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post #4651 of 9374 Old 07-17-2018, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonFo View Post
^^^ Same conclusions I came to 10+ years ago. And no regrets from deploying the mini-split, it is still going strong. And since we're both in GA, no need to tell you how hot it's been lately, yet that equipment room never goes above 74 (set-point is 72). I have an automation system (HomeSeer) and a multi-sensor in the equipment room, so I get texts if the temps go over 76.

As for costs, I believe my mini-split paid for itself in the first 5 years of use. The reduction in electricity from the main 5-ton multi-zone unit running less was significant. I also believe it has further paid for itself in equipment longevity, as heat will wear out gear sooner.

Same for PCs, and since the Trinnov is basically a PC, keeping it cool would be preferable.
I finally got someone out here to give me an estimate. A LOT has apparently changed since I got the first quote many years ago, not the least of which is that a number of other companies have gotten into the hardware end of this market segment AND, they have come up with less expensive options. I expect the first quote soon and he estimated it would be about 50% to 60% of my last quote !!! This makes it a no-brainer. When I watch a movie on a day like today (90+ degrees outside), my current "setup" is totally inadequate. And the Trinnov is no small contributor to the heat in my equipment room. Excited.

Sorry for the very OT posts !!

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming !!
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post #4652 of 9374 Old 07-17-2018, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by appelz View Post
Speaker level matching is part of the calibration process. You can even define calculations for A-weighted or C-weighted measurements, limit amount of gain/boost, and some other parameters best left alone.
What is the default?
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post #4653 of 9374 Old 07-17-2018, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mikela View Post
What is the default?
Default is C-Weighting. I will set to A-weighting in some systems. Normally I'm traveling with 120+ lbs of test/measurement gear though, so I always check manually and season to taste, especially if I am getting aggressive with different target curves per speaker. Most of my systems have QSC DSP in the chain as well, so I can get really fine control, and will make final adjustments there.
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post #4654 of 9374 Old 07-17-2018, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I finally got someone out here to give me an estimate. A LOT has apparently changed since I got the first quote many years ago, not the least of which is that a number of other companies have gotten into the hardware end of this market segment AND, they have come up with less expensive options. I expect the first quote soon and he estimated it would be about 50% to 60% of my last quote !!! This makes it a no-brainer. When I watch a movie on a day like today (90+ degrees outside), my current "setup" is totally inadequate. And the Trinnov is no small contributor to the heat in my equipment room. Excited.

Sorry for the very OT posts !!

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming !!
Try to get a brand/model that offers a control interface so you can use a standard thermostat. I have a Mr Slim controlled by an Ecobee4. Very useful to have external temperature sensors(to average and "smooth" the temperature swings throughout the area) and automation.

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post #4655 of 9374 Old 07-17-2018, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by appelz View Post
Default is C-Weighting...

Thanks Adam for your reply on preamp levels. I was really hoping that was the case. Based on a test I did yesterday just with a CD & stereo playback, when I get around to calibration, my Maggies will need a preamp boost just like they have with 3 Pioneer AVR's and the Marantz prepro. I've got a unique thing I'm doing with my setup which is another story but I need to go balanced to unbalanced for amps, plus 1 of my amps only has RCA inputs. I know using unbalanced also costs 6dB. So the Altitude will definitely need to boost the preamp levels. Hopefully, headroom won't be an issue.

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post #4656 of 9374 Old 07-19-2018, 02:25 PM
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For those interested in higher speaker count videos, I recommend Hans Zimmer - Live In Prague. Zimmer wrote musical scores for lots of movies (The Lion King, DaVinci Code, Crimson Tide, Gladiators, Pirates Of The Caribbean, etc). This features a large "choir", orchestra/band and him playing his music.

For many of the cuts, you will need to cut your LFE way back as the bass is boomy and overdone. There is lots of use of wides and center heights and I suspect more. Anyway, nicely done concert video!
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post #4657 of 9374 Old 07-19-2018, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
Try to get a brand/model that offers a control interface so you can use a standard thermostat. I have a Mr Slim controlled by an Ecobee4. Very useful to have external temperature sensors(to average and "smooth" the temperature swings throughout the area) and automation.
Thanks. I went with a Mitsubishi 3/4 ton unit for ~90 square feet. The thermostat will be placed next to the equipment rack. And the price turned out to be > 25% less than it was a few years ago. I thought the price would be a bit lower but you gotta do what you gotta do.
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post #4658 of 9374 Old 07-19-2018, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
For those interested in higher speaker count videos, I recommend Hans Zimmer - Live In Prague. Zimmer wrote musical scores for lots of movies (The Lion King, DaVinci Code, Crimson Tide, Gladiators, Pirates Of The Caribbean, etc). This features a large "choir", orchestra/band and him playing his music.

For many of the cuts, you will need to cut your LFE way back as the bass is boomy and overdone. There is lots of use of wides and center heights and I suspect more. Anyway, nicely done concert video!

Agreed, you don't want to have a +9db target curve < 60 Hz with some of this music!


The Hans Zimmer BD makes nice use of wides and heights in my Atmos layout (I think it pulls in the top middles a fair amount, but I haven't listened to it in a few months). But if you really want a sense of what Atmos can for you in a 9.1.6 format by almost constant use of all speakers, check out either the R.E.M Automatic for the People BD we've both raved about, or the insanely detailed Luca Turilli's Prometheus, if you can handle Italian operatic metal.

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post #4659 of 9374 Old 07-19-2018, 04:37 PM
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My installer is coming tomorrow to calibrate my new Altitude 16. He was hoping to load the advanced speaker array ahead of time to save a bit of time, but has been unable to VNC into the Trinnov. We think it may be due to the fact that I have an Eero network (2nd generation). We are going to do further testing while he's here to see if that is indeed the problem. Does anyone else have Eero 2nd gen and if so, have you had similar problems? Thoughts on how to get it to work?

I'm willing to buy another brand of router and dedicate it to the Trinnov to solve this problem (keep the Eero for the rest of my home, of course), since I really want to make sure he can VNC in when he needs to. Can anyone recommend a router that works well with the Altitude 16? I wouldn't really need or use wireless on it; I just plan to connect it to my network switch, and then connect the Altitude to it.

Thanks!

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post #4660 of 9374 Old 07-19-2018, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Agreed, you don't want to have a +9db target curve < 60 Hz with some of this music!


The Hans Zimmer BD makes nice use of wides and heights in my Atmos layout (I think it pulls in the top middles a fair amount, but I haven't listened to it in a few months). But if you really want a sense of what Atmos can for you in a 9.1.6 format by almost constant use of all speakers, check out either the R.E.M Automatic for the People BD we've both raved about, or the insanely detailed Luca Turilli's Prometheus, if you can handle Italian operatic metal.
REM is awesome (bought that at the recommendation of Adam) and I think I will pass on Prometheus
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post #4661 of 9374 Old 07-20-2018, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott-C View Post
I'm willing to buy another brand of router and dedicate it to the Trinnov to solve this problem (keep the Eero for the rest of my home, of course), since I really want to make sure he can VNC in when he needs to. Can anyone recommend a router that works well with the Altitude 16? I wouldn't really need or use wireless on it; I just plan to connect it to my network switch, and then connect the Altitude to it.

Thanks!
Using an older Netgear router (802 a/b/n) & 2 of their prosumer managed switches. For some reason (cable perhaps?) the router didn't assign an IP address. Changed cable, rebooted the Alt & things worked like a charm. I do not use wifi for any AV gear, all wired gigabit with cat5e/6. I just don't trust wifi to be reliable enough if that's what you are trying to do I don't know anything about Eero gear but Netgear works for me. Before you give up on yours, try it again since I've noticed it took 2 boots for the Altitude to 1) obtain its IP address & 2) connect to Trinnov server. I think there may be a lag time involved. Once it connected it's rock stable and nothing changes. I also have reserved the IP address in the router so it gets assigned the same one every time. This will also help with the vnc client since you won't have to re-enter a different IP address each time.

I also ended up ignoring Trinnov's suggested TightVNC software due to the fact that I saw no way to just download the client side, you have to download the server side as well as a single package and I definitely do not want the remotest possibility of some nefarious person trying to access my PC! In the case of the Altitude, it is acts as the server and your PC/mac/tablet/phone is the client (what you are using to control from). You may know this but make sure you aren't using a vnc server since the Trinnov is the server. I had to figure this out myself since never used VNC before.

I followed sdrucker's advice and went with the free RealVNC viewer. Easy to use, works like a champ & they don't force the server side on you.

https://www.realvnc.com/en/connect/download/viewer/

Steve

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post #4662 of 9374 Old 07-20-2018, 06:35 AM
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If you happen to use a Mac laptop, you don't need to download any VNC app. In the Safari browser, just type: "vnc://followed by the IP address" and you are good to go.

And if you have an Apple iPad (which I keep in my theater all of the time), I use Mocha VNC. The other iPad VNC apps I used had a clumsy way to do the "clicking". Mocha VNC does not.
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post #4663 of 9374 Old 07-20-2018, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
And if you have an Apple iPad (which I keep in my theater all of the time)

One of the next things on my list, Chuck. Thanks for the suggestion.

I do have a MS Surface Pro which the company provided to me several yrs before I retired but I absolutely hate its ergonomics - the keyboard & touchpad just don't work for me & only 1 usb port I would never buy one on my own but many like them I guess. The only way I'm happy using it is with ext keyboard, mouse and monitor thru a usb dock. I thought about re-activating its touchscreen but I would end up getting frustrated with it vs. using an ipad.

For setting up the Trinnov from my desk, my 15" win laptop will be great since it's connected to a 27" Asus monitor calibrated for photo editing but for general use in the AV room, I think an ipad will be perfect. Different tools for different tasks...

Steve

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post #4664 of 9374 Old 07-20-2018, 02:29 PM
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I see that there is now an Altitude 32 V2 listed on Trinnov's site.

I think the difference from V1 to V2 is the Wizard Speaker Optimization software that first premiered on the Altitude 16, is this correct?

And, for those of you that have V1, has the latest firmware update added this feature to your Altitude 32? Thanks.

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post #4665 of 9374 Old 07-20-2018, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 7ryder View Post
I see that there is now an Altitude 32 V2 listed on Trinnov's site.

I think the difference from V1 to V2 is the Wizard Speaker Optimization software that first premiered on the Altitude 16, is this correct?

And, for those of you that have V1, has the latest firmware update added this feature to your Altitude 32? Thanks.

I noticed that page a few weeks ago, I think they have some very lazy web designers since I doubt that page should even be published yet since there is no link to it from the website.
http://trinnov.com/Altitude%2032_V2


Not sure how Trinnov labels their hardware but there has been two versions of the 32 hardware for a while.


V.1 of the Altitude hardware has the AML socket and older motherboard without hdmi.

V.2 Altitude 32's have the Dual RJ45 sockets with updated motherboards. - These have been out for some time.



Back to that web page


In addition to the screenshot of the Calibration Wizard there is also a screenshot that shows the Altitude having the ability to choose between hdmi 1.4 and hdmi 2.0 inputs which will be a useful addition and no doubt make its way to the 16 also.

That screen also shows that they have added an HDR flag to the Video Out Section.











Totally missed this before, could be the first proof of a 48 channel Altitude 32


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post #4666 of 9374 Old 07-20-2018, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I finally got someone out here to give me an estimate. A LOT has apparently changed since I got the first quote many years ago, not the least of which is that a number of other companies have gotten into the hardware end of this market segment AND, they have come up with less expensive options. I expect the first quote soon and he estimated it would be about 50% to 60% of my last quote !!! This makes it a no-brainer. When I watch a movie on a day like today (90+ degrees outside), my current "setup" is totally inadequate. And the Trinnov is no small contributor to the heat in my equipment room. Excited.

Sorry for the very OT posts !!

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming !!
Sorry to extend the OT but just wondering if you also need more a/c in your theatre? Years ago when I built "the dungeon" I didn't put a dedicated a/c in it. Big mistake based on all the insulation, equipment, and warm bodies. Fast forward to last year when we did the whole house reno the option of fishing down some wires came up and I put a LG mini-split in the theatre. The inside part looks like a picture - you can put whatever picture you want on the front panel so at least it doesn't look like an a/c. The outside part can handle 1-4 different zones (mine is a dual zone) with each zone having it's own individual a/c control. Naturally those multizone units cost a little bit more but it's incremental. If you are in need of better a/c in your theatre then it would be the time to get a multizone unit. I had to get the multizone external unit because the single zone one wasn't available in Canada yet, lol, so I paid a little more than I needed to but perhaps in the future I may make use of it.

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post #4667 of 9374 Old 07-20-2018, 09:13 PM
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Sorry to extend the OT but just wondering if you also need more a/c in your theatre? Years ago when I built "the dungeon" I didn't put a dedicated a/c in it. Big mistake based on all the insulation, equipment, and warm bodies. Fast forward to last year when we did the whole house reno the option of fishing down some wires came up and I put a LG mini-split in the theatre. The inside part looks like a picture - you can put whatever picture you want on the front panel so at least it doesn't look like an a/c. The outside part can handle 1-4 different zones (mine is a dual zone) with each zone having it's own individual a/c control. Naturally those multizone units cost a little bit more but it's incremental. If you are in need of better a/c in your theatre then it would be the time to get a multizone unit. I had to get the multizone external unit because the single zone one wasn't available in Canada yet, lol, so I paid a little more than I needed to but perhaps in the future I may make use of it.
Actually, my plan was to try to use a miniSplit for the entire upstairs. But it won't be practical. These homes were built with one HVAC system serving 2 floors (don't ask) with each floor having it's own thermometer. But in order to use the miniSplit upstairs, I would need to block all of the returns in the upstairs to the existing system which would then make the existing unit not work as it needs the return air from all of the returns. So I would then need to downsize the main unit for just the main floor and reconfigure all of the ductwork. That adds about another $6K+ to the project plus about $6K for the miniSplit. So it is ~$12K for a whole house re-do vs $2500 for doing just the equipment room !!
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post #4668 of 9374 Old 07-20-2018, 10:26 PM
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My house only has one a/c unit for the whole house. It was the only thing I wasn't able to get changed on my wish list. In your case - if you put the minisplit upstairs in your bedroom for example you wouldn't need to do anything about the rest of the main a/c. The second zone could go in your equipment room. I think that would add about 6-800 dollars to your cost but you would have 2 zones of air conditioning.

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post #4669 of 9374 Old 07-21-2018, 02:21 AM
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Question Speaker Array Setting for 9.1.6

Hello All,

for a 9.1.6 setup how do you array the speakers for audio formats that don't use them all?

For example do array the front wides with the side surrounds ? what the best practice that you have adopted to make the most out of your speakers?

thanks a lot for the clarification,

Ben
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post #4670 of 9374 Old 07-21-2018, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by mandragora View Post
Hello All,

for a 9.1.6 setup how do you array the speakers for audio formats that don't use them all?

For example do array the front wides with the side surrounds ? what the best practice that you have adopted to make the most out of your speakers?

thanks a lot for the clarification,

Ben

excellent question...in another month, I'll be at this point too. I'm still working on the physical infrastructure side of setting it up. But I saw reference to arrays in the manual and wondered about what they are about. I'm also looking at some form of custom speaker layout.

Steve
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post #4671 of 9374 Old 07-21-2018, 08:25 AM
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Speaking of infrastructure, I've spent several days working with URC software & my older touchscreen URC remote, the MX-6000, to see if I could implement IP or RS232 control. Frustrating, but direct IP control is no-go but RS-232 commands over IP I half-way got to work; some commands work but others don't. Mute works but volume doesn't for example. Could be mistakes in URC's database or too much lag time over remote & wifi, switches, router, the base station and serial connection. Unfortunately, I've never used serial control for AV gear before. I did download Trinnov's protocol document & will do some reading.

However, this AM I successfully implemented wake-on-lan to remotely turn on the Altitude with the iphone & eventually an ipad. I'll take this as a win in this journey! I used the free Mocha WOL app.

Steve

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post #4672 of 9374 Old 07-21-2018, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post
My house only has one a/c unit for the whole house. It was the only thing I wasn't able to get changed on my wish list. In your case - if you put the minisplit upstairs in your bedroom for example you wouldn't need to do anything about the rest of the main a/c. The second zone could go in your equipment room. I think that would add about 6-800 dollars to your cost but you would have 2 zones of air conditioning.
The current main floor AC is designed such that it requires the use of ALL returns (both upstairs an downstairs) even if only one of the floors is calling for heat or air. If I leave them as is and I am running the main unit for downstairs and the mini for upstairs, the downstairs would be pulling air from the upstairs existing return vents. That won't work. If I replace the downstairs unit with one that would only use the downstairs returns (and redo the duct work) I could then do the entire top floor with the mini split and will investigate that on Monday!!
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post #4673 of 9374 Old 07-21-2018, 06:50 PM
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@ss9001 What model number AC Infinity Fans are you using?


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post #4674 of 9374 Old 07-21-2018, 07:00 PM
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REM is awesome (bought that at the recommendation of Adam) and I think I will pass on Prometheus
Where did you find the REM blu-ray? Everything seems to be on CD after searching google and Amazon.
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7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5/P5 in-wall
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post #4675 of 9374 Old 07-21-2018, 07:06 PM
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Where did you find the REM blu-ray? Everything seems to be on CD after searching google and Amazon.

On Amazon

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post #4676 of 9374 Old 07-21-2018, 07:59 PM
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On Amazon

Thanks! Just purchased.

7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5/P5 in-wall
Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420
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post #4677 of 9374 Old 07-22-2018, 06:12 AM
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@ss9001 What model number AC Infinity Fans are you using?

The Aircom T8 with rear exhaust. They also have top & front exhaust units and ones without the programmable thermostats. I ordered from Amazon but they also sell direct.


There's room/closet, register, duct & cabinet models too.

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post #4678 of 9374 Old 07-22-2018, 06:14 AM
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Thanks! Just purchased.
Has been in my cart for > month but haven't purchased yet. I heard one of the Atmos tracks at audioguy's house & it was very impressive. What's held me back is I already have the REM 5.1 DVD-A greatest hits so would be looking at this just for Atmos. But I'll definitely be getting it soon - I think it will sound fabulous thru the Altitude

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post #4679 of 9374 Old 07-22-2018, 12:42 PM
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My house only has one a/c unit for the whole house. It was the only thing I wasn't able to get changed on my wish list. In your case - if you put the minisplit upstairs in your bedroom for example you wouldn't need to do anything about the rest of the main a/c. The second zone could go in your equipment room. I think that would add about 6-800 dollars to your cost but you would have 2 zones of air conditioning.
The current main floor AC is designed such that it requires the use of ALL returns (both upstairs an downstairs) even if only one of the floors is calling for heat or air. If I leave them as is and I am running the main unit for downstairs and the mini for upstairs, the downstairs would be pulling air from the upstairs existing return vents. That won't work. If I replace the downstairs unit with one that would only use the downstairs returns (and redo the duct work) I could then do the entire top floor with the mini split and will investigate that on Monday!!
The mini and your existing are completely independent. If u have the mini on in your bedroom for example then likely you won't have the main ac on to cool the main floor since you are upstairs. But even if the main floor thermostat called for cooling it wouldn't be an issue with using the returns because the minisplit has nothing to do with the returns.
I was just originally thinking you could add your theater as a zone and your equipment room as a second zone for an incremental cost increase over just the cooling system cost for the equipment room.

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post #4680 of 9374 Old 07-22-2018, 01:25 PM
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The mini and your existing are completely independent. If u have the mini on in your bedroom for example then likely you won't have the main ac on to cool the main floor since you are upstairs. But even if the main floor thermostat called for cooling it wouldn't be an issue with using the returns because the minisplit has nothing to do with the returns.
I was just originally thinking you could add your theater as a zone and your equipment room as a second zone for an incremental cost increase over just the cooling system cost for the equipment room.
My new house, has an AC/furnace for each floor.

Basement (where theater is), I did a zoned system: 1 zone theater and 2nd zone rest of basement. I will never need to run AC in rest of basement.Mini-Split is pre-wired for my small equipment room. I may be able to cool the theater with the furnace fan always on (which will draw the cool air from the rest of the basement).. However, in the winter, the theater AC system will work to temperatures no colder than 20 degrees. We might have a couple weeks a year that gets colder than that. The cost to go to a unit to run at 0 degrees was far more costly.

You take this HVAC stuff for granted until you do a theater

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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