The official Theta Owners Thread - Page 420 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12571 of 12963 Old 08-26-2018, 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post
How do you like the new amps?
They are just fantastic. I was expecting better bass, but what really surprised me was the huge soundstage. Totally 3D.
My lack of good superlatives in English prohibits me for a long description, but I agree in everything others have written.
Probably mine sounds even better, cause 220 VAC is better for HiFi than 120 according to Charles Hanson.
(Se Ayre thread in CA)
And 220 is available for most of you Americans as well if I understand his description how to get that voltage.

My friend who is a tube lover, and not a fan of class D amps, was so impressed he purchased a pair of used ones to a very very nice price. (NOK 45K).

I’m at the moment only using my G8. Haven’t even add power to my CB4a yet. Nor my 8 channel ATI Hypex amp.

I bought a bunch of used Dali Fazon for sertting up Atmos. Hopefully I will manage to install befor Xmas.

The other day I added my two B&W ASW675 to the RCA output of my G8. So my Odyssey’s now have more than enough bass.
Room correction is added directly into Roon using the SonicTransporter i5. I will experiment with HQPLAYER as well, but implemented on my HTPC, it didn’t sound better, so it has to be on SonicTransporter. Which is cheaper ($220) bought directly from SGC. SW is then locked to you SonicTransporter.

The RC is done by the French guy behind HAF.

It will be interesting to compare to Dirac when that times come. As well as compare G8 to CB4a.

I’m keeping my G8 for a while, as the official Thata statement is and have always been that the G8 is their top of the line DAC. And I expect it to be upgraded at some time. And I understand Craig is selling a lot of them as well. It’s an extremely well built DAC. And deserves RAAT implementation and possibly MQA.

My primary reason for staying with Theta is when I at the time, maybe 10 years ago, start looking for equipment that could both do high end stereo and HT, there was more or less no other brand to select. And I think that’s still the case.

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post #12572 of 12963 Old 08-26-2018, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by gbabu5Y View Post
I am contemplating buying a CB3 HD with 4k, and 2 premium DACs. But it doesn't have DIRAC like in CB4.
Currently have a Krell Foundation that can be set up using ARES. So, I am hesitant to buy something without room correction software.
Being a new potential user of Theta, I am looking for some input from veteran Theta CB users.

Will I be able to set up CB3 manually that will sound as good or at least close to as good that is set up using DIRAC? Or is it going to be quite a big difference in SQ due to not using DIRAC?
Is there any option to use external Room Correction equipment paired with CB3? Like - can I use MiniDSP DDRC-88A Dirac Live processor by setting it up in between my Source Oppo and Theta CB3 to accomplish what comes as integral part of CB4? This is possibly a $1000 investment.

I will use 5.2 set up with two Rythmik Subs and Revel Speakers.

Will appreciate any help!
Maybe you find this interesting:
https://www.homeaudiofidelity.com/

If you plan to use Roon, this is what you want Cheap end easy.

Another option, and one of the best SW is http://juicehifi.com

You can find a lot of reviews and help on RC at CA or Roon user forum.
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post #12573 of 12963 Old 08-26-2018, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
BTW, hint for yet another rumor: if your processor has 3 card slots, and each slot could hold 6 DAC's, how many channels is the processor capable of? 3x6=18

I have no plan to go beyond 7.1.4 (diminishing return from demo's I've heard and definitely not necessary for small rooms), but 18 is a nice number and 11.1.6 would be fairly cool for those who like more channels. Please remember though this is only rumor, and that Theta has always operated in a parallel time-space continuum.

The ultra-talented engineer David Kerstetter (formerly @ DTS https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-kerstetter-3b13834) is a Theta "consultant," so there is hope that the 2 universes, Theta's and ours, may yet meet!
I rather like 7.4.4 or as a minimum 7.2.4.

I find it quite strange that the new SW only allows for one sub, but the old did 4 subs.

Also we’re still limited to 24/96 in multichannel ?
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post #12574 of 12963 Old 08-26-2018, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
I just did a firmware upgrade for the latest CBIVA version which John Baloff emailed to me. Yea, at the very start of an album the track cut off for a tiny tad - no longer, not an issue anymore. Sonically appears to be the same as prior beta firmware. Accepts via digital coaxial/AES/EBU 44k, 48k, 88k, 96k and 192k. Doesn't accept 176k. with ROON and CBIVA, sounds best upsampling/downsampling to 96k & 88k anyway, because the CBIVA internally processes at 96k. If I used ROON to upsample/downsample to 192k & 176k (if CBIVA accepted AES/EBU 176k, which it doesn't), it doesn't sound quite as good, as using 96k & 88k, because then the CVIVA would have to do an extra step of sample rate converting to 96k & 88k. Over the years and recently I have confirmed this by listening. And John Baloff mentioned today that this makes sense to him as well.
Another reason to keep me G8

So you the use the custom settings in Roon then and set everything to 96 or 88 ?

Here is my present settings:
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post #12575 of 12963 Old 08-26-2018, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
That would be phenomenal but whether it is doable at what Theta and consumers consider is a reasonable cost is the big question! Theta is likely working on 2 channel usb input first to determine if that is worthwhile.
Did the actually tell you on which unit ?

And what did they say about RAAT which I consider more important as we then should expect best SQ and also get rid of a computer in our system. (Well still a NUC or a SonicTransporter or similar, but that can be located somewhere else)
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post #12576 of 12963 Old 08-26-2018, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Ron Party View Post

As an alternative or in conjunction, Theta should develop and implement an ethernet input. Run a cable from the router and be done, all formats audio and video.
Exactly !!!!

HMDI for MC is already covered. It’s just that there isn’t any endpoint developed yet for HMDI MC music. Only movies 🎥

Not sure how well Apple TV with Roon is doing. Steve, can you tell us ? I think there is some limitations.
I also think the latest Oppo won’t do MC music?

Think if Sony could release the SACD for digital input on MC via HMDI or ethernet using RAAT.
Anyway that’s DSD ? So not something Thata could support in any case or ?
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post #12577 of 12963 Old 08-26-2018, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by gbabu5Y View Post
Thank you much! However, my concern is regarding the level of difficulty to setup CB III properly without help of DIRAC. Folks are raving about DIRAC and commenting it makes a huge difference when using vs NOT using it. Of course I am aware that there are some people who prefer not to use any room correction software. Some others use it only for correcting lower frequencies.
Will I be able to have the true Theta SQ and benefit even without a DIRAC? Is there any workaround if I don't have it?
That CB has something all later CB lacks. A fantastic OSD software. Called Crystal.

The CB has never been easier to set up. And will help you understand how to later set up new versions of the CB.
But you would need a Six Shooter also now then ? Graig says he trows them away, maybe he give you one for free

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post #12578 of 12963 Old 08-26-2018, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by gbabu5Y View Post
It has Premium card, so there is the possible upgrade potential to Xtreme, I guess. Yes - the price is good, moreover, I am buying from a nice gentleman I feel comfortable to deal with.
It is the best news for me to know that CB III sounds really great even without DIRAC!
.
I trade in my two Xtreme. Call Craig. He probably has a good price for you if not sold yet.
Also anyone my old digital out card bought from Bulldogger is still laying around in the shelf’s somewhere at Theta, if Craig didn’t tell them to trow it
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post #12579 of 12963 Old 08-26-2018, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ANRE View Post
I rather like 7.4.4 or as a minimum 7.2.4.

I find it quite strange that the new SW only allows for one sub, but the old did 4 subs.

Also we’re still limited to 24/96 in multichannel ?
what do you mean you can only use one sub? I don't own a CB IV, but was thinking about it...however, I run stereo subs with my Classe SSP-800 and it's replacement needs to be able to do the same. thanx.

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post #12580 of 12963 Old 08-26-2018, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ANRE View Post
Another reason to keep me G8

So you the use the custom settings in Roon then and set everything to 96 or 88 ?

Here is my present settings:
Thanks for posting your settings I did not know Roon had that custom sample rate conversion page.

If you have a CBIVa than the 176KHz sample rate will not work into the AES/EBU or coax, two channel input. It works fine for the HDMI input.

The question of sound quality would depend on which device, Roon or the CBIVa, has a better decimation filter and if the difference is audible. YMMV
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post #12581 of 12963 Old 08-26-2018, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by 7ryder View Post
what do you mean you can only use one sub? I don't own a CB IV, but was thinking about it...however, I run stereo subs with my Classe SSP-800 and it's replacement needs to be able to do the same. thanx.
I'm pretty sure that this is a limitation of the Dirac room correction software. The CB used to support multiple subwoofer outputs but the CBIVa only supports a single sub out.

A Y-splitter solves the multiple sub output reasonably well. I have Velodyne subs that have the ability to daisy-chain the sub outs; this is how I have my two subs connected.
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post #12582 of 12963 Old 08-26-2018, 10:36 AM
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Thanks. I can slave one sub to the other if needed, but I would really like the ability to do room correction on each sub...maybe Dirac V2.0 will do this?

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post #12583 of 12963 Old 08-26-2018, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by 7ryder View Post
Thanks. I can slave one sub to the other if needed, but I would really like the ability to do room correction on each sub...maybe Dirac V2.0 will do this?
This is a mind twister that I am not too certain about, but in as much as multiple subwoofers smooth room response, is it not better to correct multiple subwoofers as a group (sum response first, then correct), rather than individual subwoofer (correct first, then sum)?

There should be less difficult correction of nulls etc. with the former method, I think.

Regards, Can
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post #12584 of 12963 Old 08-26-2018, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Yes, yes, and yes. Theta for many years was only a 2 channel ultra high-end company. It made its reputation on one of the first stand alone DA converters ever designed, the landmark Theta Pro. (Theta Pro was in fact part of the start of the high-end digital "revolution." At that point the all-digitals-sound-the-same concept was the order of the day and Sony CD player was supposedly all you need.)

The "house sound" of Theta is based on multiple factors (the 3 main sections of a DAC):
1. hefty power supply design (the power supply design of Casablanca puts competitors to shame),
2. top DAC chip/digital stage design,
3. last, and perhaps, MOST important, the AUDIOPHILE :-) analog stage design.

The Theta "sound" is an accumulation of 1-3 above, not because of Dirac. You will hear the qualities (layered soundstage, clean/punchy/powerful bass, separation of instruments, "black" background - LOL, no flame guys ) without Dirac. As a long time Krell man, I am confident to say, preamp design is never Krell's strong point, Dan D'Agostino or not, and you WILL be pleased how much better Casablanca is. Casablanca III HD was, and still is, a "killer."

Give the III HD a try, if you like it, upgrade to IV. As mentioned, IV is highly recommended because of not just Dirac, but Atmos, and 4k video pass through as well.
BTW the Theta Pro mentioned above underwent several upgrade generations, and eventually became the take-no-prisoner Theta Pro Gen 8 that nutty people like @ANRE are still using, and loving, these days.

FWIW, I got into the Theta game at the very beginning, early 90's, as well, but went for the little brother Pro Basic, hot rodded with ALPS volume control and in essence was a digital preamp. Those were the days of Neil Sinclair and Mike Moffat (now at Schitt), one of whom has a nice red Ferrari that used to park in front of the office LOL.

Regards, Can
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post #12585 of 12963 Old 08-26-2018, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 7ryder View Post
Thanks. I can slave one sub to the other if needed, but I would really like the ability to do room correction on each sub...maybe Dirac V2.0 will do this?
Yes, you need to slave. The 4a is pure 7.1.4. However, if i got it right, nothing should stop you from go in go the dealer setup menu and cahange into a 5.4 or 7.4 setup. But it needs to be confirmed.

I have no idea if Dirac add limits here as well. I was only talking about Theta possible configurations.
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post #12586 of 12963 Old 08-26-2018, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ANRE View Post
Well it would still be interesting to know if Theta is willing to implement MQA or not.
We actally don’t know how well it will sound on Theta DAC before it’s done.

And will it be done only on G8 or latest DAC in CB or both ?

Stereofile has written a lot about MQA. Se links under in the CA thread.

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...qa-is-elegant/
ROON now handles MQA. If the DAC doesn't (like Theta Casablanca IVa), ROON will still unpack up to 96-24, at least that's my understanding, I haven't used MQA. And as the CBIVA processes at 96-24, there's no additional sonic benefit whether or not the CB platform ever does ROON. Unless of course you are using a digital out card with a Theta Gen VIII Series 3 DAC.

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post #12587 of 12963 Old 08-26-2018, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ANRE View Post
Another reason to keep me G8

So you the use the custom settings in Roon then and set everything to 96 or 88 ?

Here is my present settings:
So you the use the custom settings in Roon then and set everything to 96 or 88 ? YES, because I no longer use outboard Gen VIII DACs, but the internal D3 DACs with the CBIVa internal processing at 96-24. If I used a Gen VIII then I would set ROON to 192-24 & 176-24 like you do.

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post #12588 of 12963 Old 08-26-2018, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ANRE View Post
Did the actually tell you on which unit ?

And what did they say about RAAT which I consider more important as we then should expect best SQ and also get rid of a computer in our system. (Well still a NUC or a SonicTransporter or similar, but that can be located somewhere else)
I have heard nothing about Theta upgrading the Gen VIII DAC and as standalone DAC competition is so great I doubt it! DARN!

By the way, I just went to the Sonic Transporter i7 for ROON DSP, out with the Sonic Transporter i5, because the i7 has bridged dual ethernet connections so it can connect both to the ethernet switcher and direct to my Sonore Signature Rendu SE. Some improved sonics. Also, I have my Berkely Audio USB converter on top of my Sonore Signature Rendu, at angle, now so I can use a short 200mm Curious Cable USB Link, again improved sonics.

My impression from my conversation with John Baloff is right now, Theta is only working on 2 channel USB for the CB platform to see how that sounds and if its cost effective. Now perhaps if this ends up being successful Theta might investigate multi-channel USB for the CB platform. Its ATI's $$$$$ invested in this project to one can expect one step at a time and of course us having a great continuing deal of patience for years at a time, as in the past.

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post #12589 of 12963 Old 08-26-2018, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ANRE View Post
Exactly !!!!

HMDI for MC is already covered. It’s just that there isn’t any endpoint developed yet for HMDI MC music. Only movies 🎥

Not sure how well Apple TV with Roon is doing. Steve, can you tell us ? I think there is some limitations.
I also think the latest Oppo won’t do MC music?

Think if Sony could release the SACD for digital input on MC via HMDI or ethernet using RAAT.
Anyway that’s DSD ? So not something Thata could support in any case or ?
I can' tell you about Apple TV with ROON. I can tell you Oppo 205 is limited to 2 channel ROON and I do not use the 205 with ROON, my Sonic Transporter (now i7) sounds much better.

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post #12590 of 12963 Old 08-26-2018, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 7ryder View Post
Thanks. I can slave one sub to the other if needed, but I would really like the ability to do room correction on each sub...maybe Dirac V2.0 will do this?
Do your subs have built in correction? With the Velodynes, I do a room correction on each sub with their own built in EQs and then connect the daisy-chain and run Dirac. This gets the major room correction done on the individual subs and the fine turning and main speaker balance/crossover done with Dirac.
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post #12591 of 12963 Old 08-27-2018, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
ROON now handles MQA. If the DAC doesn't (like Theta Casablanca IVa), ROON will still unpack up to 96-24, at least that's my understanding, I haven't used MQA. And as the CBIVA processes at 96-24, there's no additional sonic benefit whether or not the CB platform ever does ROON. Unless of course you are using a digital out card with a Theta Gen VIII Series 3 DAC.

Are you saying that you have set your Roon to not unpack masters from Tidal ?
The normally only reason to do so is if you have a DAC that supports MQA. I would suggest you set Roon to do the first unfold. Then you get 24/96 into the CB.


If your observation is that Tidal Masters sounds better to not have MQA unfolded by Ronon and in addition let the CB up sample, then that's is interesting. Please confirm.



I'm not getting you point with regards to MQA and using the G8. Maybe your saying I can up sample in Roon to 192 after the first unfold ?


Your statement there is no sonical benefit if the Theta DAC's will be MQA certified seems a bit odd, especially since you can't know unless MQA is implementet or not to the Theta.
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post #12592 of 12963 Old 08-27-2018, 05:24 AM
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Are you saying that you have set your Roon to not unpack masters from Tidal ?
The normally only reason to do so is if you have a DAC that supports MQA. I would suggest you set Roon to do the first unfold. Then you get 24/96 into the CB.


If your observation is that Tidal Masters sounds better to not have MQA unfolded by Ronon and in addition let the CB up sample, then that's is interesting. Please confirm.



I'm not getting you point with regards to MQA and using the G8. Maybe your saying I can up sample in Roon to 192 after the first unfold ?


Your statement there is no sonical benefit if the Theta DAC's will be MQA certified seems a bit odd, especially since you can't know unless MQA is implementet or not to the Theta.
TIDAL usually has both Redbook and MQA versions of the same album. Notice I didn't say the same recording, since MQA recordings don't appear to be the same master as their Redbook counterparts. If you prefer Redbook, like I do, just use the that version.

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post #12593 of 12963 Old 08-27-2018, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jjwinterberg View Post
Do your subs have built in correction? With the Velodynes, I do a room correction on each sub with their own built in EQs and then connect the daisy-chain and run Dirac. This gets the major room correction done on the individual subs and the fine turning and main speaker balance/crossover done with Dirac.
My understanding is that as Dirac does both frequency and time correction, best just to use Dirac and not to use the subs EQ. I don't use my JL Audio f212 subs(2) EQ for this reason.

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post #12594 of 12963 Old 08-27-2018, 10:38 AM
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Are you saying that you have set your Roon to not unpack masters from Tidal ?
The normally only reason to do so is if you have a DAC that supports MQA. I would suggest you set Roon to do the first unfold. Then you get 24/96 into the CB.


If your observation is that Tidal Masters sounds better to not have MQA unfolded by Ronon and in addition let the CB up sample, then that's is interesting. Please confirm.



I'm not getting you point with regards to MQA and using the G8. Maybe your saying I can up sample in Roon to 192 after the first unfold ?


Your statement there is no sonical benefit if the Theta DAC's will be MQA certified seems a bit odd, especially since you can't know unless MQA is implementet or not to the Theta.
? ? ? Does it ever stop

I don't do TIDAL. I have loads of music 11TB+ much in non-MQA high res. And I have doubts there will be any further upgrades to the Gen VIII DAC, as the DAC competition is so high as I doubt ATI will devote more resources there at least for the forseeable future. My speculation of course based on understanding capitalism, profit and loss!

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post #12595 of 12963 Old 08-27-2018, 10:44 AM
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My understanding is that as Dirac does both frequency and time correction, best just to use Dirac and not to use the subs EQ. I don't use my JL Audio f212 subs(2) EQ for this reason.
If you haven't tried it, don't knock it.
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post #12596 of 12963 Old 08-27-2018, 11:16 AM
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If you haven't tried it, don't knock it.
Out of time, out of phase, frequency correct, if that is your game, and its ok with your dame, and you are happy even if the sonics are sappy!

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post #12597 of 12963 Old 08-27-2018, 11:26 AM
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Out of time, out of phase, frequency correct, if that is your game, and its ok with your dame, and you are happy even if the sonics are sappy!
Sorry, I forgot this is the Steve Bruzonsky is always right Thread.


But seriously, if one has the parametric equalizers in the sub engaged when the Dirac measurements are taken, why doesn't the filter response created by Dirac include the phase corrections for the sub's parametric equalizers?


This is the method recommended by Velodyne.
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post #12598 of 12963 Old 08-27-2018, 12:04 PM
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Sorry, I forgot this is the Steve Bruzonsky is always right Thread.


But seriously, if one has the parametric equalizers in the sub engaged when the Dirac measurements are taken, why doesn't the filter response created by Dirac include the phase corrections for the sub's parametric equalizers?


This is the method recommended by Velodyne.
Good question! I discussed this with several techies who recommended just using Dirac! My guess I that once EQ alone without Time phase correction that perhaps it can’t be 100% correctly reconstructed by Dirac.

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post #12599 of 12963 Old 08-27-2018, 01:30 PM
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Good question! I discussed this with several techies who recommended just using Dirac! My guess I that once EQ alone without Time phase correction that perhaps it can’t be 100% correctly reconstructed by Dirac.
I don't know if the "Techies" that you speak of, were just trying to make your life easier or if they thought there should be an audible difference. I do know that when Dirac measures the impulse response of your subs, it is measuring the output of the sub, including any frequency dependent phase (group delay) variations, and the room response. Dirac cannot tell if the sub response variations are due to any of the underlying causes (room, sub eq/amp, speaker).


I've seen reviews and your photos of your listening room and I'm guessing that your room is pretty bass response optimized. This is one reason that you might not see much difference using the sub's equalizer or not. I'm in a multi-purpose, very irregularly shaped, room. I do think that in my situation individually optimizing my sub responses prior to Dirac is beneficial.


The only way to know is to try. And I know how many hours it's taken me to dial in my system, so I know that trying different approaches and configurations can be a real PITA. I was only trying to offer @7ryder an approach that would allow him to individually optimize his subs with the CB and Dirac.
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post #12600 of 12963 Old 08-27-2018, 03:32 PM
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And I appreciate the help @jjwinterberg ! And I've also heard that the new release of Dirac will allow for two subs. That said, no idea when Theta might offer it in the CB...

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