Trinnov Altitude - Page 161 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4801 of 7572 Old 08-11-2018, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Question for you guys with a K-Scape setup: if you download the UHD/Atmos release of Avenger: Infinity Wars before the disc release on August 14th, can you do an Input meter check if you have a 9.1.6 or better Atmos setup and see if it’s another one of those neutered fixed-to-7.1.4 Atmos mixes?

Apparently the K-Scape crowd has first dibs on the UHD download over disc buyers....and there’s some speculation on the AVS Atmos thread and a FB group that for once, the dynamic range hasn’t been Disneyfied, so just curious if that carries over to the Atmos content.
Not a K-Scape owner but I received my disc copy early.

This movie has a phenomenal soundtrack, I heard no evidence of any dynamic range compression. The soundtrack is a minimum 7.1.6 with very active use of all 6 height speakers throughout. Wides were deadly silent. The LFE track is one of the best I have heard and it wasn't used just for explosions they used it judiciously to portray emotion in some of the darker scenes of the movie.

I would give video and audio a 10/10 on this one. Some V. good demo material.
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post #4802 of 7572 Old 08-11-2018, 09:39 AM
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Thanks Ken, top man! They don’t make those easy to find - I would have expected to see them as an additional button for each channel on the Outputs tab in the Processor section.
LOL, I expected them to be in in the Processor or Setup tabs, too, and even though I did use peq in my multi-way setup, I couldn't remember where they were to save my derriere. I had to pull up the manual to find the answer.
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post #4803 of 7572 Old 08-11-2018, 01:50 PM
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For those of you using ipads for VNC, which size do you prefer? I'm checking the 10.5 & 12.9" but not sure if the 12.9 is that much more useful for accessing the Altitude's inner features, like curve edits.

Steve

Last edited by ss9001; 08-11-2018 at 03:11 PM.
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post #4804 of 7572 Old 08-12-2018, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
For those of you using ipads for VNC, which size do you prefer? I'm checking the 10.5 & 12.9" but not sure if the 12.9 is that much more useful for accessing the Altitude's inner features, like curve edits.
Hey Steve,

I s'pose bigger is better, but I do everything on a simple iPad - 9 1/2 " I think - with no problems. For curve editing, I find it easiest to use the cursor function in Real VNC by highlighting a single point in the curve, then adjusting gain with the +/- controls accessed by touching the mouse button at the top (+/- 0.1dB or +/- 0.5dB). Move to other frequency points by using the left/right buttons, ditto.

Sure, you can use a touch pad to draw the curve, but IME you end up with a really rough curve that needs lots of adjustment using the technique I described above.
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post #4805 of 7572 Old 08-12-2018, 08:10 AM
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Another alternative is to use TightVNC on a pc with a larger monitor for curve editing.
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post #4806 of 7572 Old 08-12-2018, 08:21 AM
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Thanks, guys for the tips.

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post #4807 of 7572 Old 08-12-2018, 08:56 AM
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For curve editing, I much prefer a computer. For everything else, the iPad is more than adequate
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post #4808 of 7572 Old 08-12-2018, 10:23 AM
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i've read the last 20 or so pages of this thread, and have an interest in the Trinnov, likely the 16, but maybe the 32. i've tried to figure out the exact differences, but the web page is maddening to navigate. probably i don't need more than the 16. i guess i need some advice and clarity.

i've recently re-booted my Home Theater efforts with the JVC RS4500 + Lumagen Pro + DCR lens, and added an Anthem AVM60 + -4- Revel Atmos ceiling speakers to my pre-existing 7.1 Revel system. and been listening to that for a month or so. sound quality is important to me, as i've been a serious 2 channel guy for many years with a separate dedicated 2 channel room. i have the itch to try and get the sonic results my projector efforts are yielding. i don't dislike what the Anthem is doing but want it all if i can make sense of this.

i'm trying to sort out what might be possible in switching from my current 7.1.4 set-up, to potentially 9.1.6. or 9.3.6. my room is 18.5' L x 14' W x 9' H with a diagonal bump out to double doors beyond the 14' width on one side. as my room is not large i'm thinking 9.?.6 is all i'll need. i can't imagine more speakers. i only have one row of 3 Cinematech Valentino chairs 10' from the screen (i might add 2 more behind).

here are my questions.

1. right now i have 2 older Velodyne subs up front. i'm thinking of moving both of those 2 to the rear and adding 2 new subs up front. does that make sense?
2. right now my 'single' side speakers are older Revel S30's. as i have inside double doors on one side and a window and outside double doors on the other side, my plan would be to move the S30 on the outside wall to the other side toward the rear (more space there on the diagonal wall), and buy two new smaller Revel S16 that could go side by side on the short outside wall between the window and double outside doors. the 'remapping' feature of the Trinnov is very attractive to allow this asymmetrical side speaker set-up to work properly.
3. right now the rear speakers of my 7.1 set-up are Paradigm bookshelf speakers hanging near the ceiling. i'm thinking those can become the last 2 ceiling speakers (for 6 total), and i can add a pair of floor standing Revel M105 monitors below them (again the remapping feature 'optimizing' this).

as it turns out i already have all these speaker locations wired except one. so it's tempting.

am i expecting too much from the remapping/optimizer?

what degree of performance lift can i expect over the Anthem 7.1.4?

will the Trinnov 16 do all this for me. if i want control of 3 sub locations will the 16 do that? what plus's and minus's am i dealing with trying to use 4 subs? do i need this additional $3k mic kit to make this all work?

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post #4809 of 7572 Old 08-12-2018, 10:31 AM
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The Trinnov offers several options to configure the subs (only limited to the amount of physical channels you have). It's recommended by Trinnov that you tie your subs as one subwoofer in order to measure and correct the summed response. You do however have the option of assigning certain subs to handle mains only, surrounds only, etc.

As for your height and surround channels, sounds pretty straight forward and shouldn't be an issue. 3D Optimizer will correct and physical placement limitations for height and surrounds.

I replaced the Anthem AVM60 in my demo room with the Trinnov AL16 and there is no comparison. I till be a serious step up for you IMO.

Tony



Quote:
Originally Posted by mike lavigne View Post
i've read the last 20 or so pages of this thread, and have an interest in the Trinnov, likely the 16, but maybe the 32. i've tried to figure out the exact differences, but the web page is maddening to navigate. probably i don't need more than the 16. i guess i need some advice and clarity.

i've recently re-booted my Home Theater efforts with the JVC RS4500 + Lumagen Pro + DCR lens, and added an Anthem AVM60 + -4- Revel Atmos ceiling speakers to my pre-existing 7.1 Revel system. and been listening to that for a month or so. sound quality is important to me, as i've been a serious 2 channel guy for many years with a separate dedicated 2 channel room. i have the itch to try and get the sonic results my projector efforts are yielding. i don't dislike what the Anthem is doing but want it all if i can make sense of this.

i'm trying to sort out what might be possible in switching from my current 7.1.4 set-up, to potentially 9.1.6. or 9.3.6. my room is 18.5' L x 14' W x 9' H with a diagonal bump out to double doors beyond the 14' width on one side. as my room is not large i'm thinking 9.?.6 is all i'll need. i can't imagine more speakers. i only have one row of 3 Cinematech Valentino chairs 10' from the screen (i might add 2 more behind).

here are my questions.

1. right now i have 2 older Velodyne subs up front. i'm thinking of moving both of those 2 to the rear and adding 2 new subs up front. does that make sense?
2. right now my 'single' side speakers are older Revel S30's. as i have inside double doors on one side and a window and outside double doors on the other side, my plan would be to move the S30 on the outside wall to the other side toward the rear (more space there on the diagonal wall), and buy two new smaller Revel S16 that could go side by side on the short outside wall between the window and double outside doors. the 'remapping' feature of the Trinnov is very attractive to allow this asymmetrical side speaker set-up to work properly.
3. right now the rear speakers of my 7.1 set-up are Paradigm bookshelf speakers hanging near the ceiling. i'm thinking those can become the last 2 ceiling speakers (for 6 total), and i can add a pair of floor standing Revel M105 monitors below them (again the remapping feature 'optimizing' this).

as it turns out i already have all these speaker locations wired except one. so it's tempting.

am i expecting too much from the remapping/optimizer?

what degree of performance lift can i expect over the Anthem 7.1.4?

will the Trinnov 16 do all this for me. if i want control of 3 sub locations will the 16 do that? what plus's and minus's am i dealing with trying to use 4 subs? do i need this additional $3k mic kit to make this all work?
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post #4810 of 7572 Old 08-12-2018, 03:54 PM
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@mike lavigne

Considering moving to 7.x.6 or 9.x.6 or ...., by far the largest improvement will come just moving to the Trinnov. I moved from 7.x.4 to 9.x.6 and that improvement, in my opinion, is not of the same magnitude as moving to the Trinnov from any other processor other than the Datasat (which is no longer really a contender for a new purchaser).

Once you make the move to the Trinnov, then it is just a matter of room size, and how much toward "the best" are you willing to go. Based upon the current crop of Atmos movies, the biggest jump is to go from 7.x.4 to 7.x.6. After that, while each additional set of speakers, makes an improvement, in a normal sized room, the over all improvements get smaller and smaller as the number of speakers gets larger. Would 12.x.8 be better? Yes. And 20.x.8 would be even "better".

Given your proclivity for "the best" in the 2 channel world, only you know how far you are willing to take this upgrade path.

But, making the move to Trinnov will be a serious and enjoyable eye opener for you.

And has been said by many, whatever you decide, please make sure you include some $$ for a first class professional audio calibrator who not only knows audio and acoustic theory but also the inner workings of the Trinnov.

ENJOY !!
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post #4811 of 7572 Old 08-12-2018, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike lavigne View Post


am i expecting too much from the remapping/optimizer?


will the Trinnov 16 do all this for me. if i want control of 3 sub locations will the 16 do that? what plus's and minus's am i dealing with trying to use 4 subs? do i need this additional $3k mic kit to make this all work?
Since no-one else covered these points.

  • If you want to do 9.1.6 and more than 2 subs then you will need an external DSP such as the minidsp to manage your subs. If you want to keep everything in one box then the 24 channel Alt 32 maybe your only other option.
  • Need to be careful with the remapper. If your speakers are more than a few degrees outside the recommended angles the remapper can do some really un-expected things.
  • The 3D mic should not be costing you $3K

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post #4812 of 7572 Old 08-13-2018, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike lavigne View Post
what degree of performance lift can i expect over the Anthem 7.1.4?
I agree 100% with @adidino that upgrading from an Anthem processor (MRX-720 in my case) to a Trinnov processor (MC12) was a huge upgrade in sonic performance. When I had the Anthem, I felt its forte was the improvement ARC Room EQ provided in bass response and smoothing room modes. The Trinnov Optimizer handles bass even better + does a magnificent job on the rest audio spectrum.

I'm only using 3.1 channels currently, so I haven't explored the Trinnov's mapping performance yet. In fact the highest channel count I ever plan on is 9.1 (no Atmos).

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post #4813 of 7572 Old 08-13-2018, 03:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingwiggi View Post
Since no-one else covered these points.

  • If you want to do 9.1.6 and more than 2 subs then you will need an external DSP such as the minidsp to manage your subs. If you want to keep everything in one box then the 24 channel Alt 32 maybe your only other option.
  • Need to be careful with the remapper. If your speakers are more than a few degrees outside the recommended angles the remapper can do some really un-expected things.
  • The 3D mic should not be costing you $3K

I'm at the same point and I haven't yet started the actual setup & cal (working on installing speakers & re-arranging some gear). My 2 subs are at same distance from MLP in front l/r corners & I'll start by dedicating 2 channels for them but I'd like to eventually make full use of 9.1.6 so I'll probably add a minidsp 2X4HD before too long.

My understanding is remapping uses adjacent speakers to image the ideal correct position of a non-ideal speaker in-between them. So I guess if the adjacent speakers are too far apart or not in the same general area so-to-speak, the result may not be what you'd expect. At least that's the way I have thought it works; someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Steve
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post #4814 of 7572 Old 08-13-2018, 06:05 AM
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Has anyone any experience with using the user/manual FIR filters in the Altitude (under 'Processor -> Outputs -> USer FIR Filter' I think, from memory), as an alternative to PEQ?

Do changes to these user FIR filters get taken into account by the Optimizer (i.e. they will be applied to the speaker output when the optimiser runs the measurement test tones)? As (I assume) they are with any manual PEQ applied?
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post #4815 of 7572 Old 08-13-2018, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
I'm at the same point and I haven't yet started the actual setup & cal (working on installing speakers & re-arranging some gear). My 2 subs are at same distance from MLP in front l/r corners & I'll start by dedicating 2 channels for them but I'd like to eventually make full use of 9.1.6 so I'll probably add a minidsp 2X4HD before too long.

My understanding is remapping uses adjacent speakers to image the ideal correct position of a non-ideal speaker in-between them. So I guess if the adjacent speakers are too far apart or not in the same general area so-to-speak, the result may not be what you'd expect. At least that's the way I have thought it works; someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

If your using two of the same subs at the front and they are spaced fairly equally, then start out with a simple Y-spliiter, only need to purchase the 2X4HD when your needs grow beyond 2 subs.


Yes that's generally how re-mapping works, it only gets weird when sounds start playing out of the wrong speakers unexpectedly, for example when sound meant for the Left speaker starts coming from the LTF but then your left speaker stays silent it kinda throws you off. In general I would suggest paying very close attention to the speaker position for your bed channels then if you need to use remapping for dtx:x or auro height speakers then those are not too problematic.
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post #4816 of 7572 Old 08-13-2018, 10:13 AM
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As a result of reading the most recent Home theater of the Month article (a Trinnov system) I purchased a BR that was mentioned in the review and was recorded in Atmos (The Choir of Kings College Cambridge).

For my musical tastes, might not have been the best $40 I ever spent . Track 5 is very nice as are a few others.

What I found most interesting was that it was recorded in 5.1 Dolby TrueHD, 2.0 LPCM Stereo and Atmos. And you have the ability to instantly switch between any of the three by using one of the color keys on your remote. I was MOST impressed by how well the Dolby up-mixer did with both the 2 channel and 5.1 channel versions. While I lost the wides in the non-Atmos versions, the overall feel was still very similar. The Atmos version was more coherent but the other two were still fairly immersive. Strike another win for the Trinnov !! Strike another loss for audioguy's impulsive spending habits !!
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post #4817 of 7572 Old 08-13-2018, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingwiggi View Post
[*] The 3D mic should not be costing you $3K [/LIST]
No, it shouldn't. And aside from the price, when I am calibrating a system, I suggest that client's not even purchase the microphone. Once the initial measurements are taken, they have free to reign to change target curves, weighting, etc etc, so unless they change speakers or move seats, not much use for most end users to own the mic after the initial calibration.

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post #4818 of 7572 Old 08-14-2018, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Has anyone any experience with using the user/manual FIR filters in the Altitude (under 'Processor -> Outputs -> USer FIR Filter' I think, from memory), as an alternative to PEQ?

Do changes to these user FIR filters get taken into account by the Optimizer (i.e. they will be applied to the speaker output when the optimiser runs the measurement test tones)? As (I assume) they are with any manual PEQ applied?
It is my understanding that aside from the PEQ filters available in the 3D channel layout page, all manual filters are disabled during the measurement process, and are not reflected in the Optimizer graphs.

Target Curves do get applied in the after results of the the Optimizer graphs though.
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post #4819 of 7572 Old 08-14-2018, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by appelz View Post
It is my understanding that aside from the PEQ filters available in the 3D channel layout page, all manual filters are disabled during the measurement process, and are not reflected in the Optimizer graphs.

Target Curves do get applied in the after results of the the Optimizer graphs though.
Thanks Adam
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post #4820 of 7572 Old 08-14-2018, 01:48 PM
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Target Curves do get applied in the after results of the the Optimizer graphs though.
Not sure I understand this. Are you saying that the "after" curves below DO NOT include the Target Curves? If not, what objective(s) does Optimizer use in setting the shape of its results?

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post #4821 of 7572 Old 08-14-2018, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Not sure I understand this. Are you saying that the "after" curves below DO NOT include the Target Curves? If not, what objective(s) does Optimizer use in setting the shape of its results?

No no, "after" curves do include Target Curves.

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post #4822 of 7572 Old 08-14-2018, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
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No no, "after" curves do include Target Curves.
Oops. Poor reading skills on my part!!
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post #4823 of 7572 Old 08-15-2018, 03:41 AM
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Hi, I’m considering getting this processor.
Is everyone pleased with it for 2 channel music use (with and without subs)?
I will have a standard 7.2.4 atmos speaker layout. How well does the remapping work for auro or dts x (if I ever get any content!)?
Everyone happy with the reliability?
Thanks
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post #4824 of 7572 Old 08-15-2018, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Venger99 View Post
Hi, I’m considering getting this processor.
Is everyone pleased with it for 2 channel music use (with and without subs)?
I will have a standard 7.2.4 atmos speaker layout. How well does the remapping work for auro or dts x (if I ever get any content!)?
Everyone happy with the reliability?
Thanks
Just buy it. I am a 2 channel guy and it works perfectly. I do use subs with music but if your speakers don't need them, then it will be just as good. The Optimizer will clean up any room anomalies, it is easily the most immersive surround processor on the market (Datasat no longer makes sense given it's price and channel limitations), has incredible flexibility and I am 99.9999999999% you will absolutely love it. I can't comment on re-mapping since my speakers ended up where they belong and re-mapping was not necessary. Up-mixing 2 channel music with Auro will change the way you listen to music.

Jump on the ship!!
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post #4825 of 7572 Old 08-15-2018, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venger99 View Post
Hi, I’m considering getting this processor.
Is everyone pleased with it for 2 channel music use (with and without subs)?
I will have a standard 7.2.4 atmos speaker layout. How well does the remapping work for auro or dts x (if I ever get any content!)?
Everyone happy with the reliability?
Thanks
In re: 2ch performance, I've used Trinnov in my 2ch only system for ~8 years and couldn't be more pleased. Once you implement SotA room correction into your system, you'll likely be blown away.

As for remapping, it's not a cure-all for just any speaker placement, and I would recommend you talk to guys like Sanjay @sdurani for suggestions on a best compromise Dolby/DTS layout. If you properly place speakers in a "compromise" setup, remapping should work quite well.


And, you've got a PM.
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post #4826 of 7572 Old 08-15-2018, 07:03 PM
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For my musical tastes, might not have been the best $40 I ever spent
Hint: Try Youtube before you buy.
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post #4827 of 7572 Old 08-16-2018, 05:05 AM
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Hint: Try Youtube before you buy.
Great idea. I will try to remember that NeXT time.

After listening to the entire disc, there is ONE cut that is quite nice ... but I would have been just fine using the $40 for a couple of movies.
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post #4828 of 7572 Old 08-16-2018, 05:21 AM
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Thanks for the replies. Sounds good.
Will buy a bunch of flowers for my wife prior to negotiations starting! Lol.
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post #4829 of 7572 Old 08-16-2018, 03:11 PM
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Thanks for the replies. Sounds good.
Will buy a bunch of flowers for my wife prior to negotiations starting! Lol.
When I was working with SigTech, I sold one of our most expensive versions ($13,000) to a very well-to-do business owner. When his wife returned home, she asked what he spent. When he told her, she smiled and said: "Perfect! That means I can buy $13,000 worth of jewelry!!!!"
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post #4830 of 7572 Old 08-16-2018, 04:08 PM
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Thanks for the replies. Sounds good.
Will buy a bunch of flowers for my wife prior to negotiations starting! Lol.

I didn't have to negotiate but we are going on a nice trip so she's happy While I'm not quite ready to do my initial calibration (hope to be ready 2nd week Sept) my explorations into the Altitude 16 so far convinced me it's powerful and can do anything you'd want in audio formats & speaker configuration only surpassed by an Alt 32 of course. You won't regret getting it.

Still, flowers would be a good idea

Steve
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