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post #11191 of 13052 Old 12-27-2016, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Stephen Terry View Post
WOW,
Haven't been to this thread in a while.
Time to start reading and get caught up.
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post #11192 of 13052 Old 12-27-2016, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
We also have a room above the system, but it's more of an issue with the bass (sub), rather than the surround speakers.

Dave
Hi Dave:
No doubt there is a limit to what any backer box will do when it comes to real bass. My instinct tells me that without undertaking a true soundproofing effort there is a limit to what can be done for to keep the bass from traveling to a room above your system. Like Steve, I have a pair of JL F212's and I am under no illusion that my approach will totally eliminate bass from traveling upstairs.
I will be tearing down my ceiling and stuffing Roxsul into it then adding a clip and rail system. Then a layer of LV-! wrap. Below that 2 layers of 5/8" wall board with Green Glue in-between. Of course I will have issues with other sources of "leakage" from structural issues I can't control such as sliding glass door frames and stairwells. But I will control what I can and hope for a diminution of bass transmission. I expect mids and highs will be well controlled.
The Dynabox appears to perform way better than one would expect. In combination with the soundproofed ceiling I believe I will have taken a reasonable approach to keeping the sound from the Atmos speakers output in my listening space and out of the living room above. I am not up for building a "room within a room" solution so short of that I hope I will be satisfied.
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post #11193 of 13052 Old 12-27-2016, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BP View Post
Hi Dave:
No doubt there is a limit to what any backer box will do when it comes to real bass. My instinct tells me that without undertaking a true soundproofing effort there is a limit to what can be done for to keep the bass from traveling to a room above your system. Like Steve, I have a pair of JL F212's and I am under no illusion that my approach will totally eliminate bass from traveling upstairs.
I will be tearing down my ceiling and stuffing Roxsul into it then adding a clip and rail system. Then a layer of LV-! wrap. Below that 2 layers of 5/8" wall board with Green Glue in-between. Of course I will have issues with other sources of "leakage" from structural issues I can't control such as sliding glass door frames and stairwells. But I will control what I can and hope for a diminution of bass transmission. I expect mids and highs will be well controlled.
The Dynabox appears to perform way better than one would expect. In combination with the soundproofed ceiling I believe I will have taken a reasonable approach to keeping the sound from the Atmos speakers output in my listening space and out of the living room above. I am not up for building a "room within a room" solution so short of that I hope I will be satisfied.
bp
I hope you come back and share the results of your efforts - I'll be very interested and may want to do something for my house as well.

Thanks,
Dave
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post #11194 of 13052 Old 12-28-2016, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by VGI View Post
Doog

We prefer them to be done by the factory. The front panel work is tricky and involves installing new lights and glass work etc. I am sure some people want to do this themselves but we coordinate with Theta to do this quick and painlessly when scheduled properly.

Thx
CRaig
I've done the "remove front panel and ship relevant parts to Theta for upgrade and reinstall on return" upgrade. Not hard but if you live in the US there's really little excuse for not shipping the unit to Theta. Hassle-free.

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post #11195 of 13052 Old 12-28-2016, 09:04 AM
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That's cause you are so busy with your band playin' [email protected]@@ Maybe someday you'll play here in Phoenix area and I'll have to come by!
Be great to see you again Steve!
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post #11196 of 13052 Old 12-28-2016, 08:00 PM
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Umm thanks; you've just delayed my retirement target by one month .

So for Atmos 7.1.4 you will need, NO exception:
1. Two six channel Premium 2 cards
2. Two six channel D3 cards (Even with Craig's magic; I won't be able to survive this level of damage LOL.)
3. One six channel Premium 2 + one six channel D3 (Best choice: there is close to zero reason IMHO to use Extreme-class card for surround channels IMHO. Not for 2% :-).)

To put it mildly, a special pricing program AND availability of 6 channel Premium 2 is an ABSOLUTE must if this Atmos upgrade is to become popular. Please work on this as the priority.

Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review (CB IVa setup help HERE) Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
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Last edited by cannga; 12-28-2016 at 08:14 PM.
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post #11197 of 13052 Old 12-28-2016, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Umm thanks; you've just delayed my retirement target by one month .

So for Atmos 7.1.4 you will need, NO exception:
1. Two six channel Premium 2 cards
2. Two six channel D3 cards (Even with Craig's magic; I won't be able to survive this level of damage LOL.)
3. One six channel Premium 2 + one six channel D3 (Best choice: there is close to zero reason IMHO to use Extreme-class card for surround channels IMHO. Not for 2% :-).)

To put it mildly, a special pricing program AND availability of 6 channel Premium 2 is an ABSOLUTE must if this Atmos upgrade is to become popular. Please work on this as the priority.
I have at times been criticized by a few friends as "overly anile" regarding this audio and home theater stuff! But all I have to do is show them your posts and they think my addiction is mild, and they ask if you have been to psychoanalysis! I don't tell them that's what you do for a living! HA!
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post #11198 of 13052 Old 12-28-2016, 09:41 PM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Umm thanks; you've just delayed my retirement target by one month .

So for Atmos 7.1.4 you will need, NO exception:
1. Two six channel Premium 2 cards
2. Two six channel D3 cards (Even with Craig's magic; I won't be able to survive this level of damage LOL.)
3. One six channel Premium 2 + one six channel D3 (Best choice: there is close to zero reason IMHO to use Extreme-class card for surround channels IMHO. Not for 2% :-).)

To put it mildly, a special pricing program AND availability of 6 channel Premium 2 is an ABSOLUTE must if this Atmos upgrade is to become popular. Please work on this as the priority.
Come on now! The stock market has gone up! Your investments have TRUMPED! Should make this Theta gear somewhat more affordable?
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post #11199 of 13052 Old 12-28-2016, 11:12 PM
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Steve, you're a good voice of reason and yes both S&P 500 & real estate have popped, putting this last minute Theta surprise meaningless in the overall scheme of things. Probably I was upset because this all but ruins bragging right that Casablanca could be had for under 20k . Fact is even with this change it should still come in at around 22-24k or so (?), with street pricing likely still undercutting other ultra class SSP's, and sound quality that sets the reference standard.

Fact is Theta got me hook, line, and sinker. I cannot go back to using any other SSP and actually feel very lucky that we got Atmos at all (missing this would have been a true disaster). What is MSRP for 6 channel D3 btw? Time to become a "Craig's whisperer" for that special street pricing LOL.

Assuming I understand VGI correctly, my requests for Theta stay the same:
1. Special upgrade pricing for new Premium 2 and Extreme D3 cards nearly a *must* as about 99% of your loyal customers have just been instantly left with useless and expensive cards.
2. 6 channel Premium card must be made a priority IMHO for Casablanca to remain attractive/competitive to normal people (ie people other than me :-)).

Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review (CB IVa setup help HERE) Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
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Last edited by cannga; 12-29-2016 at 08:37 AM.
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post #11200 of 13052 Old 12-29-2016, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by VGI View Post
Guys

We found out today that the Casablanca IVa (Atmos) will only be compatible with the Xtreme D3 Dac Cards.
Ugh you're kidding. How can this suddenly be "found out"? No one talks to the engineers working on the product? I never sold my two unused D2 cards on the grounds that I would use them in the IVa whenever I expanded to ATMOS. I could have sold them over a year ago, but was told they'd be good for the IVa. Craig, ping me an email/PM - I have two D2.

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post #11201 of 13052 Old 12-29-2016, 10:43 AM
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Disappointed

Craig,

Given that I just purchased the CBiv with two D2 cards, I must say i'm disappointed with this 'new' news. Had I known, I would have gone with 2 D3 cards. Clearly you were also surprised otherwise yiu woukd have provided different advice. Please send me an email re: special pricing from Theta.

Kind regards,

Mike
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post #11202 of 13052 Old 12-29-2016, 11:29 AM
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*** Update today from Theta *** CB4a Atmos

Theta Updated some things today so please disregard the post before.

What looks like will be the case is this -

Existing Premium and Xtreme cards will work fine in CB4a they just wont be able to be channelized for Ceilings. This is a whole lot better than the news we got yesterday. So if this is the case you would be able to use lets say your existing 2 extreme cards for 7.1 and you could add a Premium 2 or D3 for the 4 ceiling speakers whenever you like.

WHEW this makes a lot more sense to us and hopefully you guys as well.

Happy New Year !!

Craig
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post #11203 of 13052 Old 12-29-2016, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Umm thanks; you've just delayed my retirement target by one month .

So for Atmos 7.1.4 you will need, NO exception:
1. Two six channel Premium 2 cards
2. Two six channel D3 cards (Even with Craig's magic; I won't be able to survive this level of damage LOL.)
3. One six channel Premium 2 + one six channel D3 (Best choice: there is close to zero reason IMHO to use Extreme-class card for surround channels IMHO. Not for 2% :-).)

To put it mildly, a special pricing program AND availability of 6 channel Premium 2 is an ABSOLUTE must if this Atmos upgrade is to become popular. Please work on this as the priority.
Can

I updated the info just now - Things all just changed for the better You can still retire on time
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post #11204 of 13052 Old 12-29-2016, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by VGI View Post
Can

I updated the info just now - Things all just changed for the better You can still retire on time

Ha Craig no more "bomb at the airport" type announcement please - some of us 50+ folks have a weak heart . VERY nice - the Casablanca that I bought from you will stay at sub 20k even after Atmos conversion, undercutting other ultra choices by several thousands.

When is estimate arrival time for Premium 2 please? My lineup (typical for most people I think) is as followed, hopefully this would work:
Xtreme: LCR and subwoof
Premium 1: Side and Rear Surrounds
Premium 2: 4 Ceilings

Last edited by cannga; 12-31-2016 at 09:35 AM.
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post #11205 of 13052 Old 12-29-2016, 11:48 AM
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Please keep going...

I already have 14 DAC channels for a processor that will only make use of 12. I was planning for the 6 D3 to manage 5.1 and 6 of the 8 D2 for the 2 'side' and 4 ceiling. Even a D2 for ceiling is complete overkill but then I own them already.

I wasn't planning on having to buy any new DAC.

What is it exactly about the D2 which means it can't be configured for ceiling speakers? Most peculiar...

Maybe this will be like the D3 which wasn't going to be able to fit in the CB IV/IVa.... and then it did.

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post #11206 of 13052 Old 12-30-2016, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by stevekale View Post
Please keep going...

I already have 14 DAC channels for a processor that will only make use of 12. I was planning for the 6 D3 to manage 5.1 and 6 of the 8 D2 for the 2 'side' and 4 ceiling. Even a D2 for ceiling is complete overkill but then I own them already.

I wasn't planning on having to buy any new DAC.

What is it exactly about the D2 which means it can't be configured for ceiling speakers? Most peculiar...

Maybe this will be like the D3 which wasn't going to be able to fit in the CB IV/IVa.... and then it did.
Steve

The Ceiling speakers require the Channelization Chips to be redone which Theta is not going to undertake right now unless maybe you are willing to pay for it Its very expensive and the old chips are no longer available. They would need to go back and redo these chips to be able to handle these channels and its too expensive and time consuming to do this. It could be 10-20K or more in time and programming and they could never recover this.

Buying a new P2 card for 1995 retail less whatever we the dealer give you for the old card etc is much smarter for everyone. We can't ask Theta to spend money on reworking 15 year old dac cards to be compatible with new Atmos level machines. I know you will have a reason they should but seriously if we require Theta to make every old legacy Dac card compatible forever they will not be around in the future. They need to spend their development money on new tech. I always look at both sides and in this case I have to agree with Theta that a person who is doing Atmos wont be to upset that he may have to replace one Dac card to be compatible.

Thx
Craig
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post #11207 of 13052 Old 12-30-2016, 02:29 PM
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What are D2 cards going for these days?

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post #11208 of 13052 Old 12-30-2016, 04:52 PM
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D2 Cards

In my situation, I just bought 2 new D2 cards, which are now obsolete since I intend to upgrade to atmos. Hope the trade in is good since it appears I should have gone with at least 1, if not 2 6-chqnnel D3s.

Happy New Year to all.

Mike
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post #11209 of 13052 Old 12-30-2016, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mjmtengu View Post
In my situation, I just bought 2 new D2 cards, which are now obsolete since I intend to upgrade to atmos. Hope the trade in is good since it appears I should have gone with at least 1, if not 2 6-chqnnel D3s.

Happy New Year to all.

Mike
Hi Mike, Happy New Year. Sorry to hear but actually I don't think you are in bad shape of all, as are nearly all of Theta owners. First IMHO I don't think you would want 12 channels of all Premium, it's a good idea to have at least LCR and Subwoof taken care by Xtreme. So in your case:

Xtreme D-2: LCR and Subwoof (no loss - card still compatible)
Xtreme D-2: Side and Rear Surrounds (here you could have gone new Premium 2, but no reason to go back since you already at Xtreme level previously & Xtreme *is* much better. So basically no loss - card still compatible)
New Premium 2: ceiling channels (this is the new card you would buy)

At any rate the ingenious ground level compatibility of old cards, AND availability of inexpensive new Premium 2 makes the situation perfect for most if not all owners.

Regards, Can
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Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).

Last edited by cannga; 12-30-2016 at 07:23 PM.
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post #11210 of 13052 Old 12-30-2016, 08:11 PM
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Hi Can,

That's not a bad solution you have proposed. However, my original plan was always to upgrade to D3 when moving to Atmos (i.e. A 4 or 6 D3 card); with this new information that won't be possible. I'll have to give Craig a call next week.

I'm new to the Theta world but love my decision to purchase!!!!

Kind regards,

Mike
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post #11211 of 13052 Old 12-31-2016, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mjmtengu View Post
Hi Can,

That's not a bad solution you have proposed. However, my original plan was always to upgrade to D3 when moving to Atmos (i.e. A 4 or 6 D3 card); with this new information that won't be possible. I'll have to give Craig a call next week.

I'm new to the Theta world but love my decision to purchase!!!!

Kind regards,

Mike
Oh I see - yes that's a problem. Hope it's not too bad for you since Xtreme D2 should still hold value - still being a better card for ground level channels than any Premium, 1 or 2. Time to be a "Craig's whisperer" & wishing you luck.

Yep can't go wrong with Theta; I am so fussy with sound that I cannot go back to anything else at this point. I was *a touch* :-) worried that Atmos upgrade wouldn't come (that would be an unmitigated disaster LOL) but now we know it's gonna be Hagen Dazs smooth sailing for the foreseeable future.

Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review (CB IVa setup help HERE) Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).

Last edited by cannga; 12-31-2016 at 10:06 AM.
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post #11212 of 13052 Old 12-31-2016, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VGI View Post
Theta Updated some things today so please disregard the post before.

What looks like will be the case is this -

Existing Premium and Xtreme cards will work fine in CB4a they just wont be able to be channelized for Ceilings. This is a whole lot better than the news we got yesterday. So if this is the case you would be able to use lets say your existing 2 extreme cards for 7.1 and you could add a Premium 2 or D3 for the 4 ceiling speakers whenever you like.

WHEW this makes a lot more sense to us and hopefully you guys as well.

Happy New Year !!

Craig
Craig,
For those of us which have a CBIV with 2 premium DACs, my understanding regarding this new information is as follows:

I would need a new 'Premium 2' DAC card for the ceiling channels along with the new Atmos/DTS X card.

Thanks and happy new year

My Home Theater Site:

https://imageshack.com/a/dPJl/1
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post #11213 of 13052 Old 01-01-2017, 07:07 AM
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Craig,
For those of us which have a CBIV with 2 premium DACs, my understanding regarding this new information is as follows:

I would need a new 'Premium 2' DAC card for the ceiling channels along with the new Atmos/DTS X card.

Thanks and happy new year


Craig had better say yes to this .

BTW after stating "ceiling only needs Premium, not Xtreme" I was told by someone (thank you) who had used Xtreme all around that there is an improvement when you use Xtreme all around. So for those lucky few (Steve Bruzonsky) - sure, two six-channel Xtreme D-3. But considering ceiling channels are small speakers xover'ed at 80 or above, 2 are behind you with sound blocked by pinnae, the Premium should be more than fine. At least that's my plan.

Regards, Can
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Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
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post #11214 of 13052 Old 01-01-2017, 05:59 PM
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Great news on the Casablanca IVA. Any new news on the Casablanca E?
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post #11215 of 13052 Old 01-01-2017, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Theta and Mc's View Post
Great news on the Casablanca IVA. Any new news on the Casablanca E?

No news and couldn't come soon enough. Without Wide channels Theta Casablanca IVa is dead in the water - Trinnov is a much better purchase since it has the all critical Wide's.

Regards, Can
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Last edited by cannga; 01-01-2017 at 09:30 PM.
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post #11216 of 13052 Old 01-03-2017, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Craig had better say yes to this .

BTW after stating "ceiling only needs Premium, not Xtreme" I was told by someone (thank you) who had used Xtreme all around that there is an improvement when you use Xtreme all around. So for those lucky few (Steve Bruzonsky) - sure, two six-channel Xtreme D-3. But considering ceiling channels are small speakers xover'ed at 80 or above, 2 are behind you with sound blocked by pinnae, the Premium should be more than fine. At least that's my plan.
Why would you need the highest quality DAC card for gunshots, explosions, and airplane engines?

I mean what else comes out of the ceiling speakers?

Ditto that for the amps driving the celing and wides as well, no need for top quality here either.
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post #11217 of 13052 Old 01-03-2017, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
BTW after stating "ceiling only needs Premium, not Xtreme" I was told by someone (thank you) who had used Xtreme all around that there is an improvement when you use Xtreme all around. So for those lucky few (Steve Bruzonsky) - sure, two six-channel Xtreme D-3. But considering ceiling channels are small speakers xover'ed at 80 or above, 2 are behind you with sound blocked by pinnae, the Premium should be more than fine. At least that's my plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post
Why would you need the highest quality DAC card for gunshots, explosions, and airplane engines?

I mean what else comes out of the ceiling speakers?

Ditto that for the amps driving the celing and wides as well, no need for top quality here either.
Glimmie, Cannga was quoting me regarding my 5.1 system, not Atmos yet! All of us agree with you regarding the Atmos speakers (I think)!

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
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post #11218 of 13052 Old 01-03-2017, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post
Why would you need the highest quality DAC card for gunshots, explosions, and airplane engines?

I mean what else comes out of the ceiling speakers?

Ditto that for the amps driving the celing and wides as well, no need for top quality here either.

Glimmie see Steve's response. "Mr. Theta" Steve B. is fairly hard core and has Xtreme Cards all around.


My position has always been that if budget is an issue, for ceiling all you need is Premium and small amp (I use Krell 100 W/channel). Ceiling speakers are small, crossover'ed at 80 hz or so, the one behind you way off axis and blocked by pinnae, etc. The drama of a movie, imaging, soundstage, all belong to first Center, then L/R and subwoof. There, I do recommend Xtreme class card.


But then, didn't some famous singer comment about there's what you need, and there's what you want?

Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review (CB IVa setup help HERE) Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).

Last edited by cannga; 01-03-2017 at 04:31 PM.
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post #11219 of 13052 Old 01-03-2017, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Glimmie see Steve's response. "Mr. Theta" Steve B. is fairly hard core and have Xtreme Cards all around.


My position has always been that if budget is an issue, for ceiling all you need is Premium and small amp (I use Krell 100 W/channel). Ceiling speakers are small, crossover'ed at 80 hz or so, the one behind you way off axis and blocked by pinnae, etc. The drama of a movie, imaging, soundstage, all belong to first Center, then L/R and subwoof. There, I do recommend Xtreme class card.


But then, didn't some famous singer commented about there's what you need, and there's what you want?
I thinking more about it, say a 747 flies overhead. Does it have Rolls Royce, GE, or Pratt & Whitney engines?

Only those with Xtreme DACS on their ceiling channels will know for sure

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post #11220 of 13052 Old 01-03-2017, 10:40 AM
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For owners currently with all Premium's, I see some sweet deals for the older Xtreme card on Audiogon, $1100 is "xtremely" nice :-): https://www.audiogon.com/listings/pr...-boca-raton-fl
The problem is that for the deal to work, you'll have to be able to trade in your Premium card. In other words:
1. Your First Old Premium - Trade in for older Xtreme, for LCR & Subwoof
2. Your Second Old Premium - No change - still used for Surround Side and Rear
3. New Premium 2 - you have to buy for ceilings.

I once did shootout between old Premium and old Xtreme. By assigning LCR to both my Premium and Xtreme card, I was able to do instantanous AB switch - the instant switch makes difference very easy to notice. The Xtreme is more transparent; it brings details and clarity to images and soundstage. I very highly recommend it.

Does anyone know how many generations of Xtreme there have been, 3? Xtreme, Xtreme D-2, Xtreme D-3???

Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review (CB IVa setup help HERE) Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).

Last edited by cannga; 01-03-2017 at 04:32 PM.
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