truemotion" ... do you think this is the source of the judder?
It is very distracting for me, but don't know if this is just because I got used to uhd51/a being so good (in my eyes) for motion handling.
Would really appreciate some comments on this... Thank you, this forum rocks!

Edit: I'm outputting 4K content via an NVidia Shield playing from a hard drive, connected via 18Gbps-capable HDMI cable
Are you using motion interpolation on your 51A?


Have you tried 24p refresh rate on the projector with 24p (23.976fps) material?

Have you tried the same settings and just switched from one projector to another?

The UHD300x can't do native 24p, and I'm not sure how it manages to achieve that. Some 4K DLP's projectors interpolate the 24p video to 30Hz.

The judder is a limitation of video capture. 24 frames per second is not enough for panning shots and/or fast moving.
DLP is supposed to be the best when it comes to motion handling, but even DLP can't make something smooth if there are not enough frames.
This is where motion interpolation can help.

Post your question in this thread for better visibility:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...oma-uhd50.html
@DunMunro has a UHD50, maybe he as more insight.
noob00224 is online now  
post #3 of 26 Old 12-23-2019, 10:07 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
AV_Integrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Northern, VA - Washington, DC
Posts: 6,709
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1683 Post(s)
Liked: 1215
The UHD51a, by the reviews, claims some of the best motion handling and CFI of any projector on the DLPs on the market. Making it a tough competitor for the JVC models. I think if I was buying, that would be a top contender model.

There is a lot to be said for good video processing in any projector, and that's most likely exactly what you are seeing. Very poor motion handling in the cheaper model.

AV Integrated - Theater, whole house audio, and technology installation in the Washington DC metro area.
AV_Integrated is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 26 Old 12-23-2019, 11:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Out West
Posts: 1,660
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 930 Post(s)
Liked: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Are you using motion interpolation on your 51A?


Have you tried 24p refresh rate on the projector with 24p (23.976fps) material?

Have you tried the same settings and just switched from one projector to another?

The UHD300x can't do native 24p, and I'm not sure how it manages to achieve that. Some 4K DLP's projectors interpolate the 24p video to 30Hz.

The judder is a limitation of video capture. 24 frames per second is not enough for panning shots and/or fast moving.
DLP is supposed to be the best when it comes to motion handling, but even DLP can't make something smooth if there are not enough frames.
This is where motion interpolation can help.

Post your question in this thread for better visibility:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...oma-uhd50.html
@DunMunro has a UHD50, maybe he as more insight.
I don't notice judder at 24p (from 4K BDs and Netflix with the projector reporting a 24P input signal) but it might be present at a very low level. Here's a review of the UHD40 which should be similar at 24P:


at 15:52 it shows a short clip of 24P material and it seems smooth to me but the reviewer mentions that there's no interframe smoothing as per the UHD51A and variants.
DunMunro is offline  
post #5 of 26 Old 12-23-2019, 12:34 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,817
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 976 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
I don't notice judder at 24p (from 4K BDs and Netflix with the projector reporting a 24P input signal) but it might be present at a very low level. Here's a review of the UHD40 which should be similar at 24P:



at 15:52 it shows a short clip of 24P material and it seems smooth to me but the reviewer mentions that there's no interframe smoothing as per the UHD51A and variants.
How is the 24p source displayed on the 300x, via 3:2 pulldown?
noob00224 is online now  
post #6 of 26 Old 12-24-2019, 02:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sage11x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 6,943
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2956 Post(s)
Liked: 3040
All of the 4K DLPs save the most recent BenQs (HT3550, TK850, HT5550) are unable to display 24Hz content natively. They all perform a 3:2 pulldown to convert 24Hz film to standard 60Hz video. This can introduce something call telecine judder. A frame interpolation feature can assist with here but then you’ll be subject to artifacts from the CFI/MEMC— the most noticeable of which is the ‘soap opera effect’. If you’re after native 24Hz support there isn’t anything in 4K that will do it for the 300x’s price. You’d either need to spend more for a BenQ HT3550/TK850 or Epson 3200/3800 or go with a less expensive 1080p DLP/3LCD.
noob00224 likes this.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

-- Excerpt from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
sage11x is offline  
post #7 of 26 Old 12-24-2019, 03:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,817
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 976 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
All of the 4K DLPs save the most recent BenQs (HT3550, TK850, HT5550) are unable to display 24Hz content natively. They all perform a 3:2 pulldown to convert 24Hz film to standard 60Hz video. This can introduce something call telecine judder. A frame interpolation feature can assist with here but then you’ll be subject to artifacts from the CFI/MEMC— the most noticeable of which is the ‘soap opera effect’. If you’re after native 24Hz support there isn’t anything in 4K that will do it for the 300x’s price. You’d either need to spend more for a BenQ HT3550/TK850 or Epson 3200/3800 or go with a less expensive 1080p DLP/3LCD.
It sounds like the judder from the 24 frames, not from the 3:2 pulldown. Not that much can be done about that on the 300x, from the projector side.

Interestingly on the 52ALV:
SOE is worst with movies shot at 24 fps, so Optoma offers an alternative called 24p mode. Initially, I thought this might involve repeating each frame two or three times, just like commercial cinemas do. But instead, 24p mode synthesizes one new frame using MEMC after every four frames in the signal, bringing the displayed frame rate to 30 fps. This is still frame interpolation, but not nearly as much as full MEMC, so SOE should be far less apparent.

https://www.projectorreviews.com/opt...-capabilities/
sage11x likes this.
noob00224 is online now  
post #8 of 26 Old 12-24-2019, 03:52 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sage11x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 6,943
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2956 Post(s)
Liked: 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
It sounds like the judder from the 24 frames, not from the 3:2 pulldown. Not that much can be done about that on the 300x, from the projector side.

Interestingly on the 52ALV:
SOE is worst with movies shot at 24 fps, so Optoma offers an alternative called 24p mode. Initially, I thought this might involve repeating each frame two or three times, just like commercial cinemas do. But instead, 24p mode synthesizes one new frame using MEMC after every four frames in the signal, bringing the displayed frame rate to 30 fps. This is still frame interpolation, but not nearly as much as full MEMC, so SOE should be far less apparent.

https://www.projectorreviews.com/opt...-capabilities/


If the display is handling 24Hz content correctly it shouldn’t really display “judder”. But I understand what you mean— you’re talking about the perception of film cadence. Still this should be far less noticeably than judder produced by a 3:2 pulldown. I would be interested to see how the 24Hz MEMC works on the Optomas but I generally avoid CFI/MEMC features.
noob00224 likes this.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

-- Excerpt from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
sage11x is offline  
post #9 of 26 Old 12-24-2019, 04:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,817
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 976 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
If the display is handling 24Hz content correctly it shouldn’t really display “judder”. But I understand what you mean— you’re talking about the perception of film cadence. Still this should be far less noticeably than judder produced by a 3:2 pulldown. I would be interested to see how the 24Hz MEMC works on the Optomas but I generally avoid CFI/MEMC features.
On the W2000/HT3050 with the projector set at 23Hz (23.97x) and source video at 23.976fps judder is observed sometimes in wide shot panning scenes.
I can barely see 3:2 pulldown if the display is at 60Hz with a 24p source.

Has DLP improved this aspect (judder) in recent 4K models?
noob00224 is online now  
post #10 of 26 Old 12-24-2019, 04:31 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Out West
Posts: 1,660
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 930 Post(s)
Liked: 459
At 18:15 this video review shows a scene from GOTG2:


I guess there might be some judder in the UHD50 but it's not very noticeable nor "severe" as per the OP.
DunMunro is offline  
post #11 of 26 Old 12-24-2019, 05:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,817
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 976 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
At 18:15 this video review shows a scene from GOTG2:

https://youtu.be/bo9CM2WwSqI?t=1096

I guess there might be some judder in the UHD50 but it's not very noticeable nor "severe" as per the OP.
I think the video is slowed down because that is some severe juddering.
But this is the kind of juddering that can appear in some panning shots.
noob00224 is online now  
post #12 of 26 Old 12-24-2019, 06:14 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Out West
Posts: 1,660
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 930 Post(s)
Liked: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
I think the video is slowed down because that is some severe juddering.
But this is the kind of juddering that can appear in some panning shots.
I don't see anything there that I would call severe judder.
DunMunro is offline  
post #13 of 26 Old 12-24-2019, 07:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sage11x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 6,943
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2956 Post(s)
Liked: 3040
optoma uhd300x motion judder

Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
On the W2000/HT3050 with the projector set at 23Hz (23.97x) and source video at 23.976fps judder is observed sometimes in wide shot panning scenes.
I can barely see 3:2 pulldown if the display is at 60Hz with a 24p source.

Has DLP improved this aspect (judder) in recent 4K models?


I see 3:2 pulldown fairly easily now.

4K DLPs are typically locked to 60Hz due to the pixel shift required to complete the image. While this is similar for both the .47 and .67 DMDs I’ll use the .47 (quad shift) as an example because it’s clearly the more popular of the two.

The DMD on the .47 DLPs runs at 240Hz— it produces 4 distinct pixels for each frame of a 60Hz video signal. It has to to address each pixel in a native 4K image (1080p x 4 = 4K). This is achieved through an optical actuator oscillating at 240Hz coupled with a ‘4X’ color wheel with two RGB segments per rotation (7200rpm wheel = 120Hz multiplied by two RGB(W) = 240Hz).

Because of the pixel shift required to produce the image there is no way to display 24Hz natively in this model. Previously the only way to display 24Hz on one of these 4K DLPs was to disable the pixel shift and run it as a native 1080p projector— which is exactly what happens when displaying 3D. In 1080p you can simply ‘flash’ the same frame 5 times (fun fact that’s where the 5X color wheel speed of the HT3050 and HT2050A comes from).

To display 4K in 24Hz you’d need to change the frequency of the DMD, the optical actuator AND the speed of the colorwheel. Which... is exactly what BenQ did. Every time someone complains about the HT3550 making noises when you put on a movie it’s because the projector is literally throttling the colorwheel and actuator to match the new refresh of the DMD. Check the specs on the Ht3550 and you’ll see this line:


Color Wheel Speed
2D: 96Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz
3D: 120Hz

That 96Hz is important. That’s the speed the color wheel is dropped to when 24Hz film content is detected. 96Hz with two RGB slices per rotation means 192Hz. 24Hz x 4 pixels per frame = 92Hz and then each full 4K frame is repeated once so 96Hz x 2 = 192Hz. Badabingbadaboom. The DMD and actuator are both ran at the same in this example. As far as I know, BenQ is the only company to employ this solution. Optoma uses the frame interpolation method you mentioned above and Viewsonic just does the 3:2 pulldown.
noob00224 and DunMunro like this.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

-- Excerpt from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Last edited by sage11x; 12-24-2019 at 07:33 PM.
sage11x is offline  
post #14 of 26 Old 12-30-2019, 10:21 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Projector has been delivered to the owner, and before that I got to use it for some 50 hours (Mandalorian

I got used to the judder on the UHD300x, but it was definitely there when there was too much motion... Makes action scenes hard to follow. If the info about UHD51/a is correct, then I was just used to it's much improved motion handling, which makes sense. Can't wait to check it out again when back home.

I'm amazed at the number and quality of the replies here, thank you all for taking the time!

Off topic: really considering upping up my projection game. What would you guys recommend under $6K? (link to another thread is welcomed) ... JVC N5 sounds quite good, is that the new king at this price point?
auleo is offline  
post #15 of 26 Old 12-30-2019, 10:34 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,817
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 976 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by auleo View Post
Projector has been delivered to the owner, and before that I got to use it for some 50 hours (Mandalorian

I got used to the judder on the UHD300x, but it was definitely there when there was too much motion... Makes action scenes hard to follow. If the info about UHD51/a is correct, then I was just used to it's much improved motion handling, which makes sense. Can't wait to check it out again when back home.

I'm amazed at the number and quality of the replies here, thank you all for taking the time!

Off topic: really considering upping up my projection game. What would you guys recommend under $6K? (link to another thread is welcomed) ... JVC N5 sounds quite good, is that the new king at this price point?
What is using motion handling (on the 51A), you mean motion interpolation?

Arguably the most important aspect of projectors is contrast/black level. In order to achieve this cross reflections from walls must be eliminated, as well as light control.
Example:
https://www.facebook.com/projectiond...2721894385217/

Use dark paint or dark fabrics.

In very dark scenes this will be less of a problem, but as scenes get brighter the contrast will be affected more and more.

If the room can be treated there are options, but if not, then not sure what can be improved on the 51A.
There are things, but contrast is #1 .
noob00224 is online now  
post #16 of 26 Old 12-31-2019, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
What is using motion handling (on the 51A), you mean motion interpolation?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Arguably the most important aspect of projectors is contrast/black level. In order to achieve this cross reflections from walls must be eliminated, as well as light control.
Example:
https://www.facebook.com/projectiond...2721894385217/

Use dark paint or dark fabrics.

In very dark scenes this will be less of a problem, but as scenes get brighter the contrast will be affected more and more.

If the room can be treated there are options, but if not, then not sure what can be improved on the 51A.
There are things, but contrast is #1 .
Good call. My current projection room is not ideal:
1. projector sits ~4m from the screen, but that is not enough to make the huge ~150'' image fit, so it's slightly tilted
2. screen is "OWLENZ 120 inch Projection Screen 16:9 HD Foldable Anti-Crease Portable" stretched to ~150" ... you can see the material is not meant to be stretched like this!
3. walls are completely white and bounce off a lot of light.

See attached schematic.

Getting a more suitable projection room would mean moving to a different home. Getting a new projector while using the same room is a challenge because I'm yet to find a 4K projector with such a short throw as the Optoma.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	projection-room.png
Views:	10
Size:	221.1 KB
ID:	2661828  
auleo is offline  
post #17 of 26 Old 12-31-2019, 09:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,817
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 976 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by auleo View Post
Yes.


Good call. My current projection room is not ideal:
1. projector sits ~4m from the screen, but that is not enough to make the huge ~150'' image fit, so it's slightly tilted
2. screen is "OWLENZ 120 inch Projection Screen 16:9 HD Foldable Anti-Crease Portable" stretched to ~150" ... you can see the material is not meant to be stretched like this!
3. walls are completely white and bounce off a lot of light.

See attached schematic.

Getting a more suitable projection room would mean moving to a different home. Getting a new projector while using the same room is a challenge because I'm yet to find a 4K projector with such a short throw as the Optoma.
Ideally the screen should be perpendicular to the floor. Keystone is software and degrades the image.

If the room cannot be treated then it's not really worth getting another projector.

The 51A is sharp enough.
A brighter model could be from the Epsons, but they are not as sharp, and if you're happy with the brightness, then no reason to change.
3LCD on the Epson does not handle motion as well as DLP.

A projector with good black levels would deliver better black level in very dark image, but as images get brighter they will be affected by the reflections.

What about using curtains to reduce reflections?

Better to invest in something else, like a proper screen, or audio.

One way to improve picture quality, especially blacks, is to paint the screen in a special mix of paint. It will make the dark parts darker and bright parts brighter.
It's not complicated, but does require painting.
noob00224 is online now  
post #18 of 26 Old 12-31-2019, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Ideally the screen should be perpendicular to the floor. Keystone is software and degrades the image.
UHD51/a does not have keystone control, so the image is just slightly tilted. But you have to be paying close attention to notice, as the screen is slightly tilted as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
If the room cannot be treated then it's not really worth getting another projector.

The 51A is sharp enough.
A brighter model could be from the Epsons, but they are not as sharp, and if you're happy with the brightness, then no reason to change.
3LCD on the Epson does not handle motion as well as DLP.

A projector with good black levels would deliver better black level in very dark image, but as images get brighter they will be affected by the reflections.

What about using curtains to reduce reflections?
That is another weak point in my setup right now... Blacks look washed, not really very dark. Bright scenes look great though, super sharp indeed. Curtains are not necessary, the one small window in the room is completely sealed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Better to invest in something else, like a proper screen, or audio.

One way to improve picture quality, especially blacks, is to paint the screen in a special mix of paint. It will make the dark parts darker and bright parts brighter.
It's not complicated, but does require painting.
You mean painting the actual fabric? What kind of paint would you use for that?

I'm still deciding which route I should go down for blacking out the walls:
1. black paint
2. curtains
3. fabric + wooden frames
auleo is offline  
post #19 of 26 Old 12-31-2019, 11:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,817
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 976 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by auleo View Post
UHD51/a does not have keystone control, so the image is just slightly tilted. But you have to be paying close attention to notice, as the screen is slightly tilted as well.


That is another weak point in my setup right now... Blacks look washed, not really very dark. Bright scenes look great though, super sharp indeed. Curtains are not necessary, the one small window in the room is completely sealed.




You mean painting the actual fabric? What kind of paint would you use for that?

I'm still deciding which route I should go down for blacking out the walls:
1. black paint
2. curtains
3. fabric + wooden frames
I'm not referring to curtains for the windows, but indoor curtains for fabric.
Example:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post55371802

If the projector has good/great blacks black velvet is recommended in the proximity of the screen.
The rest of the room a dark paint, anything but white.

There are many ways of using fabrics for reducing reflections, there is a dedicated thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...image-235.html

Yes, paint the screen.

A popular formula is called Silver Fire:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...-2-thread.html

The components can be found on amazon or locally.
Best to make a new thread on the DIY screens subforum for that.

LE:
A similar question of paint vs velvet on a poor contrast projector:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...vs-velvet.html

Last edited by noob00224; 12-31-2019 at 11:30 AM.
noob00224 is online now  
post #20 of 26 Old 12-31-2019, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
I'm not referring to curtains for the windows, but indoor curtains for fabric.
Example:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post55371802

If the projector has good/great blacks black velvet is recommended in the proximity of the screen.
The rest of the room a dark paint, anything but white.

There are many ways of using fabrics for reducing reflections, there is a dedicated thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...image-235.html

Yes, paint the screen.

A popular formula is called Silver Fire:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...-2-thread.html

The components can be found on amazon or locally.
Best to make a new thread on the DIY screens subforum for that.

LE:
A similar question of paint vs velvet on a poor contrast projector:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...vs-velvet.html
Hmm, I've seen people painting walls and use them as screens, this is the first time I hear about painting a screen fabric.

Problem for me is I'm located in the Netherlands, all those products for the screen paint are not found here easily.

Regarding velvet: rough calculation puts my room (walls + ceiling) at ~70m2.

Local retailer quotes velvet @ €20 / m2, so total build price would be ~ €1400. That's the price I payed for the projector :/

https://www.textielstad.nl/stoffen/s...vet-zwart.html
auleo is offline  
post #21 of 26 Old 12-31-2019, 02:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Out West
Posts: 1,660
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 930 Post(s)
Liked: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by auleo View Post
Hmm, I've seen people painting walls and use them as screens, this is the first time I hear about painting a screen fabric.

Problem for me is I'm located in the Netherlands, all those products for the screen paint are not found here easily.

Regarding velvet: rough calculation puts my room (walls + ceiling) at ~70m2.

Local retailer quotes velvet @ €20 / m2, so total build price would be ~ €1400. That's the price I payed for the projector :/

https://www.textielstad.nl/stoffen/s...vet-zwart.html
You can just use inexpensive black drapes for the walls, and hang them on curtain rods, and I'm sure they have paint stores in Holland. Typically screen paint mixes use common ingredients, that may go by another name in the EU, but I'd paint the wall if the possible.
DunMunro is offline  
post #22 of 26 Old 12-31-2019, 02:53 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,817
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 976 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by auleo View Post
Hmm, I've seen people painting walls and use them as screens, this is the first time I hear about painting a screen fabric.

Problem for me is I'm located in the Netherlands, all those products for the screen paint are not found here easily.

Regarding velvet: rough calculation puts my room (walls + ceiling) at ~70m2.

Local retailer quotes velvet @ €20 / m2, so total build price would be ~ €1400. That's the price I payed for the projector :/

https://www.textielstad.nl/stoffen/s...vet-zwart.html
I did not find the paint materials locally either, will have to get them via amazon.com/uk. Not expensive.

For velvet there should be less expensive options:
https://syfabrics.com/collections/pl...triple-velvet1
https://www.abmuk.net/pages/flock-material

Inquire in these threads:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...image-208.html

These are threads on a UK forum:
https://www.avforums.com/threads/max...595980/page-58
https://www.avforums.com/threads/ded...2262708/page-2

Don't have to use velvet for everything, just the area around the screen:

noob00224 is online now  
post #23 of 26 Old 12-31-2019, 03:22 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,817
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 976 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by auleo View Post
Hmm, I've seen people painting walls and use them as screens, this is the first time I hear about painting a screen fabric.

Problem for me is I'm located in the Netherlands, all those products for the screen paint are not found here easily.

Regarding velvet: rough calculation puts my room (walls + ceiling) at ~70m2.

Local retailer quotes velvet @ €20 / m2, so total build price would be ~ €1400. That's the price I payed for the projector :/

https://www.textielstad.nl/stoffen/s...vet-zwart.html
Also not all velvet is the same, they behave differently depending on light direction/view angle:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post58225900
noob00224 is online now  
post #24 of 26 Old 01-04-2020, 03:41 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Also not all velvet is the same, they behave differently depending on light direction/view angle:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post58225900
Thanks guys, you give me a lot of useful info. I need to find some time and start sourcing these materials. I have posted a new thread about this home build, as this is going out of topic here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...ttik-room.html
auleo is offline  
post #25 of 26 Old 01-13-2020, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 1
hey guys, lots of building today! I was in the UK and decided to pull the trigger on the whaleys velvet (https://www.whaleys-bradford.ltd.uk/...t-black-devore).

Got 40m2 of it! R.I.P. my wallet :P ... but it's darker than dark! Wow, very impressive. 40m2 I can do pretty much the whole room now. I also moved the screen. More pics and details here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...l#post59095320

See velvet pic attached.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
You can just use inexpensive black drapes for the walls, and hang them on curtain rods, and I'm sure they have paint stores in Holland. Typically screen paint mixes use common ingredients, that may go by another name in the EU, but I'd paint the wall if the possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Also not all velvet is the same, they behave differently depending on light direction/view angle:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post58225900
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	velvet.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	102.3 KB
ID:	2669546  
auleo is offline  
post #26 of 26 Old 01-13-2020, 06:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,817
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 976 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by auleo View Post
hey guys, lots of building today! I was in the UK and decided to pull the trigger on the whaleys velvet (https://www.whaleys-bradford.ltd.uk/...t-black-devore).

Got 40m2 of it! R.I.P. my wallet :P ... but it's darker than dark! Wow, very impressive. 40m2 I can do pretty much the whole room now. I also moved the screen. More pics and details here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...l#post59095320

See velvet pic attached.
Post the pictures and info on this thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...image-237.html
noob00224 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off