AE900 Tweak thread. - Page 29 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #841 of 1450 Old 03-11-2006, 10:20 AM
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Ok, in that case a followup question: How large an image can a Panny 900 throw in the 2.35:1 aspect ratio before things start to go...poorly...??

Like a Carada grey screen thats 120" diagonal lets say...thats probably doable right?
In order to get a 100" diagonal 16:9 screen in the center of a 2.35:1 screen, how large
would that 2.35:1 screen actually have to be...???>

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post #842 of 1450 Old 03-11-2006, 10:25 AM
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Yes. You can just zoom the lens in or out ( but you also need shift the lens1/4" up or down as well) when you go from 2.35:1 to 16x9. It's not difficult and the Panny looks nice- this is poor man's constant height folks are talking about. This is what I do now. If you buy one of these fancy lenses, you don't have to fiddle with the projector (as much I'm guessing).

Thing is I'm trying to locate a used or B stock vertical compression lens (I think this is probably better for my set up vs. horizontal expansoin type), but I'm having trouble. What are the options for vertical compression lenses and what company sells for good price? It looks like the ISCO and Panamorph are only horizontal expansion type. is that correct?
-Don
-Don
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post #843 of 1450 Old 03-11-2006, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomcreek View Post

Thing is I'm trying to locate a used or B stock vertical compression lens (I think this is probably better for my set up vs. horizontal expansoin type), but I'm having trouble.

Could be a result of what Shawn or Ted was saying; once you have a lens, you can (and WILL!) use it on subsequent projectors. Not many used ones go on the market.

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post #844 of 1450 Old 03-11-2006, 10:39 AM
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HR- Also, the 2.35:1 on my set up 150" neutral grey screen with the 81C filter and dynamic mode, oppo DVD player looks great with a good quality transfer DVD. I think the 16x9 picture ends op being about 110". HD stuff off of Dish Network looks awesome in at 110" in 16x9. I have some DVD that are lousy transfers and these don't look so good projectred out to 150". As far as the anamorphic lenses go, I'm just trying to figure out if I can tweak this setup any more and get my DVD player to something closer to what Dish Network HD looks like. Problem is finding a good quality (vertical compression) anamorphic lens that doesn't cost as much as the projectror. -Don
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post #845 of 1450 Old 03-11-2006, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomcreek View Post

As far as the anamorphic lenses go, I'm just trying to figure out if I can tweak this setup any more and get my DVD player to something closer to what Dish Network HD looks like. Problem is finding a good quality (vertical compression) anamorphic lens that doesn't cost as much as the projectror.

Closer perhaps, but standard definition sources will never look as good as true hi-def material. The resoluition just isn't there.

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post #846 of 1450 Old 03-11-2006, 04:36 PM
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" It looks like the ISCO and Panamorph are only horizontal expansion type. is that correct?"

ISCO is horizontal expansion. Panamorph traditionally was vertical compression but they recently also added a horizontal expansion lens to their offerings. Prismasonic is another company that sells anamorphics lenses too. They originally had both types but now I think they just sell the horizontal expansion.

Shawn
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post #847 of 1450 Old 03-11-2006, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomcreek View Post

HR- Also, the 2.35:1 on my set up 150" neutral grey screen with the 81C filter and dynamic mode, -Don

Yes, but you are obviously a nut.
Don, my big concern with an image of that size will be the Ft Lamberts coming off that screen as the bulb hits a few hundred hrs and has lost 30% of its Lumens.

I utilize an 81EF on my 700, so I've a good sense of the utility of CC filters for calibration and CR enhancement. When I bought my 700 I knew that I would be purchasing an anamorphic lens but was going to live with zooming until the dollars flew in the window. After about 200 hrs on the lamp, it had lost about an F-Stop, so to maintain some brightness in 2.35 situations (and keep my filter), the window magically opened wider and a lens came in.

btw, why do you feel vertical squeeze is better in your situation as I personally fell a Horizontal stretch is easier to implement?

Apologies folks, I will endeavour to make this the last Off Topic question.

ted
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post #848 of 1450 Old 03-12-2006, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSRC View Post

You can access the service menu the same way as with the AE700 (highlight OSD and push and hold down the select button), but it only gives you some flicker and panel adjust options. For advanced color control, you need calibration equipment and then use the CCM functions.


I didn't see this posted but there is another service menu that is entered by the super secret key sequence: "POWER" then select "cancel" then UP arriw, DOWN arrow, UP arrow, DOWN arrow and then ENTER.


From here you can access the self check menu where the lamp reset counter resides. Some other stuff as well.
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post #849 of 1450 Old 03-12-2006, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz_24_7 View Post

I didn't see this posted but there is another service menu that is entered by the super secret key sequence: "POWER" then select "cancel" then UP arriw, DOWN arrow, UP arrow, DOWN arrow and then ENTER.


From here you can access the self check menu where the lamp reset counter resides. Some other stuff as well.

That's interesting. Are the convergence patterns in there as well?

ted
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post #850 of 1450 Old 03-12-2006, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz_24_7 View Post

I didn't see this posted but there is another service menu that is entered by the super secret key sequence: "POWER" then select "cancel" then UP arriw, DOWN arrow, UP arrow, DOWN arrow and then ENTER.


From here you can access the self check menu where the lamp reset counter resides. Some other stuff as well.

This sequence doesn't work on my unit.
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post #851 of 1450 Old 03-12-2006, 11:47 AM
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Quote:


Wait waitwaitwait..are you saying you can do a 2.35:1 screen WITHOUT using a panamorph lens just by adjusting the zoom??

Sure thing...that's what I'm doing now with the ample zoom and lens shift. I've got a Panamorph 752 that's not being used since I haven't invested in a scaler yet (seeing how HD- DVD, etc. shapes up). Smoothscreen makes this zooming possible without the SDE you might expect from larger pixels, I'm ~10' away from a 7' wide screen and there's nothing in the way of pixels or SDE...nada. I have tried the Panamorph with the 900, and it works fine (aside from being squished w/o a scaler). There's not nearly the improvement I saw when installing it in front of my 4805, though. And, of course, I've got full source resolution for all sources this way.
The black bars that are pushed above and below the screen when zoomed this way just disappear into the velvet curtains I have above the screen and the dark wall below.

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post #852 of 1450 Old 03-12-2006, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvted View Post

That's interesting. Are the convergence patterns in there as well?

ted


No (at least I did'nt see it) and ther isn't a panel adjust either. I think the only thing useful is probably the additional items on the self check page which looks more like the AE700 page.

It's interesting that the service manual makes no mention of getting to the other nenu via the OSD . I wonder what else lurks inside the PJ.

Here is the text from the service manual on this menu.

2 Ext Option
This projector has EXT OPTION in addition to standard on-screen menus.
There are SELF CHECK and FLICKER ADJ for service, etc.
2.1. Procedure to enter EXT OPTION
1. When the projector is power ON, press "POWER" button on the main unit or remote control unit to display "POWER OFF" confirmation screen.
2. Press the right-arrow" "button to select "CANCEL" in the "POWER OFF" confirmation screen.
3. On the main unit or remote control unit, press the buttons in order of up-arrow" ",down-arrow" ", up-arrow"
down-arrow" "and "ENTER".
(When the "ENTER" button is pressed, "EXT OPTION" menu is displayed.)
2.2. EXT OPTION Menu and Functions

FAN FULLMODE
Setting the cooling fan motor rotation speed
- Switching ON "FAN FULLMODE", the rotation level of the fan becomes high-speed rotation (fixed). Moreover, when "FAN FULLMODE" is ON, changing "FAN CONTROL" in OPTION becomes impossible (setting FAN FULLMODE is given priority more than FAN CONTROL).
AUTO SETUP
Setting AUTO SETUP mode
- NORMAL: To set the normal mode (the dot clock is adjusted strictly)
- SPECIAL: To set the special mode (the dot clock is adjusted roughly)
* Do not change the initial setting (NORMAL).
SELF CHECK
To enter the self-check mode
FLICKER ADJ
To enter the flicker adjustment mode
525i SD
When non-standard signal of 525i/625i is inputted (AV amplifier, etc.), synchronization might be disordered according to connected equipment. In this case, set 525i SD to ON.
525p OS
When 525p/625p signal is inputted, reflection noise (vertical striated beat) might be generated according to connected equipment. In this case, set 525p OS to ON. However, the resolution decreases a little.
HPLL
When non-standard signal of VIDEO/S-VIDEO is inputted (VCR, VHD, etc.), horizontal synchronization might be disordered according to connected equipment. In this case, set HPLL to OFF.
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post #853 of 1450 Old 03-12-2006, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbawilly View Post

This sequence doesn't work on my unit.

Firmware? I'll lcheck my PJ tonight and see what it is.
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post #854 of 1450 Old 03-13-2006, 07:08 AM
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My AE900 has MM: 1.04 F:1.02 and IM:1.01
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post #855 of 1450 Old 03-13-2006, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz_24_7 View Post

My AE900 has MM: 1.04 F:1.02 and IM:1.01

The firmware's not displayed in the service menu I can get to (the "OSD" one), so I have no idea what it is. When did you buy your AE900? What's the manufactured date? It is a U.S. model, right?

Enjoy!

Mike
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post #856 of 1450 Old 03-13-2006, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSRC View Post

The firmware's not displayed in the service menu I can get to (the "OSD" one), so I have no idea what it is. When did you buy your AE900? What's the manufactured date? It is a U.S. model, right?

So you are unable to get to the POWER/CANCEL menu that jazz refers to?

ted
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post #857 of 1450 Old 03-13-2006, 12:11 PM
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Ted- brightness is fine at 150" on my screen in light controlled room. Your probably right that if I loose 30% as the projector bulb ages that I'm not going to be happy with the brightness. Another plus for the anamorphic lens although there is always high lamp mode to use as well. Perhaps this is my naivete, but I thought that vertical squeeze had less potential for color abberations and visual artefacts than than horizontal expansion because you would be taking the image that the LCD projects and making it smaller. Horizontal expansion takes the pixels that the LCD displays and makes them bigger. I know both can work, but somewhere I read that optics required to to horizontal expansion well are much more expensive. Since i'm trying to maximize PQ on a budget, I was gavitating to the vertical compression technology.
Does anyone know the difference between a panamorph consumer lens U15 and the commercial lens U100? Is the the consumer lens junk or fine to us in my application? Or should I save and wiat for good buy on the U100? Why is everyone here going to horizontal expansion?-Don
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post #858 of 1450 Old 03-13-2006, 12:31 PM
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"Why is everyone here going to horizontal expansion?"

There are a couple of advantages to it IMO.

If you have an existing mounted projector and screen and move to CH then horizontal expansion is a lot easier if you go with a 2.35 screen that is the same height as what you had before. You don't need to alter the throw of the projector... you put the lens in front of it and the image will now basically already fill the CH screen with your existing throw distance and zoom setting.

With a vertical compression lens if you have enough zoom available you could deal with the new larger screen. If the range of the zoom isn't sufficient you would have to remout the projector further back.

In my case my original projector was a very long throw model. The only way to be able to project the 2.35 width screen I wanted with the throw range I had available was to use the horizontal expansion lens. In some settings this also gives a side benefit of having the projector closer to the 'wide' end of its zoom lens which in some projectors cases means more light through the lens.

In a CH setup where the lens is moved in/out of the optic path depending on the AR being show a horizontal expansion lens works easily there while vertical compression does not.

Shawn
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post #859 of 1450 Old 03-13-2006, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz_24_7 View Post

My AE900 has MM: 1.04 F:1.02 and IM:1.01

Where do you find this info?
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post #860 of 1450 Old 03-13-2006, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz_24_7 View Post

No (at least I did'nt see it) and ther isn't a panel adjust either. I think the only thing useful is probably the additional items on the self check page which looks more like the AE700 page.

It's interesting that the service manual makes no mention of getting to the other nenu via the OSD . I wonder what else lurks inside the PJ.

Here is the text from the service manual on this menu.

2 Ext Option
This projector has EXT OPTION in addition to standard on-screen menus.
There are SELF CHECK and FLICKER ADJ for service, etc.
2.1. Procedure to enter EXT OPTION
1. When the projector is power ON, press "POWER" button on the main unit or remote control unit to display "POWER OFF" confirmation screen.
2. Press the right-arrow" "button to select "CANCEL" in the "POWER OFF" confirmation screen.
3. On the main unit or remote control unit, press the buttons in order of up-arrow" ",down-arrow" ", up-arrow"
down-arrow" "and "ENTER".
(When the "ENTER" button is pressed, "EXT OPTION" menu is displayed.)
2.2. EXT OPTION Menu and Functions

FAN FULLMODE
Setting the cooling fan motor rotation speed
- Switching ON "FAN FULLMODE", the rotation level of the fan becomes high-speed rotation (fixed). Moreover, when "FAN FULLMODE" is ON, changing "FAN CONTROL" in OPTION becomes impossible (setting FAN FULLMODE is given priority more than FAN CONTROL).
AUTO SETUP
Setting AUTO SETUP mode
- NORMAL: To set the normal mode (the dot clock is adjusted strictly)
- SPECIAL: To set the special mode (the dot clock is adjusted roughly)
* Do not change the initial setting (NORMAL).
SELF CHECK
To enter the self-check mode
FLICKER ADJ
To enter the flicker adjustment mode
525i SD
When non-standard signal of 525i/625i is inputted (AV amplifier, etc.), synchronization might be disordered according to connected equipment. In this case, set 525i SD to ON.
525p OS
When 525p/625p signal is inputted, reflection noise (vertical striated beat) might be generated according to connected equipment. In this case, set 525p OS to ON. However, the resolution decreases a little.
HPLL
When non-standard signal of VIDEO/S-VIDEO is inputted (VCR, VHD, etc.), horizontal synchronization might be disordered according to connected equipment. In this case, set HPLL to OFF.

I got mine to work,
Same version as jazz. The self check menu show a lot of the same things as the 700 such as the number of times the PJ has been turned on .
The number of actual hours, and hours on low mode.

My iris' OK label is in RED.
This may be the reason it makes the imfamous howling sound

Wow thats strange.
I just checked it again, now the iris OK is no longer in RED.

Mike
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post #861 of 1450 Old 03-13-2006, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSRC View Post

The firmware's not displayed in the service menu I can get to (the "OSD" one), so I have no idea what it is. When did you buy your AE900? What's the manufactured date? It is a U.S. model, right?

Mine is Oct. 2005 manuf. date. U.S. version.
I got in to the new menu.

Mike
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post #862 of 1450 Old 03-13-2006, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSRC View Post

The firmware's not displayed in the service menu I can get to (the "OSD" one), so I have no idea what it is. When did you buy your AE900? What's the manufactured date? It is a U.S. model, right?

My PJ is a reletuvely recent one, I guess (where is the manufacture date?).

It was a replacement PJ from Heartland services I received last week.
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post #863 of 1450 Old 03-13-2006, 08:23 PM
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Here is a link to the AE900 service manual on my web page. It probably won't be there forever, its kinda' big (6+ MB) Happy reading.

http://members.cox.net/uggabugga/AE9...vicemanual.pdf
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post #864 of 1450 Old 03-13-2006, 08:42 PM
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Shawn- Thanks. This explains the key horizontal expansion lens advantage over vertical compression that i was missing. i.e. - that for constant height you just move the lens out of the light path and 16x9 image fits without any fiddling with the lens. This sounds slick, but I[m firstly concerned about PQ with ease of use a close second. After all I didn't go through all the trouble of tweaking the projector with 81C filter and gamma settings to ge tthe colors to look great only to loose some of this through another lens. - Forget the utility benefit you correctly pointed out above for the moment- Do you think the lower end horizontal expansion lenses provide the same PQ as vertical compression of the same quality range ? You do agree that purchase of something like an ISCOIII would be nuts for the AE 900, correct? Which specificd brand lens and model would you match with the the AE900? Much thanks for your obervations and objective opinion. -Don
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post #865 of 1450 Old 03-14-2006, 06:04 AM
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"- that for constant height you just move the lens out of the light path and 16x9 image fits without any fiddling with the lens."

You can move the lens away (for full resolution 1.78 viewing) but you don't have to. I leave the lens in place all the time for ease of use and just deal with it in my scaler. At some point I might build a motorized mount to move then lens in and out of the optical path and then setting up the appropriate memories in my scaler for the different output ARs to the projector.

"After all I didn't go through all the trouble of tweaking the projector with 81C filter and gamma settings to ge tthe colors to look great only to loose some of this through another lens."

I'm using an 81EF through my lens. You gain brightness on 2.35 movies, not loose brightness.

"Do you think the lower end horizontal expansion lenses provide the same PQ as vertical compression of the same quality range ?"

I haven't seen the vertical compression lenses in my system. I had an earlier Prismasonic H500 and the ISCO II is noticeably sharper then it was. The H500 also had more CA. The ISCO in turn has a touch more geometric distortion.

"You do agree that purchase of something like an ISCOIII would be nuts for the AE 900, correct?"

If you were planning on always using a CH setup and were planning on moving to a 1080p projector within a couple of years the ISCO III might not be totally nuts... just fairly obsessive. That lens is supposed to be so good and with such a large aperature it would be useable with most digital projectors. If you are planning on sticking with the AE900 for 10 years or something then the ISCO III likely doesn't make sense.

Shawn
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post #866 of 1450 Old 03-14-2006, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz_24_7 View Post

Here is a link to the AE900 service manual on my web page. It probably won't be there forever, its kinda' big (6+ MB) Happy reading.

http://members.cox.net/uggabugga/AE9...vicemanual.pdf

gracias

Josh
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post #867 of 1450 Old 03-14-2006, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvted View Post

So you are unable to get to the POWER/CANCEL menu that jazz refers to?

ted

That's correct, but looking at the service manual, using the OSD access takes me to a similar menu. I'll have to check and see what the differences are other than not displaying the firmware version in the "Self Check" part of the menu. For those who can access the service menu through Power/Cancel etc., does the OSD access work?

The manufactured date should be on the serial number nameplate on the bottom of the unit. Mine was from the first shipment from Japan, so that could be why it used the AE700 access.

Thanks for the service manual jazz.

Enjoy!

Mike
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post #868 of 1450 Old 03-15-2006, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the service manual. I have been on a trip to china and Hong Kong so it has been hard to get broadband in all places. I have downloaded it to my laptop. It is amazing to see some of the new gadgets and technonology. Many DVD players with 1080i and to see the China HD DVD system already out. I was tempted to pick up a new Skyworth player but it only had component our PC output. No DVI or HDMI. I would have loved to try it with the AE900. The best one cost about $150US.
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post #869 of 1450 Old 03-15-2006, 05:01 PM
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Regarding your trip to of China
did you see the new VMD /EVD format and Chinese LCD TV's they are making a lot of progress and beat the US, Japanese and Koreans at this game and produce a product for cheaper prices all they need to do is improve the quality and they will take over the world electronics market
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post #870 of 1450 Old 03-15-2006, 07:40 PM
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I've posted this in the "Official Thread" but it hasn't garnered much response. What type of absolute black level are you getting from the projector for those NOT using a filter?

On our 133" matte diagonal screen, when there is an all black field, the screen is still "illuminated" I admit that the contrast is much better than our old sharp xv-s55u, yet the overal black level does not seem that much lower. In fact, this might be higher, due to the 900's higher brightness.

What are other users' experience in this regard?

ALSO:

On low lamp mode, i'm noticing a subtle flicker that occurs in the image, even when the image is stationary and there are no changes. The bulb has about 35 hours on it. Is this something that will dissappear over time?
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