The official Theta Owners Thread - Page 443 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13261 of 13304 Old 03-15-2020, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereojeff View Post
Unlike earlier versions, the CBIVa lost some of it's crossover versatility compared to the CB III and earlier.
Hi Jeff, thanks for the reply. I had a CBII before the CBIV, and yes I remember all of those options. Super cool although I didn't have any tools at the time to get it right. Now I'm considering other software tools for analysis.

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Originally Posted by Stereojeff View Post
(As you may recall, THX expected sealed satellite speakers with an f3 of 80 Hz and, consequently, built-in 2nd order high pass filtering). As John and I had a strong preference for accurate (reciprocal 4th order) L-R crossovers, we added instructions to the Dirac target curve setup to add the missing two poles (12 dB per octave) missing from the built-in high pass network.
I'm assuming that's the information on the last two or three pages of the manual? Picking the crossover frequency (eg. 80Hz), then creating a -12dB drop at half that (40Hz) and then down another 12dB at 1/4 of the crossover frequency (20Hz). Is this what you are referring to?

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In my experience...at least two subwoofers should be used to increase bass uniformity in the listening area. We recommended that the multiple subs be run through a miniDSP 2x4 to sychronize timing and level before performing Dirac Live calibrations using the Casablanca's subwoofer output as though your were using a single subwoofer.
I have two subwoofers. Each subwoofer has four 15" drivers in them stacked floor to ceiling. Eight drivers total. Would the above still apply? Or could I still measure as Subwoofer 1 and Subwoofer 2 in the program? Because they are next to my main speakers, should they be chained together?

All speakers including subwoofers are sealed enclosures.

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We also concluded that allowing high-end tweeters to follow their natural roll-off resulted in more pleasing sound. For your system I would lower the high-end "curtain" above which no processing occurs to 8 kHz or thereabouts.
So the curtain on the right at the high frequencies should be pulled down to about 8kHz? Meaning that Dirac will work from 20Hz-8kHz and the remaining high frequencies are left as designed?

I tend to repeat things to understand. Thank you for your response!
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post #13262 of 13304 Old 03-15-2020, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Osadciw View Post
Hi Jeff, thanks for the reply. I had a CBII before the CBIV, and yes I remember all of those options. Super cool although I didn't have any tools at the time to get it right. Now I'm considering other software tools for analysis.



I'm assuming that's the information on the last two or three pages of the manual? Picking the crossover frequency (eg. 80Hz), then creating a -12dB drop at half that (40Hz) and then down another 12dB at 1/4 of the crossover frequency (20Hz). Is this what you are referring to?


That is correct.



I have two subwoofers. Each subwoofer has four 15" drivers in them stacked floor to ceiling. Eight drivers total. Would the above still apply? Or could I still measure as Subwoofer 1 and Subwoofer 2 in the program? Because they are next to my main speakers, should they be chained together?

All speakers including subwoofers are sealed enclosures.

If the subwoofers have the same output capability and are the same distance from the MLP, then you can simply run them via a "Y" output from the 'Blance

So the curtain on the right at the high frequencies should be pulled down to about 8kHz? Meaning that Dirac will work from 20Hz-8kHz and the remaining high frequencies are left as designed?

Correct. That's what we learned sounded best to us.

I tend to repeat things to understand. Thank you for your response!

Well understood. We all want to get it right.


Jeff
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post #13263 of 13304 Old 03-15-2020, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Osadciw View Post
No they aren't there; the "ticks" go away immediately. It's not a rattle, either. The ticks are high frequency ticks, like digital clipping - going over 0dB - as heard on all bad modern music recordings (pretty much everything released these days). It doesn't matter what volume level I set the CBIV to. I could have it set to 10 and I'll still hear them at a reduced volume with the source music.
With Dirac correction, is the issue the same whether using HDMI, coaxial, or even analog stereo outputs of the Oppo player? I am wondering if it could perhaps be a cable issue?

If it is the same whether HDMI, coaxial or even analog stereo, then: Weird. I suggest you send the before and after Dirac room correction graphs to John Baloff, Theta tech, tell him how this occurs with Oppo player only after Dirac correction, and see if he has any ideas!

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post #13264 of 13304 Old 03-15-2020, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
With Dirac correction, is the issue the same whether using HDMI, coaxial, or even analog stereo outputs of the Oppo player? I am wondering if it could perhaps be a cable issue?

If it is the same whether HDMI, coaxial or even analog stereo, then: Weird. I suggest you send the before and after Dirac room correction graphs to John Baloff, Theta tech, tell him how this occurs with Oppo player only after Dirac correction, and see if he has any ideas!
Steve - it happens with both HDMI and coax. I haven't tried the analogue. I also don't hear it with the Apple TV. It wouldn't make sense to me being a cable issue as it happens at the exact same time in the song each time. I may try the EQing one more time before the room treatments come in just to play with the new info received today from both you and Jeff. This is all far more interesting than I thought it would be. I believe you've also used REW? Does the Theta mic work with that for other analysis?
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post #13265 of 13304 Old 03-15-2020, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Osadciw View Post
Steve - it happens with both HDMI and coax. I haven't tried the analogue. I also don't hear it with the Apple TV. It wouldn't make sense to me being a cable issue as it happens at the exact same time in the song each time. I may try the EQing one more time before the room treatments come in just to play with the new info received today from both you and Jeff. This is all far more interesting than I thought it would be. I believe you've also used REW? Does the Theta mic work with that for other analysis?

Allow me to answer the question you posed to Steve. The Theta microphone is the UMIK-1 from MiniDSP. You can easily use it with REW. Just be sure to load the calibration file.


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post #13266 of 13304 Old 03-15-2020, 07:43 PM
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I haven't used REW - don't give me too much credit!

I still say try a pair of analog interconnects and lets "hear" if same issue - but do not use CB analog bypass, let CB convert to digital. Again, we're troubleshooting the issue to "see" if it is Oppo or CB or something else. More info gives better analysis of the issue.

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post #13267 of 13304 Old 03-17-2020, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Osadciw View Post
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Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post
A few years back I purchased a Casablanca 3 from the “million dollar” theater when that theater was being dismantled https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-t...-home-theater/.
If I'm not mistaken, some of my Gen.8s are from his system.

Looking at the pictures in the article, I just realized that none of his equipment is hooked up with cabling. Speakers and amps all have empty terminals including power. The pictures are staged. I wonder what the room looked like with the cables everywhere. It had to look really cluttered as there's already so much in there.
Found this.
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post #13268 of 13304 Old 03-17-2020, 07:29 AM
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Found this.
Bulldogger, that's exactly what I thought lol. It's as if the room isn't wearing make-up on the night out!
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post #13269 of 13304 Old 03-17-2020, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Other way round. Subwoofers get a low pass, mains get high pass.

Of course! I edited the original post to correct the reversal.



Thanks,
Jeff
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post #13270 of 13304 Old 03-18-2020, 09:17 AM
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Bulldogger, you mentioned using Dirac 300Hz below. A friend in the industry also told me to limit it to 300Hz. What merit is there for this approach as opposed to using 8kHz and below? EQ to omni-directional sound only vs. including direct sound?
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post #13271 of 13304 Old 03-18-2020, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Osadciw View Post
Bulldogger, you mentioned using Dirac 300Hz below. A friend in the industry also told me to limit it to 300Hz. What merit is there for this approach as opposed to using 8kHz and below? EQ to omni-directional sound only vs. including direct sound?
My personal experience was limiting Dirac, I did 500 Hz and below, was better sounding for me for 2 channel; whereas not limiting Dirac (or following the above instructions to limit to 8 kHz) was best for multi-channel. Stereojeff has mentioned this months ago in this thread, that Theta Digital's experimentation sonically revealed the importance of using Dirac more "full range" for multi-channel as you have more speakers that need to tonally balance - I'm sure Jeff can explain this better than me. I had discussed this with Theta Tech John Baloff and he explained this as well.

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post #13272 of 13304 Old 03-18-2020, 10:48 AM
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Ok, so would you use Filter A for multichannel (8kHz and below) and Filter B for stereo (500/300Hz and below)?

For multichannel, would you chain LF, RF, C, LS, RS together so they all have a similar tone? Since my speakers' sonic signature are all very similar to each other, would it make sense to chain them together for coherency all around? Or is it because the surround speakers are such in a different location (even the center speaker below the screen) that it's best to keep those independent?

I've got a lot of time now to play with this. I actually can't believe that I've mostly ignored it all of these years due to a lack of dedicating brain space to it.
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post #13273 of 13304 Old 03-18-2020, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Osadciw View Post
Ok, so would you use Filter A for multichannel (8kHz and below) and Filter B for stereo (500/300Hz and below)?

For multichannel, would you chain LF, RF, C, LS, RS together so they all have a similar tone? Since my speakers' sonic signature are all very similar to each other, would it make sense to chain them together for coherency all around? Or is it because the surround speakers are such in a different location (even the center speaker below the screen) that it's best to keep those independent?

I've got a lot of time now to play with this. I actually can't believe that I've mostly ignored it all of these years due to a lack of dedicating brain space to it.
I understand that the CBV has 6 Dirac filter "slots". But you have the CBIV, right, with only one "A" slotted filter "slot". Though there is a "B", Theta never got the "B" "slot" done for whatever reason. What I did was save multiple filters/slots onto my laptop and manually have to load/change filters.

For movies and tv, absolutely use all your speakers for one filter.

For music, use all of your speakers for a filter, but you can choose whether or not to play in stereo, DTS, etc for however many channels you want to utilize. Odds are stereo (my experience) will sound best (not so with my Trinnov SSP and Auro-3D which expands stereo wonderfully). I don't think it makes any difference if you listen in stereo only whether you do the filter for all speakers or only front left and right.

Only "chain" pairs of speakers together, e.g., front left and right, side surround left and right, top front left and right, etc.
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post #13274 of 13304 Old 03-18-2020, 06:14 PM
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Looking at my old graphs a few posts above, it's pretty flat beyond 1kHz. +/-3dB which is usually tolerance. The first larger spread happens around 700Hz and continues below. I've changed a few things in the room, a little on the seating position as well as the speakers just a bit. I'm curious to see how these changes show graphically pre-EQ. I may opt to try EQing 800Hz and below if that 700Hz spread is still there (and the dip for both channels at 600Hz).
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So has anyone (reading this forum) upgraded to a CBV yet?

Has anyone (reading this forum) bought a new CBV yet?

Anyone who has a CBV and previously had a CBIVA (reading this forum), how do you like it in terms of use and in terms of sonics compared to the CBIVA?

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post #13276 of 13304 Old 03-24-2020, 07:35 PM
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CBIII HD Reset of dacs?

I’m having trouble with my second card not receiving signal ... 2 subs and surrounds... last time this happen after thunderstorm I had to reset the dacs. As subs weren’t receiving signal properly... It was a code at startup ... I can’t remember how to get in...

I believe to rename dacs sub1 2 etc

Or is there a hard reset for just the cards and not lose all input info? It’s not recognizing the card... and this has happen before. I just can’t remember how to reset.

How do I reset/rename the dacs?

Thanks for help

Last edited by m3what; 03-24-2020 at 07:39 PM.
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post #13277 of 13304 Old 03-24-2020, 11:48 PM
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CBIII HD Reset of dacs?

I’m having trouble with my second card not receiving signal ... 2 subs and surrounds... last time this happen after thunderstorm I had to reset the dacs. As subs weren’t receiving signal properly... It was a code at startup ... I can’t remember how to get in...

I believe to rename dacs sub1 2 etc

Or is there a hard reset for just the cards and not lose all input info? It’s not recognizing the card... and this has happen before. I just can’t remember how to reset.

How do I reset/rename the dacs?

Thanks for help
Unfortunately its been a year since I sold my CBIVA SSP and moved to another company SSP. But there is a sheet which gives instructions, I just don't have it anymore. If my memory is any good, turn on CB from front; when front panel says "Theta Digital" I think you hit button #1 on front; then you enter the code "1-1-1-1"; and then you can hit buttons to reset DAC Cards re speakers. Try it and let me know if my memory is good. If not, call ATI-Theta Digital, talk to John Baloff Theta Tech, and he'll tell you what to do. Its easy.

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post #13278 of 13304 Old 03-25-2020, 11:44 AM
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Off topic: I'm moving house and the family room of the new one has a 5.1 system cabled. I will need to replace the integrated amp/receiver, however, as that's going with the seller. Any recommendations that aren't massively expensive? This would be for every day tv viewing / kids etc not for my dedicated system obviously. At some point I will upgrade the speakers to Kef THX in-wall or similar.

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post #13279 of 13304 Old 03-25-2020, 01:17 PM
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I'd get a receiver that supports Dirac Live. Not entirely sure what's available but I'd check NAD first. Looks like the T 758V3 is the most economical with refurbs available under $1k.


Jeff

Last edited by Stereojeff; 03-25-2020 at 09:36 PM.
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post #13280 of 13304 Old 03-25-2020, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by stevekale View Post
Off topic: I'm moving house and the family room of the new one has a 5.1 system cabled. I will need to replace the integrated amp/receiver, however, as that's going with the seller. Any recommendations that aren't massively expensive? This would be for every day tv viewing / kids etc not for my dedicated system obviously. At some point I will upgrade the speakers to Kef THX in-wall or similar.

Arcam has decent receivers - AVR390, AVR550, and the AVR850.


Dave
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post #13281 of 13304 Old 03-25-2020, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Osadciw View Post
Bulldogger, you mentioned using Dirac 300Hz below. A friend in the industry also told me to limit it to 300Hz. What merit is there for this approach as opposed to using 8kHz and below? EQ to omni-directional sound only vs. including direct sound?
My speakers are not identical. I run Mcintosh XR200 for front left and right, Mcintosh XCS200 for center and Mcintosh WS350 for surrounds. Because of this, I need "help" making the blend. I'm not sure you will need to run a full range correction with your set-up! Try it and see if you like correcting only below 300Hz. Dirac 2.0 is only stereo right now for PC. Waiting for the multi-channel version.

The more "serious" audiophile buddies of mine do not like the original Dirac correction above 300Hz. They say the sound is not “organic” and sounds “processed.” I think the Dirac 2, with it's improved sonics, will cross the threshold for some of them for sure. One of these guys is running a sub with some custom built ribbons. His Aesthix Metis preamp, https://www.stereophile.com/content/aesthetix-metis , just shipped. I see Dirac is offering a 14 day trial of the newest version, so when he breaks in the new preamp, I'll give it a second "go round," in this system. The new bass module is also listed on Diracs website. Theta should implement that as well, in the CBV.
https://live.dirac.com/features/

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So has anyone (reading this forum) upgraded to a CBV yet?

Has anyone (reading this forum) bought a new CBV yet?
I’m sure at least two guys have. VGI posted that Theta has an entirely new operating system in the CBV. I would like some feedback on that.

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post #13283 of 13304 Old 03-26-2020, 07:28 AM
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The new bass module is also listed on Diracs website. Theta should implement that as well, in the CBV.
https://live.dirac.com/features/
Agreed

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I've suddenly become less interested in Dirac and more interested about getting the room right. These EQ systems seem to be a band-aid approach to problems and can't address the bigger issue. And I don't like the sound of Dirac on my untreated room. It just doesn't feel right. Maybe it works better in a room with some treatment.

So I've been in self-isolation for two weeks now and I've done enough reading about room acoustics to be dangerous. My job has me working from home so I'm gonna come up with a room treatment plan, purchase products, install them and measure them at various locations and see what measures and sounds best. If I feel the need to try Dirac after that, I'll see how that sounds. I think getting the room right is first priority and my brain is fixated on it now. No turning back hahaha
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post #13285 of 13304 Old 03-27-2020, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Osadciw View Post
I've suddenly become less interested in Dirac and more interested about getting the room right. These EQ systems seem to be a band-aid approach to problems and can't address the bigger issue. And I don't like the sound of Dirac on my untreated room. It just doesn't feel right. Maybe it works better in a room with some treatment.

So I've been in self-isolation for two weeks now and I've done enough reading about room acoustics to be dangerous. My job has me working from home so I'm gonna come up with a room treatment plan, purchase products, install them and measure them at various locations and see what measures and sounds best. If I feel the need to try Dirac after that, I'll see how that sounds. I think getting the room right is first priority and my brain is fixated on it now. No turning back hahaha
Sounds like fun! Make sure to come back and share what you end up doing and how it affects the sonics.


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post #13286 of 13304 Old 03-27-2020, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Osadciw View Post
I've suddenly become less interested in Dirac and more interested about getting the room right. These EQ systems seem to be a band-aid approach to problems and can't address the bigger issue. And I don't like the sound of Dirac on my untreated room. It just doesn't feel right. Maybe it works better in a room with some treatment.

So I've been in self-isolation for two weeks now and I've done enough reading about room acoustics to be dangerous. My job has me working from home so I'm gonna come up with a room treatment plan, purchase products, install them and measure them at various locations and see what measures and sounds best. If I feel the need to try Dirac after that, I'll see how that sounds. I think getting the room right is first priority and my brain is fixated on it now. No turning back hahaha
Glad I was able to make a suggestion that will help you! For more inexpensive DIY acoustic treatments, try GIK or Vicoustics

Keep in mind you need large bass traps to deal with mid and low bass.

My theater upgrade/renovation, as my ceiling is 11.93' high, will include one very wide and deep bass trap extending along the top of the back wall above the 80" cabinetry/doors/rear subwoofers built-in/rear surround Aerial 7LCRs built-in.
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post #13287 of 13304 Old 03-27-2020, 09:32 AM
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Get as many Modes Plates as you can. The hinged metal sheet behind a perforated fascia absorbs base much more effectively than anything else. They used to only make them with aluminum fascias (and they weighed a ton) but I see they now offer fabric/mdf versions.
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post #13288 of 13304 Old 03-27-2020, 09:41 AM
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Here's a link to the ones that were designed and made in Europe:

http://www.rpgeurope.com/products/pr...odexplate.html

There were two versions, each with a different absorption profile. I have two of the thicker versions which provide greater absorption at low frequencies. (Compare the two plots in the little graphic.)

The ones available in the US seem to have a different construction and different absorption profile.

https://www.rpgacoustic.com/modex-plate/

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post #13289 of 13304 Old 03-27-2020, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Glad I was able to make a suggestion that will help you! For more inexpensive DIY acoustic treatments, try GIK or Vicoustics
Yes, Steve. You got the ball rolling for me when I contacted GIK. I have access to Vicoustics through one of my partnering dealers. But I'm also seeing that the types of treatments are quite different between the many companies that make them. So, I'm sorting through the good and the bad, and the most effective for my room. It's the bass that's really my biggest issue; it's causing me to raise my sub levels up much higher than what it should be and I still can't hear certain frequencies. I've got to put big traps in in the corners and up where the walls meet the ceiling. I'll see what I can do about the floor area up in the front and rear of the room. I've been reading the Master Handbook of Acoustics while I'm at it. Lots of time. My distributors are currently running at minimum capacity and I'd rather make some informed buys. I tend to get excited quickly and sometimes buy before fully thinking it through. This time I won't do that. Exciting and I'll post the results!

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post #13290 of 13304 Old 03-27-2020, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Osadciw View Post
Yes, Steve. You got the ball rolling for me when I contacted GIK. I have access to Vicoustics through one of my partnering dealers. But I'm also seeing that the types of treatments are quite different between the many companies that make them. So, I'm sorting through the good and the bad, and the most effective for my room. It's the bass that's really my biggest issue; it's causing me to raise my sub levels up much higher than what it should be and I still can't hear certain frequencies. I've got to put big traps in in the corners and up where the walls meet the ceiling. I'll see what I can do about the floor area up in the front and rear of the room. I've been reading the Master Handbook of Acoustics while I'm at it. Lots of time. My distributors are shut down and I'd rather make some informed buys. I tend to get excited quickly and sometimes buy before fully thinking it through. This time I won't do that. Exciting and I'll post the results!
Ah! Master Handbook of Acoustics! I bought that, with other stuff, back in 1996 when I was planning to build my dedicated home theater addition onto my existing home!
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