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post #4831 of 7501 Old 08-16-2018, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by kingwiggi View Post
Not a K-Scape owner but I received my disc copy early.

This movie has a phenomenal soundtrack, I heard no evidence of any dynamic range compression. The soundtrack is a minimum 7.1.6 with very active use of all 6 height speakers throughout. Wides were deadly silent. The LFE track is one of the best I have heard and it wasn't used just for explosions they used it judiciously to portray emotion in some of the darker scenes of the movie.

I would give video and audio a 10/10 on this one. Some V. good demo material.

So, it looks like Disney is still in the practice of doing some sort of fixed pattern Atmos mix render even if they kept their gloved hands away from the dynamic range compressor knob this go-around.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
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post #4832 of 7501 Old 08-16-2018, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
So, it looks like Disney is still in the practice of doing some sort of fixed pattern Atmos mix render even if they kept their gloved hands away from the dynamic range compressor knob this go-around.


Not necessarily Sdrucker or someone else with 24 > channels will be able to tell whether or not it’s been hobbled. All we know for now is that it is at least 7.1.6 and the dynamic range hasn’t been compressed.

I will probably be adding another 8 channels soon.


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post #4833 of 7501 Old 08-17-2018, 07:20 AM
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For those Trinnov users who use an external box for managing your subs:

I know many use one of the QSC products. What are the advantages it has over something like a miniDSP or Xilica? What specific product in the QSC line do you use and why that one? Does it have remote management capabilities? The last I looked, it seemed like the one that was recommend cost something like $6,000 !!!!!

Thanks

I have been happily using a miniDSP but it may have gone "toes up" and I am going to investigate what other options I have.
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post #4834 of 7501 Old 08-17-2018, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingwiggi View Post
Not necessarily Sdrucker or someone else with 24 > channels will be able to tell whether or not it’s been hobbled. All we know for now is that it is at least 7.1.6 and the dynamic range hasn’t been compressed.

I will probably be adding another 8 channels soon.


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"Hobbled" isn't as good a word as "primitive" in how they approached the Atmos mix on Infinity Wars. See my comments on the UHD's movie thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/187-o...l#post56648960

I have another screenshot I took of the peaks of the movie, and it's obvious they just rendered to 7.1.6. They didn't make much use sonically of the heights (unless you listen at reference all the time, their impact is at best subtle), but they did use all three pairs, which I guess is progress over 7.1.4. I still had to raise my db level about +8 over my normal setting, though, so Disney did their mix to low levels approach again.

Pretty obvious to heard the difference in how mixes are rendered - put on the first few minutes of Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle, and the heights leap out at you right away, with music score being elevated by the nice use of the front height speakers. If it were Disney the score would just be in the mains.
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post #4835 of 7501 Old 08-17-2018, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
For those Trinnov users who use an external box for managing your subs:

I know many use one of the QSC products. What are the advantages it has over something like a miniDSP or Xilica? What specific product in the QSC line do you use and why that one? Does it have remote management capabilities? The last I looked, it seemed like the one that was recommend cost something like $6,000 !!!!!

Thanks

I have been happily using a miniDSP but it may have gone "toes up" and I am going to investigate what other options I have.
I am using an Xilica XP-4080 and the only limitation I am aware of is the fact that the lowest frequency I can set a PEQ is 20Hz. I know Adam Pelz with the Erskine Group uses the QSC products. I will look through my correspondence and find out which model.

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post #4836 of 7501 Old 08-17-2018, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingwiggi View Post
Not a K-Scape owner but I received my disc copy early.

This movie has a phenomenal soundtrack, I heard no evidence of any dynamic range compression. The soundtrack is a minimum 7.1.6 with very active use of all 6 height speakers throughout. Wides were deadly silent. The LFE track is one of the best I have heard and it wasn't used just for explosions they used it judiciously to portray emotion in some of the darker scenes of the movie.

I would give video and audio a 10/10 on this one. Some V. good demo material.
I agree that the soundtrack is phenomenal ... after I boosted my main volume about 5dB and then had to boost my sub levels about 4dB. It is pretty well discussed in some of the bass forums. This disc is not nearly as bad as Black Panther regarding compression. The general soundtrack is quite amazing on Infinity Wars once the levels are boosted.

7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5 for surround & ceiling
Subs: JTR Captivator S2, JTR Captivator S1, 2 Seaton Submersive (dual 15")
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post #4837 of 7501 Old 08-17-2018, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
I agree that the soundtrack is phenomenal ... after I boosted my main volume about 5dB and then had to boost my sub levels about 4dB. It is pretty well discussed in some of the bass forums. This disc is not nearly as bad as Black Panther regarding compression. The general soundtrack is quite amazing on Infinity Wars once the levels are boosted.
Are you talking about Avengers Infinity Wars? $44.00 for a Blu Ray on Amazon?
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post #4838 of 7501 Old 08-17-2018, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Are you talking about Avengers Infinity Wars? $44.00 for a Blu Ray on Amazon?
Cheaper here
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post #4839 of 7501 Old 08-17-2018, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Not sure I understand this. Are you saying that the "after" curves below DO NOT include the Target Curves? If not, what objective(s) does Optimizer use in setting the shape of its results?

With a 'before' scan like that it shows how well your room is set up! Well done. I really like your room, it has the sort of acoustic treatment detail I am looking to do myself when I get to building mine.

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post #4840 of 7501 Old 08-17-2018, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
"Hobbled" isn't as good a word as "primitive" in how they approached the Atmos mix on Infinity Wars. See my comments on the UHD's movie thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/187-o...l#post56648960

I have another screenshot I took of the peaks of the movie, and it's obvious they just rendered to 7.1.6. They didn't make much use sonically of the heights (unless you listen at reference all the time, their impact is at best subtle), but they did use all three pairs, which I guess is progress over 7.1.4. I still had to raise my db level about +8 over my normal setting, though, so Disney did their mix to low levels approach again.

Pretty obvious to heard the difference in how mixes are rendered - put on the first few minutes of Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle, and the heights leap out at you right away, with music score being elevated by the nice use of the front height speakers. If it were Disney the score would just be in the mains.

Goddamn it! What is it with those jokers... really!

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
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post #4841 of 7501 Old 08-18-2018, 07:21 AM
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With a 'before' scan like that it shows how well your room is set up! Well done. I really like your room, it has the sort of acoustic treatment detail I am looking to do myself when I get to building mine.
Thank you for the nice words. The room is well treated, thanks to the expert (and basically free****) advice of Glenn Kuras (GIK). And even without room correction, the mids/highs are very good. But, the graph you referenced is a bit misleading in that the scale is (major increments) 20db!! I know GIK ships internationally but his prices may not be so acceptable given where you live.

**** I paid very little for the overall initial plan (<$1000 if I recall correctly) done by someone associated with his company but then Glenn and I altered it a bit. The money came in when I decided to implement ALL of his recommendations - so I have about $10,000 invested in room treatment.
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post #4842 of 7501 Old 08-18-2018, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
With a 'before' scan like that it shows how well your room is set up! Well done. I really like your room, it has the sort of acoustic treatment detail I am looking to do myself when I get to building mine.
It is a well set up room, but there is also some PEQ in place to get the nice looking "before" graphs.

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post #4843 of 7501 Old 08-18-2018, 02:39 PM
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It is a well set up room, but there is also some PEQ in place to get the nice looking "before" graphs.
It does indeed have PEQs in place. But even with them disabled but at the scale shown, the response still looks very good. I tend to evaluate response where the major increments are 5db with the individual lines at 1dB. Few FR's look so "pretty" at that scale.
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post #4844 of 7501 Old 08-18-2018, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
It does indeed have PEQs in place. But even with them disabled but at the scale shown, the response still looks very good. I tend to evaluate response where the major increments are 5db with the individual lines at 1dB. Few FR's look so "pretty" at that scale.
Silly question: are your Optimizer graphs at 1/12 octave display resolution?

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post #4845 of 7501 Old 08-18-2018, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
It does indeed have PEQs in place. But even with them disabled but at the scale shown, the response still looks very good. I tend to evaluate response where the major increments are 5db with the individual lines at 1dB. Few FR's look so "pretty" at that scale.
Ahh I really thought that was 10db scale...

EDIT: now I see each notch is 2.5db hmm.

I am highly considering the Altitude 16, it looks phenomenal. The Optimiser seems to be amazing.

Here are my active modular towers I designed dialled in across a 6point measurement at the MLP. Build is in my signature if you are interested. Can't wait to get these into a really good room so they can sing properly. 1/12th smoothing. 5db scale.


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Last edited by Javs; 08-18-2018 at 08:04 PM.
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post #4846 of 7501 Old 08-18-2018, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Ahh I really thought that was 10db scale...

EDIT: now I see each notch is 2.5db hmm.

I am highly considering the Altitude 16, it looks phenomenal. The Optimiser seems to be amazing.

Here are my active modular towers I designed dialled in across a 6point measurement at the MLP. Build is in my signature if you are interested. Can't wait to get these into a really good room so they can sing properly. 1/12th smoothing. 5db scale.

First of all, the Altitude 16 is a phenomenal piece of equipment. I don't know what you are using now but the improvement achieved from moving from your "basic" $3500 SSP to this caliber piece of equipment is kind of mind boggling. Most certainly not an inexpensive piece but if your objective is the ultimate 3D audio envelopment experience, this is what will get you there

Secondly, your measured response is excellent. I am sure your system sounds great.
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post #4847 of 7501 Old 08-20-2018, 04:50 PM
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Major Trinnov news here in the US:
http://www.hiddenwires.co.uk/news/ar...y-and-new-hire

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post #4848 of 7501 Old 08-20-2018, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
For those Trinnov users who use an external box for managing your subs:

I know many use one of the QSC products. What are the advantages it has over something like a miniDSP or Xilica? What specific product in the QSC line do you use and why that one? Does it have remote management capabilities? The last I looked, it seemed like the one that was recommend cost something like $6,000 !!!!!

Thanks

I have been happily using a miniDSP but it may have gone "toes up" and I am going to investigate what other options I have.
Though not a Trinnov user (yet), I have/had both the miniDSP and QSC core products in use. The miniDSP was used exclusively for sub management via correction filters needed for seat to seat variability (DIRAC Live user), and with the QSC core upgrade, I use it (the core) to manage the entire system including the subs. If the goal is to simply add shelving filters post-processing, and adjusting individual levels, then the miniDSP is pretty much all you need. With other systems, gaps exist for sound management that something like a QSC core fills in very nicely albeit with a steep learning curve. This is not the case with an Altitude 16 or 32 that has most of this functionality built into the software.
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post #4849 of 7501 Old 08-20-2018, 05:13 PM
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I read a review of the altitude 16 which mentioned the speaker remapping of a standard 7.1.4 atmos layout to Auro. It said it could remap all the higher rows but not the “voice of god” top speaker.
https://www.avforums.com/review/trin...6-review.15079
Is this correct, and if so why? Surely the VOG speaker could just be created by all ceiling speakers giving the same signal.wouldnt this centre the image in the middle?
Thanks.
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post #4850 of 7501 Old 08-20-2018, 05:14 PM
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Yeah for US Trinnov customers. I had a chance to communicate with Chuck Back during my Trinnov purchase. He will be a good addition to the Trinnov team.
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post #4851 of 7501 Old 08-20-2018, 05:50 PM
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That's been in place for a couple of months now.. Chuck actually worked for the rep company that handled Trinnov at the time... good guy.
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post #4852 of 7501 Old 08-20-2018, 05:56 PM
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That's been in place for a couple of months now.. Chuck actually worked for the rep company that handled Trinnov at the time... good guy.
Agreed he’s a stand-up professional from the conversations we’ve had at CEDIA shows. It’s a good move to more formally bring him aboard.

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post #4853 of 7501 Old 08-20-2018, 06:22 PM
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Is it true that the Optimizer (target curves) can do no adjustment south of 20Hz? Even my Datasat would go lower.
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post #4854 of 7501 Old 08-20-2018, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venger99 View Post
I read a review of the altitude 16 which mentioned the speaker remapping of a standard 7.1.4 atmos layout to Auro. It said it could remap all the higher rows but not the “voice of god” top speaker.
https://www.avforums.com/review/trin...6-review.15079
Is this correct, and if so why? Surely the VOG speaker could just be created by all ceiling speakers giving the same signal.wouldnt this centre the image in the middle?
Thanks.
Not with 7.1.4. But if you have a 7.1.6 setup with top middles, with simple reconfiguration of speakers for Auro and also having both TMs play the T (VOG) content, as long as you also have top rears as well, 3D remapping will give you a reasonable approximation. Better to have a true pair of surround heights rather than rely on remapping for mapping Atmos to an Auro layout, but considering the tradeoffs and available content, it’s better than no Auro IMO.

You might need some pro support to get this right, though.

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post #4855 of 7501 Old 08-20-2018, 06:56 PM
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That's been in place for a couple of months now.. Chuck actually worked for the rep company that handled Trinnov at the time... good guy.
I didn't realize Sound Developments no longer distributed Trinnov, who is the current distributor in the US?

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post #4856 of 7501 Old 08-20-2018, 07:03 PM
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They are direct to dealer now. Which i prefer, personally. Support seems better and much quicker shipping.

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That's been in place for a couple of months now.. Chuck actually worked for the rep company that handled Trinnov at the time... good guy.
I didn't realize Sound Developments no longer distributed Trinnov, who is the current distributor in the US?

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post #4857 of 7501 Old 08-20-2018, 08:36 PM
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I am considering an Altitude 16. I owned the Datasat LS10 for about a year and now I have the Marantz 8805 due to the ability to run another set of Atmos speakers. The Marantz is just too limiting (in the PEQ / EQ area) but it really does sound incredible for the price. I was proficient with the Datasat and setting PEQ. I am an engineer and love to tinker, but how hard is the Trinnov to program / set up if I want to do it my self (including use of the room optimizer). I am pretty confident I can master if fairly easy but want the groups input.

Are there decent online manuals or tutorials? Or does the training only go to the dealers?

7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5 for surround & ceiling
Subs: JTR Captivator S2, JTR Captivator S1, 2 Seaton Submersive (dual 15")
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420
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post #4858 of 7501 Old 08-21-2018, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
I am considering an Altitude 16. I owned the Datasat LS10 for about a year and now I have the Marantz 8805 due to the ability to run another set of Atmos speakers. The Marantz is just too limiting (in the PEQ / EQ area) but it really does sound incredible for the price. I was proficient with the Datasat and setting PEQ. I am an engineer and love to tinker, but how hard is the Trinnov to program / set up if I want to do it my self (including use of the room optimizer). I am pretty confident I can master if fairly easy but want the groups input.

Are there decent online manuals or tutorials? Or does the training only go to the dealers?
FWIW, see Gareth's @Wooki experience here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ul...l#post56359322
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post #4859 of 7501 Old 08-21-2018, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
I am considering an Altitude 16. I owned the Datasat LS10 for about a year and now I have the Marantz 8805 due to the ability to run another set of Atmos speakers. The Marantz is just too limiting (in the PEQ / EQ area) but it really does sound incredible for the price. I was proficient with the Datasat and setting PEQ. I am an engineer and love to tinker, but how hard is the Trinnov to program / set up if I want to do it my self (including use of the room optimizer). I am pretty confident I can master if fairly easy but want the groups input.

Are there decent online manuals or tutorials? Or does the training only go to the dealers?
Setting PEQs, is not difficult just different than the LS10. Same with target curves. With some exceptions, the primary issue in setting this up vs the LS10 is trying to find stuff. Organized totally different. It has lots of features/capabilities/strenghts that the LS10 does not have - too many to list here. I will post a link to the user manual below. There are some areas where it was STRONGLY suggested that I not touch (by Jon Herron and Chuck Back) so I had Adam do all of the initial setup and now I can diddle with other settings until I get bored.

As long as you don't "unlock" the settings/presets that someone else did (in my case Adam Pelz) you are good to go. Just make a copy of his presets and modify as you desire.

Just go buy one and join the group!

PM sent !!

MANUAL
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post #4860 of 7501 Old 08-21-2018, 08:17 AM
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A16 is a finalist in Best New Products for CEDIA.

https://www.cedia.net/insights/cedia...d=1062257&jb=0
mikela, ss9001 and sdrucker like this.
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