Pulling my hair out over new projector - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 14 Old 01-24-2020, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Question Pulling my hair out over new projector

So I have a 17' screen to mount on a 138" diagonal screen in a completely dark room(the mount can be moved if needed)
I am using a Denon 1713 ud blu ray player/sometimes a ps3/4 and a denon s9000w hdr 7.2 setup. Screeen is Mississippi man 1.3 gain DIY. Previously I had a benq w7000 that I really liked but lately felt and wished it was just a bit brighter. Now that is gone and I need to make a decision. I primarily watch movies, can stream net flix and amazon prime, and of course some big event sports. The kids will do some gaming but they are pretty much off to college so the dedicated theater is pretty much for me now.

So I have been reading up and my eyes are ready to pop out. Some suggestions for a used JVC are just hard to find, and I think I would be better off with a new or refurb unit with some kind of warranty. I seem to have more questions now than when I started looking, paralysis by analysis I guess.

I was looking at the epsons 3800 and the 4010 at best buys, but after reading the forums became confused. I wanted to go to some 4k machine and expanded my budget from 1000 to 15-1700 dollars as the more I researched..... well I just became overwhelmed I guess.

I have been on projector central and youtube and it seems with my set up, will I find a big advantage on a 4k machine?
Benq 3550, optomo 60 or epson 4010, 3800 but feel like I should get a more newer /recent projector? ) Reading the forums on the older 4k projectors (earlier than 2017 ), and some of the processing is not meeting what is needed for 2019 and beyond.

I hate to dribble on but I am just frustrated and without any projector in my room, I am getting frustrated. Everyone has an opinion, and you guys helped me make my last selection of the benq w7000 , and that was good, so maybe this time you can chime in as well?
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post #2 of 14 Old 01-24-2020, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabby1 View Post
So I have a 17' screen to mount on a 138" diagonal screen in a completely dark room(the mount can be moved if needed)
I am using a Denon 1713 ud blu ray player/sometimes a ps3/4 and a denon s9000w hdr 7.2 setup. Screeen is Mississippi man 1.3 gain DIY. Previously I had a benq w7000 that I really liked but lately felt and wished it was just a bit brighter. Now that is gone and I need to make a decision. I primarily watch movies, can stream net flix and amazon prime, and of course some big event sports. The kids will do some gaming but they are pretty much off to college so the dedicated theater is pretty much for me now.

So I have been reading up and my eyes are ready to pop out. Some suggestions for a used JVC are just hard to find, and I think I would be better off with a new or refurb unit with some kind of warranty. I seem to have more questions now than when I started looking, paralysis by analysis I guess.

I was looking at the epsons 3800 and the 4010 at best buys, but after reading the forums became confused. I wanted to go to some 4k machine and expanded my budget from 1000 to 15-1700 dollars as the more I researched..... well I just became overwhelmed I guess.

I have been on projector central and youtube and it seems with my set up, will I find a big advantage on a 4k machine?
Benq 3550, optomo 60 or epson 4010, 3800 but feel like I should get a more newer /recent projector? ) Reading the forums on the older 4k projectors (earlier than 2017 ), and some of the processing is not meeting what is needed for 2019 and beyond.

I hate to dribble on but I am just frustrated and without any projector in my room, I am getting frustrated. Everyone has an opinion, and you guys helped me make my last selection of the benq w7000 , and that was good, so maybe this time you can chime in as well?
So you're moving to a 17ft = 204in screen? Did you see the UHD52ALV videos?

I would suggest you'll need something pretty bright.
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post #3 of 14 Old 01-25-2020, 12:30 AM
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Is the room treated for reflective light or are there any white reflective surfaces like a white ceiling? This is by far the biggest determining factor to go with a High contrast dedicated room type of projector or more of a general media room projector.

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post #4 of 14 Old 01-25-2020, 12:51 AM
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What is the 17' and what is the 138"?
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post #5 of 14 Old 01-25-2020, 06:10 AM - Thread Starter
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So you're moving to a 17ft = 204in screen? Did you see the UHD52ALV videos?

My room is treated for light and reflections, the mount is ceiling and can be adjusted but the previous benq was shooting a 138" diagonal screen from here. I did look at the uhd 52alv but again I was confused with some of the reviews.

I am leaning toward just getting either the epson 3800 or the epson 4010 from best buy just because I can pick one up today.
3800 is newer tech but 4010 seems to have better pic?
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post #6 of 14 Old 01-25-2020, 08:02 AM
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The advantage the 3800 has over the 4010 is the ability to support 60HZ 4K HDR but with Bluray movies you don’t need this so maybe the better quality pics from the 4010 would be the way to go. Only fly in the ointment is streaming as quite a bit of their stuff can be 60Hz.

I completely get the desire to have some form of warranty, it’s one of the main reasons I didn’t go secondhand, especially as at the time Epson we’re offering through selected dealers 5yr warranty.

You didn’t mention how far back you sit, on a 138” screen I reckon if you are less than 12ft you could probably see the difference between Epson’s 2K (e-shift) and either True or Native 4K so maybe looking at one of the better DLPs out there should also be on your radar though blacks from them will be weaker. Another thing you didn’t say was whether your screen is acoustic or not, if it isn’t then you could use MississippiMan’s spray paint which could give you back the blacks that going the DLP option would lose though with a grey screen on that size you really would need a projector with plenty of lumens.

I think what ever you do you really need to go and get some demos of each so you have a guide as to what elements of each projector are good and what are bad. I can only speak about my 6050 and for the money I can’t think of a better projector.
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post #7 of 14 Old 01-25-2020, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, all good points. I have miss. mans diy screen about 1.3 gain. The benq dlp I used served me well but just wanted a bit brighter replacement. I watch movies in the dedicated theater with streaming from firestick and amazon, but also have quite a few blu ray discs. I want to get the best projector around the 1500$ range to get me through a couple of years until the laser 4k stuff sorts out. The 3800 and 4010 are available at my local bb and if I open a credit card I can get an additional 10% back in rewards.
What is your favorite DLP in the price range?
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post #8 of 14 Old 01-25-2020, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabby1 View Post
So you're moving to a 17ft = 204in screen? Did you see the UHD52ALV videos?

My room is treated for light and reflections, the mount is ceiling and can be adjusted but the previous benq was shooting a 138" diagonal screen from here. I did look at the uhd 52alv but again I was confused with some of the reviews.

I am leaning toward just getting either the epson 3800 or the epson 4010 from best buy just because I can pick one up today.
3800 is newer tech but 4010 seems to have better pic?
I meant these videos:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post59149194

Showing a UHD52ALV on a 200in screen. On a screen that large, I think you might appreciate a true 4K projector.
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post #9 of 14 Old 01-25-2020, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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the optomo's do look nice, the new unit has 3000 lumens as well. My local bb only has the 3200 in stock, not the 3800. most reviews show them as being very similar in pq, I dont need speakers but if I am going to have to order anyway to get the 3800, I might just look at other options like the optomo.
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post #10 of 14 Old 01-25-2020, 12:50 PM
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So what is the seating position?

With the current setup the throw ratio is 1.7x. If the mount is going to be kept in the same place this is the throw ratio the projector needs to be capable of.

The closer a projector is the brighter it will be and less sharp.
With positive gain screens there could be issues if the projector is too close. I don't know at what distance there might be artifacts, you could try the projector on a table with a white image projected. Check the center of the screen for sparkles and hotspot.

In that room a projector with nice blacks could be used. The only option in this price range outside used JVC (and Epson) is a refurbished Epson 5040UB directly from Epson. But I'm not sure if the JVC will be bright enough. I'd go with the 5040UB.

Two caveats with the 5040UB:

HDR tone mapping is not great, the Panasonic UB420/820/9000 (the last two have Dolby Vision support) has been used by owners of the 5040 and other models.

10GB HDMI bandwidth, which means no 4K 60Hz HDR 10bit, 30Hz at the most. Most video is at 24Hz, however some streaming services or boxes require 60Hz. This can be resolved by dropping the bit depth from 10bit to 8 via a HDfury linker, or another type device.

The 5050UB has better HDR tone mapping and an 18GB HDMI, but it's outside the budget.


The HC3800 is a brighter projector, but will not have the blacks the 5040UB has. It's got an 18GB HDMI.

The HT3550 is probably not bright enough, but projectors with non RGBRGB color wheels (like the UHD52ALV and TK850) while brighter will have worse blacks than the HT3550, and less color accuracy. They are living room projectors for ambient light.


Why not move the W7000 closer and get a new bulb, and wait for the next generation? Benq has a service that can clean the projector, inexpensive, which will improve PQ and probably brightness.
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post #11 of 14 Old 01-25-2020, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabby1 View Post
the optomo's do look nice, the new unit has 3000 lumens as well. My local bb only has the 3200 in stock, not the 3800. most reviews show them as being very similar in pq, I dont need speakers but if I am going to have to order anyway to get the 3800, I might just look at other options like the optomo.
Lumen values from next to the projector name is not a good way to assess brightness. Reviews that measure presets with lamp modes from Projector central for instance:
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Eps...tor-Review.htm
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Opt...ALV-review.htm

For the 5040UB the projector central measurements are off, use the ones for the HC4010, which is the 5040UB version without nice blacks:
https://www.projectorcentral.com/eps...010-review.htm
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post #12 of 14 Old 01-25-2020, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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So I went to bb today, they only had the 3200 in stock and had to order the 3800 so decided to order off amazon or crutchfield for the better return policy. I have been watching the epson refurbs but no 4010's but benq does have a 3550 that looks like it might work, but again the lumens are the same as my benq w7000 and I always wanted a little more brightness shooting at 16 1/2 feet. I am going to get some black velvet this week and treat my dark blue walls around the screen in prep for my new projector.
Gotta get something to have for superbowl, the benq w7000 is gone. I liked the optoma alot but it will not work for my throw and I do like having some lens shift.
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post #13 of 14 Old 01-25-2020, 05:54 PM
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There are 4010 refurbs on the Epson site right now. Not a big discount, but they are there.
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post #14 of 14 Old 01-25-2020, 06:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Thats funny, I have been checking that site for the last week
benq 3050 refurb with one year warranty, refurb 4010 with 2 year warranty, or new 3800 are all in the less than 1500 dollar range and would work for my theater.

although grabbing the 4010 at the current price is more 300$ what it has been in the past, but hey, I gotta do somethin,
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