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post #1 of 60 Old 06-29-2020, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Best 3D Projector: DLP vs Epson vs JVC

Hi,

What're the best 3D projectors? If it will be used for 3D 99% of the time?

I have 2.8-2.9M throw distance projecting onto an ALR draper react screen need around 95'' image.

I have a 77'' OLED for 2D content.
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post #2 of 60 Old 06-29-2020, 11:09 AM
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updated june 28th 2020

https://www.projectorcentral.com/top-3d-projectors.htm

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post #3 of 60 Old 06-29-2020, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by aoaaron View Post
Hi,

What're the best 3D projectors? If it will be used for 3D 99% of the time?

I have 2.8-2.9M throw distance projecting onto an ALR draper react screen need around 95'' image.

I have a 77'' OLED for 2D content.
I'd suggest that the HZ39HDR/ZH403, GT1090HDR or a ZH406 are probably going to be best for 3D because these are very bright DLP laser projectors, with very low cross talk, characteristic of DLP. They also will accept a 4K HDR signal and will downscale it to 1080P HDR for best possible 1080P performance. Of course 3D is 1080P only.
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post #4 of 60 Old 06-29-2020, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
I'd suggest that the HZ39HDR/ZH403, GT1090HDR or a ZH406 are probably going to be best for 3D because these are very bright DLP laser projectors, with very low cross talk, characteristic of DLP. They also will accept a 4K HDR signal and will downscale it to 1080P HDR for best possible 1080P performance. Of course 3D is 1080P only.

Thank you. Is there a date set for any of these models?

Any suggested models for cheaper? What about the optoma darbees?
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post #5 of 60 Old 06-29-2020, 12:16 PM
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Thank you. Is there a date set for any of these models?

Any suggested models for cheaper? What about the optoma darbees?
These projectors are all available now. I can't speak to the Darbee models, but the laser projectors should be considerably brighter. I would look at the GT1080HDR, HD28HDR and HD39HDR for lower cost bulb based projectors.
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post #6 of 60 Old 06-29-2020, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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These projectors are all available now. I can't speak to the Darbee models, but the laser projectors should be considerably brighter. I would look at the GT1080HDR, HD28HDR and HD39HDR for lower cost bulb based projectors.
Thank you. Whats the price for those? I'm trying to stick around an £800 budget which is probably a bit tough.

£400 for my HW40ES and £400 for the consoles I'll trade in to CEX>
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post #7 of 60 Old 06-29-2020, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
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That list seems a bit weird., like lists older models but not HD152X
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post #8 of 60 Old 06-29-2020, 05:12 PM
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Out of your budget but for that screen and screen size a sim2 m120 or m150 would probably be the best 3d image you can get. 2 sales ive seen revently were 2500 with 11k hours and 3500 for 600 hours. Theyre limited to around 600 lumens, the person with 11k hours reported 550 lumens so they lose very little light output over time.

The dmd, lens, and rgb leds provide incredible dimensionality with just 2d content, for 3d it should be the best.

Also probably a bit high but something to keep an eye on is a runco d73d. Same dmd and leds, not quite as nice of lenses though. The stack will do around 800-900 lumens.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/383546083970

A Wolf Cinema SDC-18 or Optoma HD91 are rgb led with the 0.67" dmd and around 600 lumens.

The Panasonic PT-RZ470 or 475 is an rgb led/laser hybrid that should hit around 900 lumens calibrated.

I suggest the rgb led dlp projectors because they have the best motion performance.

Could be prudent to keep an eye out for 3chip dlp as theyre much brighter, as well as ultra bright dci projectors, though those will caution high power usage, heat output, and fan noise.
Ah... runco ls12, lumis 3d... more expensive though... 2-3k

Next I would focus on high brightness and single chip dlp

Hard to find but Barco/PD F35 AS3d or Digital Projection dVision 35 3d's will provide a bright sharp 3d image.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/163164277310
Though the may not support frame packing...

The Viewosnic LS750 and 850 are very bright dlp color wheel laser projectors. This is a good option due to the high brightness but lower power usage and heat output due to the lasers efficiency.

If youre not after the least crosstalk and smoothest motion, consider old JVC projectors starting with the x500 for best contrast 3d, try to avoid older than that due to brightness
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post #9 of 60 Old 07-01-2020, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Out of your budget but for that screen and screen size a sim2 m120 or m150 would probably be the best 3d image you can get. 2 sales ive seen revently were 2500 with 11k hours and 3500 for 600 hours. Theyre limited to around 600 lumens, the person with 11k hours reported 550 lumens so they lose very little light output over time.

The dmd, lens, and rgb leds provide incredible dimensionality with just 2d content, for 3d it should be the best.

Also probably a bit high but something to keep an eye on is a runco d73d. Same dmd and leds, not quite as nice of lenses though. The stack will do around 800-900 lumens.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/383546083970

A Wolf Cinema SDC-18 or Optoma HD91 are rgb led with the 0.67" dmd and around 600 lumens.

The Panasonic PT-RZ470 or 475 is an rgb led/laser hybrid that should hit around 900 lumens calibrated.

I suggest the rgb led dlp projectors because they have the best motion performance.

Could be prudent to keep an eye out for 3chip dlp as theyre much brighter, as well as ultra bright dci projectors, though those will caution high power usage, heat output, and fan noise.
Ah... runco ls12, lumis 3d... more expensive though... 2-3k

Next I would focus on high brightness and single chip dlp

Hard to find but Barco/PD F35 AS3d or Digital Projection dVision 35 3d's will provide a bright sharp 3d image.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/163164277310
Though the may not support frame packing...

The Viewosnic LS750 and 850 are very bright dlp color wheel laser projectors. This is a good option due to the high brightness but lower power usage and heat output due to the lasers efficiency.

If youre not after the least crosstalk and smoothest motion, consider old JVC projectors starting with the x500 for best contrast 3d, try to avoid older than that due to brightness

I only need something cheap <£600 for 3D Blurays.

I was told DLP like optomoa are best for 3D because they have crazy lumen output. I'm using a draper react 3.0 screen so I'm not sure if older PJs will do well, e.g. epson 6050ub coped with the react ALR screen but my HW40es got eaten for breakfast with it.

I'll use 77'' LG OLED for anything 2D.

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post #10 of 60 Old 07-01-2020, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aoaaron View Post
I only need something cheap <£600 for 3D Blurays. I was told DLP like optomoa are best for 3D because they have crazy lumen output. I'm using a draper react 3.0 screen so I'm not sure if older PJs will do well, e.g. epson 6050ub coped with the react ALR screen but my HW40es got eaten for breakfast with it. I'll use 77'' LG OLED for anything 2D.
There are a couple negative aspects to these high brightness budget DLP projectors. First the high brightness is only with white lumens, color lumens could be as low as 30% of white, making for a less vibrant image, and often not at calibrated settings, i.e. d6500k color temperature and bt709 gamut. And when you calibrate it to comparable color lumens you lose 50-70% of the light output. Ideally with 3d you want at least 30fl, with your screen size and gain that would be around 800 lumens. I've found up to 50-60fl is still comfortable with 3d due to the reduced brightness when using 3d and the reduced brightness by the 3d glasses. That would be up to 1200-1400 lumens on the React. So 3000 lumens isn't really necessary, and low color lumens makes for a less appealing image. Even those Viewsonic lasers that quote 5000 lumens are closer to 2000-3000 lumens and at best 50% color brightness.

Second, while color wheel DLP has less crosstalk and better motion than LCD, compared to rgb sequential solid state(red green and blue leds/lasers), the use of a color wheel introduces a flicker, as the DMD shuts off between color wheel segments. This reduces motion persistance, as DLP by design already functions as impulse rather than sample and hold. And third is a color tearing, or a rainbow effect, due to the sequential color. The rgb led/laser models offset this by using a color frequency 3x faster than the color wheel models.

So in order of best crosstalk/motion performance:
RGB DLP / 3-Chip DLP
RGBRGB Color Wheel DLP
LCOS
LCD

Despite the much better contrast of LCOS, I still preferred DLPs motion ability for 3D, it just made the content easier to watch and more dimensional, and offset the higher black floor in low APL scenes.

I couldn't say for sure what light output you were using on the Epson and Sony. The Epson ranges from 1000 to 2000 lumens with a new bulb, and bulbs typically lose 20% of their brightness in the first couple hundred hours. The Sony was 600 to 1400 lumens. And the lower light output are the calibrated settings.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-p...IAAOSwtzle-q17
This is a pretty cool projector for 3d if you don't have a very large screen, best motion performance being RGB led/laser with no color wheel, and having around 900 calibrated lumens. 100% color brightness, and I believe even the brighter modes are 80% color lumens. Pretty sure it has a dynamic dimming for better contrast in low APL scenes. No bulbs to change, it won't reduce in brightness in short amounts of time. The only concern then being light output. If you do prefer 50fl over 30fl, then light output may be too low calibrated.
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post #11 of 60 Old 07-01-2020, 11:36 AM
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Also, keep an eye out for Runco SC-XX(30, 35, 50, 60), Runco X-400d and X-450d, Runco LS-12d Digital Projection Highlite 330 3D, Digital Projection Highlite 660 3D. These 3-chip DLP projectors will have the best motion, the best color performance, and high brightness 1500(low lamp) to 2500 lumens as well. They're not easy to find, but these are the best 3D projectors outside of ultra bright 3chip dci machines, which require dedicated projection rooms ;] Sometimes you'll see them pop up for at or under $1,000 usd. There is additional caution though, the Runcos are gigantic, and throw range could be a concern, so pay close attention to the included lenses.

Since you found the Sony to be too dim I may caution against the JVCs, the older more affordable models don't output a ton of light, and the Panasonic would probably be a better option. If you can elaborate on the epsons settings and light output maybe we can better advise on models with comparable brightness.
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post #12 of 60 Old 07-01-2020, 12:49 PM
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I'd also be cautious of using laser projectors on the React. That might speckle.

A little complicated as well, but Digital Projection E-Vision 6800 and 7500 would be something to consider if you can find them. These are dual lamp units that can get very bright, but when using two lamps can use 1kw of power and dump 3500 btu/hr heat. With a single lamp though they can still get good brightness and color brightness for the units with the RGBCYM color wheel(the stock option however is RGBW(6800) or RGBCWB(7500) which will have lower color lumens). But again, larger, heavier, projectors with higher fan noise.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Pro...8AAOSw9MheuXTl
This though, uses a RYGWB wheel and will not be able to get equal color brightness like the Viewsonic/BenQ lasers. 100% color brightness is just one of the first boxes to check off, but if you cant this would be the next option

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post #13 of 60 Old 07-01-2020, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aoaaron View Post
I only need something cheap <£600 for 3D Blurays.

I was told DLP like optomoa are best for 3D because they have crazy lumen output. I'm using a draper react 3.0 screen so I'm not sure if older PJs will do well, e.g. epson 6050ub coped with the react ALR screen but my HW40es got eaten for breakfast with it.

I'll use 77'' LG OLED for anything 2D.
I'd try something like the HD27HDR; buy from a source with a good return policy so if it doesn't meet your needs, you can return it. In your price range, you'll have to make some compromises. The Viewsonic 725HD has been recommended by others in the past.
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post #14 of 60 Old 07-01-2020, 01:13 PM
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I would also like to know the best 3D projector for under $3000 is currently. I'm tempted to order the Optoma HD39Darbee and compare it against my Epson 5050ub.... hopefully someone has compared these two before? I have tried the Optoma HD146X before I didn't like it and that supposedly has 3600 lumens which is higher than the HD39Darbee... if these two are about the same, then maybe it is not woth it?

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post #15 of 60 Old 07-01-2020, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
I'd try something like the HD27HDR; buy from a source with a good return policy so if it doesn't meet your needs, you can return it. In your price range, you'll have to make some compromises. The Viewsonic 725HD has been recommended by others in the past.
The HD267HDR has a RYGCWB wheel so won't be able to achieve 100% color brightness. The 725HD has a RGBRGB wheel, but won't be able to get as bright. I'll run through some bulb projectors and see what's cheaper that has an RGBRGB/RGBCYM wheel and can get some extra brightness. If the Epson was putting out the necessary brightness than it sounds like these budget DLPs may not cut it, the React may have a gain of 1.0, but it's half gain is 30°

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post #16 of 60 Old 07-01-2020, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by cky2354 View Post
I would also like to know the best 3D projector for under $3000 is currently. I'm tempted to order the Optoma HD39Darbee and compare it against my Epson 5050ub.... hopefully someone has compared these two before? I have tried the Optoma HD146X before I didn't like it and that supposedly has 3600 lumens which is higher than the HD39Darbee... if these two are about the same, then maybe it is not woth it?
Screen size and material?
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post #17 of 60 Old 07-01-2020, 01:20 PM
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To clarify, the Epsons put out about 2000 lumens in 3d, and that can drop to around 1000 calibrated? And that's a high lamp mode?

Call me Zen.
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post #18 of 60 Old 07-01-2020, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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There are a couple negative aspects to these high brightness budget DLP projectors. First the high brightness is only with white lumens, color lumens could be as low as 30% of white, making for a less vibrant image, and often not at calibrated settings, i.e. d6500k color temperature and bt709 gamut. And when you calibrate it to comparable color lumens you lose 50-70% of the light output. Ideally with 3d you want at least 30fl, with your screen size and gain that would be around 800 lumens. I've found up to 50-60fl is still comfortable with 3d due to the reduced brightness when using 3d and the reduced brightness by the 3d glasses. That would be up to 1200-1400 lumens on the React. So 3000 lumens isn't really necessary, and low color lumens makes for a less appealing image. Even those Viewsonic lasers that quote 5000 lumens are closer to 2000-3000 lumens and at best 50% color brightness.

Second, while color wheel DLP has less crosstalk and better motion than LCD, compared to rgb sequential solid state(red green and blue leds/lasers), the use of a color wheel introduces a flicker, as the DMD shuts off between color wheel segments. This reduces motion persistance, as DLP by design already functions as impulse rather than sample and hold. And third is a color tearing, or a rainbow effect, due to the sequential color. The rgb led/laser models offset this by using a color frequency 3x faster than the color wheel models.

So in order of best crosstalk/motion performance:
RGB DLP / 3-Chip DLP
RGBRGB Color Wheel DLP
LCOS
LCD

Despite the much better contrast of LCOS, I still preferred DLPs motion ability for 3D, it just made the content easier to watch and more dimensional, and offset the higher black floor in low APL scenes.

I couldn't say for sure what light output you were using on the Epson and Sony. The Epson ranges from 1000 to 2000 lumens with a new bulb, and bulbs typically lose 20% of their brightness in the first couple hundred hours. The Sony was 600 to 1400 lumens. And the lower light output are the calibrated settings.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-p...IAAOSwtzle-q17
This is a pretty cool projector for 3d if you don't have a very large screen, best motion performance being RGB led/laser with no color wheel, and having around 900 calibrated lumens. 100% color brightness, and I believe even the brighter modes are 80% color lumens. Pretty sure it has a dynamic dimming for better contrast in low APL scenes. No bulbs to change, it won't reduce in brightness in short amounts of time. The only concern then being light output. If you do prefer 50fl over 30fl, then light output may be too low calibrated.

Your post was very informative but a lot of those models don't seem readily available in the UK at a half decent price.

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I have a totally light controlled dedicated HT with 150" scope screen. I did not try the Optoma in my home theater because it was still in process at the time. I'm really tempted to order the HD39Darbee if someone thinks this will surpass the Epson 5050ub in 3D performance and give it a try and see it for myself.
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Your post was very informative but a lot of those models don't seem readily available in the UK at a half decent price.
Gotcha, Ill take a look at the UK used markets

For the Epson, did you have it calibrated? Or just set to one of the 3d modes stock settings?
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post #21 of 60 Old 07-01-2020, 01:33 PM
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I would also like to know the best 3D projector for under $3000 is currently. I'm tempted to order the Optoma HD39Darbee and compare it against my Epson 5050ub.... hopefully someone has compared these two before? I have tried the Optoma HD146X before I didn't like it and that supposedly has 3600 lumens which is higher than the HD39Darbee... if these two are about the same, then maybe it is not woth it?
I would try an Optoma laser, HZ39HDR, ZH406, or ZU506. You need to look at lumens in cinema mode, which is a reasonable guide to 3D ouput. A high output DLP laser with a .65in DMD is probably going to be the best available.
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Looks like Vivitek has some higher lumen models. Im not sure which color wheel is in these though.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174096244254

Vivitek D5190, D5380, DH3331, DH833. sometimes these have user swappable color wheels as well, so if you can find a rgbrgb or rgbcym wheel you can swap it out and change the setting in the projector.

But basically looking for projectors with 350-450w lamps, compared to the budget projectors that use 200-300w lamps.

Id also note the low brightness uniformity is not a good trait with the React. That lower uniformity is common with the budget projectors, often around 50-60 uniformity. And between that, the Reacts half gain, and a short throw ratio, thats really going to accentuate hotspotting and uniformity issues. Another interesting bonus of the rgb led/laser(laser without phospor though) projectors is they seem to sparkle/speckle less with alr screens compared to uhp and laser/phosphor.
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There are different versions of these projectors, some are 16:9, some are 16:10. Ill try to list a few so you can search your area. Sometimes classifieds might be beneficial as these are often used in schools, businesses, and religious facilities. And alot of these are essentially the same projector but with a different case.

BenQ SU753, SU754, SU765
Optoma EH515, WU615, WU465, WU515, WH5050, EH460
Wolf Cinema Pro-115, Pro-415
Acer P6500, P7505
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post #24 of 60 Old 07-01-2020, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Gotcha, Ill take a look at the UK used markets

For the Epson, did you have it calibrated? Or just set to one of the 3d modes stock settings?
Hey, 3D stock modes.


I didn't bother with 3D calibration. ITs a messy format with so many confounding factors. Aslong as its bright and has a decent contrast, I'm fairly happy for 3D.

Hmmmm

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post #25 of 60 Old 07-01-2020, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by aoaaron View Post
Hey, 3D stock modes. I didn't bother with 3D calibration. ITs a messy format with so many confounding factors. Aslong as its bright and has a decent contrast, I'm fairly happy for 3D. Hmmmm
Thats whats impressive about the Epsons, very bright, with 100% color brightness, and decent contrast. Even if the color temperature or gamut is off the color brightness provides vibrancy. For color wheel DLP you need a higher wattage bulb to get comparable brightness with 100% color brightness. But where the Epson drops from 2000 to 1000 lumens when calibrated, the rgbrgb or rgbcym dlp will be closer to d65bt709 natively and wont lose as much light when calibrated.

Might want to read the 3d review of the ht9060, a rgb led projector, if you ever come across an affordable used model. That will get you the 1500 calibrated lumens and best motion performance.
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Ben...tor-Review.htm
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post #26 of 60 Old 07-02-2020, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bdht View Post
Thats whats impressive about the Epsons, very bright, with 100% color brightness, and decent contrast. Even if the color temperature or gamut is off the color brightness provides vibrancy. For color wheel DLP you need a higher wattage bulb to get comparable brightness with 100% color brightness. But where the Epson drops from 2000 to 1000 lumens when calibrated, the rgbrgb or rgbcym dlp will be closer to d65bt709 natively and wont lose as much light when calibrated.

Might want to read the 3d review of the ht9060, a rgb led projector, if you ever come across an affordable used model. That will get you the 1500 calibrated lumens and best motion performance.
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Ben...tor-Review.htm


I don't want to spend 8999 for a dedicated 3D projector.

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post #27 of 60 Old 07-02-2020, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by aoaaron View Post
I don't want to spend 8999 for a dedicated 3D projector.
Ya I hear ya, but half a year ago I was seeing used ones go for under 3, so you never know. msrps are usually absurd and twice the dealer prices, and used prices can be half the dealer prices. and then if a new model comes out they halve in price again xD
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post #28 of 60 Old 07-02-2020, 09:47 AM
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Also my mentioning the ht9060 and specifically that review is to support the notion that rgb led/laser dlp with a good lens provides the best motion and dimensionality
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post #29 of 60 Old 07-02-2020, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by cky2354 View Post
I have a totally light controlled dedicated HT with 150" scope screen. I did not try the Optoma in my home theater because it was still in process at the time. I'm really tempted to order the HD39Darbee if someone thinks this will surpass the Epson 5050ub in 3D performance and give it a try and see it for myself.
Funny as I've been considering a 5050UB for 3D over my current BenQ HT3550 given the extra brightness. But, my previous experience w/5040 scares me as it had awful crosstalk and ghosting.

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post #30 of 60 Old 07-02-2020, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post
But, my previous experience w/5040 scares me as it had awful crosstalk and ghosting.
Until theres some massive technological breakthrough with liquid crystal modulation that won't change.
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