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post #13381 of 13388 Old 05-08-2020, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
In my now taken down being renovated home theater, my then CBIVA SSP and then Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP, with then 2 JL Audio f212 subwoofers, I never had an issue with movies vs music for bass and subwoofers - I had subs set to match main speakers levelwise.

Having listened to music and movies at your place Steve, I would completely agree - never an issue. Any ETA on your room?


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post #13382 of 13388 Old 05-08-2020, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
Having listened to music and movies at your place Steve, I would completely agree - never an issue. Any ETA on your room?


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YES I have been assured that it will all done BEFORE there is any effective reliable vaccine for Covid-19! And possibly BEFORE Michael gets his bass to sound much better especially on music!
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Last edited by Steve Bruzonsky; 05-14-2020 at 10:53 AM.
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post #13383 of 13388 Old 05-09-2020, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
I found over the more subs can guck up the sonics and make it so much less musical, as low and mid bass "interfere" with everything else. Its hard enough to best place 2 subs let alone 4 or 6. Unless you have a sound footing for placement. Per studies, if you have four subs, placement in the corners, mid-points of walls, or even along both quarter points of opposing walls work nicely
(as does Art Noxon's rectangular room formula for 2 subs).

I finally decided I would "clean up" my theater as renovated and upgraded, getting subwoofers out of the way, thus I didn't use corners (entry door would have been an issue), mid-points or quarter-points (latter to have clean walkways). Adjusting PEQ and EQ, etc is way beyond me - that's why I'll have Adam Pelz come out to set it all up once we finally get there!

I sold the Vandersteen subs, played around with placement of the 3 Aerial subs, and my music was so much better! Word to the wise more in not necessarily better unless you "do the math" (or someone does it for you, in my case, I 'm getting my new subs from Mark Seaton and he worked with my installer Gerry Behm regarding the math and placement of subs).
I have my 4 subs at the side quarter points (just slightly off in the rear pair but pretty close). The previous version of REW I used for measuring my bass response at all 7 seats was wrong - not sure where the error was, but it measured nearly identically at all 7 seats. I was always suspicious but accepted it with thanks to the bass gods but when I used the latest version of REW it shows good response but not quite as consistent at all 7 seats.

PEQ and EQ tinkering is mandatory and if you don't want to do it yourself I'm sure Adam will be happy enough to do it for you.

The math etc for placement is key imho. As you noted, a bunch of randomly, or suboptimally, placed subs won't necessarily blend well or satisfy...

I'm still tweaking/fiddling and it's awesome when those "eureka" moments come...
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post #13384 of 13388 Old 05-14-2020, 03:49 AM
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I'm of the camp where I have the bass for movies a bit hotter than the bass for music. I have had it that way for as long as I have played music and movies in the same room. I'm sure it is a "preference thing". That said, the bass in movies (Disney crushed bass notwithstanding) tends to be a bit more consistent. Bass in music is all over the place. One of the nice things about my current processor is that I have (for example) a "Preset", for example, 70's rock as it almost all has anemic bass. Also, the bass in most of my Concert BluRays needs to be played using my music Preset vs the movie preset.

Also, when I time align the (multiple) subs with the mains for movies, I do so with the center channel but for music, I do so with the L&R speakers. In my current room, there is about a 3.5 ms difference between the two.

Lastly, my normal approach for adjusting the sub delays is to run a continuous frequency sweep with bass management enabled and using REW or OmniMic adjust the sub delays (and crossover type and crossover slope) until I get what appears to be the smoothest response. But I now double check using a method I used maybe 20 years ago. I play a frequency specific tone that is set to whatever my selected crossover frequency is and again using OmniMic or REW, adjust the sub delays until I get the highest SPL level at that crossover point. If I get a difference between this method and the frequency sweep method, I usually use this answer this method provides. Prior to having tools like REW or OmniMic where the only tool I had was a RS SPL Meter, I would reverse the phase of the main speaker and then do the same test and look for the lowest SPL level.

Anyway, just my $0.02.

Last edited by audioguy; 05-14-2020 at 04:03 AM.
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post #13385 of 13388 Old 05-18-2020, 03:19 PM
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OFF TOPIC but I value the advice of those who post here as many have built dedicated rooms. Reply by PM if more appropriate.

In my new house I have a 5.1 system in the "Family Room" which is open plan through to the casual dining/kitchen etc. The rear speakers are in the ceiling and acoustics are unlikely to be anywhere near optimal. The previous owner has some ghastly front LRC speakers attached to the wall surrounding the TV. I want to switch to some Kef in-wall but will need to build out a portion of the wall 5-6 inches in order to do so as it is an exterior wall with little gap to the concrete block. My question is how best to structure the extension. It has been suggested to use 4x2 and cover the full face with plywood before applying wall board. (The advantage being it's easy to cut out and affix speakers and TV.) Somehow that doesn't feel right to me as I would have thought wall board backed with Rocwool in behind it over a stud-like frame would have better absorption properties. Something like this or go with the simple plywood approach?

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post #13386 of 13388 Old 05-18-2020, 08:20 PM
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Unless you add absorber panels to the front of the wall, the only absorption that plain drywall will offer will be very low freq. I expect that drywall backed by plywood would be an improvement over drywall alone.

The suggestion of 4x2s with plywood and drywall is a good one. Add rockwool between the 4x2s for a slight improvement in absorption and added thermal insulation.

Cheers,
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post #13387 of 13388 Old 05-20-2020, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ul...l#post54575028

Because of the above ("room correction" should only be below the Shroeder frequency, which is around 200-400 Hz in most residential rooms), I only apply Dirac below Shroeder frequency - 400 Hz, and below are graphs of results:
One comment on this. Of course there are different flavors for different tastes, but just because the room dominates in one portion of the frequency range and the speaker tends to in another doesn't necessarily mean that one shouldn't use Dirac (or any other frequency response compensation) to correct the region dominated by the speaker's response. That can still be improved. How far up the curve you go is up to you and what you think you hear.

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post #13388 of 13388 Old 05-20-2020, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekale View Post
One comment on this. Of course there are different flavors for different tastes, but just because the room dominates in one portion of the frequency range and the speaker tends to in another doesn't necessarily mean that one shouldn't use Dirac (or any other frequency response compensation) to correct the region dominated by the speaker's response. That can still be improved. How far up the curve you go is up to you and what you think you hear.
IMHO, it's actually not that there is a frequency range that room "dominates" more and another that speaker "dominates" more.

To me, the room "dominates" throughout frequency range, period. (Better word probably is "affects.") It's the TYPE of "domination" that leads to above observation. Below Shroeder frequency, room affects sound because of room modes, above, room affects sound because of room reflection (power response versus anechoic response).

We should correct for room modes, not for room reflection, is the argument. But as you wrote and I partially agree, "how far is up to you." Having said that, either you do or you don't, either you correct for midrange and treble reflection, or you don't. The Shroeder frequency is the only point where you make a decision whether to correct above it. It wouldn't make sense to randomly, for example, picks 2000 Hz as the cut-off. IMHO.

Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
Casablanca IVa Dirac Set Up Help HERE And some interesting audio diagrams.
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).

Last edited by cannga; 05-21-2020 at 12:18 AM.
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