VAVA 4K Ultra Short Throw Laser Projector Review - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 152 Old 03-03-2020, 04:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by monakh View Post
There are videos on YouTube demonstrating the difference in brightness. It's not discernable to me, though the PQ quality may vary based on tweaking. We still don't have great settings for the Xiaomi 4K.

I will maintain that it's better to invest in a cheaper PJ and a good ALR screen. In the end, though, it's your money and you're the best judge of how it needs to be spent.

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Oh, yes, absolutely. If there is a hard limit on the budget, the screen really is a key component to making this work in a living room. With UST it does come down to the question of whether you want both the screen and extra brightness if you spend extra on the VAVBA. Speaking of brightness, I'm more interested in what a meter shows than what a YouTube video shows, but I don't have the answer regarding lumen output of the two projectors.

And as an elaboration on that point, if you do create a custom, calibrated, movies centric picture profile that is going to knock down the lumen output. Per the projectorreviews.com review, you wind up with 1100 calibrated lumens, which is good. I'm curious how many lumens you'd wind up with on the Xiaomi if it was similarly calibrated.

Anyhow, if the increase in brightness VAVA vs. Xiaomi is real, then it has genuine value.

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post #32 of 152 Old 03-03-2020, 04:21 AM
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All Chinese manufacturers are likely being disingenuous about true ANSI lumens, with some going to the ridiculous extent of talking about "source" lumens.

I'll try to measure mine with an app which is fairly accurate if used on a high end phone. To me the real dealmaker here is daylight visibility. I have tons of ambient light from the desert Middle Eastern sun. In ten plus years of using LED and bulb-based PJs, I have never been able to achieve the WAF of comfortable daylight viewing. No more complaints on that end thanks to the ALR screen. That's the clincher for me. It's almost too bright in complete darkness.

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post #33 of 152 Old 03-03-2020, 04:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by monakh View Post
All Chinese manufacturers are likely being disingenuous about true ANSI lumens, with some going to the ridiculous extent of talking about "source" lumens.

I'll try to measure mine with an app which is fairly accurate if used on a high end phone. To me the real dealmaker here is daylight visibility. I have tons of ambient light from the desert Middle Eastern sun. In ten plus years of using LED and bulb-based PJs, I have never been able to achieve the WAF of comfortable daylight viewing. No more complaints on that end thanks to the ALR screen. That's the clincher for me. It's almost too bright in complete darkness.

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I'm a fan of measurements and protectorreviews came up with 1827 lumens in Standard mode with lamp high. It also noted the 1000-1100 lumen post-calibration output of the VAVA is very good and in line with what you often wind up with from projectors rated between 2500 and 3000 ANSI lumens. So in terms of all that, the output seems pretty good and not exaggerated vs. the competition, it would seem. Not even the $25000 Sony VZ1000ES makes achieves its rated ANSI lumen specs, except in an unwatchable vivid mode type setting.

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post #34 of 152 Old 03-03-2020, 08:35 AM
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Before I sold Xiaomi 1080p I put it side by side with VAVA to visually check the brightness and VAVA was only a hair brighter. Which to be expected afterall it's 5000 vs 6000 Chinese lumens
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post #35 of 152 Old 03-03-2020, 09:58 AM
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How much better is the LG 85A? Worth the price premium?

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post #36 of 152 Old 03-03-2020, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Absolutely true. And the key thing is that UST is a growth category, filling out different price points and applications with 4K UST Laser products from more and more brands. When I spoke to them at CES. VAVA was upfront about the fact that they are not pursuing the home theater purist with this product. It really is designed to be a living room display, and used more like a TV, which includes the pragmatic reality that just about all the content it receives will be 30 Hz or 60 Hz and not 24 Hz.

The subjective impression I wish to convey is that after watching numerous movies, there was not a single moment where I thought judder was an issue, as compared to large TVs. I'm not making the same claim as compared to high-end home theater projectors, since I have a projector right here that does a better job at it, in the form of the Sony VPL-VW295ES.

Anyhow, when it comes to subjective impressions, it's always YMMV. You get a lot of projector for your money with the VAVA but you also give some things up to hit the price point.
Excellent review Mark. With my highlight above; I would be interested to know what size image one could expect with projector placements ranging from 3' on the low side to your stated 7'. That high side number seems far away to me. I would be looking for an acceptable image size of 80" on the low end...to 110" on the high side. And since the bulk of my gaming is on PC...I do actually use my Xbox to play recreationally with my Grandson quite a bit. Minecraft, Halo, Forza and the like. Is the lag/latency really a big deal breaker for that kind of gaming? I am really interested in a UST setup for the living room. And this unit has me intrigued.
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post #37 of 152 Old 03-03-2020, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Benq HT3550 and BenQ TK850– both will target a 135” screen in just over 11 feet (11’ 1” I believe).
Thanks for the heads up.

So I roughly did the math, my w1500 is an inch from the back wall and the length of the body is 11.2 inches and is throwing a 135inch image from about 10.9 to 10.10 inches away from the screen.

The HT3550/TK850 has a length of 10.35 inches, almost a full inch shorter so that would give me an extra .85 of an inch of throw which just makes it, so awesome yeah the HT3550/TK850 will work, now to read up on the reviews of both.

Edit: My room has minimum light and I rather have the wider color and accuracy so I will be looking into getting the HT3550.

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post #38 of 152 Old 03-03-2020, 11:40 AM
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Do you need an ALR screen in a light controlled room?

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post #39 of 152 Old 03-03-2020, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post
Excellent review Mark. With my highlight above; I would be interested to know what size image one could expect with projector placements ranging from 3' on the low side to your stated 7'. That high side number seems far away to me. I would be looking for an acceptable image size of 80" on the low end...to 110" on the high side. And since the bulk of my gaming is on PC...I do actually use my Xbox to play recreationally with my Grandson quite a bit. Minecraft, Halo, Forza and the like. Is the lag/latency really a big deal breaker for that kind of gaming? I am really interested in a UST setup for the living room. And this unit has me intrigued.
That's 7 inches not feet

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post #40 of 152 Old 03-03-2020, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Excellent review Mark. With my highlight above; I would be interested to know what size image one could expect with projector placements ranging from 3' on the low side to your stated 7'. That high side number seems far away to me. I would be looking for an acceptable image size of 80" on the low end...to 110" on the high side. And since the bulk of my gaming is on PC...I do actually use my Xbox to play recreationally with my Grandson quite a bit. Minecraft, Halo, Forza and the like. Is the lag/latency really a big deal breaker for that kind of gaming? I am really interested in a UST setup for the living room. And this unit has me intrigued.
That's 7 inches not feet.

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post #41 of 152 Old 03-03-2020, 11:05 PM
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Do you need an ALR screen in a light controlled room?
Unless you want a light cannon in your room, then no, but this is a matter of subjective opinion.
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Do you need an ALR screen in a light controlled room?
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Unless you want a light cannon in your room, then no, but this is a matter of subjective opinion.
I covered that in the review. The short answer is no, you do not. The ALR screen is for rooms with ambient light. However you do need a very smooth surface to project upon. The extreme angle of UST will exaggerate any flaws or texture on the projection surface.
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post #43 of 152 Old 03-04-2020, 12:51 PM
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I covered that in the review. The short answer is no, you do not. The ALR screen is for rooms with ambient light. However you do need a very smooth surface to project upon. The extreme angle of UST will exaggerate any flaws or texture on the projection surface.
Thanks
Would a grey screen have any benefits over white in such a room?

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Thanks
Would a grey screen have any benefits over white in such a room?
No, I tried grey screen and returned it since it was just making picture dimmer, ended up with regular white for my UST

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***The VAVA 4K Laser UST projector is one of the more promising technologies I've seen on the AVS Forum in a while. It really enables folks who haven't dipped their feet into the projector world to have the option of the "big screen" experience without the hassle of mounting a projector. Sure, you still have setup issues but it's much easier than a conventional projector.

And yes...higher end projectors will provide a better HDR and 4K experience - - but coupled with an ALR screen, you have the ability to watch during the day or night without a fully "light" controlled room. Portability is a great benefit as well. And, I would think the small size relative to a LCD or OLED TV will enable rapid technology improvements AND drive the price down. Let's see what one year brings us in terms of price & benefit enhancements.
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post #46 of 152 Old 03-05-2020, 11:18 AM
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Why are these all white?

I don't get it. Cameras are black to reduce and or eliminate stray light to improve the fidelity of the recorded image , yet I've noticed most of these short throw projectors are made of white plastic and sit pretty much directly under the screen. Talk about distracting. If I were to buy one of these I would definitely put a black towel or cover it with something dark to reduce and or to eliminate the light reflecting surfaces.

Moving forward, all of these should be made of black surfaces.

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post #47 of 152 Old 03-05-2020, 01:05 PM
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I don't get it. Cameras are black to reduce and or eliminate stray light to improve the fidelity of the recorded image , yet I've noticed most of these short throw projectors are made of white plastic and sit pretty much directly under the screen. Talk about distracting. If I were to buy one of these I would definitely put a black towel or cover it with something dark to reduce and or to eliminate the light reflecting surfaces.

Moving forward, all of these should be made of black surfaces.
I had white UST for a year it's not distracting at all. What was distracting is the front projector beam with dust particles in your line of sight.

Also you do not want to cover any projector with any cloth as it will impact cooling. Best to simply wrap it with vinyl

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post #48 of 152 Old 03-05-2020, 01:13 PM
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I had white UST for a year it's not distracting at all. What was distracting is the front projector beam with dust particles in your line of sight.

Also you do not want to cover any projector with any cloth as it will impact cooling. Best to simply wrap it with vinyl
Of course I wouldn't place the towel over an area that needs ventilation, however I do like the idea of it being covered in vinyl.

I'm sure you're used to your UST being white and not distracting...maybe I'm picky, but that would bother me (at least till it was covered with something black and non reflective.) Even my black center speaker's shinny surface reflects light from my plasma display, though it only bothers me if I sit a higher position, not when I'm sitting back.

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post #49 of 152 Old 03-05-2020, 07:26 PM
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Gotcha. In that case, your comment is good feedback for VAVA.
Coming back to the 24Hz question, I'm presuming that they are using the DLP470TE or DLP471TE. Don't they do native 24Hz? It's very surprising to me that they'd not support it on this projector, which for me is a deal breaker.
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post #50 of 152 Old 03-06-2020, 06:46 AM
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You mention that you expect the projector to be installed in living rooms, which is what you've done. You also keep alluding to it being better than a TV, however, you didn't mention which screen you're using it with. How are you achieving a "TV"-like picture? A little more information and pictures would be really helpful here.

There's nothing inherently special about a UST projector and many PJ's are capable of even higher ANSI lumen output. The only thing different about UST would be if you use it with a UST PET screen, but that wasn't mentioned in the review. So again, how are you achieving this TV-like picture?

Lastly, you mention the cost of the projector and how it's a relative bargain today, but a specialized screen can cost as much as the projector and (depending on your answers to the above), should be factored in.

Looking forward to your responses. I'm looking to "upgrade" my system and am really undecided which way to go. Seriously considered UST + PET, but that's not exactly cheap enough for just "experimentation" purposes. I also always get stumped with how to fit both the PJ and the center channel. How did that phantom center work out for you?

Thanks!

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post #51 of 152 Old 03-06-2020, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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You mention that you expect the projector to be installed in living rooms, which is what you've done. You also keep alluding to it being better than a TV, however, you didn't mention which screen you're using it with. How are you achieving a "TV"-like picture? A little more information and pictures would be really helpful here.

There's nothing inherently special about a UST projector and many PJ's are capable of even higher ANSI lumen output. The only thing different about UST would be if you use it with a UST PET screen, but that wasn't mentioned in the review. So again, how are you achieving this TV-like picture?

Lastly, you mention the cost of the projector and how it's a relative bargain today, but a specialized screen can cost as much as the projector and (depending on your answers to the above), should be factored in.

Looking forward to your responses. I'm looking to "upgrade" my system and am really undecided which way to go. Seriously considered UST + PET, but that's not exactly cheap enough for just "experimentation" purposes. I also always get stumped with how to fit both the PJ and the center channel. How did that phantom center work out for you?

Thanks!
It's better than a TV in the sense that a larger picture is very satisfying, in my personal opinion.

You are right, nothing special. I have a long throw projector in my living room, too.

You should use a UST-compatible PET screen with a projector like this in a living room. ideally, yes. And sure, they are costly. I did borrow one from Screen Innovations so I know how it performs in my living room... it's nice and bright.

But since you asked, for my dual-projector system (UST and long-throw) I use Screen Excellence Ambient-Visionaire Grey 0.8, which is billed as being compatible with UST and long-throw. Seems to work, one screen, two projectors. With UST and daylight, it offers the contrast boost needed to be able to watch it, but I would not say it's "TV like" due to the elevated black levels. You definitely need to close some shades during a sunny day to get a TV-like look out of it, but regular indoor lighting at night is fine.

Does this setup I have NEED to be UST? Not really, I could stack two projectors and run two long HDMI cables. But one of the TV-like qualities of UST is no shadows from people crossing in front of the light path. That's a big one!

Anyhow, it's a relative bargain compared to what you could get just a couple years back for a UST laser. Also I think this category is heating up, so I hope competition delivers the refinements and price point people seek.
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post #52 of 152 Old 03-06-2020, 07:16 AM
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It's better that a TV in the sense that a larger picture is very satisfying, in my personal opinion.

You are right, nothing special. I have a long throw projector in my living room, too.

You should use a UST-compatible PET screen with a projector like this in a living room. ideally, yes. And sure, they are costly. I did borrow one from Screen Innovations so I know how it performs in my living room... it's nice and bright.

But since you asked, for my dual-projector system (UST and long-thros) I use Screen Excellence Ambient-Visionaire Grey 0.8, which is billed as being compatible with UST and long-throw. Seems to work, one screen, two projectors. With UST and daylight, it offers the contrast boost needed to be able to watch it, but I would not say it's "TV like" due to the elevated black levels. You definitely need to close some shades during a sunny day to get a TV-like look out of it, but regular indoor lighting at night is fine.

Does this setup I have NEED to be UST? Not really, I could stack two projectors and run two long HDMI cables. But one of the TV-like qualities of UST is no shadows from people crossing in front of the light path. That's a big one!

Anyhow, it's a relative bargain compared to what you could get just a couple years back for a UST laser. Also I think this category is heating up, so I hope competition delivers the refinements and price point people seek.
Mark,

Thank you for the response, that helps. My current PJ is short-throw BenQ, so no shadow's anyway. What about your thoughts on center channel placement with UST? That's a challenge I can't rectify.

By the way, do you have pictures of your setup (curious about PJ placement relative to image) and how the image looks?

Thanks again!!
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post #53 of 152 Old 03-06-2020, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Mark,

Thank you for the response, that helps. My current PJ is short-throw BenQ, so no shadow's anyway. What about your thoughts on center channel placement with UST? That's a challenge I can't rectify.

By the way, do you have pictures of your setup (curious about PJ placement relative to image) and how the image looks?

Thanks again!!
The center channel either has to go under the projector, or in front of it. There may be no truly good solution, from our home theater perspective.

This is what it looks like in my living room right now. Cat is blocking the light bottom right.



I have not moved the screen to optiomize it for the projector, relative to that credenza. But I don't care because when I watch a movie I use the Sony 295ES, lights out. That's the better home theater experience, but obviously also the more expensive projector, despite being long-throw and bulb-based.

Screen Saver Image, daytime...




Here is one of the three shadeless windows in my white-walled living room. It's an overcast but fairly bright day.

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post #54 of 152 Old 03-06-2020, 07:49 AM
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The center channel either has to go under the projector, or in front of it. There may be no truly good solution, from our home theater perspective.

This is what it looks like in my living room right now. Cat is blocking the light bottom right.



I have not moved the screen to optiomize it for the projector, relative to that credenza. But I don't care because when I watch a movie I use the Sony 295ES, lights out. That's the better home theater experience, but obviously also the more expensive projector, despite being long-throw and bulb-based.
***Mark - if you can picture this - - what about a shelf that is over the VAVA 4K but has a "cut-out" for the laser to shine through while placing a center channel on that top shelf, close to the wall? I've seen some Xiaomi threads where this has worked with a "wire like" rack or even a custom rack that someone built. I think the screen would have to be higher than what you have with your setup and I'm not sure how much clearance you can get, height wise, for a center channel. But it would be far more optimal with a center channel closer to ear level than at your feet.

P.S. - nice kitty. If it's in the winter time, I'd think a cat would like the heat from the projector.

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SONY 75X900F & 49X900E, Denon X6700H & Emotiva XPA-3, OPPO 103 - 9.1.4 Setup - Speakers - Studio 60's-V.5 (FL/FR), CC-690-V.5 (C), ADP 590-V.5 (SS), MilleniaOne 2.0 (BS) - Velodyne 810 Sub, Cornered Audio (FH/RH), Definitive Technology (Front Wides). Stereo 2 Channel Only - Dali Evidence 470 & MartinLogan Forte Amplifier/Streamer with ARC.

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post #55 of 152 Old 03-06-2020, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
***Mark - if you can picture this - - what about a shelf that is over the VAVA 4K but has a "cut-out" for the laser to shine through while placing a center channel one that top shelf, close to the wall? I've seen some Xiaomi threads where this has worked with a "wire like" rack or even a custom rack that someone built. I think the screen would have to be higher than what you have with your setup and I'm not sure how much clearance you can get, height wise, for a center channel. But it would be far more optimal with a center channel closer to ear level than at your feet.
It could work with something very low profile (some sort of on wall architectural speaker) but a regular center channel casts a shadow, I can't squeeze it in there, I just tried with a bookshelf speaker.

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post #56 of 152 Old 03-06-2020, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
It could work with something very low profile (some sort of on wall architectural speaker) but a regular center channel casts a shadow, I can't squeeze it in there, I just tried with a bookshelf speaker.
***Maybe something like this - - either on wall or on a stand (block of wood or other material just behind the projector) that elevates the center speaker to clear the VAVA 4K projector. I'm not advocating this specific speaker - - only a potential solution for a closer to "ear level" experience. I've had a center channel really low before and didn't like the acoustics. One of the major drawbacks, IMHO, with this superlative projector.
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Home Theater Setup
SONY 75X900F & 49X900E, Denon X6700H & Emotiva XPA-3, OPPO 103 - 9.1.4 Setup - Speakers - Studio 60's-V.5 (FL/FR), CC-690-V.5 (C), ADP 590-V.5 (SS), MilleniaOne 2.0 (BS) - Velodyne 810 Sub, Cornered Audio (FH/RH), Definitive Technology (Front Wides). Stereo 2 Channel Only - Dali Evidence 470 & MartinLogan Forte Amplifier/Streamer with ARC.
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post #57 of 152 Old 03-06-2020, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
***Maybe something like this - - either on wall or on a stand (block of wood or other material just behind the projector) that elevates the center speaker to clear the VAVA 4K projector. I'm not advocating this specific speaker - - only a potential solution for a closer to "ear level" experience. I've had a center channel really low before and didn't like the acoustics. One of the major drawbacks, IMHO, with this superlative projector.
Yeah something like that should work. Anything less than (roughly) 5" or 6" deep has a chance.

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post #58 of 152 Old 03-06-2020, 11:34 AM
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Can this be ceiling mounted?

Projector: BenQ w1500 + ES Sable 135" 16:9 Screen AVR: Marantz SR6011 ATMOS/DTSX + Pyle 2ch Amp + Darbee 5000s + miniDSP 2x4HD (for Subs) Speakers: Polk Audio TSX550t (FL/FR), CS2 Series II (C), FXiA6 (SL/SR), Monitor40 Series II (RL/RR), TSx110B (Ceiling FL/FR RL/RR) LFE: (2) Dayton 15" Subs + (2) ButtKicker LFE Arrangement: 7.1.4 Source: OPPO UDP-203 4k Bluray Player, HTPC, nVidia Shield TV Pro, Hauppauge OTA DVR
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post #59 of 152 Old 03-06-2020, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Can this be ceiling mounted?
Sure, you can flip the image in options. There are holes in the bottom for a bracket.
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post #60 of 152 Old 03-06-2020, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
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Can this be ceiling mounted?
If you ceiling mount and pair with a UST screen you will lose all the benefits of having a UST screen with regards to light rejection.
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