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post #1 of 39 Old 03-17-2020, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Benq TK850 vs Epson HC3800

I see that TK850 has a much larger input lag. Since that they are about the same price, I guess the TK850 must be able to do something better than the HC3800?
So in short, what are the pros and cons of each of the projector?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granny Lee View Post
I see that TK850 has a much larger input lag. Since that they are about the same price, I guess the TK850 must be able to something better than the HC3800?
So in short, what are the pros and cons of each of the projector?
Check out this thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...e-talk-21.html
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post #3 of 39 Old 03-17-2020, 01:06 PM
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Benq TK850 vs Epson HC3800

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granny Lee View Post
I see that TK850 has a much larger input lag. Since that they are about the same price, I guess the TK850 must be able to something better than the HC3800?

So in short, what are the pros and cons of each of the projector?


They’re both excellent projectors.

I reviewed the Tk850 here on this forum but haven’t had an opportunity to see a 3800 in action yet.

The major differences I can see:

TK850 is double the resolution. While they both use pixel shifting the BenQ DLP solution results in all 8.3 million pixels present in the source image being displayed on screen. The Epson 3800 produces a simulation of 4K utilizing 4.15 million pixels— half the resolution of the source image. I find this to be an easily noticeable difference but screen size, seating distance, content and visual acuity all matter here.

The Tk850 and similar DLps are also ‘always’ 4K projectors. Outside of when it senses 3D content the TK850 will up convert all content and display it as 4K. While this seems like a small difference it means all of the Tk850’s features work in 4K. Such as the frame interpolation feature (smoothing) which on the Epson only works when using the Epson as a 1080p projector (pixel shifting off).

Another big difference is throw and placement flexibility. The TK850 is a short throw projector while the Epson has a longer— but greater— throw range. The BenQ is designed to project a larger image in a limited amount of space (closer to the screen). You’ll often find the BenQ will need to be placed or mounted out in front or very close to the viewing are. On the flip side, the Epson offers far more placement flexibility in the form of more zoom (1.6x vs the BenQ’s 1.3x) and much more lens shift (+/-60% vertical AND +/-24% horizontal for the Epson vs just +/-10% vertical on the BenQ). It can easily be placed behind the viewing area. With the TK850, as with most every DLP, you have to be far more careful with your installation to make sure the projector is square with your screen.

In terms of lumen output, both projectors are plenty bright for the vast majority of users. But the Epson does measure a bit higher here. This should give it an advantage if you’re competing with significant levels of room lighting or if you’re pushing a truly enormous screen.

Lastly there’s gaming compatibility. The Tk850 is saddled with unusually high input lag even for a 4K DLP (around 83ms). That makes it a poor choice for a gaming display, IMO. Of course, to be fair, I wouldn’t use the Epson as my primary gaming display either if you play predominantly competitive FPS games. While the input lag is quite low (around 28ms I believe) the actual pixel response time of 3LCD is high which can result in visible blur trails behind quickly moving objects. Although this DOES seem to improve (to my eye) when utilizing the 4K pixel shift.
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post #4 of 39 Old 03-17-2020, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
They’re both excellent projectors.

I reviewed the Tk850 here on this forum but haven’t had an opportunity to see a 3800 in action yet.

The major differences I can see:

TK850 is double the resolution. While they both use pixel shifting the BenQ DLP solution results in all 8.3 million pixels present in the source image being displayed on screen. The Epson 3800 produces a simulation of 4K utilizing 4.15 million pixels— half the resolution of the source image. I find this to be an easily noticeable difference but screen size, seating distance, content and visual acuity all matter here.

The Tk850 and similar DLps are also ‘always’ 4K projectors. Outside of when it senses 3D content the TK850 will up convert all content and display it as 4K. While this seems like a small difference it means all of the Tk850’s features work in 4K. Such as the frame interpolation feature (smoothing) which on the Epson only works when using the Epson as a 1080p projector (pixel shifting off).

Another big difference is throw and placement flexibility. The TK850 is a short throw projector while the Epson has a longer— but greater— throw range. The BenQ is designed to project a larger image in a limited amount of space (closer to the screen). You’ll often find the BenQ will need to be placed or mounted out in front or very close to the viewing are. On the flip side, the Epson offers far more placement flexibility in the form of more zoom (1.6x vs the BenQ’s 1.3x) and much more lens shift (+/-60% vertical AND +/-24% horizontal for the Epson vs just +/-10% vertical on the BenQ). It can easily be placed behind the viewing area. With the TK850, as with most every DLP, you have to be far more careful with your installation to make sure the projector is square with your screen.

In terms of lumen output, both projectors are plenty bright for the vast majority of users. But the Epson does measure a bit higher here. This should give it an advantage if you’re competing with significant levels of room lighting or if you’re pushing a truly enormous screen.

Lastly there’s gaming compatibility. The Tk850 is saddled with unusually high input lag even for a 4K DLP (around 83ms). That makes it a poor choice for a gaming display, IMO. Of course, to be fair, I wouldn’t use the Epson as my primary gaming display either if you play predominantly competitive FPS games. While the input lag is quite low (around 28ms I believe) the actual pixel response time of 3LCD is high which can result in visible blur trails behind quickly moving objects. Although this DOES seem to improve (to my eye) when utilizing the 4K pixel shift.


Thank you, that's probably all information I would need, and beyond. I will get a 3800 then. I will share my experience with it once I get it.
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post #5 of 39 Old 03-17-2020, 02:31 PM
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The HC3800 also has better black level, if the environment allows it.
3D in 3LCD is susceptible to ghosting. When it does not manifest itself, the increased brightness helps a lot.
It's longer throw can work with many ALR screens which require longer placement.
It's higher brightness allows it to be run in Low lamp mode, if the room requires it or the screen is larger.

The TK850's lamp should last longer on SmartEco, if the 15000h are true. DLP's light tunnel is almost sealed with less likelihood of dust blobs. No filter cleaning since it does not have any.
TK850 is better out of the box, Epson needs some adjustments.
DLP are more reliable for long term use.
Benq switches to HDR when it receives a HDR automatically, while Epson doesn't (?).
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post #6 of 39 Old 03-17-2020, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Granny Lee View Post
Thank you, that's probably all information I would need, and beyond. I will get a 3800 then. I will share my experience with it once I get it.


Just curious: what makes the 3800 the preferred choice for you?

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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
They’re both excellent projectors.

I reviewed the Tk850 here on this forum but haven’t had an opportunity to see a 3800 in action yet.

The major differences I can see:

TK850 is double the resolution. While they both use pixel shifting the BenQ DLP solution results in all 8.3 million pixels present in the source image being displayed on screen. The Epson 3800 produces a simulation of 4K utilizing 4.15 million pixels— half the resolution of the source image. I find this to be an easily noticeable difference but screen size, seating distance, content and visual acuity all matter here.

The Tk850 and similar DLps are also ‘always’ 4K projectors. Outside of when it senses 3D content the TK850 will up convert all content and display it as 4K. While this seems like a small difference it means all of the Tk850’s features work in 4K. Such as the frame interpolation feature (smoothing) which on the Epson only works when using the Epson as a 1080p projector (pixel shifting off).

Another big difference is throw and placement flexibility. The TK850 is a short throw projector while the Epson has a longer— but greater— throw range. The BenQ is designed to project a larger image in a limited amount of space (closer to the screen). You’ll often find the BenQ will need to be placed or mounted out in front or very close to the viewing are. On the flip side, the Epson offers far more placement flexibility in the form of more zoom (1.6x vs the BenQ’s 1.3x) and much more lens shift (+/-60% vertical AND +/-24% horizontal for the Epson vs just +/-10% vertical on the BenQ). It can easily be placed behind the viewing area. With the TK850, as with most every DLP, you have to be far more careful with your installation to make sure the projector is square with your screen.

In terms of lumen output, both projectors are plenty bright for the vast majority of users. But the Epson does measure a bit higher here. This should give it an advantage if you’re competing with significant levels of room lighting or if you’re pushing a truly enormous screen.

Lastly there’s gaming compatibility. The Tk850 is saddled with unusually high input lag even for a 4K DLP (around 83ms). That makes it a poor choice for a gaming display, IMO. Of course, to be fair, I wouldn’t use the Epson as my primary gaming display either if you play predominantly competitive FPS games. While the input lag is quite low (around 28ms I believe) the actual pixel response time of 3LCD is high which can result in visible blur trails behind quickly moving objects. Although this DOES seem to improve (to my eye) when utilizing the 4K pixel shift.


So if I have a 120” screen and I am 12 feet away, will I notice the 4K trickery of the Epson?


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Just curious: what makes the 3800 the preferred choice for you?
The input lag
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Just curious: what makes the 3800 the preferred choice for you?
I made a post about the TK850 input lag a few days ago. At least on the paper, the TK850 meets every requirement of mine, except for the input lag. I'm certainly not going to play anything serious or any type of FPS game on projector, but everyone is saying that 80ms+ lag is noticeable for even casual gaming.. So I had to look for other solution. Then I noticed the 3800. It's aethetically not looking as good as the Benq, but other than that I didn't find much information about how it could be a worse projector than the tk850, so I made this post.

If I could afford a 5050ub I'd certainly get one, just saying.
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The HC3800 also has better black level, if the environment allows it.
3D in 3LCD is susceptible to ghosting. When it does not manifest itself, the increased brightness helps a lot.
It's longer throw can work with many ALR screens which require longer placement.
It's higher brightness allows it to be run in Low lamp mode, if the room requires it or the screen is larger.

The TK850's lamp should last longer on SmartEco, if the 15000h are true. DLP's light tunnel is almost sealed with less likelihood of dust blobs. No filter cleaning since it does not have any.
TK850 is better out of the box, Epson needs some adjustments.
DLP are more reliable for long term use.
Benq switches to HDR when it receives a HDR automatically, while Epson doesn't (?).
Thank you. What does it imply if the projector won't switch to HDR automatically? Is it problematic?
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Thank you. What does it imply if the projector won't switch to HDR automatically? Is it problematic?
Not 100% sure, but on the 5050UB it does not switch to HDR mode when receiving a HDR signal. Has to be done manually.

You can double check here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...vealed-21.html
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The input lag
https://www.optoma.com/us/product/uhd50x/

The Optoma UHD50X. 4K and input lag less than 26ms with 4K 60Hz sources.

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https://www.optoma.com/us/product/uhd50x/

The Optoma UHD50X. 4K and input lag less than 26ms with 4K 60Hz sources.
I don't think I can get to see the UHD50x any time soon here in Canada.
Beside that, how is uhd50x compared with the two mentioned projectors, in terms of picture quality, HDR performance, brightness, etc.? I know it's super low input lag and can support up to 240hz refreshrate, but actually I personally can't sense any input lag under 50ms (I played some games on HT3550 and I sensed no lag at all), and I do not play FPS games on projectors, I play them on 240hz esports monitors. Projector for me is really just for casual and retro gaming, so as long as the lag is not noticeable, I will be happy. What I mean by that is, the UHD50x looks awesome, but even if I can find one in my city, if its performance in input lag/refreshrate comes with a cost of price/picture quality, I will probably get the models with slightly higher input lag.
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So if I have a 120” screen and I am 12 feet away, will I notice the 4K trickery of the Epson?


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Depends on the content and how good your eyes are. plenty of people will tell you the difference is easily noticeable and plenty will tell you the difference is negligible.

Here’s the thing: they’ll both look sharper than 1080p. But I see a LOT of displays and even though I don’t think my eyes are that good (I wear corrective glasses) I think I more know what to look for now. And with TVs now moving on to 8K the arms race is on. Epson is going to have to figure out a way of providing true 4K resolution soon.

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I don't think I can get to see the UHD50x any time soon here in Canada.
Beside that, how is uhd50x compared with the two mentioned projectors, in terms of picture quality, HDR performance, brightness, etc.? I know it's super low input lag and can support up to 240hz refreshrate, but actually I personally can't sense any input lag under 50ms (I played some games on HT3550 and I sensed no lag at all), and I do not play FPS games on projectors, I play them on 240hz esports monitors. Projector for me is really just for casual and retro gaming, so as long as the lag is not noticeable, I will be happy. What I mean by that is, the UHD50x looks awesome, but even if I can find one in my city, if its performance in input lag/refreshrate comes with a cost of price/picture quality, I will probably get the models with slightly higher input lag.
I can only speculate, but since it’s a high brightness gaming pj & still uses a variation of the .47 DMD, that the UHD50x won’t be much different PQ from what’s out there now. Higher brightness at the expense of contrast and color accuracy. The major selling point is that no other 4K pixel shifter offers such low input lag and the ability to support high refresh rates.

I don’t think the 3800 is a bad choice, but I’d have to see it side by side with DLP before I could make my decision.
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Just curious: what makes the 3800 the preferred choice for you?
So, I've made the purchase. It should arrive within one week. I will share my information about this model once I get it
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So, I've made the purchase. It should arrive within one week. I will share my information about this model once I get it
So how is it? About to pick up a HC3800 myself and have been debating similar models as you.
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So, I've made the purchase. It should arrive within one week. I will share my information about this model once I get it
I would also like to hear your experience. I ordered a TK850, but after doing more research I'm considering returning it unopened, and the Epson 3800 is on my shortlist to get instead.
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I don't have the TK850 but I looked at it and went for the UHD50x instead

I also have the HC3800 in my LR

Depends on what you're going to use it for

Home Cinema use is definitely upper hand for Epson

Gaming is slightly the upper hand for Optoma


Either way I hate input lag.

Make sure to toss your old HDMI cables because even a cheap 2020 HDMI is going to outperform your monster cable from 2008 that you haven't given up on yet.
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I don't have the TK850 but I looked at it and went for the UHD50x instead

I also have the HC3800 in my LR

Depends on what you're going to use it for

Home Cinema use is definitely upper hand for Epson

Gaming is slightly the upper hand for Optoma

Either way I hate input lag.

Make sure to toss your old HDMI cables because even a cheap 2020 HDMI is going to outperform your monster cable from 2008 that you haven't given up on yet.
I found out the hard way so Im just tellin ya lol
Very interesting. Thanks for your feedback.

Presumably you got the UHD50X specifically for 4k gaming as opposed to the 3800's 2k res? In addition to high refresh rate and low lag that is. I'm just curious why get the UHD50X in addition to the 3800 if the gaming performance is close while the 3800 offers better home cinema...

I'm planning to put a projector in my living room so there will be ambient light on occasion, but the majority of my use will be TV/Movies at night. I do watch some sports which is why I was initially attracted to the TK850 (it's marketed towards living room and sports) but the more I researched and the more I thought about it, sports and daytime use make up a relatively small percentage of my screen time. And currently I stream my sports, so the feed isn't very good quality anyways, hardly worth basing my decision on. Throw in consideration for gaming and it became clear that the TK850 isn't right for me.

Now that I have re-assessed, the 3800 seems to be ticking a lot of boxes. Initially I ruled it out because of the non-4k pixel count, but that doesn't bother me as much now that I have read more reviews speaking to the good picture quality and perceived sharpness that this pj puts out, in addition to high color brightness and low lag. I'd say my only concern at this point is lack of frame interpolation/CFI and motion blur in general with 3-chip systems; and to a lesser extent the noise. I'd love to step up to the 5050UB which I believe addresses these two concerns (as I'm sure anyone looking at a 3800 would love to do) but I can't justify the cost difference for my room setup and intended use.

@Trapani can you speak to your experience with the 3800 as it relates to motion/lack of CFI and noise?


P.S. thanks for the hdmi cable tip, I've already got new certified high speed cables on order Speaking of which, how do you know if a cable is actually working up to standard or not, i.e. a 10gbps cable vs a 18gbps cable?

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Very interesting. Thanks for your feedback.

Presumably you got the UHD50X specifically for 4k gaming as opposed to the 3800's 2k res? In addition to high refresh rate and low lag that is. I'm just curious why get the UHD50X in addition to the 3800 if the gaming performance is close while the 3800 offers better home cinema...

I'm planning to put a projector in my living room so there will be ambient light on occasion, but the majority of my use will be TV/Movies at night. I do watch some sports which is why I was initially attracted to the TK850 (it's marketed towards living room and sports) but the more I researched and the more I thought about it, sports and daytime use make up a relatively small percentage of my screen time. And currently I stream my sports, so the feed isn't very good quality anyways, hardly worth basing my decision on. Throw in consideration for gaming and it became clear that the TK850 isn't right for me.

Now that I have re-assessed, the 3800 seems to be ticking a lot of boxes. Initially I ruled it out because of the non-4k pixel count, but that doesn't bother me as much now that I have read more reviews speaking to the good picture quality and perceived sharpness that this pj puts out, in addition to high color brightness and low lag. I'd say my only concern at this point is lack of frame interpolation/CFI and motion blur in general with 3-chip systems; and to a lesser extent the noise. I'd love to step up to the 5050UB which I believe addresses these two concerns (as I'm sure anyone looking at a 3800 would love to do) but I can't justify the cost difference for my room setup and intended use.

@Trapani can you speak to your experience with the 3800 as it relates to motion/lack of CFI and noise?


P.S. thanks for the hdmi cable tip, I've already got new certified high speed cables on order Speaking of which, how do you know if a cable is actually working up to standard or not, i.e. a 10gbps cable vs a 18gbps cable?
You'll feel it with a longer cable is how. Either that or it starts to refuse a signal or the lag from the length of cable starts to be felt. It's felt but not seen.

Bro you are in a pickle because both have their Strongpoints. The TK850 is (don't own it but i see it as) along the category of "movies in bright room but good color" category so maybe not your alley

The 3800 like you said is great and what you're not seeing on the pixel shift is that it is -diagonal- on the screen which doing so somehow increases perceived sharpness. I actually even went through the effort of taking a high frame rate camera to watch the epson pixel shift and it's... pretty cool.

The frame interpolation thing, Epson's site says it doesn't work with 4k enhancement on which... basically just disables their wobulation drive lens. They tell you to set the remote to "fine" which will do it anyways it seems automatically.

It seems natural because on the remote they have a button called "fine/fast" which normally I just leave mine on the "fine" mode as my PS4pro is telling me...arigato...4k60hz and I can see the doubling effect when I do a fast frame motion capture

Now if it's something like the drone footage thing I shot, I would put that in the "fast" mode

The optoma you are more or less dealing with either having a bright image or great colors... and since IMO feelsies on this and the product managers who lurk here will probably hate me for this

It's more of a -gaming- projector than anything else, so the cinema part... yeah it's there but you're going to do a lot of tinkering to get there

For gaming though a lot of real gamers will tell you that having an ultra low lag and 240hz refresh rate are important specs.

You have to decide how hardcore of a gamer that is to you and whether you need those specs. 1080p @240 hz alone is impressive to achieve although what a lot of us online are finding out is

you need a dedicated setup for that... Most AVRs can't pass that kinda signal

So i circle back to the part where one is just kind of an all around home theater and also gaming but maybe not the bleediest edge of the gaming but for your cinema use and for sports it's going to be just fine. The cinema part is going to be excellent and you will kick your friends out of your house because of it.

The gaming though if you have some new good rig equipment like a liquid cooled PC that passes this type of signal then you may be in a different arena. You are going to trade a lot of that cinema capability at the expense of having that razor sharp image and the blistering speed though. You just can't do all of it at once and you are going to be shifting gears with color settings constantly if you want all of it at once.

I may go buy an xbone today after watching Chris Majestic's new review of the UHD50x. He has called both of my machines the best gaming projector lol so you have to make your mind up.

Kinda like a balance thing decide where that part lies.
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post #22 of 39 Old 05-24-2020, 07:57 PM
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You'll feel it with a longer cable is how. Either that or it starts to refuse a signal or the lag from the length of cable starts to be felt. It's felt but not seen.

Bro you are in a pickle because both have their Strongpoints. The TK850 is (don't own it but i see it as) along the category of "movies in bright room but good color" category so maybe not your alley

The 3800 like you said is great and what you're not seeing on the pixel shift is that it is -diagonal- on the screen which doing so somehow increases perceived sharpness. I actually even went through the effort of taking a high frame rate camera to watch the epson pixel shift and it's... pretty cool.

The frame interpolation thing, Epson's site says it doesn't work with 4k enhancement on which... basically just disables their wobulation drive lens. They tell you to set the remote to "fine" which will do it anyways it seems automatically.

It seems natural because on the remote they have a button called "fine/fast" which normally I just leave mine on the "fine" mode as my PS4pro is telling me...arigato...4k60hz and I can see the doubling effect when I do a fast frame motion capture

Now if it's something like the drone footage thing I shot, I would put that in the "fast" mode

The optoma you are more or less dealing with either having a bright image or great colors... and since IMO feelsies on this and the product managers who lurk here will probably hate me for this

It's more of a -gaming- projector than anything else, so the cinema part... yeah it's there but you're going to do a lot of tinkering to get there

For gaming though a lot of real gamers will tell you that having an ultra low lag and 240hz refresh rate are important specs.

You have to decide how hardcore of a gamer that is to you and whether you need those specs. 1080p @240 hz alone is impressive to achieve although what a lot of us online are finding out is

you need a dedicated setup for that... Most AVRs can't pass that kinda signal

So i circle back to the part where one is just kind of an all around home theater and also gaming but maybe not the bleediest edge of the gaming but for your cinema use and for sports it's going to be just fine. The cinema part is going to be excellent and you will kick your friends out of your house because of it.

The gaming though if you have some new good rig equipment like a liquid cooled PC that passes this type of signal then you may be in a different arena. You are going to trade a lot of that cinema capability at the expense of having that razor sharp image and the blistering speed though. You just can't do all of it at once and you are going to be shifting gears with color settings constantly if you want all of it at once.

I may go buy an xbone today after watching Chris Majestic's new review of the UHD50x. He has called both of my machines the best gaming projector lol so you have to make your mind up.

Kinda like a balance thing decide where that part lies.
So I placed an order for the 3800 today, but not without a little drama. I ordered the 3800 from a discount place that charges re-stocking fees and shipping on all returns. Shortly after placing the order I realized that I didn't re-do my throw distance and pj placement calculations from my TK850 plans! Doh. Luckily I think it's going to work, but the placement is now less than ideal as it's going to block some recessed lighting and needs to be mounted lower to clear a bulkhead, and therefore closer to our heads. Oh well.

I don't have a console right now and I'm not a gamer, not since my uni days playing Quake 2 Rocket Arena campus LAN matches all night. Nearly failed out because of it. I messed around with chipped Xbox and 360 for a few years, but then I grew up and had kids etc, so there's not a lot of time or opportunity for gaming these days! But I can definitely envision making a case to get a Switch HD in a year or two when the kids are into it. And even though it's not serious gaming, I still don't want to deal with lag. I hate it. Hence the switch from the TK850.

I tried out GeForce Now recently, and I basically found it unplayable. The lag made it impossible to aim. Either that or I just suck now! I tried it with a mouse and a bluetooth controller, both were bad but the controller was definitely worse. So ya, the thought of lag really threw me off course with the TK850. That being said, after reading and watching many reviews, I think that the 3800 is also going to be a better cinema experience. From what I've gathered it seems to offer better contrast, better hdr performance, brighter color lumens, and deeper blacks. The of motion enhancement/frame interpolation kind of sucks, but the reviews seemed to indicate that jutter was not present at least.

Speaking of gaming though, I watched some game play demos the other day of the Unreal5 Engine, I think running on a PS5. It was insane. Look it up if you haven't seen it already
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post #23 of 39 Old 05-25-2020, 03:51 AM
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I’m also in the market for an epson 3200 or 3800. I have looked at other projectors, but none of them seem to have the same amount of lens shift. I don’t want to move the mount that’s already in the ceiling from our old epson. My HDMI cable is allegedly 18gbps. Hopefully it works with 4K.
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I’m also in the market for an epson 3200 or 3800. I have looked at other projectors, but none of them seem to have the same amount of lens shift. I don’t want to move the mount that’s already in the ceiling from our old epson. My HDMI cable is allegedly 18gbps. Hopefully it works with 4K.
Ya, I'm not sure how people get around cabling, other than having components at the back of the room that is. That's not an option with me seeing as my soundbar acts as my receiver. Although I need to investigate the best way to hook everything up; ie sources into the projector or sources into the sound bar and then video out to the projector...

I ordered a certified high speed 25 ft hdmi cable which I figured would be long enough when I had originally ordered the TK850. But now that I've switched my order to a 3800, I'm not sure if that cable is going to reach.

The place I ordered my cable from, I'm pretty sure that 25 ft was the longest that they had that were certified, but they had others up to 50 ft that claim to do 18 gbps. And I've seen others on here say that they've successfully used 50 ft cables, but at that length I think that it can be hit or miss.
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Sorry I promised to give some info after the purchase, but I got pretty busy moving into my new place and totally forgot about it.

I never owned a TK850, so no direct comparison can be made. Luckily, I played with my friend's HT3550 for quite a while, so I can make a comparison to that.

For now, I will list some aspects and give them a (very subjective) mark:

Sharpness: (3/5) Well, this is definitely NOT 4k, not even close. The sharpness HT3550 is significantly better if you stand close to the screen and scrutinize it. I saw HT3550 on 120'' screen and my HC3800 is on 100", and yet HT3550 is still a LOT sharper. However, this is only a noticeable issue when I'm working with small text - for example, you connect it to a computer and using a browser - which is a very unlikely circumstance for many users. For me it's common, so it does matter. There is this "image enhancement" feature, which is supposed to process your image so that it looks sharper, and I personally don't find it very useful. Small texts are actually less readable when the feature is on - they are sharper but a bit distorted. When it's in a game or a movie - the sharpness never bothers me. With the feature on or off, they don't look significantly different, and to be honest, they look equally great, not any worse than the HT3550. That's proabably because I'm using a rather small screen (100") and sitting 13 feet away from it. Could be a very different story if you use a 150" screen, or if you sit a lot closer to the screen.

Color: (5/5) I'm not a person very sensitive to color accuracy, so I will just give it full marks. It has a color that makes me happy in "bright cinema" mode. The quieter "natural" mode doesn't look as sweet, but it's significantly quieter and the color is still acceptable.

HDR: (4/5) I don't see much color difference from an SDR source and from an HDR source - they look the same to me on HC3800, which is why I took 1 mark from it. The contrast though, is impressive. As impressive as the HT3550 I used. The light reflection on metal, the sunlight, everything feels very realistic. I'm not a professional reviewer for either the color or the HDR performance, you may want to look at those professional reviews for numbers and get a quantitative sense.

Features: (6/5) I love how user-friendly this projector is. The APTX bluetooth functionality allows me to connect it with my speakers in the front of my living room (with a bluetooth audio transmitter), and it takes audio input from HDMI directly so I never need to run an audio cable between any devices, and no latency can be sensed at all. If you are very serious about audio system you might find the feature useless, but if you're like me, just using a pair of stereo speakers in the front of the room or just using a soundbar, then this feature is PERFECT. The lense shift is also a life saver. Without the lens shift, you would need to place the project at exactly the correct position, otherwise you will need to place the projector first, then the screen, like most people do. Now with the lens shift, I can put up my screen first - wherever it looks aethetically nice to me in the room, and then set up the projector. You can't just fix a projector onto the drywall - you need to find a stud first. But finding a stud at exactly where you want to put your projector isn't always possible, and you might need to use a plywood or something to fix the problem - with lense shift it's not an issue at all, you just fix your projector to a stud, then shift your lens. The installation of HC3800 is less than half of the time I used to set up the HT3550 for my friend. The remote is also great. It's very big, not as cute and nice as the one for HT3550, but it basically has a separate button for everything you might need to adjust. When I helped my friend setting up that HT3550, most of the time I was fishing through the Menu to find the options. It's been 2 months since I bought 3800, and I only opened the menu twice, once for changing the orientation, once for hooking up with bluetooth speakers. And then there's HDMI CEC - simple but useful feature that allows me to control my apple TV via my projector remote, or reversely, to control my projector with my Apple TV remote. How nice is it? Very. There's no separate volume for my Apple TV and the projector - there's only one volume, and it can be controlled by either remote. When the tiny Apple TV remote falls somewhere into my sofa, I just use the direction keys on the projector remote to control it. When it's time to bed, I just use either remote to power off my apple TV and it sends a signal to sleep my projector at the same time.

Gaming: (5/5) Just awesome. There was a big chance that I could sense some input lag on this machine - I'm using a 25ft HDMI cable running from my PC in bedroom, which is quite longer than normal; the wirelss controller could also produce lag since the PC is in another room and is at least 7 meters away; on paper, HC3800 doesn't have an input lag as low as 8 ms or even close. But no, there's simply no lag or ghosting that I can sense at all. The HDR for the Witcher 3, for Detroit: Become Human, they are simply astonishing. Hollow Knight looks fantastic on the screen. There's just this one question that bothers me: if the projector is not as sharp as a 4K DLP, am I not wasting my GPU power for a 4k output? Shouldn't I just output a 1080p signal to it and receive a way higher framerate - but that way, why wouldn't I just buy a 1080p projector anyways? Well, I guess the PS5 will give a stable [email protected] so probably I'll stop worrying about it when I can get a PS5.

Brightness: (5/5) My room is extra bright. It's eastwards with no wall but just glass panels on the east side, and I live on the 30th floor, which means my room is filled with sunlight during the day. How does the projector perform? Great. For SDR content everything is just fine, even in the brightest hours of the day, everything is crystal clear as long as I put curtains down; for HDR content, you might need to lower the HDR level to 1 or 2 so that the content will be viewable. The picture is, of course, not nearly as vivid as it is during the night, but if you're just watching a sitcom or talkshow during the day, it's totally fine.

3D: (?/?) Where do I even find 3D content or the glasses in 2020?


Summary:
+ Decent color
+ Beautiful lighting under HDR
+ Low input lag
+ Probably one of the most feature-rich projectors, makes life easy
+ Bright enough to be used with some ambient light
- When there's text involved, noticeably less sharp than 4k DLPs
- Fan noise is noticeable when not set to ECO and Natural color, HT3550 wasn't much better though
- The projector case itself is huge and heavy. Not nearly as huge or heavy as the more adavanced UB models, but at the same price range, the Benq models are a lot smaller, lighter, and aesthetically look better. Just judging from the appearance, they look like devices from different decades. HC3800 looks like a machine produced in 2010, a HT3550 or TK850 looks like a product in 2020.
- Same goes for the remote. But a larger, bulkier remote is not necessarily bad, as I said before. You spend less time in menu and have less interruption to your viewing experience. Some people do enjoy a prettier design, though.
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Last edited by Granny Lee; Yesterday at 01:54 PM.
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post #26 of 39 Old Yesterday, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GeoGemini View Post
Ya, I'm not sure how people get around cabling, other than having components at the back of the room that is. That's not an option with me seeing as my soundbar acts as my receiver. Although I need to investigate the best way to hook everything up; ie sources into the projector or sources into the sound bar and then video out to the projector...

I ordered a certified high speed 25 ft hdmi cable which I figured would be long enough when I had originally ordered the TK850. But now that I've switched my order to a 3800, I'm not sure if that cable is going to reach.

The place I ordered my cable from, I'm pretty sure that 25 ft was the longest that they had that were certified, but they had others up to 50 ft that claim to do 18 gbps. And I've seen others on here say that they've successfully used 50 ft cables, but at that length I think that it can be hit or miss.
Hi, you may want to use the same way that I hooked up my speakers. I had a pair of computer speakers, which are non-bluetooth, and receives regular audio signal via a 3.5mm port. I bought an APTX bluetooth transmitter (https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07XMRMK6F/), connected it to the speakers and now they basically has become a pair of bluetooth speakers - but different than a normal bluetooth speaker, since they never need to be recharged and is always on. Then I just hook up the 3800's bluetooth with them, once and for all. The projector takes in audio signal via HDMI, and outputs it via bluetooth, so in the whole set up, the only audio cable used is the one to connect the speakers with the transmitter, which are both in the front of the room. I find this setup very clean, and also lag-free. Although, if you are and audio guy, you might think bluetooth could bottleneck the performance of your sound system - I am personally satisfied with the sound quality though.
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post #27 of 39 Old Yesterday, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GeoGemini View Post
Ya, I'm not sure how people get around cabling, other than having components at the back of the room that is. That's not an option with me seeing as my soundbar acts as my receiver. Although I need to investigate the best way to hook everything up; ie sources into the projector or sources into the sound bar and then video out to the projector...

I ordered a certified high speed 25 ft hdmi cable which I figured would be long enough when I had originally ordered the TK850. But now that I've switched my order to a 3800, I'm not sure if that cable is going to reach.

The place I ordered my cable from, I'm pretty sure that 25 ft was the longest that they had that were certified, but they had others up to 50 ft that claim to do 18 gbps. And I've seen others on here say that they've successfully used 50 ft cables, but at that length I think that it can be hit or miss.
Just to clarify, I am not in any way related to the producer of that bluetooth receiver. I bought this one and I'm satisfied, but same product from other brands at the same price range should be equally good - it's a small and easy feature to implement after all. Just remember to get one with aptx so you you get lower latency.

Oh and also, I think I called it a "transmitter" in previous posts, which is incorrect. It's a receiver. A transmitter can take in wired audio signal and send it to other speakers via bluetooth, while a receiver takes in bluetooth sinal and send it to speakers via wire. Most products you find can be used as either a transmitter and a receiver, but this one cannot. It's just a receiver.

Last edited by Granny Lee; Yesterday at 02:16 PM.
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post #28 of 39 Old Yesterday, 02:47 PM
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@Granny Lee not sure what 3D glasses maybe ask Epson:
https://epson.com/Accessories/Projec...3/p/V12H548006

3D is available on some streaming services and 3D blu rays, as well as 3D gaming.
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@Granny Lee not sure what 3D glasses maybe ask Epson:
https://epson.com/Accessories/Projec...3/p/V12H548006

3D is available on some streaming services and 3D blu rays, as well as 3D gaming.
I don't know about 3D blu ray players since I never owned one, but both 3d streaming and gaming seems to be in bad shape... Bigger streaming platforms do not have any 3D content (Netflix, AmazonPrime, HBO, AppleTV, etc), and Nvidia 3d Vision has been discontinued for quite a few years. If there's a way to experience 3D on projector that does not come with too much trouble, I would love to try. I heard that playstation provides some 3D streaming service? Not sure if PS5 will have it too
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post #30 of 39 Old Yesterday, 04:45 PM
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I wouldn't recommend sending audio via bluetooth directly from the 3800 as it only supports up to aptX. If you must use bluetooth, a better option would be to use an aptX-LL BT transmitter from the audio out of the 3800 to an aptX-LL receiver to reduce latency.
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