BenQ TK850 4K HDR10/HLG 3000lm Home Entertainment Projector Review/Owners Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 106 Old 01-28-2020, 03:09 AM
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Extrapolating sage's results from the review, the TK850 with 100% zoom and Normal lamp is capable of ~1450 lumens in Sports/Living Room, ~1300 in Cinema, and ~850 with the improvements for dark room viewing. The image becomes more accurate but covers less of the DCI P3.

This review of the W2700 (HT3550) has some interesting results: https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blo...-second-round/
With 100% zoom in Normal lamp it can do ~1200 in Vivid TV, ~1350 in Cinema, and ~1300 calibrated.
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post #62 of 106 Old 01-28-2020, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Extrapolating sage's results from the review, the TK850 with 100% zoom and Normal lamp is capable of ~1450 lumens in Sports/Living Room, ~1300 in Cinema, and ~850 with the improvements for dark room viewing. The image becomes more accurate but covers less of the DCI P3.

This review of the W2700 (HT3550) has some interesting results: https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blo...-second-round/
With 100% zoom in Normal lamp it can do ~1200 in Vivid TV, ~1350 in Cinema, and ~1300 calibrated.
I would expect the TK850 to have similar output to an TK800M. Kraine measured the TK800M at 2871 in Vivid, 2774 in cinema and 2662 lumens calibrated.
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post #63 of 106 Old 01-28-2020, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
This review of the W2700 (HT3550) has some interesting results: https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blo...-second-round/
With 100% zoom in Normal lamp it can do ~1200 in Vivid TV, ~1350 in Cinema, and ~1300 calibrated.
That's the main problem here: every reviewer that measured the HT3550 came up with different figures. Projector Central measured 467 lumens in D.Cinema mode, and about 1100 in Cinema mode with WCG off (vs 708 and 1345 for the above PHM).

Secrets of Home Theater got similar numbers to Projector Central (about 120 Nits on a 90" screen), but Projector Reviews measured 893 lumens in D.Cinema mode.

The above discrepancies could partially be explained by different zoom levels each reviewer applied, but only Projector Reviews noted that variable.

So depending on which measurement is accurate, the HT3550 could be fine driving a large screen, or it could be too dim.
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post #64 of 106 Old 01-29-2020, 09:37 AM
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Thanks, I really do appreciate the kind words!

I did— that measurement was the best I could get with everything off. The ONLY thing I didn’t test is the silent (1080p) mode. Which I can test for you tonight.

I’m willing to bet the discrepancy between BenQ’s estimates and my measurements comes down to input signal. I’m using a 1080p Leo Bodnar and the scaling required might account for the some 8-16ms difference between my score and theirs. Bodnar does make a 4K tester but, unfortunately, it’s $400. And, yeah, I’m not going to be able to do it. Haha.

One of the new models BenQ is working on is a 4K projector aimed specifically at gamers. That’s about all I can say at this point because that’s about all the information there is.
sage11x,
thank you so much for your review. I've waited so long to get someone to review this projector and you saved me.
I was considering the tk800 first, than the 3550 came but the lumens output wasn't enough for my likings and for my living room is light control is far from ideal. (i'm coming from a Optoma GT750 projected on a whiteish wall, please don't laugh). So this precious projector came out with the best specs on paper ever. Seemed perfect.

BUT the input lag... I want to cry... Is it really undoable for gaming? I'm a casual game, mostly playing non competitive games, on my couch, like GTA, Red Dead Redemption 2, stuff like that. Is the input lag a killer for this projector?

You are my Guru to projector related subjects, i'm following your posts from Brazil. So, shine me a light and your thoughts if should I grab this projector I was really waiting for, or go for something like the epson HC3800.

Gaming is NOT the main reason for me to get the projector, I mostly watch movies and streaming content, but i would hate to NOT be able to play my games eventually on the projector I'll get.

Btw, do you have a video review or videos of this projector in action?

Thank you!
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post #65 of 106 Old 01-29-2020, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
I would expect the TK850 to have similar output to an TK800M. Kraine measured the TK800M at 2871 in Vivid, 2774 in cinema and 2662 lumens calibrated.
The discrepancy is as much as 700 lumens between the two measurements. PC takes them with 100% zoom.

https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blo...st-benq-tk800/
vs.
https://www.projectorcentral.com/BenQ-TK800-review.htm

TK800M:
https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blo...is-de-gregory/
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post #66 of 106 Old 01-29-2020, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malvadeza View Post
sage11x,
thank you so much for your review. I've waited so long to get someone to review this projector and you saved me.
I was considering the tk800 first, than the 3550 came but the lumens output wasn't enough for my likings and for my living room is light control is far from ideal. (i'm coming from a Optoma GT750 projected on a whiteish wall, please don't laugh). So this precious projector came out with the best specs on paper ever. Seemed perfect.

BUT the input lag... I want to cry... Is it really undoable for gaming? I'm a casual game, mostly playing non competitive games, on my couch, like GTA, Red Dead Redemption 2, stuff like that. Is the input lag a killer for this projector?

You are my Guru to projector related subjects, i'm following your posts from Brazil. So, shine me a light and your thoughts if should I grab this projector I was really waiting for, or go for something like the epson HC3800.

Gaming is NOT the main reason for me to get the projector, I mostly watch movies and streaming content, but i would hate to NOT be able to play my games eventually on the projector I'll get.

Btw, do you have a video review or videos of this projector in action?

Thank you!
This input lag thing is making me sad.
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post #67 of 106 Old 01-30-2020, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malvadeza View Post
sage11x,

thank you so much for your review. I've waited so long to get someone to review this projector and you saved me.

I was considering the tk800 first, than the 3550 came but the lumens output wasn't enough for my likings and for my living room is light control is far from ideal. (i'm coming from a Optoma GT750 projected on a whiteish wall, please don't laugh). So this precious projector came out with the best specs on paper ever. Seemed perfect.



BUT the input lag... I want to cry... Is it really undoable for gaming? I'm a casual game, mostly playing non competitive games, on my couch, like GTA, Red Dead Redemption 2, stuff like that. Is the input lag a killer for this projector?



You are my Guru to projector related subjects, i'm following your posts from Brazil. So, shine me a light and your thoughts if should I grab this projector I was really waiting for, or go for something like the epson HC3800.



Gaming is NOT the main reason for me to get the projector, I mostly watch movies and streaming content, but i would hate to NOT be able to play my games eventually on the projector I'll get.



Btw, do you have a video review or videos of this projector in action?



Thank you!


I appreciate that!

So I’ve learned not to pass judgement when it comes to what people find acceptable for input lag. Plenty of people game on the Ht3550 and say they can’t feel any added latency. For the record— I felt that projector had too much lag and I don’t play games on it.

So I can only speak for me: for me the Tk850 has too much lag to be a useful gaming display. Your mileage may vary. I have been accused of being more than a little picky in this area and— full disclosure— I typically play on a gaming monitor to make sure I have the lowest possible latency.
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BenQ TK850 4K HDR10/HLG 3000lm Home Entertainment Projector Review/Owners Thread

Btw, here is the best thing you can buy for your theater assuming you don’t have a projector with motorized zoom.

An inexpensive, close focus monocular and a cheap tripod. Easiest way to focus your projector. I already had the tripod for photos, video recording, my colorimeter and even my audyssey setup mic so this meant all I needed was the monocular. Got it on amazon for less than $40. It’s also good for bird watching and spying on your neighbors......

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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
The discrepancy is as much as 700 lumens between the two measurements. PC takes them with 100% zoom.
100% zoomed in, or 100% zoomed out?
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post #70 of 106 Old 01-31-2020, 12:00 AM
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100% zoomed in, or 100% zoomed out?
The amount of zoom used is 100%. If less zoom is used the image becomes smaller. So zoomed in?
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
The amount of zoom used is 100%. If less zoom is used the image becomes smaller. So zoomed in?
No, that means zoomed out; zoomed in means towards the telephoto end of the lens, where the image is smallest.

Zoomed out is where you get max luminance, so the reviewer was trying to maximise luminance.
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post #72 of 106 Old 01-31-2020, 06:26 AM
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Great review Sage, appreciate the effort!

Im looking at this PJ or the HT3550, planning on pairing it with an XY Screen ALR Pet Crystal (0.8gain) any potential issues from your experience with this setup?
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Originally Posted by Dhiren Raghvani View Post
Great review Sage, appreciate the effort!

Im looking at this PJ or the HT3550, planning on pairing it with an XY Screen ALR Pet Crystal (0.8gain) any potential issues from your experience with this setup?
The XY screen Pet Crystal is for ultra short throw projectors. You want the XY Screen Black Crystal screen for the TK850.

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post #74 of 106 Old 01-31-2020, 08:28 AM
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The XY screen Pet Crystal is for ultra short throw projectors. You want the XY Screen Black Crystal screen for the TK850.
Yes you are right...thanks for the correction. @sage11x please feel free to comment on this setup (both with the 3550 & 850) - I will have ambient light for sports but the other times it will be dark including walls but not the ceiling as this has to remain white. Im looking at XY due to price and because I need an electric screen.

Last edited by Dhiren Raghvani; 01-31-2020 at 08:35 AM.
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post #75 of 106 Old 01-31-2020, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes you are right...thanks for the correction. @sage11x please feel free to comment on this setup (both with the 3550 & 850) - I will have ambient light for sports but the other times it will be dark including walls but not the ceiling as this has to remain white. Im looking at XY due to price and because I need an electric screen.


I’d have to defer here to someone who has more experience with ALR screens. I demoed one and decided it wasn’t for me. Ended up with a fixed screen in white. I appreciate what ALR screens do but, at least on the one I looked at, the artifacts were a bit of a no go for me. I like a consistent image with wide viewing angles.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
I’d have to defer here to someone who has more experience with ALR screens. I demoed one and decided it wasn’t for me. Ended up with a fixed screen in white. I appreciate what ALR screens do but, at least on the one I looked at, the artifacts were a bit of a no go for me. I like a consistent image with wide viewing angles.
Thanks, @noob00224 mentioned artifacts, which was why I suddenly questioned myself as I was pretty fixed on the ALR screen. Unfortunately I do not have the luxury of waiting for samples so want to be armed with all the info before making a choice!
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post #77 of 106 Old 02-01-2020, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dhiren Raghvani View Post
Thanks, @noob00224 mentioned artifacts, which was why I suddenly questioned myself as I was pretty fixed on the ALR screen. Unfortunately I do not have the luxury of waiting for samples so want to be armed with all the info before making a choice!


High gain ALR screens can sometimes show sparkles as well as hot spotting. Viewing angles are narrower than conventional screens. The good news is they display far better contrast/blacks with less wash out in rooms with ambient light.
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I've just found a review of the projector. It looks stunning!
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post #79 of 106 Old 02-05-2020, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Btw, here is the best thing you can buy for your theater assuming you don’t have a projector with motorized zoom.

An inexpensive, close focus monocular and a cheap tripod. Easiest way to focus your projector. I already had the tripod for photos, video recording, my colorimeter and even my audyssey setup mic so this meant all I needed was the monocular. Got it on amazon for less than $40. It’s also good for bird watching and spying on your neighbors......


For the clueless amongst us, can you explain how does it focus the projector?
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For the clueless amongst us, can you explain how does it focus the projector?
You set up the spotting scope beside the projector, so that you can view the screen through the scope, and still have one hand on the projector focus ring. At least that's how I do it.
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post #81 of 106 Old 02-05-2020, 06:07 PM
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You set up the spotting scope beside the projector, so that you can view the screen through the scope, and still have one hand on the projector focus ring. At least that's how I do it.
Thanks. I thought that might be the way it was used, but I wasn't sure.
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post #82 of 106 Old 02-09-2020, 06:04 PM
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And another TK850 review:

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Would anybody mind sharing their calibration settings? Out of the box the yellow is very "mustard"

Also, I thought I saw a post about somebody seeing doubles when watching sports, but I cannot find the post. Is there any recommendation for what to turn off when this happens? Thank you!
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Would anybody mind sharing their calibration settings? Out of the box the yellow is very "mustard"



Also, I thought I saw a post about somebody seeing doubles when watching sports, but I cannot find the post. Is there any recommendation for what to turn off when this happens? Thank you!


I’ll post my setting whenever I get home.

But I’ll tell you right now: decreasing the brilliant color setting is probably the biggest recommendation I can make.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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RE: Gaming on this projector: I'm seeing a lot of people here who are kind of bummed about the input lag, but I firmly believe the lag with a 4K signal isn't that bad. Remember, folks like Sage are using a 1080p input lag measurement device (because the 4K version is super expensive). Their measured lag figures should have an asterisk next to the value, because it's really hard to say what this thing's lag is with a 4K signal (which anyone with a PS4 Pro or an Xbox One X will be outputting to the projector).

I am the very definition of a casual gamer, admittedly, but I've been able to game just fine on this thing. I play Doom, Red Dead Redemption 2, GTA 5, Assassin's Creed Odyssey, and many other games just fine on it. I don't see any noticeable delay between when I push a button on the controller and my character does the thing associated with said button.

"Okay", you say, "but obviously there's SOME amount of input lag. You might not be noticing it, but it might be hurting your performance". Fair enough, but I also play Overwatch, which is an esports game that is highly affected by input lag. I also play Ashe, who is a character ESPECIALLY affected by input lag, because she needs good aim or she's useless. I have played plenty of Overwatch on both the TK800 and the TK850, and before that I played it on an HT2050 (not the A revision). The nice thing about Overwatch is that it quantifies your performance with a Skill Ranking, if your ranking goes down, you are playing worse. My skill ranking in Overwatch has always hovered between 2000 and 2500 between all three projectors. If the TK850's lag was really appreciably worse than the TK800 or HT2050, I'd have seen my Skill Ranking decline over the past few months playing with the TK850. My skill ranking hasn't declined, I don't feel like I'm missing shots more often, and overall the responsiveness "feels" the same between the three projectors.

So, all in all, it probably comes down to skill level. If I were a way better Overwatch player and had a 4000 skill rank, maybe the input lag would be problematic. But for an average player, the TK850 is fine for gaming (IMO), even on esports titles.
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
I’ll post my setting whenever I get home.

But I’ll tell you right now: decreasing the brilliant color setting is probably the biggest recommendation I can make.



I'd also love to see your calibration results if its not too much to ask
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Also, I thought I saw a post about somebody seeing doubles when watching sports, but I cannot find the post. Is there any recommendation for what to turn off when this happens? Thank you!
Quick update on this, I managed to capture it on video and I have opened a ticket with Benq. (Watch the outline of #88 )
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post #88 of 106 Old 02-12-2020, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentbolt View Post
RE: Gaming on this projector: I'm seeing a lot of people here who are kind of bummed about the input lag, but I firmly believe the lag with a 4K signal isn't that bad. Remember, folks like Sage are using a 1080p input lag measurement device (because the 4K version is super expensive). Their measured lag figures should have an asterisk next to the value, because it's really hard to say what this thing's lag is with a 4K signal (which anyone with a PS4 Pro or an Xbox One X will be outputting to the projector).

I am the very definition of a casual gamer, admittedly, but I've been able to game just fine on this thing. I play Doom, Red Dead Redemption 2, GTA 5, Assassin's Creed Odyssey, and many other games just fine on it. I don't see any noticeable delay between when I push a button on the controller and my character does the thing associated with said button.

"Okay", you say, "but obviously there's SOME amount of input lag. You might not be noticing it, but it might be hurting your performance". Fair enough, but I also play Overwatch, which is an esports game that is highly affected by input lag. I also play Ashe, who is a character ESPECIALLY affected by input lag, because she needs good aim or she's useless. I have played plenty of Overwatch on both the TK800 and the TK850, and before that I played it on an HT2050 (not the A revision). The nice thing about Overwatch is that it quantifies your performance with a Skill Ranking, if your ranking goes down, you are playing worse. My skill ranking in Overwatch has always hovered between 2000 and 2500 between all three projectors. If the TK850's lag was really appreciably worse than the TK800 or HT2050, I'd have seen my Skill Ranking decline over the past few months playing with the TK850. My skill ranking hasn't declined, I don't feel like I'm missing shots more often, and overall the responsiveness "feels" the same between the three projectors.

So, all in all, it probably comes down to skill level. If I were a way better Overwatch player and had a 4000 skill rank, maybe the input lag would be problematic. But for an average player, the TK850 is fine for gaming (IMO), even on esports titles.
https://www.benq.com/en-me/support/d...q-k-00067.html

Even Benq says the TK850 should not be used for competitive FPS. The HT2050 is around 33ms, the TK800 is around 44ms, and the TK850 is estimated 58ms on the low end. If your input lag is only slightly increasing each time you've upgraded projectors, the difference is not going to be as noticeable (if at all). That is likely the reason you are not seeing a difference. Your Overwatch skill level not fluctuating dramatically with each display change also reflects this.

It’s not just FPS, either. Try any metroidvania type platform game or fighter that requires quick and precise button movement and you will notice if the input lag is an issue or not.

For me, it’s the reason I don’t have a TK850 hanging in my HT room right now, but I agree for most people it will not be an issue.
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post #89 of 106 Old 02-12-2020, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by RaptorsFan View Post
Quick update on this, I managed to capture it on video and I have opened a ticket with Benq. (Watch the outline of #88 )
Have you tried turning the MEMC off?

Does it happen with other types of content, blu ray's for instance?
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post #90 of 106 Old 02-12-2020, 02:12 PM
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@noob00224 The Motion Enhancer 4k is off. This is coming from a 1080i source. All 4k content has been from Disney+, Netflix, and Xbox, other than the yellow issue i mentioned the picture is very good. Star Wars, Avatar, F1 all passed the eye test. I only see this with sports, golf balls and players in motion.

I have started the rma process so we'll hopefully see that I'm just unlucky. But with the same issue also reported in the other thread I'm not so sure...
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