The official Theta Owners Thread - Page 428 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12811 of 13104 Old 03-27-2019, 04:26 PM
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Angry Surprised!

Wow, Steve, that's surprising! AS another LONG TIME Theta fan, and Forum member...I'm very sad to 'see you go'!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Anyone who wants to upgrade to the best SSP DAC card (6 channel Extreme D3) available private message me here on AVS with your email and phone so we can discuss. I have one for sale!

After all these years of being The THETALUVER, I remain a Theta lover, with 5 Promethus monoblocks, but I have just sold my CBIV-A SSP with one Extreme D3 6 channel DAC card, and the 2nd 6 channel D3 card is for sale. Thanks to Neil Sinclair and since 2007 Morris Kessler as owners of Theta Digital for all their friendship and my enjoyment of their products all these years.

I just needed to make some life changes. Between my wife suddently passing away 6.5 years ago, and I should have died from an appendix rupture several months ago but instead I am healed and better than ever, I decided to enjoy some stuff now and not wait. And home theater and audio are one big passion for me.

I know the Casablanca V, when it becomes available, will be great! But that's down the road some, after Texas Instruments makes available a brand new 18 channel 96-24 DSP, and after Dirac makes their latest room correction available with coding for Theta to use in the CBV. I suspect this is no earlier than one year down the road, maybe two or more. As a loyal Theta owner, its always been worth it, as the upgrade cost has always been reasonable with great results.

But I wanted to add more speakers now; and have easier remote control and setup of everything from my laptop and iPad Pro and iPhone; and be ROON Ready for system simplification, while I am hopefully still in good health and alive. Just don't have the patient, perhaps the time, to keep waiting as I have for years. So I have a new SSP, however, I am not going to discuss the brand or model in this thread, this is a Theta thread. Theta Digital/ATI puts out fantastic products and I'm sure when the CBV comes out it will be, and that it will also be ROON Ready as well!

I might add that although I got a decent price for my used CBIV-A SSP with one 6 channel Extreme DAC card, and I expect to get a good price on my 2nd DAC card as well, I have still had to shell out substantial additional funds, withdrawn from my retirement stash, to change SSPs alone. Inotherwards, particularly if you already own a Casablanca, you can upgrade to the latest for a lot less $$ than buying something new like I have done! And then add to that the additional speakers, etc I am adding and the cost. I guess at almost age 66 this AV Addiction is hitting me $$$$$ hard!

So if anyone wants to buy the best 6 channel SSP DAC, the Extreme D3, known to man, private message me with your info!
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post #12812 of 13104 Old 03-27-2019, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stacy11 View Post
Wow, Steve, that's surprising! AS another LONG TIME Theta fan, and Forum member...I'm very sad to 'see you go'!
Yea - its been some changes, including a longtime friend/dealer no more!

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!

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post #12813 of 13104 Old 03-28-2019, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Hey, I still own 5 Theta Digital Prometheus monoblocks which will be used upfront in my revised theatre system with five Aerial Acoustics 7ts for front left and right, center, and surrounds (front wide left and right)! And an ATI multi-channel amp and will be getting another one, as adding four Aerial 7LCRs for side and rear surround. And adding more ceiling speakers. And more subwoofers! Decided that since I survived my burst appendix, got to enjoy life while I can! HA! My new SSP (if you hunt you can find out in another thread here) has 24 channels, and I will be using at least 20 of them!
Steve

You should offer Theta to become their CB V beta tester 😀

The only problem may be that Theta wouldn’t know how to make sure you keep quiet 😂

You for sure has the perfect lab...
Is 8K next upgrade?
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post #12814 of 13104 Old 03-28-2019, 05:28 AM
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This is something I would like to see from Theta soon

https://www.audiostream.com/content/...leven-products

RAAT on Gen VIII as first possible upgrade.

Anyone knows what’s in the pipeline ?
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post #12815 of 13104 Old 03-28-2019, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
You have no idea - I have beta tested in the past and kept QUIET!

8k IS NOT the next upgrade. I have up to 24 channels and looks like I will be filling in at least 18 channels and 4 subwoofers!
Congrats on your new lease on life Steve. As a guy on the other end of a burst appendix or two (or 500, lol) I understand that things don't always end up so nicely. I agree with your decision to enjoy the things that make you happy NOW rather than postponing until some undefined time in the future.

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post #12816 of 13104 Old 03-28-2019, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post
Congrats on your new lease on life Steve. As a guy on the other end of a burst appendix or two (or 500, lol) I understand that things don't always end up so nicely. I agree with your decision to enjoy the things that make you happy NOW rather than postponing until some undefined time in the future.
Yes - enjoy while I still have health and liberty to tweak, watch and listen [email protected]@@

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
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post #12817 of 13104 Old 03-29-2019, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
I might add that although I got a decent price for my used CBIV-A SSP with one 6 channel Extreme DAC card, and I expect to get a good price on my 2nd DAC card as well, I have still had to shell out substantial additional funds, withdrawn from my retirement stash, to change SSPs alone. Inotherwards, particularly if you already own a Casablanca, you can upgrade to the latest for a lot less $$ than buying something new like I have done! And then add to that the additional speakers, etc I am adding and the cost. I guess at almost age 66 this AV Addiction is hitting me $$$$$ hard!

So if anyone wants to buy the best 6 channel SSP DAC, the Extreme D3, known to man, private message me with your info!
I obviously should have bargained for a lower price
Thanks for making the deal so easy Steve, and thanks for your many contributions to this thread!
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post #12818 of 13104 Old 03-29-2019, 06:13 AM
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In 18 months from now. Maybe 24. I think Steve will trade in his Trinnow with a CB5 😂

CB is the top of the line SSP from ATI. It’s easier to create a computer SSP, which is what the Trinnov is. More noise. But for multichannel I think it’s OK. I want the best of both MC and stereo. That’s why I stay with Gen8 S3+ the CB4a.

Steve:
Will the CB5 be an upgrade from the present CB chassis’s ?
What version of Dirac ? Or will the CB4a offer a Dirac upgrade?
Will there finally be a LCD (or similar) display?

Is the Roon implementation only meant for CB5, or will the CB4a also be offered with Roon Ready ?

What about a proper control app similar to the old Crystal SW ?
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post #12819 of 13104 Old 03-29-2019, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
...I am not going to get into comparing apples and oranges in this thread! This is a Theta Digital thread! Theta Digital makes wonderful products and has a fantastic upgrade program for the Casablanca SSP! If I had stayed waiting for the CBV I would have saved a lotta money and a lotta new speakers! I will not get into sonic comparisons in this Theta thread - I will only say that Theta Digital owners have good reason to be happy and stay happy! And I have no doubt that when the Casablanca V becomes available, it will be ROON Ready and this implementation will sound great as well (because at last CEDIA I confirmed with Morris Kessler/ATI/Theta Digital and the head honch of ROON that Morris got with them and they were giving Theta Digital what they needed to make the CB ROON Ready)!
Well said!

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post #12820 of 13104 Old 03-29-2019, 10:09 AM
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From on David to another - welcome to the Theta CB club David (dweltman)




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post #12821 of 13104 Old 03-31-2019, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Again one must be careful, easy to blow tweeters as that's where most hearing loss occurs (I should know - that is - about blowing tweeters)!
I figured out the solution for that some years back, speakers with multiple tweeters. I use Mcintosh XR200 speakers. Mcintosh uses multiple tweeters and mid-ranges configured as a point source. These are not line arrays. Inductors are used to "bend the phase" of the outside drivers to accomplish this.

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post #12822 of 13104 Old 04-02-2019, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ANRE View Post
This is something I would like to see from Theta soon

https://www.audiostream.com/content/...leven-products

RAAT on Gen VIII as first possible upgrade.

Anyone knows what’s in the pipeline ?
I wondered if there might it might be possible to have one more upgrade to the Gen VIII before Theta perhaps moved away from it. David Reich improved the power supply of the Casablanca and I am wondering if he might do the same for the Gen VIII. I was looking at the power supply of this much cheaper dac, that sparked the idea https://www.denafrips.com/terminator . I was also wondering about the quality, because of the age of the design, of the clocks used for both 48Khz and 44Khz. Could the Gen VIII use newer and better clocks?

Other things, on some of the newer dacs are of course a USB inputs. Recently, I found it however interesting in the review of Emm Labs 25k dac, that the balanced input was still the best sounding input. https://www.stereophile.com/content/...2-da-processor . HDMI inputs are also on some of the newer dac. I have no interest in those but other might.

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post #12823 of 13104 Old 04-02-2019, 05:35 PM
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CB is the top of the line SSP from ATI. It’s easier to create a computer SSP, which is what the Trinnov is. More noise. But for multichannel I think it’s OK. I want the best of both MC and stereo. That’s why I stay with Gen8 S3+ the CB4a.


What about a proper control app similar to the old Crystal SW ?
Several others have told me, that Theta's once most ardent dealer is pushing his clients to Trinnov. At some point, there has to be a claim of superior sonics of the Trinnov processor. Anything else isn't going to attract the interest of Theta owners.

We are almost 20 years into a century that seemed new not so long ago, Y2K and all. Control of the Casablanca should reflect that. Theta has done owners of the Casablanca a great service by providing a spread sheet of the serial codes on it's website. This is a great help. Really there is nothing like custom control. I'd love an iPhone app, but my experience with apps is that the usually fall short of the capabilities of more dedicated AV control platforms. https://www.thetadigital.com/owners-manuals-pdfs/

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post #12824 of 13104 Old 04-02-2019, 05:48 PM
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This discussion about power supplies got me to thinking about the Gen VIII. Some have asked me why it is to big compared to Dac X? I think you can see why if you look at the power supply. It occupies almost half of the chassis. Here we are talking about power supplies for DIGITAL boards. Part of the function of the Gen VIII is as a preamp but it had the massive power supply before that. You can't have it both ways. Do power supplies matter for Blu-ray players and dacs? If so then show the power supply of the supposedly equal dacs? If Theta reduced the capabilites of the power supply, you can see that they could easily make a smaller dac. To reduce the size of the dac and keep the dac,you would need two separate boxes. I think many miss this obvious point when they question the size of the Gen VIII.

When I listen to the Gen VIII, I hear dynamics that are just not there with the other dacs that I have tried unless combined with a separate two channel preamp which itself has a massive power supply. My suggestion is that when you seek the advice of others, you ask the type of music they listen to most. Classical music and chamber music in particuliar is a lot different from Rock guitar riffs and dynamic drum solos. Most of the reviews are by those who listen to classical. I would suggest that their is no substitute for hands on evaluation. Otherwise it is, "And Kal says... And Kal says...," only to in the end add a homemade power supply to the Oppo and conclude that you disagree with what "Kal says.." I think Kal is a great reviewer. One of the better ones for sure. Reviews have their place.

Here is a pic of the Gen VIII power supply with a Seagate 2tb External drive placed next for reference.

If you look at the other side you can see how much smaller the dacs could be without the supply
Here's and old post I made with a pic of the Gen VIII's power supply. The supply consumes a lot of the internals. If Theta feels such a large supply is essential, it seems logical that it might be worthwhile seeing if David Reich can improve it further.

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post #12825 of 13104 Old 04-02-2019, 06:23 PM
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At some point, there has to be a claim of superior sonics of the Trinnov processor. Anything else isn't going to attract the interest of Theta owners.
How about equal sonics? Interested?
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post #12826 of 13104 Old 04-02-2019, 06:40 PM
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How about equal sonics? Interested?
No. If the two processors were equal for sonics, I wouldn't be interested. I'm fairly certain they aren't equal in specs with the Casablanca having the higher performing dac chip. Being that I'm primarily a two channel music listener with my Gen VIII S3, the Trinnov would have to be better than it to gain my interest.

I also wonder about the business model. I don't really know much about the Trinnov in that regard. Theta can make a profit from hardware upgrades so there has been been constant decades lasting support. I wonder how a company whose processor that is primarily software based makes a profit after the sale? Typically, if you don't really make a profit from hardware upgrade, you make a profit by selling newer, hopefully improved gear. With Trinnov not really needing many hardware upgrades, what happens in 5 or 10 years or at whatever point sales of new units are either saturated or slowed? Do they sell software upgrades? How would/does the company make a profit at that point? Is it like life time subscriptions? At some point, you can't make a profit with those.

Upgrades to Theta, are relatively cheap compared to buying a new Trinnov. So I can't think I'd ever be interested in equal sonics. That would not be enough.
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post #12827 of 13104 Old 04-02-2019, 07:02 PM
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@Bulldogger , probably not you but I'd bet other owners.
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post #12828 of 13104 Old 04-03-2019, 02:40 AM
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Steve

Have you compared the Trinnov RAAT vs using Sonore ?
Is there no difference?

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/t...tical-upgrade/

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post #12829 of 13104 Old 04-03-2019, 09:36 AM
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For me, even though I have a room that is horrible for acoustics (great room that has family room, dining, and kitchen in one open area), I have never been fond of what EQ does for the sonics in my room. I've had a few processors with Audyssey, a couple with Dirac Live, and one with RoomPerfect. If I had to choose a processor with EQ, it would be RoomPerfect for me since that sounded the best in my room. So, I look for the best sounding 7.1 processor without using EQ. For me, that is the CBIV. I'm sure Dirac Live helps for some folks and makes the CBIV even better for them, but for me, it just doesn't work in my room.


Regarding Trinnov, I've heard it's better than RoomPerfect. However, it's still EQ, so I'd want to hear it in my room to see if it would work for me. Because my 4 surrounds are in the ceiling (no rear wall on my family room), then Atmos, etc is kind of out for me, so 7.1 is the best I can do. In my case, I rely on the great engineering in the Theta DACs and power supply to give me the best sonics for my room.


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post #12830 of 13104 Old 04-03-2019, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post
Other things, on some of the newer dacs are of course a USB inputs. Recently, I found it however interesting in the review of Emm Labs 25k dac, that the balanced input was still the best sounding input. https://www.stereophile.com/content/...2-da-processor . HDMI inputs are also on some of the newer dac. I have no interest in those but other might.
I'm sure you are aware that the USB input is an asynchronous input vice the AES/EBU. So the differences in sonics are most likely due to implementation limitations. Another example of the old adage, the system is only as good as its weakest link.


Are you sure that the HDMI input is for HDMI signals? I've seen a few newer DACs that use a HDMI connector to support the I2S signal interface.
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post #12831 of 13104 Old 04-03-2019, 11:55 AM
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Regarding Trinnov, I've heard it's better than RoomPerfect.
Dave
I imagine there are very few people that have compared Dirac, Trinnov, and Roomperfect in the same room with the same equipment so it comes down to speculation and opinion. From what I understand, Roomperfect is quite good but it's a bit of a "black box" with no user control beyond setting "focus" and "global" settings. No target curves or bandwidth limiting.

I've played with the Lyngdorf in a showroom on Salon 2 speakers. I have owned an Anthem prepro with ARC, 2 prepros with Dirac, and a 4 channel Trinnov. All of those were used with the same front speakers in the same room. They are all good but getting the best from them requires a LOT of hands on work and adjustment. I have my own opinion on what I like best but I'd encourage anyone considering one of these choices to try and audition one first...

BTW, there are very few audio/media rooms that wouldn't benefit from some form of "room correction" but it's not always easy to get a good result from any room correction in a really challenging room so I'm not surprised you prefer to listen without room correction.

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post #12832 of 13104 Old 04-03-2019, 12:20 PM
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...but I'd encourage anyone considering one of these choices to try and audition one first...

I think that's much easier said than done


For example, I have not had the Trinnov Altitude in my room. Aside from purchasing it without knowing if it will work for me or not, how else would I proceed? I'm guessing there's not any dealer that would send me a demo to try out...


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post #12833 of 13104 Old 04-03-2019, 12:22 PM
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I agree it isn't easy but can sometimes happen...I contacted the Trinnov distributor in Canada back in 2012 or so and arranged for in-home audition of the 4 channel ST2 and ended up buying one based on that audition.


In your case, maybe visiting a fellow AVSer with the Trinnov to see what it can do although that won't necessarily tell what it would do for you in your room....

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post #12834 of 13104 Old 04-03-2019, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
I think that's much easier said than done


For example, I have not had the Trinnov Altitude in my room. Aside from purchasing it without knowing if it will work for me or not, how else would I proceed? I'm guessing there's not any dealer that would send me a demo to try out...


Dave
What does this mean? Of course it’ll work, and work well. It’s the heart of the greatest systems of the day. Moreover, very popular in this forum.

It’s the best (if that’s what you’re after)! Ask Steve B who finally ditched Theta.

I have the JBl version, owned the Altitude, heard Art’s and if it’s good enough for Rob Hahn’s room ‘that rules them qll’, it’s a no-brainer’. Go for it!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #12835 of 13104 Old 04-03-2019, 12:46 PM
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THe days of bringing home a processor and SSP are long over.. Trinnov is pretty niche and you won’t find a demo room unless through an AVS user. . Too many channels, more complicated set up, and as we all know, the room impacts the sound so much, that demong a system outside of your own room will do little to help understand how it will perform in your own space.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #12836 of 13104 Old 04-03-2019, 01:39 PM
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^^ This is what room correction systems are for....you can make every room sound the same as long as the room/speaker parameters are within the correction capability of the processor. If the dealer can get the unit to sound great in the demo, the unit could certainly be set up to sound like that at the customers' home.

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post #12837 of 13104 Old 04-03-2019, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post
I imagine there are very few people that have compared Dirac, Trinnov, and Roomperfect in the same room with the same equipment so it comes down to speculation and opinion. From what I understand, Roomperfect is quite good but it's a bit of a "black box" with no user control beyond setting "focus" and "global" settings. No target curves or bandwidth limiting.
In my limited experience, Trinnov is the most flexible. Especially if setup requires imperfect/creative speaker placements.

RoomPerfect, is designed for living spaces and spaces with minimal acoustic treatments. For optimum performace their guidelines for placement need to be followed. Satellites & subs preferred over full range towers. Subwoofers on front wall, preferably in corners. Their surround processors (Lyngdorf Audio MP-50 & McIntosh MX-160) support up to 4 bass management/corner subwoofers. These corner subs can share LFE duties or seperate sub(s) can be connected to separate LFE out. Rather than calibrate to a target curve Lyngdorf added a new voicing tool to the surround processors and 2.2 TDAI-3400. Up to 32 separate voicings can be stored and recalled. I prefer this method to the target curve edit & store with other REQ systems.

I consider Dirac the standard. They are actively improving (they don't claim that it is "perfect ") and pushing the ball forward. In an acoustically and placement optimized rooms I suspect and Dirac and Trinnov calibration will be indistinguishable.

I may have the opportunity to compare the three in a optimal system upcoming.
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post #12838 of 13104 Old 04-03-2019, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post
THe days of bringing home a processor and SSP are long over.. Trinnov is pretty niche and you won’t find a demo room unless through an AVS user. . Too many channels, more complicated set up, and as we all know, the room impacts the sound so much, that demong a system outside of your own room will do little to help understand how it will perform in your own space.
Hi Jeff! Good to see you here - it's been a while. Hope all is going well for you! Sounds like your system is doing well :-) I think I had seen that you have Seaton subs too. I agree with you about the room too - it does make a difference, no matter the amount of EQ.


Dave
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post #12839 of 13104 Old 04-03-2019, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
Hi Jeff! Good to see you here - it's been a while. Hope all is going well for you! Sounds like your system is doing well :-) I think I had seen that you have Seaton subs too. I agree with you about the room too - it does make a difference, no matter the amount of EQ.


Dave
Hey Dave. All good. I still can’t believe Steve B went Trinnov. Well, if you want more speakers, it’s the only game in town.

I sold my home, and theater almost 2 years ago. We built a new place smaller in size. Still have a dedicated room. Decided to go all JBL Synthesis - except 4 Wisdom subs and 4 Seaton F-18s.

The room is the #1 factor... Over equipment I’d argue. I had the opportunity to visit Rob Hahn and hear his magnificent JBL set up (M2s), JBL for bed and hieghts. Probably the best home theater in the world given all I’ve seen and read about. I was astounded by the experience. 25 Uber subs didn’t hurt either. But I’ve heard Synthesis set ups in many other places and homes... but none... And I mean none was like this. But the room was designed with every possible detail considered with walls that approached a foot thick, and HVAC system that was incredibly quiet. . Not to mention Keith Yates’s incredible acoustical analysis and treatment recommendations. An out of body experience. The holy grail. It was eye and ear opening for me. I’ve never heard a room so quiet or been so drawn into a movie.

I could go on and on. But be it Theta, Datasat, Trinnov. They all sound great. But the room is where the best of the best reside.

Good luck with your next upgrade.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #12840 of 13104 Old 04-03-2019, 08:21 PM
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Room correction can't turn poo into silk but will help decent gear in a decent room shine. It will help get the most out of an awesome room as well since even an awesome room has to obey the laws of physics. You can tell almost instantly the moment you walk into an awesome room that it is something special just by the "feel" of the room and with conversation.

Design by Rives...dollars by The Bogg

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