Trinnov Altitude - Page 203 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6061 of 9079 Old 01-18-2019, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by termatogazi View Post
do you think is good to use the outputs from trinnov to every sub of mine so to have the distances that trinnov shows for my subs and then copy those distances to mini dsp?
I'm guessing the delay the mini dsp introduces when in the signal chain is different from the delay that the Altitude introduces, so this probably won't work well.

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post #6062 of 9079 Old 01-18-2019, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
I'm not suggesting applying PEQ to an individual sub to get it to a flat individual response, but applying PEQ to a specific sub to get the combined response flat, which an individual sub is contributing to an error in the combined response.....For example say Sub 1 is flat between 60-80Hz, but Sub 2 has a peak between 60-80Hz, that is producing a +3dB peak in the combined response, I would apply the -3dB PEQ filter to just Sub 1, and not Sub 2.

Thanks for the fuller explanation since I too misinterpreted what you had posted. And I agree with you. I used to do exactly that with my Velodyne DD18 sub with built-in PEQ, no matter what make/model sub was my 2nd one at the time. Since Pioneer at that time didn't EQ subs, I used the Velodyne PEQ system, then the SVS Audyssey add-on box, before getting into full-blown Audyssey and now Trinnov. I used the Velodyne to EQ the combined response from both subs.



We're on the same page
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post #6063 of 9079 Old 01-19-2019, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Perfectionist2 View Post
I would never recommend Savant to anyone. Horrible experience with poor reliability, software bugs and unresponsive and unhelpful support. In my experience, their attitude is "the customer is always wrong." To make matters worse, they essentially killed LiteTouch after purchasing the company leaving all their customers totally in the cold.
Absolutely agree. I ripped Savant out of three rooms and have all the boxes stacked up in the basement awaiting the next electronics recycling day. I tried but couldn't even give them away. I scavenged the Mac Mini's out of them, of course. Completely unreliable and I hated having to call a programmer every time I needed a small change or added a new piece of equipment. I do my own programming now and will never go back to a proprietary CI-type system where I am dependent on someone else for programming.
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post #6064 of 9079 Old 01-19-2019, 09:41 AM
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^^
"will never go back to a proprietary CI-type system where I am dependent on someone else for programming"

Completely agree. And I think your Savant horror stories kind of make my case

Steve

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post #6065 of 9079 Old 01-19-2019, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Chuck, you highlighted part of the quote of my post, but not the most important part:



I'm not suggesting applying PEQ to an individual sub to get it to a flat individual response, but applying PEQ to a specific sub to get the combined response flat, which an individual sub is contributing to an error in the combined response. It's probably as broad as its long, compared to applying the PEQ to the combined response, thats just the way I have always done it.

For example say Sub 1 is flat between 60-80Hz, but Sub 2 has a peak between 60-80Hz, that is producing a +3dB peak in the combined response, I would apply the -3dB PEQ filter to just Sub 2, and not Sub 1.

I'm always referencing the combined response, but where appropriate (and only where appropriate) adjusting the subs individually to optimse that combined response.

Edit: Bear in mind also, I do this with just two subs in my room (which has proved sufficient to get a good smooth response) - scaling that up to 4 or more subs might not be practical to achieve manually.
Got it. I misunderstood. And while I have EIGHT subs, I treat them as TWO. I've never done it your way (I just use PEQ on the combined response) and I don't know which way is better and under what circumstances. I have been fortunate in all of my rooms that the un EQd combined response of all subs as been REASONABLY "flat".
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post #6066 of 9079 Old 01-19-2019, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ksalno View Post
I do my own programming now and will never go back to a proprietary CI-type system where I am dependent on someone else for programming.
What do you use for a control system?
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post #6067 of 9079 Old 01-19-2019, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
What do you use for a control system?
I have Lutron RA2 for lighting and HVAC, Harmony Elite Hubs for 3 AV systems but Simple Control for my Theater, and Home Seer for triggers, sensors, and any integration that one of those won't do by themselves. Will tackle pool and sprinklers this Spring but I didn't have them in Savant either. I haven't installed the Trinnov yet (next month), but Simple Control has the IR commands for that, if there is no IP support.

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post #6068 of 9079 Old 01-19-2019, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
I also want world peace and the Cubs to win three World Series back to back like our Bulls did back in the heyday of Michael Jordan. But I don't expect that from the Altitude . At least for a few software updates. YMMV.

I understand that you want the ultimate homekit control attached to the processor in your HT room. But remember that the Altitude is a pre-amp. There are things we paid for that it does very well, and will continue to hopefully lead the home A/V industry for many years to come - high channel 3D audio codecs, electric/acoustic room EQ, flexibility for speaker configuration, bass management, and arraying, and the like. And of course software updates to improve functionality. I don't expect it to be a facilitator for controlling my shades or lights, let alone telling us when to check the smart refrigerator's ice filter. Something like a Samsung TV or a DSP-based AVR is a mainstream consumer device with an emphasis on convenience, and where they can't compete with a Trinnov, they can offer other reasons for someone to buy their products.

Let Trinnov do what it does well, improve what needs to be improved in hardware (i.e. stabilizing general usage of the new HDMI board), and avoid diverting their finite resources and support capability to satisfy whole home technology needs. There's such a thing as overreach....



Maybe, maybe not. Like all bleeding edge tech, only time will tell if an early adaptor product becomes the standard.
I have followed this close and mass adoption is much more likely than anything that has come before it besides Alexa and google which are of course similar. Almost all the products for home automation that I have now are actually cross compatible with all three of those with the exception of Lurton which also works with c4, creation, et al.

I don’t disagree that a great hdmi board would be priority #1 .

It would be cool if someone would make a home bridge plugin using the Trinnov command framework. Then you would run a raspberry pi to be the intermediary since the altitude is not built to be an always on or “Standy” device. An always on control processor outside the altitude can definitely do the trick if someone would do the programming...

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post #6069 of 9079 Old 01-19-2019, 08:46 PM
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Does anyone know what the thread size is on the altitude’s calibration microphone? I need a boom so I can get the mic over my couches while also being flat at the same time. Getting the mic setup is very onerous and inaccurate without the right stand. They should really just sell a stand that goes with it ... any suggestions on what I should buy? An amazon link perhaps?

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post #6070 of 9079 Old 01-19-2019, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post
Does anyone know what the thread size is on the altitude’s calibration microphone? I need a boom so I can get the mic over my couches while also being flat at the same time. Getting the mic setup is very onerous and inaccurate without the right stand. They should really just sell a stand that goes with it ... any suggestions on what I should buy? An amazon link perhaps?
Quote:
Does anyone know what the thread size is on the altitude’s calibration microphone?
That's a good question. I recall facing the same problem when I bought my Trinnov and wanted to use a camera tripod. I can't recall if the thread is metric or simply an odd size. I ended up buying an adapter from Amazon that worked. I will see if I can find the order information.
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post #6071 of 9079 Old 01-20-2019, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Perfectionist2 View Post
That's a good question. I recall facing the same problem when I bought my Trinnov and wanted to use a camera tripod. I can't recall if the thread is metric or simply an odd size. I ended up buying an adapter from Amazon that worked. I will see if I can find the order information.
yeah I'm pretty sure the adapter is metric. Between that and getting the adapter to connect to my boom, I'm a bit clueless as to the standard sizes for these fittings.

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post #6072 of 9079 Old 01-20-2019, 07:26 AM
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I got my bar table in to cover my near field speakers, so onward onto getting the fixes to my subwoofer EQ.

When I completed a trial run of the eq this morning, the system did my 4 subs individually but then the summed response was around 20db too high by measurement in REW. Since my subs are crossed over high (110hz) on the front, I can't simply turn down the volume or use the stacked sub correction to get things right.

I just bit the bullet and bought a Mini-DSP. I ordered the high end one with the built-in XLR outputs (x4). Hopefully I have better luck compared to the Behringer (as a result of poor electronics, had a buzz out of one of my speakers). Behringer products have quality issues I guess?

I might actually use the Dirac in the new minidsp to see what it does with sub calibration.

I might try the MSO again but I got weak tactile response last time, so that's a maybe. I figure with a MiniDSP, I can at least save a preset on it with an MSO setup and experiment with it again for possibly better results. Being able to A/B an MSO setup compared to a more traditional setup will be revealing, especially since I have a fully near-field setup to take care of tactile effects.

So many permutations to try... good 'ol nerd fun.

Schematic:

Altitude subwoofer output (S1) -> Mini DSP (Delays and PEQ)

Altitude subwoofer output (S2) -> near field modules currently running as one output (might have to run on separate altitude channels to achieve better delay control for MLP if there are audible issues)
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post #6073 of 9079 Old 01-20-2019, 07:40 AM
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I bought two different adapters because my installer was flying in, and I didn't want to be without the use of the tripod.

One of them was a Smallrig 1/4"-20 Female to 3/8"-16 Male Tripod Thread Screw Adapter Brass that I found on Amazon (I hope I can mention the name, as it was only about $5). The problem is that I bought another adapter as well but can't recall if it was a different size or design. Don't remember which one I used. Obviously you need to know the size of the male thread on your tripod. Someone must have told me the female thread on the microphone accepted a 3/8"-16 male thread but this was over 2 years ago and can't recall the details.
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post #6074 of 9079 Old 01-20-2019, 08:10 AM
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WOW. I had never seen photos of your room. Stunning.

And yes, you have LOTS of possible combinations and permutations for extracting the most out of all of your subs. Have fun !!
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post #6075 of 9079 Old 01-20-2019, 12:14 PM
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Blazer, did you order the minidsp SHD unit?

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post #6076 of 9079 Old 01-20-2019, 08:46 PM
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My Trinnov is going to the dogs!

OK. Maybe that is not totally accurate.

I was watching the 4K/HDR/Atmos re-release of the Sylvester Stallone movie, "Cliff Hanger". One of my dogs (a recently adopted 8 year old Golden) was with me. During the early part of the movie, there is a very realistic flyover of a helicopter. So realistic, in fact, that the dog looked up as the copter entered the rear height speaker, her gaze followed to the center height and then to the front height. It was really a classic and too bad I couldn't video it.

Gotta luv my Trinnov (and our dog!)
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post #6077 of 9079 Old 01-21-2019, 04:23 AM
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^^Like this?
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post #6078 of 9079 Old 01-21-2019, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
OK. Maybe that is not totally accurate.

I was watching the 4K/HDR/Atmos re-release of the Sylvester Stallone movie, "Cliff Hanger". One of my dogs (a recently adopted 8 year old Golden) was with me. During the early part of the movie, there is a very realistic flyover of a helicopter. So realistic, in fact, that the dog looked up as the copter entered the rear height speaker, her gaze followed to the center height and then to the front height. It was really a classic and too bad I couldn't video it.

Gotta luv my Trinnov (and our dog!)
LMAO Chuck, thats made my day.

Now instead of the usual quote that most home cinema and hifi owners trot out to justify their upgrades; ". . . even my wife noticed a difference", you'll be able to say ". . . even my dog noticed a difference"!
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post #6079 of 9079 Old 01-22-2019, 04:16 AM
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I am a newbie. I would like to ask whether Altitude 32 owner is able to connect 2 4K displays to HDMI out 1 and HDMI Out 2 and able to play back UHD movies at 3840X2160 BT2020 colourspace video.

My setup is as follow:


Oppo205 - Altitude 32 (HDMI in 5, HDMI out 2 to Sony 760ES PJ and HDMI Out 1 to LG 4K monitor).
Playing a UHD BR disc.

when I connected both Sony 760ES PJ and LG 4K monitor the Video from Sony PJ is only 1980 X 1080 BT709 resolution

When I disconnect the LG4K monitor from HDMI out 1, the Sony PJ is able to play the video at 3840 X 2160 BT2020 resolution.

Does any one else experience the same outcome?

Could it be explained by the fact that as HDMI Out 1 and HDMI Out 2 are mirror ports and HDMI Out 1 support only HDMI 1.4 / HDCP 1.4 and therefore the video on HDMI Out 2 is down scaled to 1980 X 1080 resolution ?

Looking forward to enlightenments.

WiM
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post #6080 of 9079 Old 01-22-2019, 05:43 AM
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Output 2 is the only one that supports 4K/HDR.

I have tried a 1080P display on Output 1 at the same time my 4K display is on Output 1. Even if my 1080 display is not on, but connected, I get no image on my 4K display. I'm sure there must be a way to address that but I'm not sure how. My solution: I only use Output 2 and unplug the display I am not using. The 1080P display is in my equipment room and I only use it when running OmniMic.

I know there is an external box that will fix this (HD Fury) but I have no interest in buying one.
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post #6081 of 9079 Old 01-22-2019, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by wongikmg View Post
I am a newbie. I would like to ask whether Altitude 32 owner is able to connect 2 4K displays to HDMI out 1 and HDMI Out 2 and able to play back UHD movies at 3840X2160 BT2020 colourspace video.
Does any one else experience the same outcome?

WiM
When your Altitude was bought? Do you have the new HDMI board?

HT Gear: Altitude 24/32, Quested Lt8 x 11, Paradigm Sub 1, ATI AT6000 Reference, Anthem Statement P5; HTPC Steiger Dynamics LEET; PJ JVC X9000, PJ Screen: Screen Excellence (Reference); Apple TV 4K
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post #6082 of 9079 Old 01-22-2019, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by wongikmg View Post
I am a newbie. I would like to ask whether Altitude 32 owner is able to connect 2 4K displays to HDMI out 1 and HDMI Out 2 and able to play back UHD movies at 3840X2160 BT2020 colourspace video.

My setup is as follow:

Oppo205 - Altitude 32 (HDMI in 5, HDMI out 2 to Sony 760ES PJ and HDMI Out 1 to LG 4K monitor).
Playing a UHD BR disc.

WiM
Sound quality is slightly better if 205 Oppoś voice only special hdmi out is connected to A32 and picture connected directly to TV hdmi input from main hdmi out.

" jitter reduction benefit depends on whether the decoder design in the audio processor/receiver uses a synchronous or asynchronous clock. Compressed audio decoding requires buffering of the audio data and performing mathematic manipulations. If the decoder uses a synchronous clock design, the decoded data is usually driven out with a clock that is 1x, 2x, or 4x that of the reconstructed audio clock but synchronised to it, so the benefit can carry over. If the decoder uses a completely new, locally generated clock to drive out the decoded data, then jitter reduction on the player side is not a benefit, but the same circuit ensures error-free delivery of the bitstream audio data to the decoder thanks to a very stable HDMI video clock and a constant CTS value. "


But Iḿ rather disappointed with current official A32 firmware because of several old or new movies that have HD sound can not sync properly (example Tarantinoś Kill bill I & II DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1) or there are drop-outs (bluray http://www.2l.no/pages/album/145.html ). My Oppo has latest firmware. Sometimes also the start-up hangs and a power off reset is required with new start.

The latest A32 beta sw revision and hdmi firmware upgrade should be published and delivered ASAP. With top of the line price for A32 Iḿ not fully happy with A32 because of unmature software. Also the documentation pdf available was not up to date and I had to write my own manual for easier setup/calibrate instructions. My A32 SW version is latest official from spring 2018 and have latest hdmi board.

Blame goes aligned with word HDMI, but high price means please deliver frequent official automated updates.




=> hurry up with new software update !
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post #6083 of 9079 Old 01-23-2019, 02:59 AM
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Thanks for all the advises. My Altitude 32 comes with new HDMI board.

I have manage to solve my problem by connecting Oppo 205 to a HD Fury Vertex Splitter /Scaler.

I can display a UHD movies at full 3040 X 2160 /24p Bt2020 resolution through the Sony 760ES and a downscaled 1980X1080 BT709 resolution on a LG HD display.

The only hiccup I encountered is occasionally, the video colourspace on the Sony PJ will change to BT709.

I need to power recycle the Altitude 32 to reset the Sony PJ colourspace back to BT2020. I blame it on HDMI gremlins.

As a newbie I look forward to learning the complicated configuration.

I am now trying to figure out why I cannot generate pink noise to test the speaker channels.
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post #6084 of 9079 Old 01-24-2019, 08:50 AM
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This is the first time I am running HDMI sources directly to the Altitude, prior to this I was running HDMI sources into Lumagen and the just the HDMI audio into the Altitude. My new config has HDMI into Altitude and out to Lumagen. So my question is under source configuration, output selectors I selected Analog + AES 1-8 as prior but the drop down menu has a selection for HDMI, am I correct to assume the HDMI ouputs are active without having to choose them in the drop down?

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post #6085 of 9079 Old 01-24-2019, 11:08 AM
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This is the first time I am running HDMI sources directly to the Altitude, prior to this I was running HDMI sources into Lumagen and the just the HDMI audio into the Altitude. My new config has HDMI into Altitude and out to Lumagen. So my question is under source configuration, output selectors I selected Analog + AES 1-8 as prior but the drop down menu has a selection for HDMI, am I correct to assume the HDMI ouputs are active without having to choose them in the drop down?
Just out of curiosity - what made you decide to have one HDMI cable out of the Altitude (SDP-75) vs. having the HDMI sources go to the Lumagen and then just send HDMI audio to the Altitude in your original setup (which I'm guessing had the original HDMI board as well)? Do you think that there's less issues with HDMI handshake and lip-sync that way than the approach you took previously?

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides/Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, Image B6 screens, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 13.4.6
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post #6086 of 9079 Old 01-24-2019, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Just out of curiosity - what made you decide to have one HDMI cable out of the Altitude (SDP-75) vs. having the HDMI sources go to the Lumagen and then just send HDMI audio to the Altitude in your original setup (which I'm guessing had the original HDMI board as well)? Do you think that there's less issues with HDMI handshake and lip-sync that way than the approach you took previously?
Originally I had the HDMI 1.4 cards installed in the Altitude so I ran 4K HDCP 2.2 sources into Lumagen, and output Audio only from the Lumagen to the Altitude. This was a work around to get all the 3D audio codecs.

I would think Audio sources directly to Altitude/JBL would introduce less HDMI audio jitter than running audio through Lumagen.

My theater has undergone a major renovation and all the equipment was removed and requires to be re-wired so its not that I'm changing an existing setup, I am in essence starting from scratch on a new setup.

Lastly I have many more sources than inputs on the Lumagen, and I have found the switching on the Lumagen is near instant and this is a requirement for my 6 DTV receivers.
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post #6087 of 9079 Old 01-25-2019, 06:25 AM
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Is anyone using the 16 channel digital outputs on their Trinnov?
I'm looking for recommendations on shielded Tascam DB25 X 16 AES /EBU XLR digital cables.
Thanks
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post #6088 of 9079 Old 01-25-2019, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasalle View Post
Is anyone using the 16 channel digital outputs on their Trinnov?
I'm looking for recommendations on shielded Tascam DB25 X 16 AES /EBU XLR digital cables.
Thanks
Several people have used proaudiola.com for cables. They'll build anything you want using high quality cable/connectors, and for a reasonable price.

https://www.proaudiola.com/digital-d...nakes-s/57.htm
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post #6089 of 9079 Old 01-25-2019, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasalle View Post
Is anyone using the 16 channel digital outputs on their Trinnov?
I'm looking for recommendations on shielded Tascam DB25 X 16 AES /EBU XLR digital cables.
Thanks

If you are referring to the AES digital outputs, then I'm a little surprised interference is an issue. I'm using all 16 AES3 Outputs to a 16 channel QSC CIAES-16 card installed in an IO Frame. I'm using this DB25 tascam interface and a pair of regular 3ft CAT6 cables. I have no digital interference due to the very short cable run over Cat6.


Maybe you were actually referring to the DB25 analog outs.

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Last edited by kingwiggi; 01-25-2019 at 07:24 AM.
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post #6090 of 9079 Old 01-25-2019, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingwiggi View Post
If you are referring to the AES digital outputs, then I'm a little surprised interference is an issue. I'm using all 16 AES3 Outputs to a 16 channel QSC CIAES-16 card installed in an IO Frame. I'm using this DB25 tascam interface and a pair of regular 3ft CAT6 cables. I have no digital interference due to the very short cable run over Cat6.


Maybe you were actually referring to the DB25 analog outs.
The digital out is feeding the Alcons Sentinal amps. They use XLR type connectors. The 16 channels span 5 amps (L,C,R bi-amped). Its not clear to me how that would work with Cat6 although they do have network audio RJ-45 connections.
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