Optoma Announces Three New Projectors: GT1090HDR, HZ39HDR & HD28HDR - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 88 Old 03-14-2020, 09:54 AM
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Optoma ZH406 Laser Projector

The Optoma ZH406 has arrived. I'll be discussing it in the projector shootout thread here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post59369482




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post #62 of 88 Old 03-22-2020, 09:59 PM
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Starting at 06:32 Chris Majestic intros the GT1090HDR:

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I've had the HZ39HDR for 3 days now. The projector is super bright. Presentation mode is perfectly usable at 110" under plenty of ambient light with all the windows opened (which is what I wanted) although the colors aren't the greatest. I think because it is a RGBY wheel, pumping up the BrilliantColor really gives the picture a yellow tint. Whereas on the HD27HDR which has a RGBYWC wheel, the BrilliantColor only boosts the white.


In sRGB mode where BrilliantColor is off by default the colors looks absolutely great out of the box. Even at 50% power (you can step down from 100% to 50% in steps of 5%), I am getting significantly raised blacks on a 140" screen in a dark room so I'll have to get a ND filter. I was hoping the laser would allow the flexibility to darken the image enough to go from super bright presentation mode in the daylight to home theatre at night. Would ideally need a much bigger screen for this in a dark room. 110" to 140" is going from the minimum to maximum zoom at my throw distance. Hopefully I can find a good ND filter I can pop that on when I want to watch a film in ideal dark conditions.



I tried forcing the projector to accept a 1080p 120Hz signal and wasn't having any luck. 120 Hz was working in low resolution modes though. Will have to wait for the gaming firmware update to get 120Hz and Enhanced Gaming Mode. Once that is out I will consider this a great upgrade over the HD27HDR. Uniformity seems a lot better and on my HD27HDR I was having image stability issues.



HDR has the same limitations and washed out colors out of the box that the HD27HDR has so I think I'm just going to ignore it and run the projector in SDR.
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post #64 of 88 Old 03-27-2020, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senjeys View Post
I've had the HZ39HDR for 3 days now. The projector is super bright. Presentation mode is perfectly usable at 110" under plenty of ambient light with all the windows opened (which is what I wanted) although the colors aren't the greatest. I think because it is a RGBY wheel, pumping up the BrilliantColor really gives the picture a yellow tint. Whereas on the HD27HDR which has a RGBYWC wheel, the BrilliantColor only boosts the white.


In sRGB mode where BrilliantColor is off by default the colors looks absolutely great out of the box. Even at 50% power (you can step down from 100% to 50% in steps of 5%), I am getting significantly raised blacks on a 140" screen in a dark room so I'll have to get a ND filter. I was hoping the laser would allow the flexibility to darken the image enough to go from super bright presentation mode in the daylight to home theatre at night. Would ideally need a much bigger screen for this in a dark room. 110" to 140" is going from the minimum to maximum zoom at my throw distance. Hopefully I can find a good ND filter I can pop that on when I want to watch a film in ideal dark conditions.



I tried forcing the projector to accept a 1080p 120Hz signal and wasn't having any luck. 120 Hz was working in low resolution modes though. Will have to wait for the gaming firmware update to get 120Hz and Enhanced Gaming Mode. Once that is out I will consider this a great upgrade over the HD27HDR. Uniformity seems a lot better and on my HD27HDR I was having image stability issues.



HDR has the same limitations and washed out colors out of the box that the HD27HDR has so I think I'm just going to ignore it and run the projector in SDR.
I love posts like this. It completely kills the upgrade but I have and keeps me satisfied with my BenQ2050.
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post #65 of 88 Old 03-27-2020, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senjeys View Post
I've had the HZ39HDR for 3 days now. The projector is super bright. Presentation mode is perfectly usable at 110" under plenty of ambient light with all the windows opened (which is what I wanted) although the colors aren't the greatest. I think because it is a RGBY wheel, pumping up the BrilliantColor really gives the picture a yellow tint. Whereas on the HD27HDR which has a RGBYWC wheel, the BrilliantColor only boosts the white.


In sRGB mode where BrilliantColor is off by default the colors looks absolutely great out of the box. Even at 50% power (you can step down from 100% to 50% in steps of 5%), I am getting significantly raised blacks on a 140" screen in a dark room so I'll have to get a ND filter. I was hoping the laser would allow the flexibility to darken the image enough to go from super bright presentation mode in the daylight to home theatre at night. Would ideally need a much bigger screen for this in a dark room. 110" to 140" is going from the minimum to maximum zoom at my throw distance. Hopefully I can find a good ND filter I can pop that on when I want to watch a film in ideal dark conditions.



I tried forcing the projector to accept a 1080p 120Hz signal and wasn't having any luck. 120 Hz was working in low resolution modes though. Will have to wait for the gaming firmware update to get 120Hz and Enhanced Gaming Mode. Once that is out I will consider this a great upgrade over the HD27HDR. Uniformity seems a lot better and on my HD27HDR I was having image stability issues.



HDR has the same limitations and washed out colors out of the box that the HD27HDR has so I think I'm just going to ignore it and run the projector in SDR.
Washed out colours in HDR is generally indicative of problems arising from the source device and/or intermediate devices. I had to experiment with my UB420 4K BD player to get it to give a proper HDR signal and I found that I had to reduce bit depth from 12bit to 10bit, as it will not go lower than 60hz with streaming material, and it would often default to HDR 8bit and then colours would appear washed out.

Suggested HDR settings: Gamma 2.2 or 2.4, HDR Dynamic range = Standard or Film or Detail (Film or Detail with a white screen). My UHD50 looks good with 2160p, 60hz, 10bit, 4:2:0, BT2020 and Color Gamut = Native.

I would suggest that grey screens and/or grey painted walls will generally work better with high brightness projectors.
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Last edited by DunMunro; 03-28-2020 at 12:14 AM.
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post #66 of 88 Old 03-28-2020, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
Washed out colours in HDR is generally indicative of problems arising from the source device and/or intermediate devices. I had to experiment with my UB420 4K BD player to get it to give a proper HDR signal and I found that I had to reduce bit depth from 12bit to 10bit, as it will not go lower than 60hz with streaming material, and it would often default to HDR 8bit and then colours would appear washed out.

Suggested HDR settings: Gamma 2.2 or 2.4, HDR Dynamic range = Standard or Film or Detail (Film or Detail with a white screen). My UHD50 looks good with 2160p, 60hz, 10bit, 4:2:0, BT2020 and Color Gamut = Native.

I would suggest that grey screens and/or grey painted walls will generally work better with high brightness projectors.

Oops, I forgot to specify I am actually projecting on to a painted grey wall. I'll try your suggestions. I mainly only used the HD27HDR's HDR in 1080p120 4:4:4 RGB 10-bit with the gamma set as "HDR". Both the HD27HDR and the HZ39HDR only have two modes for HDR. "HDR" mode where the gamma is forced to "HDR", and "User" mode where the gamma can be set to anything except "HDR". I'll try 2.2 and 2.4 in "User" mode as you suggested, and dropping the chroma and what not.


edit: actually the HZ39HDR does not even have a "User" mode. There is only a single mode: "HDR" with the gamma forced to "HDR" for HDR content.



So far I've been using the HZ39HDR in the 2160p60 (downscaling) 4:4:4 RGB SDR 8-bit, since it doesn't have the 1080p120 gaming mode yet. It seems to me that the downscaling looks much better than on the HD27HDR, also it seems like the input lag is less.

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post #67 of 88 Old 03-28-2020, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senjeys View Post
I've had the HZ39HDR for 3 days now. The projector is super bright. Presentation mode is perfectly usable at 110" under plenty of ambient light with all the windows opened (which is what I wanted) although the colors aren't the greatest. I think because it is a RGBY wheel, pumping up the BrilliantColor really gives the picture a yellow tint. Whereas on the HD27HDR which has a RGBYWC wheel, the BrilliantColor only boosts the white.


In sRGB mode where BrilliantColor is off by default the colors looks absolutely great out of the box. Even at 50% power (you can step down from 100% to 50% in steps of 5%), I am getting significantly raised blacks on a 140" screen in a dark room so I'll have to get a ND filter. I was hoping the laser would allow the flexibility to darken the image enough to go from super bright presentation mode in the daylight to home theatre at night. Would ideally need a much bigger screen for this in a dark room. 110" to 140" is going from the minimum to maximum zoom at my throw distance. Hopefully I can find a good ND filter I can pop that on when I want to watch a film in ideal dark conditions.



I tried forcing the projector to accept a 1080p 120Hz signal and wasn't having any luck. 120 Hz was working in low resolution modes though. Will have to wait for the gaming firmware update to get 120Hz and Enhanced Gaming Mode. Once that is out I will consider this a great upgrade over the HD27HDR. Uniformity seems a lot better and on my HD27HDR I was having image stability issues.



HDR has the same limitations and washed out colors out of the box that the HD27HDR has so I think I'm just going to ignore it and run the projector in SDR.
How are the black levels compared to HD27HDR at equivalent brightness?
Thanks
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post #68 of 88 Old 03-28-2020, 08:17 AM
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How are the black levels compared to HD27HDR at equivalent brightness?
Thanks

At the telephoto end of the zoom they cast about the same size image. I think the HZ39HDR at 50% power has worse black levels than the HD27HDR in Eco at the same size. When they are both at the wide-angle end, the HZ39HDR image is much larger, and I think the black levels are then about the same. I'll try to do a side-by-side comparison in a few days for a better answer.
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post #69 of 88 Old 03-28-2020, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senjeys View Post
Oops, I forgot to specify I am actually projecting on to a painted grey wall. I'll try your suggestions. I mainly only used the HD27HDR's HDR in 1080p120 4:4:4 RGB 10-bit with the gamma set as "HDR". Both the HD27HDR and the HZ39HDR only have two modes for HDR. "HDR" mode where the gamma is forced to "HDR", and "User" mode where the gamma can be set to anything except "HDR". I'll try 2.2 and 2.4 in "User" mode as you suggested, and dropping the chroma and what not.


So far I've been using the HZ39HDR in the 2160p60 (downscaling) 4:4:4 RGB SDR 8-bit, since it doesn't have the 1080p120 gaming mode yet. It seems to me that the downscaling looks much better than on the HD27HDR, also it seems like the input lag is less.
I've found that the output source has to be YUV (or YCbCr) to get acceptable HDR output. Input on the projector should be YUV or 'Auto'.

Your projectors should have a 'Dynamic Range' option for the HDR = Bright, Standard, Film, Details. This is going to be an important setting since Gamma is disabled (unlike the UHD50).

What is your source device(s)?
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
I've found that the output source has to be YUV (or YCbCr) to get acceptable HDR output. Input on the projector should be YUV or 'Auto'.

Your projectors should have a 'Dynamic Range' option for the HDR = Bright, Standard, Film, Details. This is going to be an important setting since Gamma is disabled (unlike the UHD50).

What is your source device(s)?

I'm using a PC with a 5700 XT. I couldn't get YCbCr working with a 4k signal whether 4:2:2 or 4:2:0. Projector was still wanting to use RGB color space even though graphics drivers were reporting YCbCr.

Going down to 1080p. Now YCbCr 4:4:4 10bpc is working. You know what you're right HDR mode actually looks better now, but still something seems a bit off. I feel like magenta and orange is oversaturated now and yellow is washed out. By default HDR mode has BC set to 10, and the colors are totally calibrated to BC 10 so you can't reduce this without starting from scratch. And only having this single HDR mode doesn't really work well for my use case. I'd like to have at least 3 modes for: broad daylight, dim light, complete darkness. I'd say this mode is best suited to dim light out of the box. The SDR mode 'sRGB' has got to be the best dark room mode by far out of the box. The code to unlock the HD27HDR ISF modes doesn't seem to work for the HZ39HDR

Last edited by senjeys; 03-28-2020 at 12:00 PM.
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post #71 of 88 Old 03-28-2020, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by senjeys View Post
I'm using a PC with a 5700 XT. I couldn't get YCbCr working with a 4k signal whether 4:2:2 or 4:2:0. Projector was still wanting to use RGB color space even though graphics drivers were reporting YCbCr.

Going down to 1080p. Now YCbCr 4:4:4 10bpc is working. You know what you're right HDR mode actually looks better now, but still something seems a bit off. I feel like magenta and orange is oversaturated now and yellow is washed out. By default HDR mode has BC set to 10, and the colors are totally calibrated to BC 10 so you can't reduce this without starting from scratch. And only having this single HDR mode doesn't really work well for my use case. I'd like to have at least 3 modes for: broad daylight, dim light, complete darkness. I'd say this mode is best suited to dim light out of the box. The SDR mode 'sRGB' has got to be the best dark room mode by far out of the box. The code to unlock the HD27HDR ISF modes doesn't seem to work for the HZ39HDR
According to the HZ39HDR manual you should have access to the HDR Dynamic range settings of Bright, Standard, Film, Detail:
"
 HDR Picture Mode / HLG Picture Mode
‡ Bright: Choose this mode for brighter more saturated colors.
‡ Standard: Choose this mode for natural looking colors with a balance of warm and cool tones.
‡ Film: Choose this mode for improved detail and image sharpness.
‡ Details: The signal comes from OETF conversion to achieve the best color matching.
"
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According to the HZ39HDR manual you should have access to the HDR Dynamic range settings of Bright, Standard, Film, Detail:
"
 HDR Picture Mode / HLG Picture Mode
‡ Bright: Choose this mode for brighter more saturated colors.
‡ Standard: Choose this mode for natural looking colors with a balance of warm and cool tones.
‡ Film: Choose this mode for improved detail and image sharpness.
‡ Details: The signal comes from OETF conversion to achieve the best color matching.
"

Those settings have a relatively minor effect. Seem to mostly just change the contrast and gamma a bit.
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Originally Posted by senjeys View Post
Those settings have a relatively minor effect. Seem to mostly just change the contrast and gamma a bit.

That's odd. On my UHD50 the effect is pretty dramatic. My guess is that output (even streaming output) from a 4K BD player like a UB420 or UBP-X700 might have fewer issues.
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Does anyone have a feel for how the black levels are on these compared to benq's HT2050? I know they aren't RGBRGB wheels, but it's also been several years since that pj hit the scene.
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Would it be worth it to upgrade to the HZ39HDR from an HD33? was looking at the HD39HDR then saw the new laser model? thanks for any info
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Would it be worth it to upgrade to the HZ39HDR from an HD33? was looking at the HD39HDR then saw the new laser model? thanks for any info
Yes.
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post #77 of 88 Old 04-29-2020, 05:42 AM
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the GT1090HDR is now showing available May 5th on Amazon.


EDIT: looks like the next day it changed back to "currently unavailable"...
EDIT2: back available but now says May 9th...

L + L = R

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My HZ39HDR arrived this past Monday on the 4th. First impressions with out of the box settings is this thing is outstanding. My previous projector was the HD33 and the brightness of the HZ is amazing, the color and saturation is beyond what I expected. I'm using a 106" grey screen and with lights on viewing there's little to no brightness or saturation loss. I have a ps4 pro hooked up to it and couldn't be happier with it, for me there's no noticeable latency at all, it's also amazing the color difference that I noticed instantly. I can't comment on the HDR at all as my receiver is older and only HD, thinking I might upgrade that next also with new 2.0 HDMI cables to get the HDR benefit.
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I just got shipping notification from Amazon that my GT1090HDR shipped, looks like I can expect it Tuesday. I have been looking for a projector to use for PC gaming that has low input lag and 120hz. I tried out a friends 1080HDR and was impressed. I have a seperate projector for more critical viewing so this one should fit the bill and I will also use it for my outdoor HT.
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More 1080p

More 1080p projectors? Meanwhile I am waiting for somebody to produce a 4k projector with better contrast for use with the soon to be available playstation five.

Thanks for posting the new models but it makes me sad manufactures still not on 4k projectors with good contrast at under 3k price.

Hopefully after a few million ps5 are sold somebody will get a clue.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by senjeys View Post
I'll have to get a ND filter.

What does ND stand for and what does it do?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Burrows View Post
More 1080p projectors? Meanwhile I am waiting for somebody to produce a 4k projector with better contrast for use with the soon to be available playstation five.

Thanks for posting the new models but it makes me sad manufactures still not on 4k projectors with good contrast at under 3k price.

Hopefully after a few million ps5 are sold somebody will get a clue.
Apparently many people might wanna play their next gen series X & PS5 @ 1080p resolutions rather than at 4K I guess

meanwhile I’m already for 8K e-shift projectors to come out at human earth prices.... I’m a man ahead of my time as far as tech goes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Burrows View Post
More 1080p projectors? Meanwhile I am waiting for somebody to produce a 4k projector with better contrast for use with the soon to be available playstation five.

Thanks for posting the new models but it makes me sad manufactures still not on 4k projectors with good contrast at under 3k price.

Hopefully after a few million ps5 are sold somebody will get a clue.
5050UB, used 4K pixel shifter JVC. 20-30ms lag. Even HT3550/5550.

Besides the projector, the room must be treated as to not hamper projector contrast.
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The HT3550 has a reported lag of high 50s to low 60s. Sorta kills it on being a valid 4K projector for gaming.

This one hurts the most, cause it's soo damn close.
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Apparently many people might wanna play their next gen series X & PS5 @ 1080p resolutions rather than at 4K I guess

meanwhile I’m already for 8K e-shift projectors to come out at human earth prices.... I’m a man ahead of my time as far as tech goes
I sit 14 feet away from a 106 inch screen, I don't think the benefits of 4K visuals will be noticeable to me. plus upgrading from the HD33, it seems like a 4K upgrade, lol
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5050UB, used 4K pixel shifter JVC. 20-30ms lag. Even HT3550/5550.

Besides the projector, the room must be treated as to not hamper projector contrast.
I meant laser or led not obsolete bulbs .

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I meant laser or led not obsolete bulbs .
Bulbs are not obsolete. It will be at least 3, maybe 5 years before any 4K comparable laser models will be available.
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Bulbs are not obsolete. It will be at least 3, maybe 5 years before any 4K comparable laser models will be available.
Nty to any bulb projector with builtin anxiety over image changes and needing to constantly monkey with adjustments due to bulb decay .

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