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post #10441 of 13172 Old 04-13-2016, 03:26 AM
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Same here! I think the X3 DAC is a worthy upgrade. In truth it is very likely wasted on surround channels but 'what the hell!' (It does allow 6 channels in one slot versus just 4.) Bulldogger was pushing me to upgrade my DAC for quite some time. He was right, of course, but the decision was between purchasing a used Gen VIII or waiting for the X3. I chose to wait for the X3 and I am very happy with the result. Now I will wait for the discrete Gen X to see if that goes even further.

All that said, I still think the next best upgrade for me will be more subs, more Modex Plates and Unison rather than any new DAC.

Based on my listening to the NC500-based amp (which didn't have a toroid at all), I think people will really enjoy the upcoming ATI NC500 model. If its exterior aesthetics are as good as the Dreadnaught D (I'm not a fan of the 'overly-rugged and chunky' look) it's going to be a winner. When I get to the point where I need/want more channels (an Atmos dedicated room build will be the driver of me upgrading from my Krell amps for surround) it is going to be a tough decision between the Theta Dreadnaught and the ATI NC500 build. I know the latter will have all the power I will ever need (even for driving my Eggworks Andra mains to full enjoyment), but I love the Theta brand and its gorgeous exterior design.

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post #10442 of 13172 Old 04-13-2016, 11:10 AM
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Oops - back to Theta! Jeff, any comment re CBIV next software version to provide more than one DL filter? I really want to run Dirac Live for my new headphones.
I simply have my laptop nearby and as I have on my laptop my two Dirac filters (one for front and one for back row), I load the one based on where I feel like [email protected]@@
Of course it would be nice if Dirac would step up and revise the software to hold at least two Dirac filters.

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post #10443 of 13172 Old 04-13-2016, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by stevekale View Post
Bulldogger was pushing me to upgrade my DAC for quite some time. He was right, of course, but the decision was between purchasing a used Gen VIII or waiting for the X3. I chose to wait for the X3 and I am very happy with the result. Now I will wait for the discrete Gen X to see if that goes even further.
I was already fond of the amps that you are using and knew those to be of high quality. When I visited Eggleston and realized the stellar quality of the speaker line, I knew you had really world class capable gear but just needed to "touch up," the front end. The speaker company really needs to get more press http://egglestonworks.com/ . There is such a great balance between clarity on one hand, and a "natural", non electronic, sound on the other hand. That's hard to achieve.

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post #10444 of 13172 Old 04-14-2016, 03:06 AM
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Since I use a Theta CBIV SSP, 3 external Theta Gen VIII DACs, and five Theta Prometheus monoblocks, here's something really interesting sonicwise for Theta luvers!


EGADS! ROON has just got WAY better in my audio/home theater [email protected]@@

My ROON setup, until tonight, was as follows:

CAPSv4 (Computer Audiophile forum server, version 4), USB out. With Roonserver loaded, designated as my primary music computer for ROON, because ROON would only use the USB out from the primary music server.

iPad Pro with the iPad Pro app for ROON, used as a controller only.

Also a Toshiba laptop, with the full RoonInstaller loaded, but used only as a controller as well.

_______________

Tonight, as I started listening to music with ROON, an auto ROON software install came up and loaded. I checked and found out the ROON version is now 1.2. And version 1.2 also has RoonBridge software, which now allows the full RoonInstaller to be installed on a computer remote, that is, from the media server that is outputting the USB music!

Now my ROON setup, as of late last night (Tuesday night) (EXCITING!) is:

CAPSv4 (Computer Audiophile forum server, version 4), USB out. With Roonserver and RoonBridge loaded, designated as a remote computer for ROON.

CAPSv3 Zuma (Computer Audiophile forum server, version 3) (modded a bit). I use this media server only for multi-channel out via HDMI using JRiver Media Center software (as ROON does not at this time do multi-channel audio). But NOW I have loaded the main RoonInstaller, the full ROON program, and I have this computer designated as primary for ROON. ROON’s database is now on this computer. This computer does all the filing, searching, internet connections, audio processing, etc now for ROON and my 2 channel audio – then the audio file goes through my wi-fi network to the CAPSv4 and out its USB. HA!

iPad Pro with the iPad Pro app for ROON, used as a controller only.

Also a Toshiba laptop, with the full RoonInstaller loaded, but used only as a controller as well.
____________________________

ROON as configured prior to tonight, in my system, sounded better than JRiver Media Center 21, for stereo!

By moving all the PC “work” and “processing” over to the CAPSv3, the sonic improvement is astounding and [email protected]@@

ROON is a terrific audio playing program for audiophiles and music luvers! Its metadata capabilities alone are reason to use ROON. But its audio quality particularly when you use a separate computer for the ROON processing, etc (as I use the CAPSv3), and use a media server pretty much only to pass on the audio signal (as I use the CAPSv4), is second to none! I am blown away! I wonder how long I will stay up listening to music tonite? Its already 2 AM!

No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason! 9.9.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade still in process!
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post #10445 of 13172 Old 04-14-2016, 04:10 AM
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So Steve you decided to get Roon huh? I remember when I talked about it a while back you had mentioned you liked what you had because of all the music and Metadata you had. You mentioned you didn't want it all to get messed up.

I am hopeful that I had at least a little influence on that. I told you you would love it. I am glad you are finding it as incredible as I do.

JVC RS4810 projector Stewart Cima 115" 2.35 screen, ATI 523 and 528 amps
7 mirror imaged 2 way DIY monitors. All matched to within 1db. All parts matched, 1 SVS SB16 ultra subwoofer
Emotiva XMC-1 processor Marantz UD5007 Bluray player
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post #10446 of 13172 Old 04-14-2016, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post
So Steve you decided to get Roon huh? I remember when I talked about it a while back you had mentioned you liked what you had because of all the music and Metadata you had. You mentioned you didn't want it all to get messed up.

I am hopeful that I had at least a little influence on that. I told you you would love it. I am glad you are finding it as incredible as I do.
Actually aside from the positive reviews, my Theta dealer buddy Craig Shumer had mentioned how he heard super stuff about ROON. I picked up a lifetime subscription at 30% off the normal $500 last Black Friday, so I've been using ROON for sometime [email protected]@@

No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason! 9.9.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade still in process!
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post #10447 of 13172 Old 04-14-2016, 01:41 PM
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Well glad to hear it. I might wait until black friday this year to subscribe. I want the lifetime subscription after seeing it in person at the high end show hear in Cleveland. It sure was impressive

JVC RS4810 projector Stewart Cima 115" 2.35 screen, ATI 523 and 528 amps
7 mirror imaged 2 way DIY monitors. All matched to within 1db. All parts matched, 1 SVS SB16 ultra subwoofer
Emotiva XMC-1 processor Marantz UD5007 Bluray player
Furman sequencer ran off of a double 50amp breaker,Furman power conditioner
All in a dedicated 15x22x8 foot dedicated home theater.
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post #10448 of 13172 Old 04-14-2016, 02:51 PM
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Well glad to hear it. I might wait until black friday this year to subscribe. I want the lifetime subscription after seeing it in person at the high end show hear in Cleveland. It sure was impressive
Its all too possible that last Black Friday ROON deal may have been the one and only. Who knows? I am so glad I got in on it! As the ROON developers did Sonos before, my impression was that ROON will likely be here to stay and will continue to be improved both featurewise and sonically - and thats been the case so far!!!

ROON does not ruin my day - it makes my day. HA!

No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason! 9.9.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade still in process!
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post #10449 of 13172 Old 04-15-2016, 06:31 PM
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Steve:

The Roon developers did Sooloos before, not Sonos.

Jeff
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post #10450 of 13172 Old 04-15-2016, 06:56 PM
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Steve:

The Roon developers did Sooloos before, not Sonos.

Jeff
Woops! Just wanted to see if anyone was actually reading what I posted. HA!

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post #10451 of 13172 Old 04-16-2016, 03:05 PM
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I was already fond of the amps that you are using and knew those to be of high quality. When I visited Eggleston and realized the stellar quality of the speaker line, I knew you had really world class capable gear but just needed to "touch up," the front end. The speaker company really needs to get more press http://egglestonworks.com/ . There is such a great balance between clarity on one hand, and a "natural", non electronic, sound on the other hand. That's hard to achieve.
Indeed. They seem to be very focused on the Asian market, but also come to Munich "High End" in Europe. They don't seem to be chasing hype, not for a very long while - not since the release of the Andra I. I'd love to visit their workshop and plan to do so at some point.

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post #10452 of 13172 Old 04-18-2016, 07:09 AM
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I think there might be a *partial* solution for the lack of more than 1 Dirac target curve in the Casablanca: set target curves in JRiver's DSP Studio instead. Basically you set a target curve BEFORE feeding it to the Casablanca in the software player, such as JRiver's DSP Studio (allows you to store multiple equalizer curves).

Anyone pls correct me as needed, but I believe this would work because when you pre-equalize before Dirac, the new signal becomes *the* source material. In other words, if you pre-equalize to make the sound warmer, Dirac looks at this as a warm recording, and will not try to reverse it.

For example if you would like to store 2 curves, one for speaker one for headphone (which basically has less boost) as in the Harman curve below, you could set the 2 curves in JRiver, then leave the Casablanca target curve flat. Alternatively you could set for example speaker target curve in Casablanca, and reduce the boost in JRiver for headphone. It's an imperfect solution since you have to do it manually and the curve is coarse, but it's worth a try since changing curves in JRiver is simple, but a click of a button. IMHO.


Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review (CB IVa setup help HERE) Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
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post #10453 of 13172 Old 04-18-2016, 07:16 AM
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Very, very, different form of 'equalisation'. Much more simplistic than Dirac Live. Personally I wouldn't recommend it.

BTW if anyone is wondering how you would conduct the measurements for headphones (placing the target response to one side for the moment) you simply need to build a 'probe tip' which fits firmly over the supplied mic. The probe tip would be made of 0.05" hollow tubing and a cap to fit firmly over the mic. Place the headphones on your head in normal fashion with the mic 'probe' slipped under the headphones to your ear and measure away. Voila! Dirac Live your own peculiar ears!

Not sure why you would want less bass 'boost' than with speakers... I'd want the same target curve, assuming the headphones were up to the task and weren't being massively overdriven (all of which could be checked beforehand).

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post #10454 of 13172 Old 04-18-2016, 07:24 AM
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Very, very, different form of 'equalisation'. Much more simplistic than Dirac Live. Personally I wouldn't recommend it.

BTW if anyone is wondering how you would conduct the measurements for headphones, you simply need to build a 'probe tip' which fits firmly over the supplied mic. The probe tip would be made of 0.05" hollow tubing and a cap to fit firmly over the mic. Place the headphones on your head with mic probe slipped under the headphones to your ear and measure away. Voila! Dirac Live your own peculiar ear!

Not sure why you would want less bass boost' than with speakers...
Dirac Live has 2 functions,
a. room correction (correct for room reflection, room mode)
b. equalizer function (target curve)

Don't confuse the 2. a depends on mic feedback ("room correction"), b is an equalizer. The equalizer function is the same: equalizer. IMHO.

Regards, Can
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Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
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post #10455 of 13172 Old 04-18-2016, 07:30 AM
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I'm not confused, but you are. I don't think you understand how Dirac Live works. One uses, to adopt your terms, 'room correction' to approach a 'target curve'. Setting the target curve is easy (although subject to subjectivity) while taking the measurements and generating the filters is not in that it is the core of the technology involved (measurements are largely mechanical and the software's algorithms - complex or basic - are generally fixed, although some programs offer choice). I'm interested in using Dirac Live's filter algorithm to meet my chosen target frequency response curve (not JRiver's algorithms). I'm not interested in simply making an equaliser adjustment. I want to measure the frequency response of my headphones in the room created between them and my head and room correct accordingly. Much more than making an arbitrary equalisation adjustment.

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post #10456 of 13172 Old 04-18-2016, 07:56 AM
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You are right that one could use other software, such as REW, to measure the frequency response of the headphones en situe and to create a set of filters that JRiver can use (with Dirac Live on the CB merely set to 'off'). But I like the advanced technology deployed by Dirac Live. To the best of my knowledge - and do please correct me if I am out of date on this - JRiver cannot process a Dirac Live generated filter set. It's rather frustrating that it has taken well over a year already to activate the 'Filter B' for which placeholders already exist in the CB firmware.

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post #10457 of 13172 Old 04-18-2016, 10:08 AM
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You are right that one could use other software, such as REW, to measure the frequency response of the headphones en situe and to create a set of filters that JRiver can use (with Dirac Live on the CB merely set to 'off'). But I like the advanced technology deployed by Dirac Live. To the best of my knowledge - and do please correct me if I am out of date on this - JRiver cannot process a Dirac Live generated filter set. It's rather frustrating that it has taken well over a year already to activate the 'Filter B' for which placeholders already exist in the CB firmware.

If I understand your question correctly, no, but I think that's the reverse of what I am suggesting. JRiver equalizer function ("non-smart") is applied *before* the Casablanca, then signal is fed into Casablanca for Dirac room correction equalizer ("smart" - with room feedback) with Dirac Live correction on, but target curve flat.

As mentioned this is only a partial solution and merely theoretical musing, but it should work. In fact I believe this is how it's done in my M3 with Dirac Live - one button for graphic equalizer, one button for Dirac "room" correction equalizer.

While Dirac room correction is equalizer using an exact scientific process, the target curve itself is equalizer based on subjective taste (it is a result of scientific test, but it's in itself is in-exact), so the only negative I could think of at this point, the lesser "resolution" of JRiver curve, should not pose a problem.

Regards, Can
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Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).

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post #10458 of 13172 Old 04-18-2016, 10:17 AM
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As much as I hate to agree with Steve Kale (), Steve right. You do not mess with JRiver EQing when you have Dirac Live. Again, you can retain multiple Dirac filters say on your laptop, have it nearby, and load whatever Dirac filter depending on which one you want to use and where you, etc will be sitting in your room. Both Steve and I have the CBIV with Dirac Live (Cannga has the CBIIIHD without Dirac Live) and have worked with it enough to know how it works and sounds in our systems!

Besides, at least for stereo, JRiver is "old" obsolete technology, and ROON rules!

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post #10459 of 13172 Old 04-18-2016, 11:39 AM
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If I understand your question correctly, no, but I think that's the reverse of what I am suggesting. JRiver equalizer function ("non-smart") is applied *before* the Casablanca, then signal is fed into Casablanca for Dirac room correction equalizer ("smart" - with room feedback) with Dirac Live correction on, but target curve flat.
The bit you are missing (or seem to be) is (a) I am not interested in applying an arbitrary equalisation adjustment and (b) Dirac Live is not an 'equaliser'. I'm interested in feeding the headphone response into a calculator to derive appropriate filters so that impulse-response behaviour better matches a target curve. I'm not interested in any sort of adjustment which ignores the (native) impulse-response behaviour. Dirac Live ONLY takes measured impulse-response and calculates a filter set to alter that behaviour to better match a target curve. It does not and cannot make a simple equalisation adjustment independent of measuring impulse-response and using this as a starting point.

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As mentioned this is only a partial solution and merely theoretical musing, but it should work. In fact I believe this is how it's done in my M3 with Dirac Live - one button for graphic equalizer, one button for Dirac "room" correction equalizer.
There's nothing which stops BMW from providing you with an equaliser - just an extended set of the more typical bass and treble controls - as well as a Dirac Live-filtered impulse response. But the former isn't what I am interested in.

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While Dirac Live room equalizer is an exact scientific process, the setting of the target curve is equalizer based on subjective taste (it is a result of scientific test, but it's in itself is in-exact), so the only negative I could think of at this point, the lesser "resolution" of JRiver curve, should not pose a problem.
In both cases setting the desired curve is subject, to a varying degree, to taste. But again, you miss the point that I am only interested in something which 'corrects' the actual native impulse-response for a chosen target. There are many ways to layer an arbitrary adjustment over the top of anything, but there are comparatively few ways to examine standalone impulse-response and correct that.

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post #10460 of 13172 Old 04-18-2016, 12:14 PM
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...I'm interested in feeding the headphone response into a calculator to derive appropriate filters so that impulse-response behaviour better matches a target curve...
Got it, you're right - we are talking about 2 completely different things!

Regards, Can
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post #10461 of 13172 Old 04-18-2016, 12:16 PM
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Can, perhaps the following is helpful. The target curve one uses in Dirac Live is never uploaded to the CB IV. It's gone and forgotten after use (except that one can store it for next time you measure). The only thing that's uploaded to the CB IV is the filter set which 'corrects' or adjusts, as best as possible, the (previously) measured impulse-response behaviour of the gear and room combined to better achieve the target/desired impulse-response behaviour. (Use this in its most generic sense as there is a specific meaning of impulse response in room acoustics. I mean stimulus-response.) The filters adjust the outgoing frequency (and time domain) stimuli to new values better likely to achieve what was intended. You are not uploading a set of equaliser settings in the sense that one would set with a conventional equaliser.


If you have ever done serious photography you will be very familiar with colour management and the challenge of transferring between colour spaces. The analogy here is that your room and the gear within it produce a 'colour space' of their own. Think, in 8 bit terms, of the response to each of the 256 possible stimuli that it might encounter. Profile it and you get a colour profile. Colour management software/modules "CMM" manage the translation of data between colour spaces as measured/described by colour profiles. You might want to best map the impulse-response behaviour of your digital camera (via an editing workspace) to a printer which has an entirely different response behaviour to each of those 256 possible stimuli (and boundary constraints). A CMM changes the bit values so that the desired colour is achieved. Here we define a target outcome and a filter alters the outgoing bit values to achieve the desired target. Of course, in audio we also have the time domain to deal with as well as the frequency domain. You are 'uploading a CMM' to the CB IV.

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post #10462 of 13172 Old 04-18-2016, 12:29 PM
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Yes looking back I could see clearly where our discussion completely diverted. Like one is speaking French, the other Chinese.
And yes I am quite a nutty shutterbug.

Regards, Can
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post #10463 of 13172 Old 04-18-2016, 02:37 PM
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Yes looking back I could see clearly where our discussion completely diverted. Like one is speaking French, the other Chinese.
And yes I am quite a nutty shutterbug.
Here's an idea from left field. You can, theoretically, use DLC in the normal way PLUS set it up as a VST plug-in within JRiver and have different targets/corrections in each.

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post #10464 of 13172 Old 04-18-2016, 02:50 PM
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A DL filter can be loaded into JRiver via JRiver's VST plug-in support? Please do explain how...

EDIT: A little Googling, more tomorrow, seems to suggest one can download a trial version of DLCS to the computer running JRiver and even if not purchased the VST plug-in remains useable for already generated filters (or in our case filters generated from another, licensed version of the software)? Am I on the right track?

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f2...02/#post485401

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post #10465 of 13172 Old 04-18-2016, 03:25 PM
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Anyone recommend a digital coax cable for my Casa IV to a music server. I've been using analog for a while...and switching to a digital cable. I know the prices go from $10 up to $$$$, but I want to know what some of the other Casa users are using? Thanks
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post #10466 of 13172 Old 04-19-2016, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by stevekale View Post
A DL filter can be loaded into JRiver via JRiver's VST plug-in support? Please do explain how...

EDIT: A little Googling, more tomorrow, seems to suggest one can download a trial version of DLCS to the computer running JRiver and even if not purchased the VST plug-in remains useable for already generated filters (or in our case filters generated from another, licensed version of the software)? Am I on the right track?

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f2...02/#post485401
Yes. DLC on a PC or inside JRiver (with VST), you already have access to multiple correction curves which you can generate with multiple target curves.

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post #10467 of 13172 Old 04-19-2016, 04:24 AM
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Anyone recommend a digital coax cable for my Casa IV to a music server. I've been using analog for a while...and switching to a digital cable. I know the prices go from $10 up to $$$$, but I want to know what some of the other Casa users are using? Thanks
SPDIF or AES/EBU? You could buy a fancy expensive Cardas cable like I did or, better, don't be fooled and just buy one from Blue Jeans Cable or prep your own. Belden 1694a 75 Ohm for SPDIF is £2 a metre at Farnell UK (including VAT) and likely cheaper in the US...

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post #10468 of 13172 Old 04-19-2016, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
Anyone recommend a digital coax cable for my Casa IV to a music server. I've been using analog for a while...and switching to a digital cable. I know the prices go from $10 up to $$$$, but I want to know what some of the other Casa users are using? Thanks
Any RG59 based 75ohm coax cable will do. RG6 type such as 1694A is about 3/8in dia and way overkill for short distances.

Also don't worry about true 75ohm* RCA connectors. With digital audio frequencies at or below 96khz, the connector impedance is irrelevant.

*IMPO, any manufacture needing an impedance controlled connector shouldn't be using an RCA connector in the first place!

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post #10469 of 13172 Old 04-19-2016, 10:29 AM
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Any RG59 based 75ohm coax cable will do. RG6 type such as 1694A is about 3/8in dia and way overkill for short distances.

1. Also don't worry about true 75ohm* RCA connectors. 2. With digital audio frequencies at or below 96khz, the connector impedance is irrelevant.

*IMPO, any manufacture needing an impedance controlled connector shouldn't be using an RCA connector in the first place!
Questions please:

1. Do you happen to know what makes a 75 ohm RCA connector 75 ohm? Is it physical construction? Just curious. I have a few and to my eyes they seem to look the same as the non-75 ohm connectors.

2. Why is this? What's significant about the 96 khz cut off? ("Real" questions - not being argumentative at all. )

Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review (CB IVa setup help HERE) Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
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post #10470 of 13172 Old 04-19-2016, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
Anyone recommend a digital coax cable for my Casa IV to a music server. I've been using analog for a while...and switching to a digital cable. I know the prices go from $10 up to $$$$, but I want to know what some of the other Casa users are using? Thanks
When I was younger, I used cables with 75 ohm connectors called Illuminati (bought out by Kimber Kable). Now I use anything with the right length LOL.

(Half) kidding aside, another vote for Blue Jeans cable here.

Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review (CB IVa setup help HERE) Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).
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