What cheap old or new 3D projector? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 9 Old 02-23-2020, 02:33 AM - Thread Starter
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What cheap old or new 3D projector?

While I am perfectly happy with my current 2D projector it is so old it does not do 3D.

Is it worth getting a second projector just for 3D?
What good 3D material is there to watch?
And what cheap 2nd hand or new 3D projector would posters recommend?

Screen is 16x9 130" diagonal so 50.2 sq ft.
Screen is white painted wall, would guess screen gain is < 1.
Room is 14ft long, so projector throw 14ft - projector - space needed for any rear projector air vents.
Room is bat cave, black floor, walls, ceiling. With some film posters on the rear wall.
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post #2 of 9 Old 02-23-2020, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dovercat View Post
While I am perfectly happy with my current 2D projector it is so old it does not do 3D.

Is it worth getting a second projector just for 3D?
What good 3D material is there to watch?
And what cheap 2nd hand or new 3D projector would posters recommend?

Screen is 16x9 130" diagonal so 50.2 sq ft.
Screen is white painted wall, would guess screen gain is < 1.
Room is 14ft long, so projector throw 14ft - projector - space needed for any rear projector air vents.
Room is bat cave, black floor, walls, ceiling. With some film posters on the rear wall.
There are a lot of 3D Blu rays out there.

3LCD projectors on 3D are susceptible to ghosting, on some units it happens, on others not. DLP would be the best. The issue is DLP are not that bright to use on an 130" screen in 3D. Some that are can be more expensive.
For instance the Optoma ZH403.
Or Benq TK800/800M, TK850, Optoma UHD51ALV / 52ALV.

3LCD options: HC3100 or HC3700.
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post #3 of 9 Old 02-23-2020, 08:34 AM
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Everyone is different about 3D I watch it on my Cheap Viewsonic and it works great but my .5 gain DIY screen wall is a little too dark. I can make up for it by sliding my projector forward and cutting my screen size from 110” to 80” and that is what I have been doing. For a while I was thinking about a cheap 110” white screen 1.0-1.3 gain just for 3D and for having the option for some added brightness for sports etc. with lights on. I never tried it though.

For me I got tired of the glasses and 3D pretty fast. Others love it and can’t get enough. I have maybe 15 BDs about half kids movies. for me good cinematography and a bright clear contrast image make me feel I’m 3D.

It is cool and some of the best 3D is YouTube stuff I have found. Some regular BD when I play them in mode where the player converts them look pretty good also. I was really late coming to 3D AVS had already pronounced it dead when I bought my first glasses. For 6 months they got used a lot and I don’t think I have had them out in 6 months now.

I wouldn’t personally buy a projector just for 3D but if I was buying something new I would like it if it was included. You should be able to pick up a used DLP 1080p projector for 200 bucks and try out some 3D.

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post #4 of 9 Old 02-23-2020, 01:44 PM
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3d+Atmos is an awesome av experience. There are several movies that were shot natively in 3d like transformers and prometheus, and tons of movies that have excellent post conversion. You can definitely try older budget 1080p 3d dlp and sony projectors for a couple hundred bucks each before really getting into it.

First and foremost you need oodles of light for a good 3d image. Normal sdr viewing for projection is around 16fl in a dark room. For 3d I found anything under 50fl to be too dim. Was using a w1070 on a 92" 1.0gain screen. For 130" screen you're definitely going to need something bright. DLP performs well due to the pixel response(0.01ms vs 5ms+ for lcd/lcos). But that doesnt mean a sony will look bad. RGB LED DLP will have the best motion/crosstalk performance but they're dim for 3d, though I wonder how much a Barco FL40 costs... ;]

You also don't want to sacrifice color brightness for white brightness with DLP. Alot of projector specs will say 3000-4000 lumens, but end up being 1500 lumens calibrated. So you end up needing even higher rated brightness, which means lower lamp life, higher power usage, and more heat output. The new viewsonic lasers(ls750 etc) have high light output, being laser have lower power usage and heat output. I haven't seen what wheel these use, what their color brightness is, only that d65 is around 3000 lumens(perfect!)

A used Sim2 nero/lumis 3d is probably a bit expensive. Could keep an eye out for Digital Projection E-Vision lasers, the 2lamp units also(e-vision, d-vision, i-vision, highlite cine, same need to say 3d specifically), but they consume 1kw(might need a dedicated circuit) and put out alot of heat that would need to be exhausted.

The sonys will have 100% color brightness, but are usually around 1400 lumens calibrated in high lamp, and you can take off 20% of that after a couple hundred hours on the bulb.

A 3d setup using 2 projectors can get complicated but provide a better experience as its easier to hit the required brightness.

I really like 3d but it's not something I'm able to watch due to spouses eyes don't agree with it. I've been leaning towards trying a vr headset at some point.
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post #5 of 9 Old 02-24-2020, 02:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Seems cheap and 3D do not go together at least not with a 130" 50 sqft <1 gain screen.
How about dropping screen size to 120" so about 43 sqft ?

Or picking up a cheap 120" glass bead screen claimed screen gain 2.5. Although projector location then becomes a issue.

What cheap old or new 3D projectors would posters recommend for use with a 120" screen or a 120" glass bead screen.

Or do I really need to be thinking about 100" 30sqft ?
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post #6 of 9 Old 02-24-2020, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dovercat View Post
Seems cheap and 3D do not go together at least not with a 130" 50 sqft <1 gain screen.
How about dropping screen size to 120" so about 43 sqft ?

Or picking up a cheap 120" glass bead screen claimed screen gain 2.5. Although projector location then becomes a issue.

What cheap old or new 3D projectors would posters recommend for use with a 120" screen or a 120" glass bead screen.

Or do I really need to be thinking about 100" 30sqft ?
The problem with positive gain screens, especially ones high gain ones like 2.5 gain is they require the projector to be placed further back to avoid hotspots/sparkle and other artifacts. DLPs in general don't have the kind of throw ratio necessary.
Positive gain screens are hard to find because the manufacturers claims are often not accurate.

It really depends on what cheap projector you find and what the lumen output is, AND the glasses. Some glasses let in more light than others.

I don't know why @bdht suggested 50fL when even the most dense glasses block ~50%. So if 16fL is ok, than 32fL would do fine. Wen the lamp is new that is. Lamps loose around 25% of their brightness after 500h, after which it will decrease linearly until it's rated hours which is 50% of it's original brightness.

For instance a Optoma HD142x has the following measured lumens: https://www.projectorcentral.com/opt...tor-review.htm
I no longer have an Optoma and don't remember if the preset can be changed in 3D or stuck in Cinema.

This calculator (https://webprojectorcalculator.com/) has some strange results with the 142x. It has a result of fL in 3D.

To calculate fL, just divide the square surface of the screen to the lumens value.

http://screen-size.info/
https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calcu...calculator.php
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post #7 of 9 Old 02-24-2020, 06:34 AM
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@dovercat

Like all things projection your eyes factor in and I know your room is light controlled so with 3D you only need to get acceptable lumens for your eyes in your setting. I have watched movies 2D movies in the past as low as 5FL in a perfect setting it is not plasma like for sure but is a bit CRT like.

I have the viewsonic Pro7827hd and a max screen size of 110” 16:9 and it is about .5 gain neutral gray. 3D works on that but it is lacking brightness. As mentioned above 3D looks best when it has that glossy polished brightness rather than that film-like look some of us enjoy in 2D. I think that’s why the 50FL was recommended. But I also agree 30FL would be fine. I feel with my setup a 1.0 white screen would be good for 3D between 100-110” and if I zoom down to 80” on my .5 gray it is ok as well. Something like a 1.3 gain would work great for 110” and I wouldn’t worry about the short DLP throw length and hot spotting.

It has been a while but if I remember correct my projector limits what settings I can run in when feeding it a 3D source it defaults to full brightness and limits my selection of mode. I don’t know if all projectors do that or not and it would be something to check out. I still have my Viewsonic PJD5555w and have thought about powering it up and trying 3D to see but never have.

Bud
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post #8 of 9 Old 02-24-2020, 08:55 AM
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@dovercat
Once you find a cheap projector you can ask in the thread for that type of projector if the preset can be changed while in 3D.
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post #9 of 9 Old 02-24-2020, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
I don't know why @bdht suggested 50fL when even the most dense glasses block ~50%. So if 16fL is ok, than 32fL would do fine. Wen the lamp is new that is.
Hmm, if Im remembering right, with the w1070, 3d/high lamp, was about 1200 lumens on a 92" 1-1.1 gain screen for around 50fl. I dont remember if that figure is with brilliant color on or off though, I think off, I think BC bumped it up to 1600. And even that I couldve used more light, now that entirely couldve been the glasses really cutting alot of light. But when I went to the 0.7-0.8 gain screen it was too dim. Just observation though. Polar opposite of my experience with the led projectors being too bright lol Oh ya guys using 7fl now...

But that doesnt mean immediately buy a $2000 projector or a dci projector, definitely start with something under 300 and see if you enjoy 3d. Use a smaller size image and sit closer to test brightness. And then if you like 3d look for a nicer projector to fill up that 130" screen.

Are those smpte minimums for passive 3d for the one eye thats getting the polarized light? With active 144hz 3d and frame packing, say with the 50fl, is that 25fl per eye and then the glasses cut an additional 30%? That would be around 17fl
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