BenQ 2050a: Daytime Use Screen Recommendations - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 16 Old 02-21-2020, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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BenQ 2050a: Daytime Use Screen Recommendations

I’m currently projecting the 2050a @ 135” to my wall in my living room. As you can imagine, daytime viewing is lacking. Looking for screen recommendations under $700. I’m currently looking at the Elite Screens Aeon and SableFrame ALR screens. I’m also curious about SilverTicket High Contrast (don’t think it’s ALR, but still good at handling daylight?). If anyone has any recommendations, that would be great. This is not my house. I cannot do rework the room to accommodate the projector. That’s my next house . Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 16 Old 02-21-2020, 09:27 AM
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It depends a lot on how much daytime and what direction the daytime is coming from in regards to the screen. Blocking the daytime is always the way better solution even if it is just going to the fabric store and buying some BOC and pinning it up to cover the daytime.

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post #3 of 16 Old 02-21-2020, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bboucher790 View Post
I’m currently projecting the 2050a @ 135” to my wall in my living room. As you can imagine, daytime viewing is lacking. Looking for screen recommendations under $700. I’m currently looking at the Elite Screens Aeon and SableFrame ALR screens. I’m also curious about SilverTicket High Contrast (don’t think it’s ALR, but still good at handling daylight?). If anyone has any recommendations, that would be great. This is not my house. I cannot do rework the room to accommodate the projector. That’s my next house . Thanks in advance.
135" is a large screen for the 2050a.

Use black out blinds.

The ST High Contrast Grey is an ALR screen with ~0.67 gain.

The 2050a's longest throw ratio of ~1.5x makes it difficult to get a screen without artifacts like hotspoting and sparkle.

With an ALR screen there must be no light coming from the same direction of the screen.

This is what a HT3050 looks like on a Cinegrey 3D (0.7 gain) from ~1.5x throw:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...l#post58809924

Fabrics like the Cinegrey 3D/5D and ALR types from Carl's can be found in fabric form, if you can build a wooden frame.

How far away is the projector from the screen?



So what is the source and intensity of the ambient light? And what is the type of video watched, dark or bright?

One option is painting a screen. A white PVC screen can be used. The paint mix can have ALR properties and since it's customizable, the right shade with the right properties can be had.
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post #4 of 16 Old 02-22-2020, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
135" is a large screen for the 2050a.

Use black out blinds.

The ST High Contrast Grey is an ALR screen with ~0.67 gain.

The 2050a's longest throw ratio of ~1.5x makes it difficult to get a screen without artifacts like hotspoting and sparkle.

With an ALR screen there must be no light coming from the same direction of the screen.

This is what a HT3050 looks like on a Cinegrey 3D (0.7 gain) from ~1.5x throw:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...l#post58809924

Fabrics like the Cinegrey 3D/5D and ALR types from Carl's can be found in fabric form, if you can build a wooden frame.

How far away is the projector from the screen?



So what is the source and intensity of the ambient light? And what is the type of video watched, dark or bright?

One option is painting a screen. A white PVC screen can be used. The paint mix can have ALR properties and since it's customizable, the right shade with the right properties can be had.
Would be using black out blinds if I could. This is not my house. Not an option.

Also looking for a screen that’s ready to be assembled and mounted, nothing DIY. Couldn’t figure out where to buy the ST screen you linked.

Projector is probably about 12 - 14 ft from wall. I’ll have to measure to get an exact distance. The projector is using a horizontal keystone, so it is offset on a table next to my couch with no window or lighting behind it. Daylight leaks in from both sides of room from the windows during day and ceiling lights about 10 - 20ft away at night (this is a huge long room). Ceiling lights at night are very manageable. Not really the issue, but I’m hoping ALR will rectify it a bit.

With the lights out, I get acceptable performance @ 135”. My previous setup was 90”. Both work for me, prefer size over brightness.

This is not my permanent setup, mainly interested in fixing my two year problem. I will have a more professional setup in the coming years.

Thanks in advance for all the info.

Last edited by bboucher790; 02-22-2020 at 07:41 AM.
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post #5 of 16 Old 02-22-2020, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bboucher790 View Post
Would be using black out blinds if I could. This is not my house. Not an option.

Also looking for a screen that’s ready to be assembled and mounted, nothing DIY. Couldn’t figure out where to buy the ST screen you linked.

Projector is probably about 12 - 14 ft from wall. I’ll have to measure to get an exact distance. The projector is using a horizontal keystone, so it is offset on a table next to my couch with no window or lighting behind it. Daylight leaks in from both sides of room from the windows during day and ceiling lights about 10 - 20ft away at night (this is a huge long room). Ceiling lights at night are very manageable. Not really the issue, but I’m hoping ALR will rectify it a bit.

With the lights out, I get acceptable performance @ 135”. My previous setup was 90”. Both work for me, prefer size over brightness.

This is not my permanent setup, mainly interested in fixing my two year problem. I will have a more professional setup in the coming years.

Thanks in advance for all the info.
What do you mean daylight leaks? How much light? A picture or a general example from the internet would be nice.

If you saw the pictures with the HT3050 and the Cinegrey 3D than it should be clear that watching any image that is darker with shadows is not possible with ambient light, regardless of projector/screen.

The other issue is the hotspot. In this budget this is the kind of hotspot you can expect. There are also sparkles in the middle of the screen in bright images. And all of these artifacts are with a 1.5x throw. Calculate your throw: https://www.projectorcentral.com/Ben...ulator-pro.htm
I don't know if the visual artifacts are acceptable.

The Cinegrey 3D and ST HC Grey have similar light rejecting properties from the side. This increases the effect of the hotspot and other artifacts.
A fabric that has less side rejecting properties is the XY Black Crystal with 0.8 gain. This will reduce the visual artifacts, but they will still be there. Of course if it has less side rejecting properties it will be more washed out by side light.
This is the XY BC 0.8 screen with a 1.4x throw:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...l#post58660710

Keystone should not be used if possible. Not only does it degrade the image, but angular ALR's are like a mirror. The beam from the projector will reflect in the screen at the same angle, but upwards. In your case it would probably overshoot the viewer's position.

You say that you prefer size over brightness, but IMO with the 2050a and an 135" 0.67 to 0.8 screen and ambient light it will be too dim.

The ST HC G:
https://www.amazon.com/STR-169100-HC...01N8PKC7J?th=1

Samples for the Silver Ticket: https://www.silverticketproducts.com...terial-samples
For XY BC 0.8 sample contact XY. An 135" might exceed the budget.

So, to summarize:
The screen is too large and too dim with this projector and ambient light.
The projector being on the table and with keystone will overshoot the viewers eyes, which can cause additional visual artifacts and dim the image further.
If the projected image is dark (or has dark parts) then the setup is unusable with ambient light.
Due to the HT2050a's limited throw ratio there will 100% be a hotspot and sparkles.

One way to fix this is to get a brighter projector that has lens shift and can be placed further back, like the Epson HC3100/3700, or HC3800 for 4K. Or a 5040UB refurbished, or 5050UB new. Recommended throw ratio is 1.9x or higher.

Epson refurbs cannot be returned unless faulty: https://epson.com/Clearance-Center/H...inment/c/cc301


All of that being said the picture will still be washed out to a degree, especially the dark parts.
Projectors are not TV's and in general should not be used in ambient light.

Last edited by noob00224; 02-22-2020 at 09:18 AM.
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post #6 of 16 Old 02-22-2020, 11:18 AM
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135” 16:9 screen is 66x117 or 7722 sq inches
110” 16:9 screen is 54x 96 or 5185 sq inches

That is a 50% increase in brightness.

If seated 11 foot from the 135” screen or 9 foot from the 110” screen there will be no noticable difference in the visual experience.

Sometimes the solution to projection brightness is a smaller screen and a closer viewing distance. Depending on where you place the projector zoom wise you can pick up a little more maybe 5-10% and then you have the option to run in the brighter mode (Normal not eco) gaining another 20%. And lastly you can use one of the less accurate color modes but not the brightest mode that may look greenish and pick up another 20-30% with little noticeable loss in PQ.

Sometimes you need brightness more than anything else. Sometimes CR and color accuracy is most important.

My room is dual usage and it is dark treated and bat cave black, but I still sometimes want to use it in a fairly bright setting that I control. I actually can move the projector closer along with doing all the things I mentioned above. My max screen size is 110” but with sliding the projector forward I can take the image as small as 70” if I wanted and again more than double the lumens of the 110”. I don’t normally need to go that small 85-90” is a great bump and is still as big as the largest practical flat panel TV sets and looks as good if not better than they do off my .5 gain neutral gray screen.

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post #7 of 16 Old 02-22-2020, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
What do you mean daylight leaks? How much light? A picture or a general example from the internet would be nice.

If you saw the pictures with the HT3050 and the Cinegrey 3D than it should be clear that watching any image that is darker with shadows is not possible with ambient light, regardless of projector/screen.

The other issue is the hotspot. In this budget this is the kind of hotspot you can expect. There are also sparkles in the middle of the screen in bright images. And all of these artifacts are with a 1.5x throw. Calculate your throw: https://www.projectorcentral.com/Ben...ulator-pro.htm
I don't know if the visual artifacts are acceptable.

The Cinegrey 3D and ST HC Grey have similar light rejecting properties from the side. This increases the effect of the hotspot and other artifacts.
A fabric that has less side rejecting properties is the XY Black Crystal with 0.8 gain. This will reduce the visual artifacts, but they will still be there. Of course if it has less side rejecting properties it will be more washed out by side light.
This is the XY BC 0.8 screen with a 1.4x throw:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...l#post58660710

Keystone should not be used if possible. Not only does it degrade the image, but angular ALR's are like a mirror. The beam from the projector will reflect in the screen at the same angle, but upwards. In your case it would probably overshoot the viewer's position.

You say that you prefer size over brightness, but IMO with the 2050a and an 135" 0.67 to 0.8 screen and ambient light it will be too dim.

The ST HC G:
https://www.amazon.com/STR-169100-HC...01N8PKC7J?th=1

Samples for the Silver Ticket: https://www.silverticketproducts.com...terial-samples
For XY BC 0.8 sample contact XY. An 135" might exceed the budget.

So, to summarize:
The screen is too large and too dim with this projector and ambient light.
The projector being on the table and with keystone will overshoot the viewers eyes, which can cause additional visual artifacts and dim the image further.
If the projected image is dark (or has dark parts) then the setup is unusable with ambient light.
Due to the HT2050a's limited throw ratio there will 100% be a hotspot and sparkles.

One way to fix this is to get a brighter projector that has lens shift and can be placed further back, like the Epson HC3100/3700, or HC3800 for 4K. Or a 5040UB refurbished, or 5050UB new. Recommended throw ratio is 1.9x or higher.

Epson refurbs cannot be returned unless faulty: https://epson.com/Clearance-Center/H...inment/c/cc301


All of that being said the picture will still be washed out to a degree, especially the dark parts.
Projectors are not TV's and in general should not be used in ambient light.
Tried Epson projectors, absolutely terrible sharpness and motion IMO. Returned immediately after purchasing the 2050a. Couldn’t be happier with the PQ in ideal situations. Can’t get 4K projectors until lag is reduced. Surpassingly happy with 1080p compared to my 4K TV.

Keystoning doesn’t bother me as others state, so I’m leaving that as is. May not be able to get an ALR due to the offset, forgot about the angle. I’m thinking of getting the SilverTicket, either High Contrast or grey. Don’t need perfect daytime performance, just need usability. Nighttime I’m totally satisfied already.

Thanks.
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post #8 of 16 Old 02-22-2020, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bboucher790 View Post
Tried Epson projectors, absolutely terrible sharpness and motion IMO. Returned immediately after purchasing the 2050a. Couldn’t be happier with the PQ in ideal situations. Can’t get 4K projectors until lag is reduced. Surpassingly happy with 1080p compared to my 4K TV.

Keystoning doesn’t bother me as others state, so I’m leaving that as is. May not be able to get an ALR due to the offset, forgot about the angle. I’m thinking of getting the SilverTicket, either High Contrast or grey. Don’t need perfect daytime performance, just need usability. Nighttime I’m totally satisfied already.

Thanks.
You're putting yourself out of options.
Maybe a 5040UB, should have better sharpness.

How about Sony 1080p HW series? They have lens shift and longer throw ratio.

High contrast from ST is an angular ALR.
Matte grey from ST is 0.59 gain. 135" screen with 0.59 gain and ambient light with the HT2050a is going to be too dim IMO. Matte grey from Elite is also ~0.5. Maybe get samples first.

If there is space for painting a white screen can be painted which would give a grey screen at a gain closer to 1.0, with some ALR properties.
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If you can't add shades or curtains to the room why not just hang a blanket over the existing curtains? Might even make your room sound better.
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If you can't add shades or curtains to the room why not just hang a blanket over the existing curtains? Might even make your room sound better.
It’s a huge room with a giant sliding door windowed opening about 25 ft from the viewing area. Plus a bunch of large windows. Again, not really interested in fixing the room at this point, just looking for the best screen to handle the current situation. I’m moving in two years and will be able to accommodate everything perfectly at that point. For now, I just need “better” daytime viewing with a screen designed for that. Based on my previous research, a good grey or high contrast SilverTicket should suffice. Wanted to come in here before pulling the trigger. Get some informed opinions or others with similar needs.
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You're putting yourself out of options.
Maybe a 5040UB, should have better sharpness.

How about Sony 1080p HW series? They have lens shift and longer throw ratio.

High contrast from ST is an angular ALR.
Matte grey from ST is 0.59 gain. 135" screen with 0.59 gain and ambient light with the HT2050a is going to be too dim IMO. Matte grey from Elite is also ~0.5. Maybe get samples first.

If there is space for painting a white screen can be painted which would give a grey screen at a gain closer to 1.0, with some ALR properties.
I game. I need 16ms response. None of the 4K projectors meet my needs. I also would never buy LCD tech due to motion handling.

Loving the 2050a for the price. Need better daytime viewing, but it doesn’t need to be perfect.

Last edited by bboucher790; 02-22-2020 at 04:12 PM.
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post #12 of 16 Old 02-22-2020, 03:55 PM
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I game. I need 16ms response. None of the 4K projectors meet my needs. I also would never buy LCD tech due to motion handling.

I also have my projector and I love it. Need better daytime viewing, but it doesn’t need to be perfect.
The Sony's are LCOS and are sharp, bright, and have good motion. Lag is ~22ms.

However, it sounds like there is a lot of ambient light in the room, which makes any setup unwatchable unless it's something that the picture quality does not matter (and bright), like daytime TV or sports.

You can get some samples and see exactly what it'll look like.
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post #13 of 16 Old 02-25-2020, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
The Sony's are LCOS and are sharp, bright, and have good motion. Lag is ~22ms.

However, it sounds like there is a lot of ambient light in the room, which makes any setup unwatchable unless it's something that the picture quality does not matter (and bright), like daytime TV or sports.

You can get some samples and see exactly what it'll look like.
Not really looking to sell or replace my projector. Nor would I want to spend that type of money on a 1080p projector (as good as Sony’s are, that’s steep for outdated tech). I’d jump to a TK800M if that were the case. Just looking for better daytime viewing, which ALR screens are designed to provide.
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post #14 of 16 Old 02-25-2020, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bboucher790 View Post
Not really looking to sell or replace my projector. Nor would I want to spend that type of money on a 1080p projector (as good as Sony’s are, that’s steep for outdated tech). I’d jump to a TK800M if that were the case. Just looking for better daytime viewing, which ALR screens are designed to provide.
Used Sony HW40 is relatively cheap.

I've mentioned several times, ALR screens are not magic, they have limited capacity to deal with ambient light, and that is only for bright parts of the image.
It depends on how much ambient light there is in the room. Plenty of examples out there on how they behave.
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post #15 of 16 Old 02-27-2020, 10:09 AM
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I’ve been running my HT2050 (not the “A” revision) with a 106” ST High Contrast grey since May or June of 2019 and I love it. That said, it is not a living room setup. It’s a spare room on the side of the house which has a window with blinds, but no curtains. The window is shaded by trees and rarely gets direct sunlight. For daytime watching, even with minimal light from the window, it still washes out the picture on the side of the screen closest to the window. It is not unwatchable, but know to manage your expectations. My walls are also painted a very dark grey. 95% of my viewing time is evening/night, so lack of curtains is not an issue for me.

I’d recommend at the very least some type of window treatment if you’re using this as a primary display for daytime viewing. Where the ST HC screen excels for me is gaming with some overhead lights on. I have a surface mount LED light fixture above my seating position, and with it dimmed to my liking, the screen is not washed out.

Due to the nature of the shorter throw with the HT2050, I do notice some sparkling but usually only on light backgrounds like a light blue sky or similar. No hotspotting that I can tell, and the image brightness uniformity seems normal to me.

I would skip the idea of the regular ST grey material. I’ve owned it before and it did not fare well with any light in the room. It did ok for a dark room that was somewhat treated (dark walls and carpet) but not quite a batcave.

Hope this helps.
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post #16 of 16 Old 02-28-2020, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I’ve been running my HT2050 (not the “A” revision) with a 106” ST High Contrast grey since May or June of 2019 and I love it. That said, it is not a living room setup. It’s a spare room on the side of the house which has a window with blinds, but no curtains. The window is shaded by trees and rarely gets direct sunlight. For daytime watching, even with minimal light from the window, it still washes out the picture on the side of the screen closest to the window. It is not unwatchable, but know to manage your expectations. My walls are also painted a very dark grey. 95% of my viewing time is evening/night, so lack of curtains is not an issue for me.

I’d recommend at the very least some type of window treatment if you’re using this as a primary display for daytime viewing. Where the ST HC screen excels for me is gaming with some overhead lights on. I have a surface mount LED light fixture above my seating position, and with it dimmed to my liking, the screen is not washed out.

Due to the nature of the shorter throw with the HT2050, I do notice some sparkling but usually only on light backgrounds like a light blue sky or similar. No hotspotting that I can tell, and the image brightness uniformity seems normal to me.

I would skip the idea of the regular ST grey material. I’ve owned it before and it did not fare well with any light in the room. It did ok for a dark room that was somewhat treated (dark walls and carpet) but not quite a batcave.

Hope this helps.
Thanks for the info. Again, it’s barely watchable with the side window daylights with no screen. I fully expect there to be some washout, as long as it’s decent. In two years I can transfer this to a dedicated, light controlled room. This is a only a bridge setup.

I’m probably going to pull the trigger on the Aeon series and see how it fares. Can’t be worse then a wall and that seems to be the universal opinion for this price range.

Last edited by bboucher790; 02-28-2020 at 12:29 PM.
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