The official Theta Owners Thread - Page 339 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10141 of 13131 Old 11-23-2015, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Over on the Computer Audiophile forum the dude who developed the craze ("Mr. Wicked") of using a software mod for the old Sony Playstation 3 (only models with certain old software, not newer software which won't work for this) is coming out with a new easier tweak to do this - providing blu ray drives which you connect to your computer which will rip SACDs direct and easy. Its in beta now. There's a thread on this which gives you the link to sign up and get on this list to buy this device & software once its available:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6...devices-22124/
Steve,

Thanks very much for this - I just signed up for one.

Cheers,
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post #10142 of 13131 Old 11-24-2015, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by tjk3030 View Post
Speaking of nice systems, I need some advice. I too have a Theta/Aerial setup. My Marantz CD/SACD,DYD/BluRay whatever was getting old, so sold it to pay for Theta CBIV upgrade. But sometimes it would be nice to spin a CD, even though the music is on my server. This will most likely be a rare occurrance, so don't really want to spend big bucks
Anyways wondering what to get? A cheapy from the Blu Shirted store? Maybe go the Audiogon route, maybe an Esoteric, or what the heck just get the OPPO 105???
Opinions please????
It would depend on what dacs you are using in your CBIV. If you are using the older Xtremes, I'd get the Oppo 105. If you have or plan to get the new Xtreme D-3, I'd buy the Oppo 103. The Oppo 105 sounds better IMO than the older Xtreme dacs.

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Last edited by Bulldogger; 11-24-2015 at 07:52 AM.
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post #10143 of 13131 Old 11-24-2015, 07:49 AM
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I would use the oppo 103 regardless of what dacs you have..

The dacs in the CB are better than the oppo dacs and you'll want to do your d/a in the CB..

Just get the 103 it's fine.
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post #10144 of 13131 Old 11-24-2015, 07:56 AM
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Agree with Craig. I understand the digital sections of the 103 and 105 are exactly the same. I ripped the analogue section completely out of my 103. However, I only ever play Blu Ray discs in a spinner these days.

Bulldogger, interesting call that analogue out of the Oppo 105 sounds better than the Xtreme D2. The problem is that you lose all the benefit of DL etc in the Casablanca, no?

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Last edited by stevekale; 11-24-2015 at 08:08 AM.
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post #10145 of 13131 Old 11-24-2015, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
I have a question about DAC's, and the new upgrade! Right now I have 2 Premium cards in my Casa IV. For a 7.1 set up with 1 sub.
I'm moving, new construction. I'm having 4 in ceiling speakers for Atmos installed...but having to downgrade to 5.1 for the new space.
I'm also thinking of adding another sub...so that's 5.2.4 set up with the new IVa...enough for the 12 slots with the 3 DAC's.

I just bought all new KEF reference for the whole room, including the in ceiling.
I know the Premium DAC's are great...but should I save and spring for the new D3 DAC?

It's a big price difference in the 2 DAC's..and with the move, I have to watch the $...but I don't want to short change myself
on sound quality either, since I've come this far?

Anyone with the new D3 DAC care to give their thoughts?
Thanks
In my opinion, you will be very, very happy with the new D3. I continue to enjoy the upgrade from the D2 to the D3. I bought the 6 channel D3 and am running 5.1. (BTW you should check as I think at this stage the only D3 that are available are those in 6 channel, incl front L and R, configuration.) I have left my two 4-channel D2s installed and will use them at some point to take my system to 12 channels (if ever I build a house). You won't need two channels to run two subs (so I wouldn't waste one there).

All that said, if you can't afford the D3 - and that would be completely understandable - you would do well to hunt for used D2 Extreme versus your Premium.

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post #10146 of 13131 Old 11-24-2015, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekale View Post

Bulldogger, interesting call that analogue out of the Oppo 105 sounds better than the Xtreme D2. The problem is that you lose all the benefit of DL etc in the Casablanca, no?
You make a good point about the loss of DL. The Oppo 105 sounds a lot better than the 103 IMO. I have had them both in same system. The Oppo 103 is much harsher sounding. It's just my opinion but I believe the Oppo 105 to sound better than the Xtreme D-2. Perhaps the CBIV is improving the sound of the older Xtremes?

I can't comment on your mod to your Oppo's power supply. The Oppo 103 does not have the same dacs as the Oppo 105. The 105 uses the same dual ES9018 Sabre32 that the 95 used. The Oppo 103 use a Cirrus CS4382A 24 bit DAC. http://www.audioholics.com/blu-ray-a...s/oppo-bdp-105

Ash used Analog Direct with his Oppo, "Kishore,
I can categorically state that Oppo 95 2 Ch analog direct into CB3HD sounds better than Oppo 95 digital in/HDMI to CB3HD.
I was concerned of analog clipping and followed Big Brothers instructions and adjusted the Analog level.
Cant put it in words but ... it sounds warm and well balanced... nothing like I have ever heard in my room.
Ash."

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post #10147 of 13131 Old 11-24-2015, 08:54 AM
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My new CB IV just came. Can't wait to get it set up for Thanksgiving football. FWIW, I got 2 D3 extreme DACs, and that's how they're labeled.
David
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post #10148 of 13131 Old 11-24-2015, 08:57 AM
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I thought the Premium was a newer DAC, and possibly better than the D2?
I guess I'm also a little confused with the sample rates. The D3 and the Premium both support rates to 192 KHz..
but the D2 only goes to 96?
Doesn't that make a difference? With high rez audio?
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post #10149 of 13131 Old 11-24-2015, 08:59 AM
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Also..why don't I need to run 2 channels for 2 subs? Your talking about daisy chaining the 2 subs instead?
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post #10150 of 13131 Old 11-24-2015, 09:01 AM
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I can't imagine how digital out on a 105 would sound better than digital out on the 103 with the same (external) DAC because, as noted, my understanding is that the digital sections are identical. But perhaps that's wrong. Of course, digital out with Theta DACs versus analogue out from the Oppo DACs is a worthy comparison (and, yes, the analogue section and DACs of the 105 are substantially better than the 103). I never made the comparison. I wouldn't forgo DL (and future improvements) though.

I couldn't note a difference (from memory) with my Oppo 103 between the supplied SMPS and the Jaehong Lee linear supply. That said, I never had the opportunity to compare them side-by-side (I only had the one unit) and, having built what I did for my audio server, I can confidently say that the Jaehong Lee supply is about as basic as a regulated linear supply can get. I'm not going to bother seeing if something more sophisticated makes a difference.

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post #10151 of 13131 Old 11-24-2015, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
I thought the Premium was a newer DAC, and possibly better than the D2?
I guess I'm also a little confused with the sample rates. The D3 and the Premium both support rates to 192 KHz..
but the D2 only goes to 96?
Doesn't that make a difference? With high rez audio?
Premium is still bottom of the pack.

192kHz sample rate content is of no use to you when everything internally in the CB is running 96kHz. Now when Theta bring the operation of the CB up to 192kHz then you can see if you can hear a difference between 192kHz and 96kHz sample rates of the same material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
Also..why don't I need to run 2 channels for 2 subs? Your talking about daisy chaining the 2 subs instead?
You are always going to feed the sub the exact same signal so daisy chaining or a splitter is fine. You can manage phase differences with the sub controls.

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post #10152 of 13131 Old 11-24-2015, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekale View Post
In my opinion, you will be very, very happy with the new D3. I continue to enjoy the upgrade from the D2 to the D3. I bought the 6 channel D3 and am running 5.1. (BTW you should check as I think at this stage the only D3 that are available are those in 6 channel, incl front L and R, configuration.) I have left my two 4-channel D2s installed and will use them at some point to take my system to 12 channels (if ever I build a house). You won't need two channels to run two subs (so I wouldn't waste one there).

All that said, if you can't afford the D3 - and that would be completely understandable - you would do well to hunt for used D2 Extreme versus your Premium.
Hi Steve,

For the D3 vs D2, are you noticing the improvement on just music or with movies as well? I'll mostly use mine for movies, so I'm wondering if it's worth upgrading from D2 to D3...

Thanks,
Dave
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post #10153 of 13131 Old 11-24-2015, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekale View Post
Premium is still bottom of the pack.

192kHz sample rate content is of no use to you when everything internally in the CB is running 96kHz. Now when Theta bring the operation of the CB up to 192kHz then you can see if you can hear a difference between 192kHz and 96kHz sample rates of the same material.



You are always going to feed the sub the exact same signal so daisy chaining or a splitter is fine. You can manage phase differences with the sub controls.
I agree. Listen to the Steves!

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post #10154 of 13131 Old 11-24-2015, 07:04 PM
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Before Steve replies!

Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
Hi Steve,

For the D3 vs D2, are you noticing the improvement on just music or with movies as well? I'll mostly use mine for movies, so I'm wondering if it's worth upgrading from D2 to D3...

Thanks,
Dave
I was told this bit of advice many years ago when changing over from my two channel stereo to multi channel for movies and music. It is as follows. When you watch a movie, any movie you are focused on the visuals right? But what is in the background accompanying the visual experience? That answer is of course is the music, some are mixed louder and better than others, but it is still the music that draws you into the performance!
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post #10155 of 13131 Old 11-24-2015, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharp1080 View Post
I was told this bit of advice many years ago when changing over from my two channel stereo to multi channel for movies and music. It is as follows. When you watch a movie, any movie you are focused on the visuals right? But what is in the background accompanying the visual experience? That answer is of course is the music, some are mixed louder and better than others, but it is still the music that draws you into the performance!
I agree, except that I tend to be more focused on sound over visuals - that's just me. I'm just wondering about Steve's experience.

Dave
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post #10156 of 13131 Old 11-25-2015, 03:19 PM
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We started discussing speakers for Dolby Atmos earlier in this thread. What do you think of these in ceiling speakers?

http://hdgear.highdefdigest.com/2532...gspeakers.html

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post #10157 of 13131 Old 11-26-2015, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
We started discussing speakers for Dolby Atmos earlier in this thread. What do you think of these in ceiling speakers?
http://hdgear.highdefdigest.com/2532...gspeakers.html

Steve, great speakers and obviously would sound excellent, but *IMHO* not ideal. Installed on ceiling, its tweeter will be pointing straight down making listeners more off axis to high frequency sound. If ceiling speakers are directly above MLP's head it's ok, if ceiling speakers are in front and behind you as recommended for Atmos 7.1.4 install, sound will be more muffled than ideal for distinct-sounding Foleys such as helicopter panning front to back, also the b-group :-) that tends to be on ceiling: bugs, birds, bullets, etc.

KEF will likely (or should) release more ceiling speakers with aimable drivers or angled baffle in the future. They have one already that I posted the other day, but just a touch too complicated with motorized baffle, and using different drivers. Helpful Atmos's White Paper here:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://cdn-blog.dolby.com/wp-content...me-Theater.pdf
If you use ceiling speakers, Dolby recommends that you use four or more speakers when
possible, though two speakers will still provide a great experience. If you use four ceiling
speakers
, you should place the front pair of ceiling speakers in front of the position where
you’ll be listening and the second pair of ceiling speakers behind you when you’re seated. If
you use two ceiling speakers, mount them slightly in front of where you’ll be listening.
Dolby recommends ceiling speakers with wide dispersion patterns. If you use ceiling
speakers with narrow dispersion (less than 90 degrees x 90 degrees) or those with aimable
drivers, angle the drivers slightly toward your listening position.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review (CB IVa setup help HERE) Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).

Last edited by cannga; 11-26-2015 at 11:55 AM.
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post #10158 of 13131 Old 11-26-2015, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Steve, great speakers and obviously would sound excellent, but *IMHO* not ideal. Installed on ceiling, its tweeter will be pointing straight down making listeners more off axis to high frequency sound. If ceiling speakers are directly above MLP's head it's ok, if ceiling speakers are in front and behind you as recommended for Atmos 7.1.4 install, sound will be more muffled than ideal for distinct-sounding Foleys such as helicopter panning front to back, also the b-group :-) that tends to be on ceiling: bugs, birds, bullets, etc.

KEF will likely (or should) release more ceiling speakers with aimable drivers or angled baffle in the future. They have one already that I posted the other day, but just a touch too complicated with motorized baffle, and using different drivers. Good Atmos's White Paper below:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://cdn-blog.dolby.com/wp-content...me-Theater.pdf
If you use ceiling speakers, Dolby recommends that you use four or more speakers when
possible, though two speakers will still provide a great experience. If you use four ceiling
speakers
, you should place the front pair of ceiling speakers in front of the position where
you’ll be listening and the second pair of ceiling speakers behind you when you’re seated. If
you use two ceiling speakers, mount them slightly in front of where you’ll be listening.
Dolby recommends ceiling speakers with wide dispersion patterns. If you use ceiling
speakers with narrow dispersion (less than 90 degrees x 90 degrees) or those with aimable
drivers, angle the drivers slightly toward your listening position.
Yea, I noticed that these KEF in ceiling speakers are not "aimable"! I am not in a hurry. For now I am holding off on Atmos until I feel the right ceiling speakers come along!

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post #10159 of 13131 Old 11-26-2015, 01:23 PM
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Regarding a cd/sacd spinner. I have all my music on a server. But some days I like to think of the old days, actually inserting a cd, read the liner, sip a nice whiskey, then close my eyes and let the music take me to another space and time.
Yikes I'm sounding terribly new agey. Must be my yoga and ballet classes I'm taking. Yup you read correctly I'm a 60 year old guy taking ballet classes, I'm starting to believe ballet is the new yoga. Plus the woman all clap for me when I get something right.

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post #10160 of 13131 Old 11-26-2015, 01:24 PM
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Was seeking advice on a cd/sacd spinner

Regarding a cd/sacd spinner. I have all my music on a server. But some days I like to think of the old days, actually inserting a cd, read the liner, sip a nice whiskey, then close my eyes and let the music take me to another space and time.
Yikes I'm sounding terribly new agey. Must be my yoga and ballet classes I'm taking. Yup you read correctly I'm a 60 year old guy taking ballet classes, I'm starting to believe ballet is the new yoga. Plus the woman all clap for me when I get something right.

This ain't no party, this ain't no disco
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post #10161 of 13131 Old 11-26-2015, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjk3030 View Post
Regarding a cd/sacd spinner. I have all my music on a server. But some days I like to think of the old days, actually inserting a cd, read the liner, sip a nice whiskey, then close my eyes and let the music take me to another space and time.
Yikes I'm sounding terribly new agey. Must be my yoga and ballet classes I'm taking. Yup you read correctly I'm a 60 year old guy taking ballet classes, I'm starting to believe ballet is the new yoga. Plus the woman all clap for me when I get something right.
I have never done ballet, but had a physical therapist that taught me Yoga specific exercises to help heal a hip flexor injury that occurred at work. I still use them to this day believe it or not. Helps a lot with overall balance for me. Nothing like adoration from the women in the group. Smooth move there!
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post #10162 of 13131 Old 11-26-2015, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjk3030 View Post
Regarding a cd/sacd spinner. I have all my music on a server. But some days I like to think of the old days, actually inserting a cd, read the liner, sip a nice whiskey, then close my eyes and let the music take me to another space and time.
Yikes I'm sounding terribly new agey. Must be my yoga and ballet classes I'm taking. Yup you read correctly I'm a 60 year old guy taking ballet classes, I'm starting to believe ballet is the new yoga. Plus the woman all clap for me when I get something right.
Talking about dancin'. STARZ has a new show "Flesh and Blood" starring a real professional dancer! I've watched 4 episodes (STARZ has all 8 first season episodes available on DirecTV On Demand even though by the week they have only shown 3 episodes).

As for the women all clapping for you, just be careful and do not get the - - - (applause) CLAP!

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post #10163 of 13131 Old 11-26-2015, 01:49 PM
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Actually I binged watch the whole series

In my younger days, I dated the principal dancer for the Cleveland Ballet so I'm somewhat familiar with the dancers world. Anyways the series took all the worst possible traits and put them all into the series. One thing they really don't but maybe a just a little bit is the tremendous competition/rivalries over the parts and roles in the company. Wait to you see the final episode. Like WTF?
IE Those people are crazy.

But the dancing is quite good, I believed they cast dancers that can act as opposed to actors and taught them to dance.

When i told some guy friends my latest hobby. They all snickered. My response is I'm the only guy in a room with gorgeous woman wearing skin tight outfits that are terribly limber. Sometimes just a few feet away, so close you just want to reach out and squeeze their asses, so go ahead and drink beer and watch football. That shuts them up.

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post #10164 of 13131 Old 11-26-2015, 01:57 PM
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Actually the reason I'm taking ballet classes is that in the fall I'm planning on getting teacher certification in yoga, the ballet really helps with stretching, poise and balance. I'm pretty much deaf in one ear and the other ear isn't much better, I have a terrible time with balancing. However many years ago I had a brain tumor that after surgery and chemo, I had a terrible time talking, I pretty much had to learn to talk again, so hoping I can learn to balance again. And I am making progress. The yoga teachers picked up on it pretty quickly when we are standing and close our eyes, I'm wobbling all over the place. On a few poses I can actually remain in balance for a minute or two, which is a lot better then when I started.
At least that's the plan

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post #10165 of 13131 Old 11-27-2015, 11:31 AM
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A few weeks ago Bulldogger mentioned his thoughts that using JRiver Media Center with the CBIV, set JRive to output 96-24 for all audio resolutions and bit rates, since the CBIV has 96-24 internal processing. His reasoning is that JRiver internally processes at 64 bits and has more computer power than the CBIV's processing so that should sound the best.

Bulldogger, I luv ya, but I think you are plainly wrong about this!

First, although you are very experienced with JRiver on a PC, you only recently got your CBIV, as you had sold your prior model as your family had been waiting some time to buy and move into your new home, so you really haven't had hardly any time to play with your media server PC & CBIV & Jriver.

Second, in the JRiver Wiki, for "Audiophiles" they recommend setting all sample & bit rates to "No Change" for those sample & bit rates that your DAC can process; and then
changing other sample & bit rates that your DAC can't process to lower rates that your DAC can process.

Third - I had been using the "No Change" on all sample and bit rates up to 192-24; and beyond that, I set DSD files for 176-24 and other files for 192-24. Sounded marvelous. Since Bulldogger's post a few weeks ago, I changed the sample and bit rates all to 96-24. Although this still sounded good, overall I "felt" my sonics at times lacking.

Fourth - Computer Audiophile has a raving review of the Schiit Audio Yggdrasil Multibit DAC Review at
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/co...it-dac-review/ The guiding force at Schiit is Mike Moffet, one of Theta Digital's founders many years ago. The article discusses the very importance of the digital filters custom designed with the Schitt DAC and that the characteristics of the original music file
remain despite the oversampling done by Schiit. Although Mike Moffet is long gone from Theta, Theta's DACs have their own custom designed digital filters with their own oversampling against designed to retain the characteristics of the original music file. By setting JRiver to output 96-24 for everything, you are downrezzing higher rez and upsampling lower res music files and essentially losing the most important characteristics of the original music file, except I would assume for 96-24 music files.

Fifth - last night I changed my JRiver settings back to how they had been all along, "No Change" for up to and including 192-24, and with DSD output at 176-24 (I had tried DSD at 88-24 and my impression that sometimes the 176-24 sounded a bit better so I left this at 176-24). And the result - once again in audio nirvana!

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post #10166 of 13131 Old 11-29-2015, 12:07 PM
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Second, in the JRiver Wiki, for "Audiophiles" they recommend setting all sample & bit rates to "No Change" for those sample & bit rates that your DAC can process; and then
changing other sample & bit rates that your DAC can't process to lower rates that your DAC can process.

......

Fourth - Computer Audiophile has a raving review of the Schiit Audio Yggdrasil Multibit DAC Review at
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/co...it-dac-review/ The guiding force at Schiit is Mike Moffet, one of Theta Digital's founders many years ago. The article discusses the very importance of the digital filters custom designed with the Schitt DAC and that the characteristics of the original music file
remain despite the oversampling done by Schiit. Although Mike Moffet is long gone from Theta, Theta's DACs have their own custom designed digital filters with their own oversampling against designed to retain the characteristics of the original music file. By setting JRiver to output 96-24 for everything, you are downrezzing higher rez and upsampling lower res music files and essentially losing the most important characteristics of the original music file, except I would assume for 96-24 music files.
Very good and intersting discussion Steve.

Regards, Can
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post #10167 of 13131 Old 11-29-2015, 12:25 PM
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Yea, I noticed that these KEF in ceiling speakers are not "aimable"! I am not in a hurry. For now I am holding off on Atmos until I feel the right ceiling speakers come along!

Sure; there is plenty of time as Theta's Atmos is not out yet and DTS:X is still MIA. I think we would be lucky to have DTS:X by June 2016.

WRT to Foleys/movie sound effects, IMHO the downward firing, NON aim-able ceiling speaker would be fine for the A group (atmospheric/ambient), but not the B group (bullet, birds, bugs). A is diffuse but B is distinct and for that, preferable to have speakers point at listener for good high frequency definition.

And forgive me for making up the "cute" groupings .

Regards, Can
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Last edited by cannga; 11-29-2015 at 12:34 PM.
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post #10168 of 13131 Old 11-29-2015, 06:57 PM
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Since most of the floor mounted models require a ceiling fired speaker, I would think that a bipolar or dipole style ceiling mounted speaker system would work best for ATMOS or DTS:X systems. What is your take on this?

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post #10169 of 13131 Old 11-29-2015, 10:19 PM
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Since most of the floor mounted models require a ceiling fired speaker, I would think that a bipolar or dipole style ceiling mounted speaker system would work best for ATMOS or DTS:X systems. What is your take on this?
I assume you were asking me :-). Nothing wrong with keeping dipoles/bipoles if that's what you have, but recent practice and latest recommendation from Dolby are monopole speakers all around.

Dipole/bipole speakers as already well discussed increase spaciousness/immersion at the expense of image clarity/focus. (This trade-off is similar to ride vs handling in cars - as one goes up the other one *tends* to go down. A test drive in my Bilstein-modified Turbo would prove this instantly .) Image clarity is important with Atmos and DTS:X as all speakers, including ceilings, are used to form phantom images. An example is the B group Foleys (bullet, birds, bugs) that I spoke of in post above.

It's interesting to note that the introduction of Atmos does NOT change the above basic principles of spaciousness vs. clarity, stereo imaging from surround speakers, etc. OTOH it should also be noted that as the number of speakers increase, sound (decorrelated or not) is now coming from more positions, probably lessening the need for artificially increasing diffusion by using bipoles/dipoles. Below is a picture of Dolby's own BD mixing room in Los Angeles - monopole with aim-able drivers all around:


Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review (CB IVa setup help HERE) Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).

Last edited by cannga; 11-30-2015 at 09:27 AM.
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post #10170 of 13131 Old 11-30-2015, 01:13 PM
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For me personally I will NEVER drill holes in my ceiling and add speakers just to hear the latest format being introduced. I'm sure it is immersive totally as some have stated. I guess I'll always lean more into stereo music and listening. That in turn led me to invest big money in my speakers and room presently. I refuse to, and will not chase the dragon. What happens when the next change in movie playback occurs? I guess I could build a "normal system" in my den?
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