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post #4861 of 7518 Old 08-21-2018, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by RUR View Post
A16 is a finalist in Best New Products for CEDIA.

https://www.cedia.net/insights/cedia...d=1062257&jb=0
Very cool. What I didn't see on the list was any new projectors (bummed!)
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post #4862 of 7518 Old 08-22-2018, 08:14 AM
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Some questions:

Attached is a plot of the LFE with (red) and without (blue) Optimizer. Either optimizer does not know what to do below 20Hz (can't set target curve below 20Hz) or something else is going on.



I can FIX this by adding another PEQ (have tried it and it worked) but I'm not sure why I should have to. I did not have this issue with Dirac on my Datasat. What am I missing .. or is there some special hidden menu that allows me to have a target curve that operates below 20Hz?

Also, I remember seeing it once but can not find it - for adding a post Optimizer PEQ?
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post #4863 of 7518 Old 08-22-2018, 08:16 AM
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I don't see an attachment

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Some questions:

Attached is a plot of the LFE with (red) and without (blue) Optimizer. Either optimizer does not know what to do below 20Hz (can set target curve below 20Hz) or something else is going on.

I can FIX this by adding another PEQ (have tried it and it worked) but I'm not sure why I should have to. I did not have this issue with Dirac on my Datasat. What am I missing .. or is there some special hidden menu that allows me to have a target curve that operates below 20Hz?

Also, I remember seeing it once but can not find it - for adding a post Optimizer PEQ?
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post #4864 of 7518 Old 08-22-2018, 08:26 AM
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I'm checking now but I believe there is a setting to adjust the optimizer range. I'll post back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Some questions:

Attached is a plot of the LFE with (red) and without (blue) Optimizer. Either optimizer does not know what to do below 20Hz (can't set target curve below 20Hz) or something else is going on.



I can FIX this by adding another PEQ (have tried it and it worked) but I'm not sure why I should have to. I did not have this issue with Dirac on my Datasat. What am I missing .. or is there some special hidden menu that allows me to have a target curve that operates below 20Hz?

Also, I remember seeing it once but can not find it - for adding a post Optimizer PEQ?
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post #4865 of 7518 Old 08-22-2018, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post
I'm checking now but I believe there is a setting to adjust the optimizer range. I'll post back.
Under Optimizer Settings, Settings tab, Acoustics correction setting - High-Pass filter frequency. By default it's set to disabled. Try enabling and set the freq limit. You prob have the remeasure.
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post #4866 of 7518 Old 08-22-2018, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post
Under Optimizer Settings, Settings tab, Acoustics correction setting - High-Pass filter frequency. By default it's set to disabled. Try enabling and set the freq limit. You prob have the remeasure.
Mine is set to disable and that seems appropriate. I want NO high pass filter setting so "disable" seems to be the right setting. But for grins, I changed it to 7Hz and no difference ... so I changed it back.

Is there a way to have a target curve go below 20Hz?

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post #4867 of 7518 Old 08-22-2018, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Mine is set to disable and that seems appropriate. I want NO highness filter setting so "disable" seems to be the right setting. But for grins, I changed it to 7Hz and no difference ... so I changed it back.

Is there a way to have a target curve go below 20Hz?
The PEQ & shelving filters on the channel outputs can be input and affect below 20Hz. For what you have there, a low shelf filter is the correct fix. I would also be interested in a screen shot of the before/after/filter curves for the Sub channel or channels. I found some peculiar behavior with the supposed applied correction curve vs what was measured in a recent system, while similar measurements showed all of the full range channels exhibiting roughly the predicted difference with correction on. While the results didn't exactly match the filter curves until many more filters were used, and/or the maximum IIR filter frequency was lowered. These settings are further down the screen in the FIR & IIR Settings block further down the image adidino posted:

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post #4868 of 7518 Old 08-22-2018, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
The PEQ & shelving filters on the channel outputs can be input and affect below 20Hz. For what you have there, a low shelf filter is the correct fix. I would also be interested in a screen shot of the before/after/filter curves for the Sub channel or channels. I found some peculiar behavior with the supposed applied correction curve vs what was measured in a recent system, while similar measurements showed all of the full range channels exhibiting roughly the predicted difference with correction on. While the results didn't exactly match the filter curves until many more filters were used, and/or the maximum IIR filter frequency was lowered. These settings are further down the screen in the FIR & IIR Settings block further down the image adidino posted:
Mark, in addition to increasing the number of IIR filters and lowering the minimal IIR frequency (presumably down to 10Hz), would your recommendation be to utilize an outboard DSP with Multi Sub Optimizer software (MSO) to flatten everything out. If so, better to run MSO prior to Trinnov correction or after in your opinion. The MSO manual discusses prior to room correction, but curious as to your thoughts. It would be nice if the software allowed the limiter feature to be adjustable per speaker and not globally, or at least have the correction not applied to the sub channel. This way those that want to can correct externally with what seems to be more graphically accurate results (perceived sound quality being subjective).
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post #4869 of 7518 Old 08-22-2018, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jish9 View Post
Mark, in addition to increasing the number of IIR filters and lowering the minimal IIR frequency (presumably down to 10Hz), would your recommendation be to utilize an outboard DSP with Multi Sub Optimizer software (MSO) to flatten everything out. If so, better to run MSO prior to Trinnov correction or after in your opinion. The MSO manual discusses prior to room correction, but curious as to your thoughts. It would be nice if the software allowed the limiter feature to be adjustable per speaker and not globally, or at least have the correction not applied to the sub channel. This way those that want to can correct externally with what seems to be more graphically accurate results (perceived sound quality being subjective).
The best approach is to first apply PEQ in either the channel output PEQ of the Trinnov or in an external device and THEN take your calibration measurements for the optimizer. After you run the optimizer you can still go back and add a couple filters as needed. If setting the subs up as a multi-way speaker, there is also a nice feature to copy filters to the other outputs of the same speaker, but you have to make sure you don't wipe out any channel specific EQ.

The limitation is not the lower IIR frequency limit, but appears to be more dependent on the upper frequency limit. This is likely due to there being more narrow deviations in the upper frequency range which can quickly eat up the allocated number of IIR filters which defaults at 10 filters. Either more filters need to be available, and/or the upper filter limit needs to be reduced.
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post #4870 of 7518 Old 08-22-2018, 05:03 PM
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I understand about using Crestron and the like to control the Trinnov, but out of curiosity, has anyone tried using an MCE remote to switch between the standby mode (on/off) via the Harmony on the Altitude 16 or 32? Is such a thing even realistic given that the Trinnov remote has no standby button to begin with?
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post #4871 of 7518 Old 08-23-2018, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jish9 View Post
I understand about using Crestron and the like to control the Trinnov, but out of curiosity, has anyone tried using an MCE remote to switch between the standby mode (on/off) via the Harmony on the Altitude 16 or 32? Is such a thing even realistic given that the Trinnov remote has no standby button to begin with?
Trinnov expands to 48 and 64 channels...

From its introduction in 2015, Trinnov’s Altitude32 has been fully capable of rendering 32 discrete channels. Now, as DSP-chipset manufacturers are finally about to achieve rendering of 16 channels, Trinnov engineering has created a solution to enable even more discrete channels from the Altitude32, expanding the count to 48 discretely-rendered channels by using the Altitude’s 32 analog outputs and its 16 AES digital outputs simultaneously.

This will allow – for the first time – users to experience the full immersive capabilities of Home Atmos, with its maximum 24.1.10 layout, plus an additional 14 channels that enable more possibilities in terms of bass management, multi-amplified speakers, and Trinnov Remapping.

However, the 16 AES digital outputs require an AES multi-channel High-End DAC that performs as well as the Altitude’s own renowned DAC. Trinnov’s solution is the new Altitude48ext. Based on the Trinnov Magnitude32, the Altitude48ext provides 16 channels of AES/EBU input and up to 32 channels of analog outputs, using the same state-of-the-art DACs used in the Altitude32. This ensures perfect coherence in the final rendering and brings the total potential channel count to 64 independently processed channels.

The 48ext (“48 extension”) is much more than just a DAC. It is a fully capable Trinnov unit with the processing power to perform tasks such as implementing and calibrating up to 4-way active crossovers, unlimited bass management, and both third-octave and FIR equalization. Combining the 48ext with an Altitude32 that has the 48 channel option gives users access to 48 discrete channels and as many as 64 independently processed channels, pushing even further the boundaries of what is achievable in a high-end Home Theater.


The Altitude48ext will be showcased at CEDIA Expo 2018. Availability is expected this fall, with pricing to be announced.

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post #4872 of 7518 Old 08-23-2018, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
I would also be interested in a screen shot of the before/after/filter curves for the Sub channel or channels.
Here is the amplitude set. If you are looking for the other options (phase, group delay, etc) I can get those posted on Sunday.

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post #4873 of 7518 Old 08-23-2018, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jish9 View Post
I understand about using Crestron and the like to control the Trinnov, but out of curiosity, has anyone tried using an MCE remote to switch between the standby mode (on/off) via the Harmony on the Altitude 16 or 32?

I did this with the Altitude 16 and an Harmony Elite. There is only a basic set of commands for the Altitude in the Harmony database the last time I checked so you have to teach the remote the extra IR codes for on/off or additional source inputs. For the Altitude 32 you really need a device that supports WOL and since WOL is generally not doable over wi-fi it is unlikely to be supported in any of Harmony's current devices.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jish9 View Post
Is such a thing even realistic given that the Trinnov remote has no standby button to begin with?

There are on/off buttons on the Trinnov remote that work with the Altitude 16, they just arn't labelled on/off since they have a dual function.

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post #4874 of 7518 Old 08-23-2018, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingwiggi View Post
I did this with the Altitude 16 and an Harmony Elite. There is only a basic set of commands for the Altitude in the Harmony database the last time I checked so you have to teach the remote the extra IR codes for on/off or additional source inputs. For the Altitude 32 you really need a device that supports WOL and since WOL is generally not doable over wi-fi it is unlikely to be supported in any of Harmony's current devices.

I know it's so 1990s to just use separate apps, but at least for my room, until I get the Lumagen set up I've managed to get by with KISS and simply turn the Altitude on by hitting the On button . It's on the middle shelf of a component rack I can easily reach when I come into the room. From there I've used the VNC, Oppo remotes, and various Roku/Xfinity/JRiver apps via my iPad. Switching between them is second nature for me. I wouldn't recommend this for anyone other than a single critical user and a few seats, so if I were a CI I'd have a Crestron or iRule or something for the kind of rooms where the Altitude shines.


However, once I have the video chain installed and need to synch up content across devices in a single ecosystem, I really need to integrate it all into a multi-device macro, so I'll probably have to look into the real stuff. It's clear that by itself, the Harmony is a crude way to accomplish this with today's technology, especially if you're even beginning to think of a whole home approach.


Case in point: I added a Schlage electronic lock to our house which can be controlled over a network remotely, given the right security and adaptor. When you want to tie in blinds, lights, the lock etc. into a single system with the Altitude and the gear, not to mention HVAC, you're in the big leagues...

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post #4875 of 7518 Old 08-23-2018, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
I've managed to get by with KISS and simply turn the Altitude on by hitting the On button .
Unfortunately I don’t do KISS very well, although I still remember as a child I was the remote so getting up and pressing buttons should come naturally but now I don’t have to. 😀

I do keep a harmony around for those times when having something tactile to press just makes sense, and not everyone in my house has the patience to work with an iPad every time they want to change a channel or the volume.

I personally love working things out that’s why I don’t like being tied to closed systems so I feel quite at home with apps like Simple Control that I can tweak till my hearts content and it does all of the automation HVAC / lights / Insteon /Blinds stuff too. Moving onto QSC touch screens next and Lua scripting.


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post #4876 of 7518 Old 08-23-2018, 11:05 AM
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Quick insignificant question incoming...

Is it Altitude32 or Altitude 32? The old Trinnov website used Altitude32 but the new website uses both.
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post #4877 of 7518 Old 08-23-2018, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingwiggi View Post
I did this with the Altitude 16 and an Harmony Elite. There is only a basic set of commands for the Altitude in the Harmony database the last time I checked so you have to teach the remote the extra IR codes for on/off or additional source inputs. For the Altitude 32 you really need a device that supports WOL and since WOL is generally not doable over wi-fi it is unlikely to be supported in any of Harmony's current devices.





There are on/off buttons on the Trinnov remote that work with the Altitude 16, they just arn't labelled on/off since they have a dual function.
Thanks for the clarification. Actually, the Harmony database does support the basic functions on the remote for the Altitude 32 which was kind of surprising. With an MCE remote, it functions via USB dongle that converts IR signal to WOL assuming the PC is in a S3 sleep state. This can be converted as part of the activity to send the command when you launch the specific activity. I just was curious how true to a PC the Trinnov behaves and it seems like it is exactly like a desktop PC in that regard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
However, once I have the video chain installed and need to synch up content across devices in a single ecosystem, I really need to integrate it all into a multi-device macro, so I'll probably have to look into the real stuff. It's clear that by itself, the Harmony is a crude way to accomplish this with today's technology, especially if you're even beginning to think of a whole home approach.


Case in point: I added a Schlage electronic lock to our house which can be controlled over a network remotely, given the right security and adaptor. When you want to tie in blinds, lights, the lock etc. into a single system with the Altitude and the gear, not to mention HVAC, you're in the big leagues...
Yes and no. With today's use of IOT (internet of things), there are some very powerful solutions that provide total automation without the need to step into more elaborate systems like Crestron or Savant. For example, many systems (e.g. Insteon) integrate NEST into their HVAC protocol as well as locks, windows, blinds, etc at a fraction of the cost or complexity of a Crestron system. For me I have it setup separately for the theater versus the whole house and am looking into how to integrate something like a Trinnov in the mix.
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post #4878 of 7518 Old 08-23-2018, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jish9 View Post
I just was curious how true to a PC the Trinnov behaves and it seems like it is exactly like a desktop PC in that regard.

Yep, you can even go into the bios and turn WOL on/off if you so desire.

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post #4880 of 7518 Old 08-26-2018, 01:09 PM
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Anyone watched Deadpool 2? The heights are really quiet - particularly odd for an action flick
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Anyone watched Deadpool 2? The heights are really quiet - particularly odd for an action flick
Was that way in the theater from my recollection.
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From what I have read the trinnov room processing seems to be the best or amongst the best.
Has anyone compared 2 channel sound with the lyndorf or Krell processors?
Thanks
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Anyone watched Deadpool 2? The heights are really quiet - particularly odd for an action flick
Yes, I noticed this as well.

And Thor Ragnarock in 4K is mastered about 10DB lower than the audio on the menus... most annoying.
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Im very close to pulling the trigger on the Altitude 16.

A few queries: Given its based on PC architecture.. Is there a boot time when you turn it on?

What about fan noise?
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Im very close to pulling the trigger on the Altitude 16.

A few queries: Given its based on PC architecture.. Is there a boot time when you turn it on?

What about fan noise?
Boottime cirka 45 sek.
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Originally Posted by rola View Post
Boottime cirka 45 sek.
Do people just leave it on all the time then?
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post #4887 of 7518 Old 08-31-2018, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by jholko View Post
Do people just leave it on all the time then?
I have a c4 system and the altitude is set to boot on input with atv4k, and the atv is always on. Therefore I get picture from atv slightly before the Altitude responses to commands.
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post #4888 of 7518 Old 08-31-2018, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Venger99 View Post
From what I have read the trinnov room processing seems to be the best or amongst the best.
Has anyone compared 2 channel sound with the lyndorf or Krell processors?
Thanks
I haven't directly compared them although I have heard @RUR 's 2 channel Altitude system. It's the best stereo that I have heard...simply amazing!
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post #4889 of 7518 Old 08-31-2018, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by rola View Post
I have a c4 system and the altitude is set to boot on input with atv4k, and the atv is always on. Therefore I get picture from atv slightly before the Altitude responses to commands.
Thank you - what bout fan noise? Is there any?
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post #4890 of 7518 Old 08-31-2018, 04:16 PM
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I’ve noticed a few people on the thread measure their room response separate to the trinnov mic and its curves.
What system do you use and how much is it?
Presumably need a good mic, tone generator and an analysis package.
Does it generate its own pink noise and how do you send the signal to your amp / speakers?
I would be curious as to what my room curve is like without any correction. It would also be helpful to guide placement of my front three speakers and subs.
I appreciate the trinnov will do this and tell me the optimum positions.
I suspect the room will benefit from correction, but would be nice to know how much and therefore how much of a difference I could expect post room correction.
Thanks
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