Epson 4010 vs Optoma UHD50X or.. suggestions? (Canadian) - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 42 Old 05-16-2020, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Epson 4010 vs Optoma UHD50X or.. suggestions? (Canadian)

Hey all!

Canadian buyer here, for what it’s worth.

I’m looking for a projector that will mostly be used for movies, sports, and probably console gaming in the future. Most gaming I do on PC. I just purchased an Epson 4010 while price watching on Amazon for $1700 CDN (regular is $2600 CDN). The projector will be in the basement, mounted on 9’ ceiling and throwing from 13’ onto a 120” screen. There is one window in the basement but will easily be able to be covered so light shouldn’t be an issue at all. The screen wall is black but the rest of the walls will be an off white due to it not being a dedicated room.

I was happy with my 4010 purchase, however, I just seen this UHD50X come out and I’m wondering if it would be a better option to return and wait for this thing to come to Canada? The 5050UB ($4000 CDN) isn’t in my price range at the moment as we will be moving into the new build and have a ton of other stuff to purchase, including the audio. Perhaps it would come down for a Black Friday sale? (We take possession in Septemberish..).

The biggest thing seems to be the lack of the 18 Gb/s HDMI connection. How important TRULY is this? I would still like to stream Netflix/Prime in 4K and would like to do the same if the PS5 comes out. I’m struggling a bit understanding the connections, as a lot of people talk about it being a “faux-K” projector anyways. Is there a massive discernible difference between that 18gb/s and 10gb/s for what I will be using it for? Just wondering your thoughts on the matter and I appreciate any help! I do have some time as well, so if it would be best to return and wait for a future deal on a 5050UB or something..

Apologies for the ignorance regarding the connections, I’ve been out of the game for too long.

Thanks
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post #2 of 42 Old 05-16-2020, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Jaseus View Post
Hey all!

Canadian buyer here, for what it’s worth.

I’m looking for a projector that will mostly be used for movies, sports, and probably console gaming in the future. Most gaming I do on PC. I just purchased an Epson 4010 while price watching on Amazon for $1700 CDN (regular is $2600 CDN). The projector will be in the basement, mounted on 9’ ceiling and throwing from 13’ onto a 120” screen. There is one window in the basement but will easily be able to be covered so light shouldn’t be an issue at all. The screen wall is black but the rest of the walls will be an off white due to it not being a dedicated room.

I was happy with my 4010 purchase, however, I just seen this UHD50X come out and I’m wondering if it would be a better option to return and wait for this thing to come to Canada? The 5050UB ($4000 CDN) isn’t in my price range at the moment as we will be moving into the new build and have a ton of other stuff to purchase, including the audio. Perhaps it would come down for a Black Friday sale? (We take possession in Septemberish..).

The biggest thing seems to be the lack of the 18 Gb/s HDMI connection. How important TRULY is this? I would still like to stream Netflix/Prime in 4K and would like to do the same if the PS5 comes out. I’m struggling a bit understanding the connections, as a lot of people talk about it being a “faux-K” projector anyways. Is there a massive discernible difference between that 18gb/s and 10gb/s for what I will be using it for? Just wondering your thoughts on the matter and I appreciate any help! I do have some time as well, so if it would be best to return and wait for a future deal on a 5050UB or something..

Apologies for the ignorance regarding the connections, I’ve been out of the game for too long.

Thanks
Types of 4K (faux 4K, native 4K) are a separate issue from bandwidth.

Not going to go into details, but sharpness perception is influenced by many factors, not just type of 4K. Unless the screen is overly large and or the seating position is too close, resolution should not be of primary concern.

How far away is the seating position?


In regards to the bandwidth, for 10GB HDMI only 4K HDR 24/30Hz is possible. 4K HDR 60Hz is possible if bit depth is dropped to 8bit from 10. This will result in banding in solid colors. Besides a PC, it can be be changed with HDFury Linker.
It's not just for gaming, but some streaming services/boxes require 60Hz, as in 4K HDR 60Hz.

The UHD50x is primarily a gaming projector, it's black level, color, picture quality in general is the worst of the 4K models. It can do 4K HDR 60Hz with ~25ms. It can also do 1080p in 240Hz. The Epsons can do ~25ms lag.

DLP has better motion handling than 3LCD. Since you already has the HC4010 you should already have an idea what 3LCD is capable of.


With limited resources you have to decide what is most important. Motion handling, contrast, black level, lag, etc.


What are you interested in projection?

What do you like about the current projector and what do you want to improve?

What percentage movies/TV/gaming/sports?

Any ambient light?
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post #3 of 42 Old 05-16-2020, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply.

Seating position will be around 10’ away from the 120” screen. I should have clarified that I do not have this projector set up. I am accumulating pieces for the home theatre as we will be moving into the new house in September, so I have not had the actual chance to view it. It is just sitting in the box as it was delivered this week and then I found out about the UHD50X and started to second guess the decision.

I think I would be interested in projecting sports, movies/streaming, and gaming in a roughly 50/30/20 split. There is one small window in the basement but the light will be easy to control from it with covering, so light is not an issue.

If it is primarily a gaming projector, that might take it off the list. Would I then look towards a comparison between the 4010, 3800, and 5050ub? I would like it to be at least a bit future proof for sure, which is why the 4010 is concerning to me. I’m just wondering if I return it and wait for sales in September/Black Friday for the 3800 or the 5050ub (if that happens). As I stated, at the current price the 5050ub is probably out of the budget. If I’m unable to find a better projector for the value I’ve found with the 4010, do I just stick with it? Or is the 3800 also a good option in my situation?

Thanks again for your assistance.
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post #4 of 42 Old 05-16-2020, 10:26 AM
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Thanks for the reply.

Seating position will be around 10’ away from the 120” screen. I should have clarified that I do not have this projector set up. I am accumulating pieces for the home theatre as we will be moving into the new house in September, so I have not had the actual chance to view it. It is just sitting in the box as it was delivered this week and then I found out about the UHD50X and started to second guess the decision.

I think I would be interested in projecting sports, movies/streaming, and gaming in a roughly 50/30/20 split. There is one small window in the basement but the light will be easy to control from it with covering, so light is not an issue.

If it is primarily a gaming projector, that might take it off the list. Would I then look towards a comparison between the 4010, 3800, and 5050ub? I would like it to be at least a bit future proof for sure, which is why the 4010 is concerning to me. I’m just wondering if I return it and wait for sales in September/Black Friday for the 3800 or the 5050ub (if that happens). As I stated, at the current price the 5050ub is probably out of the budget. If I’m unable to find a better projector for the value I’ve found with the 4010, do I just stick with it? Or is the 3800 also a good option in my situation?

Thanks again for your assistance.
For 50% sports DLP would be recommended. You might want to get the 4010 and see what sports looks like if opening it up wouldn't be an issue with respect to returning it.

But I would not keep it due to the 10GB HDMI.

Not sure if it's possible to see a DLP projector in this period.

Unfortunately with a 4K DLP contrast and black level will be seriously affected.

If you have to choose one, get the UHD50x. I don't know if there will be any deals on the 5050UB. Even if there are, with 50% sports DLP is preferable.

Last edited by noob00224; 05-16-2020 at 10:30 AM.
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post #5 of 42 Old 05-16-2020, 10:40 AM
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Besides the projector, the room should be treated. It would benefit any projector:
https://www.facebook.com/projectiond...2721894385217/

I would also use a paint mix for the screen. It will deepen the blacks and brighten the whites, at the same time. A grey screen will dim the image, deepening the blacks but also affecting the brightest whites and colors, which are relevant for HDR.

The best way to get the paint mix best for your setup is to start a new thread here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-diy-screen-section/

Not sure if you'll like a grey screen. There are samples available from Elite, Carl's, Silver Ticket.
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post #6 of 42 Old 05-16-2020, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaseus View Post
Hey all!

Canadian buyer here, for what it’s worth.

I’m looking for a projector that will mostly be used for movies, sports, and probably console gaming in the future. Most gaming I do on PC. I just purchased an Epson 4010 while price watching on Amazon for $1700 CDN (regular is $2600 CDN). The projector will be in the basement, mounted on 9’ ceiling and throwing from 13’ onto a 120” screen. There is one window in the basement but will easily be able to be covered so light shouldn’t be an issue at all. The screen wall is black but the rest of the walls will be an off white due to it not being a dedicated room.

I was happy with my 4010 purchase, however, I just seen this UHD50X come out and I’m wondering if it would be a better option to return and wait for this thing to come to Canada? The 5050UB ($4000 CDN) isn’t in my price range at the moment as we will be moving into the new build and have a ton of other stuff to purchase, including the audio. Perhaps it would come down for a Black Friday sale? (We take possession in Septemberish..).

The biggest thing seems to be the lack of the 18 Gb/s HDMI connection. How important TRULY is this? I would still like to stream Netflix/Prime in 4K and would like to do the same if the PS5 comes out. I’m struggling a bit understanding the connections, as a lot of people talk about it being a “faux-K” projector anyways. Is there a massive discernible difference between that 18gb/s and 10gb/s for what I will be using it for? Just wondering your thoughts on the matter and I appreciate any help! I do have some time as well, so if it would be best to return and wait for a future deal on a 5050UB or something..

Apologies for the ignorance regarding the connections, I’ve been out of the game for too long.

Thanks
The best low cost 4K BD player is the Panasonic UB420 with it's HDR Optimizer and it's like adding a whole new mode to 4K HDR projectors. It will also stream Netflix and Primevideo in Canada. Unfortunately, it only streams at 60hz, including 4K HDR, so the 10gbps limit would be a real handicap. Other streaming devices often will stream at 4K at 60hz as well.

The Sony UBP-X700 is also very good for playing 4K BDs and it can play Netflix at native 24hz (some Netflix HD movies and 4K HDR productions are 24hz) but it doesn't stream Primevideo in Canada and it generally doesn't do as well as the UB420 for 4K BDs.
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post #7 of 42 Old 05-16-2020, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Besides the projector, the room should be treated. It would benefit any projector:


I would also use a paint mix for the screen. It will deepen the blacks and brighten the whites, at the same time. A grey screen will dim the image, deepening the blacks but also affecting the brightest whites and colors, which are relevant for HDR.

The best way to get the paint mix best for your setup is to start a new thread here:


Not sure if you'll like a grey screen. There are samples available from Elite, Carl's, Silver Ticket.
Wow! That is actually quite remarkable but also not surprising. Definitely gives you something to think about, for sure. I do have the ability to close the area off a bit so I will consider that.

I was planning on doing a mounted white Silver Ticket 120" screen. Are you referring to paint for the actual area to be projected on, or the wall behind the projector?

Ok.. the 10gb/s seems to be a massive hang up for most people. I should look towards something else, then. projectorcentral also has the UHD50X ranked higher than even the 5050.. but they may have paid for that..
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post #8 of 42 Old 05-16-2020, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
The best low cost 4K BD player is the Panasonic UB420 with it's HDR Optimizer and it's like adding a whole new mode to 4K HDR projectors. It will also stream Netflix and Primevideo in Canada. Unfortunately, it only streams at 60hz, including 4K HDR, so the 10gbps limit would be a real handicap. Other streaming devices often will stream at 4K at 60hz as well.

The Sony UBP-X700 is also very good for playing 4K BDs and it can play Netflix at native 24hz (some Netflix HD movies and 4K HDR productions are 24hz) but it doesn't stream Primevideo in Canada and it generally doesn't do as well as the UB420 for 4K BDs.
I was actually looking towards the PS5 to be the 4K BD player.. or would that be a silly option? As I said.. I'm just accumulating everything for the build that will probably be happening in September/October.. I can wait for the release of the new consoles I think.
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I was actually looking towards the PS5 to be the 4K BD player.. or would that be a silly option? As I said.. I'm just accumulating everything for the build that will probably be happening in September/October.. I can wait for the release of the new consoles I think.
I don't know enough about the PS5 to comment, but I can say that the UB420 will be a superior choice for 4K BDs.
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post #10 of 42 Old 05-16-2020, 11:24 PM
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Wow! That is actually quite remarkable but also not surprising. Definitely gives you something to think about, for sure. I do have the ability to close the area off a bit so I will consider that.

I was planning on doing a mounted white Silver Ticket 120" screen. Are you referring to paint for the actual area to be projected on, or the wall behind the projector?

Ok.. the 10gb/s seems to be a massive hang up for most people. I should look towards something else, then. projectorcentral also has the UHD50X ranked higher than even the 5050.. but they may have paid for that..
Don't mind the rankings, useless.

I'm referring to the paint applied to the projection surface. Which can be applied on a smooth white wall or a smooth white PVC screen.

You can inquire about what kind of paint to be used on the walls/ceiling as well.

The 5050UB is a superior machine in all ways to the DLP except for motion handling and that it can do some higher refresh rates and uncommon resolutions for projectors:
4K 60Hz - 25.8ms
1440P 60Hz - 23.8ms
1080P 60Hz - 23.8ms
1080P 120Hz - 18.2ms
1080P 240Hz - 15.7ms

Sports are really good with DLP. The 5050UB as I mentioned is a great machine, with one of it's major selling points the good black level/contrast. For sports it's wasted, but it could be an advantage for gaming. The problem is DLP is also better for gaming.

Two DLP projectors that have better black level than the UHD50x, but not close to the 5050UB would be Bent HT3550 and 5550. Lag is ~50ms. Probably lower in 1080p 120Hz.

They are however not bright enough for sports with ambient light on on a white screen in an untreated room. If the room were to be treated, the screen a paint mix which can help with fighting ambient light besides improving the image, lights recessed and not in the screen area, then they might work.

There is the possibility that the ratio might change. Movies, including a lot of high production quality TV will look great on the Epson. The Epson will also benefit for a paint mix screen.

If the 4010 can't be opened, here is a HT3550 DLP (left) and Epson HC3800 (right) on an 133" white screen. The lag is obvious, but the comparison is for motion handling:

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@Jaseus or get an inexpensive 1080p DLP and use it until sale season comes up. It will give you an idea of projection based setups.

The HT1070a and others are great deals:
https://www.benq.com/en-us/explore-b...e-theater.html
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post #12 of 42 Old 05-18-2020, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Don't mind the rankings, useless.

I'm referring to the paint applied to the projection surface. Which can be applied on a smooth white wall or a smooth white PVC screen.

You can inquire about what kind of paint to be used on the walls/ceiling as well.

The 5050UB is a superior machine in all ways to the DLP except for motion handling and that it can do some higher refresh rates and uncommon resolutions for projectors:
4K 60Hz - 25.8ms
1440P 60Hz - 23.8ms
1080P 60Hz - 23.8ms
1080P 120Hz - 18.2ms
1080P 240Hz - 15.7ms

Sports are really good with DLP. The 5050UB as I mentioned is a great machine, with one of it's major selling points the good black level/contrast. For sports it's wasted, but it could be an advantage for gaming. The problem is DLP is also better for gaming.

Two DLP projectors that have better black level than the UHD50x, but not close to the 5050UB would be Bent HT3550 and 5550. Lag is ~50ms. Probably lower in 1080p 120Hz.

They are however not bright enough for sports with ambient light on on a white screen in an untreated room. If the room were to be treated, the screen a paint mix which can help with fighting ambient light besides improving the image, lights recessed and not in the screen area, then they might work.

There is the possibility that the ratio might change. Movies, including a lot of high production quality TV will look great on the Epson. The Epson will also benefit for a paint mix screen.

If the 4010 can't be opened, here is a HT3550 DLP (left) and Epson HC3800 (right) on an 133" white screen. The lag is obvious, but the comparison is for motion handling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B0jReZWRvk
We are actually staying at the in-laws, so even setting it up and using it is pointless until we are in our new place as I wouldn't get a good idea given the space etc.

I suppose the hang up is at the ~$3000 price point, there isn't a projector that is good at everything. I will always be giving some to get some in some respect. I do want movies to look beautiful on it as well. If I had to give up somewhere, it would probably be the gaming, as I said I do most of that on PC anyways. Sports/movies/streaming and TV events would be the priority I suppose.
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I have the UHD50x and the Epson 3800 and neither seem to phase either machine watching sports

Epson is brighter with better color and contrast but the DLP is for sure sharper by about 10% (but that's @3ft from 150")
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I have the UHD50x and the Epson 3800 and neither seem to phase either machine watching sports

Epson is brighter with better color and contrast but the DLP is for sure sharper by about 10% (but that's @3ft from 150")
Which mode do you use for the UHD50X for sports?

Have you tried it with gamma = graphics?
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Which mode do you use for the UHD50X for sports?

Have you tried it with gamma = graphics?
I just did and good suggestion, if nothing else wow it brings the white wheel in for better daytime use combined with dynamic black. I definitely get better white highlights for daytime use with that gamma setting.
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I have the UHD50x and the Epson 3800 and neither seem to phase either machine watching sports

Epson is brighter with better color and contrast but the DLP is for sure sharper by about 10% (but that's @3ft from 150")
Any experience with the 4010 for comparison purposes? I just don't know if it's even going to bother me to not have that 4K @ 60Hz or not. Do you notice a substantial difference on a "Faux-K" projector? Lots of people seem to say it handles the 4K @ 30Hz just fine, and with the 4010 (even if it happened to have the 18Gbp/s HDMI) would you notice that much of a difference from 30Hz to 60Hz? I gather you would for gaming, but I'm not sure about streaming. I guess the biggest issue is just actually having access to that 4K content if it's only going to stream if you have the 60Hz capability.

Does sharpness decrease with distance due to the throw? I would be projecting from about 12-13' onto a 120".
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Any experience with the 4010 for comparison purposes? I just don't know if it's even going to bother me to not have that 4K @ 60Hz or not. Do you notice a substantial difference on a "Faux-K" projector? Lots of people seem to say it handles the 4K @ 30Hz just fine, and with the 4010 (even if it happened to have the 18Gbp/s HDMI) would you notice that much of a difference from 30Hz to 60Hz? I gather you would for gaming, but I'm not sure about streaming. I guess the biggest issue is just actually having access to that 4K content if it's only going to stream if you have the 60Hz capability.

Does sharpness decrease with distance due to the throw? I would be projecting from about 12-13' onto a 120".
I don't know what the poster above is talking about, but DLP is much better at sports than 3LCD.

Resolution between DLP and 3LCD should not be an issue in your setup, but some streaming services/boxes will require 60Hz. If gaming will be dropped then get a Benq TK850. It's got an iris so blacks will not be too bad, but nowhere near good, but it's DLP and has motion interpolation. It's lag is 60-80ms, so maybe single player RPG style games can still work.

The 5050UB has good contrast, but what is the point of it when the main use of the unit will be sports. This is why I asked to open the 4010 and see what it looks like with sports. The 4010 is the 5050 without the good blacks.
The only reason you should get the 5050 is if the movie/tv proportion will rise. I don't know how you can know that though. If you open up the 4010 and it seems ok for sports then you could get a 5050. But don' expect some big sales on it. Last year it was was not much as far as I remember.
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Any experience with the 4010 for comparison purposes? I just don't know if it's even going to bother me to not have that 4K @ 60Hz or not. Do you notice a substantial difference on a "Faux-K" projector? Lots of people seem to say it handles the 4K @ 30Hz just fine, and with the 4010 (even if it happened to have the 18Gbp/s HDMI) would you notice that much of a difference from 30Hz to 60Hz? I gather you would for gaming, but I'm not sure about streaming. I guess the biggest issue is just actually having access to that 4K content if it's only going to stream if you have the 60Hz capability.

Does sharpness decrease with distance due to the throw? I would be projecting from about 12-13' onto a 120".
I never bought the 4010 or the 5040/5050 because of the aforementioned HDMI bandwidth issues.

When I bought a 4k TV back in 2014 I learned my lesson of not to buy anything unless it had the absolute latest "protocol"
(I got screwed over with the last of the 1.4a TVs, had to identify my Golf Samsung circuitboard, personally firmware flash it... etc... Some samsungs didn't even get the right chip back then)

So my advice would be to not buy the 4-series at all. If you need movie level blacks in your batcave, get the 5050

If you game, either that I'm testing are great machines. DLP on the 50x just hairs over the Epson because of the 240hz but you can't use it for everything because the rez drops when you enable it

Yes your biggest struggle will be finding quality 4k content even. You can't just buy a PS4 even, only the pro will get you there today. You'll need a UHD player too... PS4/pro will only play reggo blue rays and not the black UHD ones.

Not having 60hz will irritate the crap out of you so I'd think twice unless you're only buying that for movies. 24p is just fine for movies... That's why I bought the 3800 from the start. 30hz if you game, you will see the choppiness and frames because your persistence of vision is slightly higher.

The only reason sharpness would decrease as a component of throw would be lens quality.

Epson seems to have the slight edge but unless you're throwing up a 150" screen then you again won't notice it. Either machine focuses just fine and neither are perfect.

Again though the room setup... Epson you can be belligerently drunk and as long as you can manage to plug in the power and HDMI, point it at a wall, and turn three knobs you are done. The Optoma unless you do a coffee table setup will need to be ceiling mounted (which I just completed). There's another $100 for cables, mounting kit, stud finder, broken arm from ladder, etc.

DLPs are not known for lens shift... had I a second go at this I'd have gotten the UHD30 instead because I don't see the point of 10degrees of vertical shift with zero horizontal.

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post #19 of 42 Old 05-19-2020, 06:56 AM
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I never bought the 4010 or the 5040/5050 because of the aforementioned HDMI bandwidth issues.

When I bought a 4k TV back in 2014 I learned my lesson of not to buy anything unless it had the absolute latest "protocol"
(I got screwed over with the last of the 1.4a TVs, had to identify my Golf Samsung circuitboard, personally firmware flash it... etc... Some samsungs didn't even get the right chip back then)

So my advice would be to not buy the 4-series at all. If you need movie level blacks in your batcave, get the 5050

If you game, either that I'm testing are great machines. DLP on the 50x just hairs over the Epson because of the 240hz but you can't use it for everything because the rez drops when you enable it

Yes your biggest struggle will be finding quality 4k content even. You can't just buy a PS4 even, only the pro will get you there today. You'll need a UHD player too... PS4/pro will only play reggo blue rays and not the black UHD ones.

Not having 60hz will irritate the crap out of you so I'd think twice unless you're only buying that for movies. 24p is just fine for movies... That's why I bought the 3800 from the start. 30hz if you game, you will see the choppiness and frames because your persistence of vision is slightly higher.

The only reason sharpness would decrease as a component of throw would be lens quality.

Epson seems to have the slight edge but unless you're throwing up a 150" screen then you again won't notice it. Either machine focuses just fine and neither are perfect.

Again though the room setup... Epson you can be belligerently drunk and as long as you can manage to plug in the power and HDMI, point it at a wall, and turn three knobs you are done. The Optoma unless you do a coffee table setup will need to be ceiling mounted (which I just completed). There's another $100 for cables, mounting kit, stud finder, broken arm from ladder, etc.

DLPs are not known for lens shift... had I a second go at this I'd have gotten the UHD30 instead because I don't see the point of 10degrees of vertical shift with zero horizontal.
The 5050UB has 18GB HDMI.

The 60Hz is not just for gaming, as it's been noted above it's also required for some streaming services/boxes.

The literature says that the more zoom is used (closer to the screen) a projector uses the less sharp it will be. But it's probably not applicable to the projectors mentioned here. Maybe with lower end models.
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post #20 of 42 Old 05-19-2020, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
The 5050UB has 18GB HDMI.

The 60Hz is not just for gaming, as it's been noted above it's also required for some streaming services/boxes.

The literature says that the more zoom is used (closer to the screen) a projector uses the less sharp it will be. But it's probably not applicable to the projectors mentioned here. Maybe with lower end models.
Agreed and good point yes it's only the 4000 series that has the limitation

Neither of the projectors seem to have a problem with lens quality. Both have proven now to me that they can resolve a 150" screen and they both handedly max out their zooms and can still resolve just fine.


I'm still on the 3LCD boat personally.
Now that I have both mounted on the same screen, I'm seeing that even though the Optoma's lumen output beats the epson on paper, in real life the whole talk about people's colors getting washed out is starting to make sense.

During the day, the Optoma just isn't quite as bright as the Epson and the colors can't pump the lumen output. Contrast is good but the picture looks like my Epson on Eco mode even though the Optoma is going as hard as it can go
At night, then I find out how much work the Optoma had to do to match the Epson during the day.
I watched Star Wars - Rise of Skywalker and I was so disappointed

Several scenes to note and maybe someone can help me tune my 50x colors
1. 50x's yellow looks like mustard. What in the F**k? The red looked like wine but I figured out how to tune that up and blue a bit too. Even the title of the movie came out tinted too orange in spectra
2. The contrast sucks. Why does my contrast suck so hard? I can't even get a 2006 monster ISF DVD to show me the black contrast X so I can ISF tune this machine? The Epson tuned to this just fine and it actually helped. I know it's not a modern disk but wow it should pass something from 2006 with flying colors. Darks are washed out and so are whites from the very get go
3. The HDR I don't think is real and Red/Blue just didn't pop. There were scenes with R2D2, 3PO, where their lights look like red and blue jolly ranchers on the Epson. Looks like red or blue from a low contrast TV on the Optoma. Where is the color punch?

It ruined Lando for me too which I was most upset about. On the Epson, you can see his age and wisdom spots and his light skinned complexion came out perfectly. It made the moment where he showed up memorable.. The Optoma had him come out like Trump wearing orange paint. His skin was stained by the mustard yellow which I still can't understand why that specific color is so much off compared to the Epson.

I feel like if I can fix the yellow I might improve the PQ quite a bit

I'm on a white wall too that I painted with high gain satin paint myself so I'm not getting interference? Same wall now for both machines but one has a weird Yellow. Will try to get a side by side since I have them both up now.

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post #21 of 42 Old 05-19-2020, 10:00 AM
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Agreed and good point yes it's only the 4000 series that has the limitation

Neither of the projectors seem to have a problem with lens quality. Both have proven now to me that they can resolve a 150" screen and they both handedly max out their zooms and can still resolve just fine.


I'm still on the 3LCD boat personally.
Now that I have both mounted on the same screen, I'm seeing that even though the Optoma's lumen output beats the epson on paper, in real life the whole talk about people's colors getting washed out is starting to make sense.

During the day, the Optoma just isn't quite as bright as the Epson and the colors can't pump the lumen output. Contrast is good but the picture looks like my Epson on Eco mode even though the Optoma is going as hard as it can go
At night, then I find out how much work the Optoma had to do to match the Epson during the day.
I watched Star Wars - Rise of Skywalker and I was so disappointed

Several scenes to note and maybe someone can help me tune my 50x colors
1. 50x's yellow looks like mustard. What in the F**k? The red looked like wine but I figured out how to tune that up and blue a bit too. Even the title of the movie came out tinted too orange in spectra
2. The contrast sucks. Why does my contrast suck so hard? I can't even get a 2006 monster ISF DVD to show me the black contrast X so I can ISF tune this machine? The Epson tuned to this just fine and it actually helped. I know it's not a modern disk but wow it should pass something from 2006 with flying colors. Darks are washed out and so are whites from the very get go
3. The HDR I don't think is real and Red/Blue just didn't pop. There were scenes with R2D2, 3PO, where their lights look like red and blue jolly ranchers on the Epson. Looks like red or blue from a low contrast TV on the Optoma. Where is the color punch?

It ruined Lando for me too which I was most upset about. On the Epson, you can see his age and wisdom spots and his light skinned complexion came out perfectly. It made the moment where he showed up memorable.. The Optoma had him come out like Trump wearing orange paint. His skin was stained by the mustard yellow which I still can't understand why that specific color is so much off compared to the Epson.

I feel like if I can fix the yellow I might improve the PQ quite a bit

I'm on a white wall too that I painted with high gain satin paint myself so I'm not getting interference? Same wall now for both machines but one has a weird Yellow. Will try to get a side by side since I have them both up now.
\

4K XPR DLPs have very poor contrast.

The UHD50x has native contrast of 500:1 and 2000 maybe 3000:1 with dynamic lamp. The HC3800 has 1200:1 with 35 000 dynamic due to the iris.

The UHD50x can go up to ~1700 lumens on regular modes and the HC3800 can do 2000-2200 on regular modes. Not sure about Optoma's models, but I believe these models's color lumens is the same as white lumens, so also 1700.

The UHD50x is primarily a gaming projector, the Epson is a general purpose projector for non treated rooms.

Not sure if your wall is causing issues.


However OP's planned use is 50% sports, 30% movies, and 20% games. For sports and games it's not really required an accurate projector. This favors DLP, and the UHD50x has low lag for gaming.

What he could do is get a cheap 1080p DLP projector for sports and games, and a 5050UB for movies. The 5050UB could also be used for gaming.

If he starts watching movies and likes it the proportion could increase, but if half is sports DLP has priority.
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post #22 of 42 Old 05-19-2020, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapani View Post
Agreed and good point yes it's only the 4000 series that has the limitation

Neither of the projectors seem to have a problem with lens quality. Both have proven now to me that they can resolve a 150" screen and they both handedly max out their zooms and can still resolve just fine.


I'm still on the 3LCD boat personally.
Now that I have both mounted on the same screen, I'm seeing that even though the Optoma's lumen output beats the epson on paper, in real life the whole talk about people's colors getting washed out is starting to make sense.

During the day, the Optoma just isn't quite as bright as the Epson and the colors can't pump the lumen output. Contrast is good but the picture looks like my Epson on Eco mode even though the Optoma is going as hard as it can go
At night, then I find out how much work the Optoma had to do to match the Epson during the day.
I watched Star Wars - Rise of Skywalker and I was so disappointed

Several scenes to note and maybe someone can help me tune my 50x colors
1. 50x's yellow looks like mustard. What in the F**k? The red looked like wine but I figured out how to tune that up and blue a bit too. Even the title of the movie came out tinted too orange in spectra
2. The contrast sucks. Why does my contrast suck so hard? I can't even get a 2006 monster ISF DVD to show me the black contrast X so I can ISF tune this machine? The Epson tuned to this just fine and it actually helped. I know it's not a modern disk but wow it should pass something from 2006 with flying colors. Darks are washed out and so are whites from the very get go
3. The HDR I don't think is real and Red/Blue just didn't pop. There were scenes with R2D2, 3PO, where their lights look like red and blue jolly ranchers on the Epson. Looks like red or blue from a low contrast TV on the Optoma. Where is the color punch?

It ruined Lando for me too which I was most upset about. On the Epson, you can see his age and wisdom spots and his light skinned complexion came out perfectly. It made the moment where he showed up memorable.. The Optoma had him come out like Trump wearing orange paint. His skin was stained by the mustard yellow which I still can't understand why that specific color is so much off compared to the Epson.

I feel like if I can fix the yellow I might improve the PQ quite a bit

I'm on a white wall too that I painted with high gain satin paint myself so I'm not getting interference? Same wall now for both machines but one has a weird Yellow. Will try to get a side by side since I have them both up now.
There are going to be colour differences between these and a high gain satin paint (lower gain grey would be better) is not going to be ideal for the UHD50X. In time, the Epson will dim faster because of the shorter bulb life, especially if you use Dynamic black on the Optoma, which is often actually a bit brighter than high lamp for HDR.

The UHD50X has a lot of different settings for HDR (HDR Dynamic range and different gamma and then advanced color options) and colour but in a high ambient light setting it's unlikely to fully match the Epson in that regard.

Last edited by DunMunro; 05-19-2020 at 11:10 AM.
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post #23 of 42 Old 05-19-2020, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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So it would sound that you are liking the Epson 3800 quite a bit more than the UHD50X.

I would take the 4010 being the 5050 without the blacks if it ONLY had that simple 18Gb/s port.. it would make this so much easier for me as it seems like the Epson quality is superior to that of the Optoma. If it isn’t going to come down in price, I think this conversation may have shifted to the 4010 vs 3800 for me.

The projector will be ceiling mounted for me. I guess the problem is that I’m always going to have to take from one area to give to another as far as features l. I want something that is good at everything, but might not be possible at my budget. I know I will be mostly watching sports, but I honestly would rather the movies look better than sports when we get the whole family down there. I would take “the bullet” of slightly less performance in the sports department to have a great viewing experience with the kids if that makes sense?

Like I said.. if that 4010 just had the 18gbs port I wouldn’t have any issues.. the reviews just seem to be so good everywhere for the 4010.
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post #24 of 42 Old 05-19-2020, 10:43 AM
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So it would sound that you are liking the Epson 3800 quite a bit more than the UHD50X.

I would take the 4010 being the 5050 without the blacks if it ONLY had that simple 18Gb/s port.. it would make this so much easier for me as it seems like the Epson quality is superior to that of the Optoma. If it isn’t going to come down in price, I think this conversation may have shifted to the 4010 vs 3800 for me.

The projector will be ceiling mounted for me. I guess the problem is that I’m always going to have to take from one area to give to another as far as features l. I want something that is good at everything, but might not be possible at my budget. I know I will be mostly watching sports, but I honestly would rather the movies look better than sports when we get the whole family down there. I would take “the bullet” of slightly less performance in the sports department to have a great viewing experience with the kids if that makes sense?

Like I said.. if that 4010 just had the 18gbs port I wouldn’t have any issues.. the reviews just seem to be so good everywhere for the 4010.
If you're going to spend the money on the HC3800 better add something and get the 5050.

As I mentioned, treating the room and painting the wall/screen will improve things further.
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post #25 of 42 Old 05-19-2020, 11:18 AM
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\


The UHD50x has native contrast of 500:1 and 2000 maybe 3000:1 with dynamic lamp. The HC3800 has 1200:1 with 35 000 dynamic due to the iris.

Have you read a test report on this projector? I can't find any test reports on it, and I don't have access to one to measure it.

I've read a number of reports on various Optoma projectors with the .47in XPR and the range of measurements runs from about 500-1 to over 1000-1. Reports on other brand .47in XPR projectors with a RGBWRGBW colour wheel show a similar range of contrast measurements.

Last edited by DunMunro; 05-19-2020 at 11:23 AM.
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post #26 of 42 Old 05-19-2020, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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That’s the issue with pricing for me, especially in Canada..

Epson 4010 I got for $1700 ( Regular $2600 ).

Epson 3800 is $1900.

Epson 5050UB is $4000.

I just don’t know if I can justify more than double the price for it.. that’s pretty significant.
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post #27 of 42 Old 05-19-2020, 01:12 PM
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That’s the issue with pricing for me, especially in Canada..

Epson 4010 I got for $1700 ( Regular $2600 ).

Epson 3800 is $1900.

Epson 5050UB is $4000.

I just don’t know if I can justify more than double the price for it.. that’s pretty significant.

It would be worth it for me if I could decide again, FWIW.

CAD to US... I got mine for $1500 US and that was on sale. Best buy had it for 1700 so make sure you are price tracking it and get your discount.
It made my purchase worth it but IMO the 4010 might be getting discounted because of the 30hz thing

My current plan is to test this for a few more days and figure out if I want a dual setup or not.
Some of the guys make a good point about bulbs. You need to consider that it will happen no matter what you do and it will cost over $200 for a new one, plus they didn't mention the HEPA filter, which you also need on the Epson. Both eventually have to be changed if you want it to perform like the bentley it is. Requires white glove service.

That idea another user brought up about you having a dual setup with maybe a 1080P DLP or something else -cheaper- that can be left on all the time. I may end up going down that road

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post #28 of 42 Old 05-19-2020, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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You would save up the extra for the 5050 if you had a second chance?
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post #29 of 42 Old 05-19-2020, 03:12 PM
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The UHD30 (= UHD50X minus lens shift and shorter zoom ratio) is somewhat cheaper than the UHD50X. It's certainly still more than a 1080P projector.
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post #30 of 42 Old 05-19-2020, 04:41 PM
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You would save up the extra for the 5050 if you had a second chance?
For sure. Let me attach some movie photos for you from the 3800 and if you could INCREASE the contrast from what I'm showing you then holy heck

Remember though for super fast motion like you want on sports, this equation is going to change.

What they say about the motion processing is somewhat true and the Epson you will have to trade some quality if you want to keep the fluid smooth

This is an example of what you could have happen:

I haven't personally noticed it yet although I also haven't run a test like this..
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