The official Theta Owners Thread - Page 355 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10621 of 13178 Old 07-01-2016, 07:19 AM
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Apple is in talks right now to buy Tidal. I for one am not happy. I hope they don't muck it up and stream in lower quality.

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post #10622 of 13178 Old 07-01-2016, 07:49 AM
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Well, maybe not for the Casablanca, but Gen 8 could do DSD, right ?

(I mean by a SW upgrade)
No. Theta made a decision at least 10 years ago, not to support native DSD in any products. I have a Marantz SA-7s1 that I used with both the Six Shooter and the analog input of the Gen VIII. The Gen VIII sounds better to my ears and all of my friends that have heard playing SACD converted to PCM at 176. That's a 7k player. For me that settled whether I needed native DSD playback. When I use Dirac Live with the SACD converted to 176 PCM, then the Marantz SA-7 really gets smoked. You would need to have a purpose built room and room treatments and no need for Dirac Live to realize better sound with native DSD. Do you use Dirac Live?

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post #10623 of 13178 Old 07-01-2016, 08:14 AM
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Do you use Dirac Live?
Not yet. Waiting for the 4A (with USB ?) .In October? Looking forward to DL.

Yesterday my MicroRendu was shipped, so hopefully that will be a step up from Squeezebox Touch. Roon life membership purchased last month.

I will use the m2Tec USB/SPDIF converter.

But isn't DoP a way of making DSD to PCM ? And could a firmware upgrade make Gen 8 accept DoP, or will you still need a DSD capable DAC for DoP files ?
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post #10624 of 13178 Old 07-01-2016, 08:24 AM
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I was adviced by Theta to keep my Gen8. And Steve B is not selling his either
I, as well, use multiple Gen8 DACs in my CB4 system. It is the best audio system I have ever put together and the best value by far. What a wonderful company and I'm so happy that Theta is continuing to do so well. I don't regret or question the money spent for a single moment.
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post #10625 of 13178 Old 07-01-2016, 10:50 AM
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Steve: Do you use Tidal Hi-Fi ?
I could - but I don't, as I've got such a wealth of my own music collection including an awful lot of resolution higher than redbook!

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #10626 of 13178 Old 07-01-2016, 10:55 AM
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No. Theta made a decision at least 10 years ago, not to support native DSD in any products. I have a Marantz SA-7s1 that I used with both the Six Shooter and the analog input of the Gen VIII. The Gen VIII sounds better to my ears and all of my friends that have heard playing SACD converted to PCM at 176. That's a 7k player. For me that settled whether I needed native DSD playback. When I use Dirac Live with the SACD converted to 176 PCM, then the Marantz SA-7 really gets smoked. You would need to have a purpose built room and room treatments and no need for Dirac Live to realize better sound with native DSD. Do you use Dirac Live?
Berkely Audio also has their new $20k DAC and if one wants DSD, then have the player software do the conversion, and use the Berkely Audio USB to digital converter (as I do).
And one of the original Theta founders, Mike Moffet (Schit Audio) also doesn't believe in the DAC doing the DSD decoding. I will tellyou - DSD sounds marvelous in my system and better than ever using the Microrendu! And I have a purpose built room with room treatments and yet Dirac still helps further.

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #10627 of 13178 Old 07-01-2016, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ANRE View Post
Not yet. Waiting for the 4A (with USB ?) .In October? Looking forward to DL.

Yesterday my MicroRendu was shipped, so hopefully that will be a step up from Squeezebox Touch. Roon life membership purchased last month.

I will use the m2Tec USB/SPDIF converter.

But isn't DoP a way of making DSD to PCM ? And could a firmware upgrade make Gen 8 accept DoP, or will you still need a DSD capable DAC for DoP files ?
Congrats. You are going to love the Microrendu. Keep in mind that as good as the Microrendu is, a better power supply and its sounds even [email protected]@

My understanding is that you need a DSD capable DAC to decode DSD, that DoP is the method by which the player transfers the DSD files to the DAC for playing!

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #10628 of 13178 Old 07-01-2016, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ANRE View Post
Not yet. Waiting for the 4A (with USB ?) .In October? Looking forward to DL.

Yesterday my MicroRendu was shipped, so hopefully that will be a step up from Squeezebox Touch. Roon life membership purchased last month.

I will use the m2Tec USB/SPDIF converter.

But isn't DoP a way of making DSD to PCM ? And could a firmware upgrade make Gen 8 accept DoP, or will you still need a DSD capable DAC for DoP files ?
USB to digital conversion is done by a small computer chip that is generally used by USB DACs. A really top notch external USB to digital converter, like the Berkely Audio, will give better sonics. Widescreen Review had an article a few years back reviewing a number of USB to digital converters and the Berkely came out on top! My bet is that for us high end crazy audiophiles, there will always be a reason to buy a mucho expensive USB to digital converter as opposed to doing it in our SSP!

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #10629 of 13178 Old 07-01-2016, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
I have a lot of my old SACDs that were ripped by a friend using the Sony Playstation 3 with a software mod, I'm all done with that, no more of that!

There is a site www.nativedsd.com which has mostly classical, some jazz, some good multi-channel (and stereo) downloads. www.acousticsounds.com also has some very limited multi-channel downloads. Also www.channelclassics.com which is classical.
www.nativedsd.com right now has a sale on some multi-channel, also stereo, DSDs. Including five of Kal Robinson's favorite [email protected]@@ Sign up for email lists at each site from which you may buy stuff for info on new and sale stuff periodically.

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #10630 of 13178 Old 07-01-2016, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
I could - but I don't, as I've got such a wealth of my own music collection including an awful lot of resolution higher than redbook!
May i suggest (read engurrage) you try Tidal hi-fi for the 30 days they offer for free.

http://tidal.com/us/try-now-e

There is a reason for me to say this, but I like you to discover it for your self.
Also it could happen my anticipations may not be correct, but I would be very suppriced if so.
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post #10631 of 13178 Old 07-01-2016, 12:15 PM
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May i suggest (read engurrage) you try Tidal hi-fi for the 30 days they offer for free.

http://tidal.com/us/try-now-e

There is a reason for me to say this, but I like you to discover it for your self.
Also it could happen my anticipations may not be correct, but I would be very suppriced if so.
Tidal I am sure will sound nice! But not as good as all my "audiophile" hi res [email protected]@@

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #10632 of 13178 Old 07-01-2016, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Congrats. You are going to love the Microrendu. Keep in mind that as good as the Microrendu is, a better power supply and its sounds even [email protected]@
That's why I'm waiting to order this revolutionary $395 PS
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f2...ply-1-a-28609/

It is my opinion that people should pay attention to obtain clean power for their components.
Prioritize the low consumption gear.
Power conditioner or a filter, may be the best investment / upgrade you can do.
Good (shielded) power cables as well.

What supprices me is that this is where no magazines or other Hifi gurus have not done any real comparisons.
Yes, many tests. All happy.

If ever measurements in the Hifi wold would count, it will be on power. Pure sience.
You can define benchmarks etc. Why has it not been done ?
Can Parker do on wine, we can do power requirements

Noise back to the mains. Your amplifier may be the worst. Polluting the whole system.
Even simple filters can help.

Still the need of power conditioners and filters will in most cases be very induvidual. Some will gain more than others.

I've been to a demonstration where the change of power "cleaner" where dramatic.
Which may tell more about how bad the supply initial was.

Power to the people
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post #10633 of 13178 Old 07-01-2016, 12:48 PM
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www.nativedsd.com right now has a sale on some multi-channel, also stereo, DSDs. Including five of Kal Robinson's favorite [email protected]@@ Sign up for email lists at each site from which you may buy stuff for info on new and sale stuff periodically.
Also 2L at https://shop.klicktrack.com/2l/? has both 2 channel and lots of multi-channel downloads.

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #10634 of 13178 Old 07-01-2016, 12:50 PM
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A really top notch external USB to digital converter, like the Berkely Audio, will give better sonics. Widescreen Review had an article a few years back reviewing a number of USB to digital converters and the Berkely came out on top!
I could not resist and emailed Berkely yesterday and asked it they could do a version where you add your own power

(Yes, of cause I have the UltraCap in mind).

Howevere my bet is that if you compare m2Tec Evo and such a version of Berklely, you could not hear any difference.

So maybe at a later stage, I upgrade my m2Tec PS

I give Theta a chance with their USB implementation as well - first !
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Tidal I am sure will sound nice! But not as good as all my "audiophile" hi res [email protected]@@
Well you have to be certain. Try !
And compare hires with 16 bit may not be fair.

But maybe Tidal can compete your hi res. Old upsampled HD tracks or ?

Anyway I was mostly thinking about your CD rips.

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post #10636 of 13178 Old 07-01-2016, 01:17 PM
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www.nativedsd.com right now has a sale on some multi-channel, also stereo, DSDs. Including five of Kal Robinson's favorite [email protected]@@ Sign up for email lists at each site from which you may buy stuff for info on new and sale stuff periodically.
How is your advice to be able to play DSD to Theata DAC's ? HQPlayer ?

DSD (from a file) is quite new to me, but since my Six Shooter had collected dust for quite a while I admit I miss playing Dark side of the moon in multichannel

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post #10637 of 13178 Old 07-01-2016, 02:15 PM
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How is your advice to be able to play DSD to Theata DAC's ? HQPlayer ?

DSD (from a file) is quite new to me, but since my Six Shooter had collected dust for quite a while I admit I miss playing Dark side of the moon in multichannel
JRiver, Roon, and HQPlayer can all downsample DSD to whatever you need - with Roon, with the CBIV SSP, which runs natively at 96-24, I find that setting Roon to 96-24 sounds the best (then Roon takes DSD and downsamples to 88-24).

I will warn you - though multi-channel sounds nice via HDMI to the CBIV SSP, 2 channel using the Berkely Audio USB to digital converter sounds appreciably better, and then when you add the Microrendu its super better, at least in terms of audio fidelity per channel. Still, good multi-channel mixes give you a surround presence that you may not get with the more super sounding stereo!

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #10638 of 13178 Old 07-04-2016, 04:52 PM
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Not yet. Waiting for the 4A (with USB ?) .In October? Looking forward to DL.

Yesterday my MicroRendu was shipped, so hopefully that will be a step up from Squeezebox Touch. Roon life membership purchased last month.

I will use the m2Tec USB/SPDIF converter.

But isn't DoP a way of making DSD to PCM ? And could a firmware upgrade make Gen 8 accept DoP, or will you still need a DSD capable DAC for DoP files ?
Anre, I'm not sure about DoP but I think that even though it's transmitted over SPDIF, your dac still needs a decoder on the receiving end otherwise the signal is just noise. That would mean new hardware most likely.

Ultimately,you want to get a Berkeley Alpha USB converter. I was using my Sound Devices USB pre for that purpose, a devices with very good specs, figuring I could make it work for some time. The Berkeley USB was several steps over it. The Berkeley Alpha just sounded so right that I haven't considered other methods which is why I don't know much about DoP.

I agree Tidal is great and even better with Roon. I had the trial and would love to see MQA implemented if it could be done without such an over-reaching approach. I'm just staunchly against the current approach of trying make everyone's gear obsolete with little media to even begin to justifying the take over of digital filter design for the entire industry.

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.

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post #10639 of 13178 Old 07-04-2016, 05:16 PM
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Anre, I'm not sure about DoP but I think that even though it's transmitted over SPDIF, your dac still needs a decoder on the receiving end otherwise the signal is just noise. That would mean new hardware most likely.
Yes. DoP is simply a way to convey DSD over S/PDIF to a DAC that can process DSD.

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post #10640 of 13178 Old 07-05-2016, 03:12 AM
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Yes. DoP is simply a way to convey DSD over S/PDIF to a DAC that can process DSD.
Thanks Kal. Then I suppose we should forget about DSD implementation on Theta. I understand that will never happen.
If one would like to play DSD, it's either to convert them in HQPlayer to PCM, or buy a second DAC that support DSD (without volume control to save money), and connect it to analogue in on Gen 8 or the Casa. Which I understand is how Steve B does it. (Only for 2 channel).
Multichannel only HMDI.
Very few DAC's support multichannel DSD
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...qQTNfVUE#gid=0

For the few multichannel SACD I own, I will use my Compli.

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Thanks Kal. Then I suppose we should forget about DSD implementation on Theta. I understand that will never happen.
If one would like to play DSD, it's either to convert them in HQPlayer to PCM, or buy a second DAC that support DSD (without volume control to save money), and connect it to analogue in on Gen 8 or the Casa. Which I understand is how Steve B does it. (Only for 2 channel).
Multichannel only HMDI.
Very few DAC's support multichannel DSD
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...qQTNfVUE#gid=0

For the few multichannel SACD I own, I will use my Compli.
I do not use any analog in to the CBIV SSP or my three Gen VIII DACs. Its all digital! For stereo, microrendu USB out into Berkely Audio USB to digital converter, then digital AES/EBU to CBIV SSP. For multi-channel, CAPSv3 HDMI out to CBIV SSP.

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #10642 of 13178 Old 07-05-2016, 11:24 AM
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I do not use any analog in to the CBIV SSP or my three Gen VIII DACs. Its all digital! For stereo, microrendu USB out into Berkely Audio USB to digital converter, then digital AES/EBU to CBIV SSP. For multi-channel, CAPSv3 HDMI out to CBIV SSP.
So you actually convert all your DSD's to PCM ? With HQPlayer ?

And this has a much better SQ where you can compare with the original? PCM recording ?

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I've heard much about the MicroRendu. To my understanding..you have to have a computer in that mix to use this device?
There is no way to connect an external drive to this, it's NAS only?
I may have been misleading you. It seems you can do without a computer. If you forget Roon.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f2...tml#post553558

What path have you decide to go for ?
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So you actually convert all your DSD's to PCM ? With HQPlayer ?

And this has a much better SQ where you can compare with the original? PCM recording ?
I do not use HQ Player. I use Roon. Roon will handle all PCM and up to 4 X DSD (maybe beyond, but I have no higher than 4 X DSD). I have found, as CBIV SSP processes with bass management and Dirac at 96-24, that using Roon to convert to 96-24 (and 88-24 for DSD) sounds the best and better than having Roon convert to 192-24 (and 176-24 for DSD) for output to the CBIV SSP.

I have files that are PCM (sample/bit rates 44-16, 44-24, 48-24, 88-24, 96-24, 176-24, 192-24) and also files that are DSD (1XDSD to 4XDSD). Stereo and multi-channel. Most of the DSD files are converted several years ago by a friend using Playstation 3 and firmware by Mr Wicked (over at Computer Audiophile forum - this conversion is a very tedious process - I then used JRiver to convert the resulting SACD ISO files to DSD files). I also buy stuff from online such as 2L, NativeDSD, Acoustic Sounds, HDTracks, ProStudioMasters,etc). Some of the files I buy online are DSD.

Its not that DSD sounds better than PCM. DSD is simply the format I converted to from ripped SACD ISO files. With Roon and the microrendu everything pretty much sounds outstanding and I can't necessarily differentiate whether I would prefer a DSD file vs a PCM file sonically.

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post #10645 of 13178 Old 07-05-2016, 01:30 PM
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...and have you started listening to Tidal ?
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post #10646 of 13178 Old 07-05-2016, 02:25 PM
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...and have you started listening to Tidal ?
please quit buggin' me about Tidal - I've got more than 5,000 albums and at this time I have no interest in Tidal!

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post #10647 of 13178 Old 07-05-2016, 08:17 PM
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For those of you who are interested in playing DSD in its native format, I would point you to the Cocktail Magic X-40 (http://www.cocktailaudio.com/overview_x40.php) which does two channel playback up to DSD 256. For multi-channel DSD, up to DSD 64, I use the Oppo 105D over HDMI. I transfer all of my high resolution files to a 256 USB from my computer and copy them to the Cocktail Magic. All of my DSD64 and high rez flac files are played over my network from the J River to the Oppo. I, personally, would never down convert high resolution audio files.
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post #10648 of 13178 Old 07-06-2016, 02:33 AM
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How do you rip your SACD's ?
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post #10649 of 13178 Old 07-06-2016, 09:41 AM
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Hybrid SACDs can be ripped as normal cds. I do not know of a ripping solution for standard SACDs. I've repurchased the SACD as a high-def download when available.
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post #10650 of 13178 Old 07-06-2016, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
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How do you rip your SACD's ?
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Hybrid SACDs can be ripped as normal cds. I do not know of a ripping solution for standard SACDs. I've repurchased the SACD as a high-def download when available.
For consumers, ripping the DSD layer of an SACD can be done using an older version of the PS3. AFAICT, the method is neither simple nor straightforward. Audiocircle has a couple of threads dedicated to this subject.

I've had the handful of non-hybrid SACD's I own ripped by a friend in this manner. For hybrids, I'm content to rip the redbook layer.
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