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post #6121 of 9455 Old 01-31-2019, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
What was the stated reason for their lack of response?
No reason received yet; but more a sorry for delay and they wanted to call me later today. Don't worry; I will ask

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post #6122 of 9455 Old 01-31-2019, 06:49 AM
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Yeah I wasn't sure what you were doing, sales consultancy, design consultacy, or dealer and integrator.

Need to check the program for monday if it is interesting enough. I believe the DCi summit is on wednesday afternoon, at the Okura. Otherwise I intend to go tuesday-thursday. Not alive enought to do the last day.Try to avoid last day'sof a show as the folks are either left,leaving or preparing to leave. Shows close early on the last day, so better to take the same commute in the first full days.
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post #6123 of 9455 Old 01-31-2019, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
What was the stated reason for their lack of response?
Same here. Received an email from Arnaud Destinay. Apologies etc...No reason given. However he stated that in the last month or so they have increased the number of support staff so should be less delay in communications. The conclusion is that the Forum is working and is attracting attention. Keep up the good work Trinnov
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post #6124 of 9455 Old 02-01-2019, 09:34 AM
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last update from me:

They suspected defect buffer-card in my unit (ref problems with playback of multichannel 176.4/192kHz material); so wanted to take it in and do a full checkup while I have a loaner from my dealer (with all profiles and settings transferred from my unit). So I must say; very happy with the development right now
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HT: Trinnov A32 (AL32-1632)/AMP8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846 - Bose NC 700

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post #6125 of 9455 Old 02-01-2019, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamenoff View Post
Same here. Received an email from Arnaud Destinay. Apologies etc...No reason given. However he stated that in the last month or so they have increased the number of support staff so should be less delay in communications. The conclusion is that the Forum is working and is attracting attention. Keep up the good work Trinnov
One way or another, they seem to be paying attention...certainly different from some of the comments I've read on the Datasat thread over the past year, where it's difficult to reach someone there or a tech support email address bounces back.
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post #6126 of 9455 Old 02-01-2019, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
certainly different from some of the comments I've read on the Datasat thread over the past year, where it's difficult to reach someone there or a tech support email address bounces back.
That is really unfortunate. With no enhancements to that product for a very long time, and from what you saw, poor customer service, it appears that ATI/Datasat is putting the RS20i and LS10 to end of life cycle.

It will be interesting to see how Storm Audio/Bryston does. I will be calibrating one of their processors soon and reading through the manual, it appears to do everything the Datasat will do but with more channels and allows the user to do his/her own calibration . It appears to be a well thought out product. BUT, how will their customer service be?
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post #6127 of 9455 Old 02-01-2019, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
That is really unfortunate. With no enhancements to that product for a very long time, and from what you saw, poor customer service, it appears that ATI/Datasat is putting the RS20i and LS10 to end of life cycle.

It will be interesting to see how Storm Audio/Bryston does. I will be calibrating one of their processors soon and reading through the manual, it appears to do everything the Datasat will do but with more channels and allows the user to do his/her own calibration . It appears to be a well thought out product. BUT, how will their customer service be?
Bryston always had extremely good service on their amplifiers. So there's hope But I would never go Storm Audio instead of Trinnov - Trinnov is the benchmark and will be it seems for a long time.

HT: Trinnov A32 (AL32-1632)/AMP8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846 - Bose NC 700
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post #6128 of 9455 Old 02-01-2019, 11:41 AM
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But I would never go Storm Audio instead of Trinnov - Trinnov is the benchmark and will be it seems for a long time.
I'm not going to Storm but this individual already owns one and wants me to show him how to calibrate it.
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post #6129 of 9455 Old 02-01-2019, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
That is really unfortunate. With no enhancements to that product for a very long time, and from what you saw, poor customer service, it appears that ATI/Datasat is putting the RS20i and LS10 to end of life cycle.

It will be interesting to see how Storm Audio/Bryston does. I will be calibrating one of their processors soon and reading through the manual, it appears to do everything the Datasat will do but with more channels and allows the user to do his/her own calibration . It appears to be a well thought out product. BUT, how will their customer service be?
I wouldn't go so far as to call it a well thought out product, at least not in it's overall architecture. It's internal processing is limited to 48/24 which is pathetic in my opinion for a high end product. I find it unacceptable that on a $10k+ product anyone feeding the unit high res audio has to either run it in bypass (if that's possible I honestly don't know) or accept that their audio stream will be down sampled. Compare that to the Altitude16, Theta CBIVA and LS10 which are thankfully 96/24 internally and of course the Altitude32 which can go up to 192/24. I still haven't received confirmation from Emotiva on what their new unit will run at internally as I was curious considering it'll be the cheapest SSP of the bunch being well under $10k. Another sub $10k unit coming out later this year will be the Monoprice.

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post #6130 of 9455 Old 02-01-2019, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
One way or another, they seem to be paying attention...certainly different from some of the comments I've read on the Datasat thread over the past year, where it's difficult to reach someone there or a tech support email address bounces back.
You should be able to call ATI/Theta Digital/Datasat Tech Support and get taken care of. 323-278-0001 [email protected]

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post #6131 of 9455 Old 02-01-2019, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
Bryston always had extremely good service on their amplifiers. So there's hope But I would never go Storm Audio instead of Trinnov - Trinnov is the benchmark and will be it seems for a long time.
I once owned five Bryston 7B monoblocks and also a BDP-1 music server and their support and service were in my experience as good as it gets - it couldn't get any better!

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post #6132 of 9455 Old 02-01-2019, 08:34 PM
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I wouldn't go so far as to call it a well thought out product, at least not in it's overall architecture. It's internal processing is limited to 48/24 which is pathetic in my opinion for a high end product. I find it unacceptable that on a $10k+ product anyone feeding the unit high res audio has to either run it in bypass (if that's possible I honestly don't know) or accept that their audio stream will be down sampled. Compare that to the Altitude16, Theta CBIVA and LS10 which are thankfully 96/24 internally and of course the Altitude32 which can go up to 192/24. I still haven't received confirmation from Emotiva on what their new unit will run at internally as I was curious considering it'll be the cheapest SSP of the bunch being well under $10k. Another sub $10k unit coming out later this year will be the Monoprice.
i have no clue what their internal processing is. I did a cursory look at the user manual and it appears to have lot of features and flexibility, and therefore the potential, to be an excellent MOVIE surround processor. Nothing more. Numbers are important but what is far more important is what it will do for the audio of current movies. I will know soon enough. And, as of now, I stand by my initial observations. It is a Trinnov? Clearly not but not everyone can afford a Trinnov.
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post #6133 of 9455 Old 02-02-2019, 06:53 AM
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Very true as a movie SSP where the content is probably 99.9% 48/24 (some concerts are 96/24 but they pale in availability vs actual movies) then yeah it's a great feature laden product for sure. Its just that it falls short when you start bringing music into the picture, and of course in particular just high res music.

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Before finalizing my decision to get an Altitude, I checked out the Storm branded (non-Bryston) processors and all internally downsample to 48Khz, being tied to DSP resources. It doesn't matter how many channels, all their models have a maximum 48K sampling.


Back from a trip & over the next few weeks will be working on the next phase of my setup which entails re-doing room measurements and the Optimizer so I can add several new speaker layouts, one with rearward side surrounds and one with front/center Auro height(s). I had the hardware & 12 v switchable setups completed & working right before our trip, now I have to work on the Altitude preset side.

Steve

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post #6135 of 9455 Old 02-03-2019, 01:43 PM
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Back from a trip & over the next few weeks will be working on the next phase of my setup which entails re-doing room measurements and the Optimizer so I can add several new speaker layouts, one with rearward side surrounds and one with front/center Auro height(s). I had the hardware & 12 v switchable setups completed & working right before our trip, now I have to work on the Altitude preset side.
Steve, before you do a new calibration and create new presets, see if your dealer will provide you with the beta SW incorporating the new base preset (FR down to 10Hz, etc.). This would save you from having to re-create those presets once the new SW Rev. is officially released.
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I did finally get my altitude working with a MSO / Mid-bass module setup but I learned a few things while also tweaking some of the settings in the optimizer:

I was recording tracings with REW with changes changes such as FIR minimal frequency and FIR length. I am not 100% what the best practice is for settings these items but the effects can be dramatic and unexpectedly worse such as bloating the bass too much (non-linear frequency response in bass region).

Additionally, bass is definitely also increased in Auro-3d so you have to be careful otherwise in that mode you will wind up with too much bass with no recourse in the auro-3d settings besides creating a different target curve preset.

I always listen in Auro-3D so I calibrated for that for music.

I got the absolute best "automatic" result with around 10 FIR filters (100ms length) between automatic and 150hz. I have no idea what else to try besides trying each permutation and measuring.

Ultimately my final result led to great sound where I did not need to dial in a target curve to get the best result (as far as I can tell).

Problems that I attributed to other issues were actually being "caused" by the optimizer and therefore you pretty much have to measure and listen pre-post changes in order to get a closer idea of what is going on. Based on some of the wildness I witnessed, I would definitely measure after each optimizer adjustment to reach your goal. Due to listener fatigue, I think it is personally hard to do it "by ear".

Oddly, I got the best result also when I set the max gain possible via optimization to 30db. I have a much stranger situation from most people however since my speakers crossover at around 100-120hz.

I am collecting all the data from my MSO tweaking, but I am seeing definitive benefits via the MSO software and MiniDSP SHD.

Blazar!
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post #6137 of 9455 Old 02-04-2019, 06:26 AM
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Before finalizing my decision to get an Altitude, I checked out the Storm branded (non-Bryston) processors and all internally downsample to 48Khz, being tied to DSP resources. It doesn't matter how many channels, all their models have a maximum 48K sampling.
You are a music lover and higher res audio is important to you. If one is just using the processor for movies, 48Khz works. I'm not trying to convince anyone to use this product (I would not for the same reason you would not) but I like the fact that there are now more options for home theater movie folks who want more than 11 speakers, and who want better room correction software. Many of these converts to higher speaker count systems will eventually be potential candidates for a Trinnov since they are the only game in town if one wants the best.

Quote:
Back from a trip & over the next few weeks will be working on the next phase of my setup which entails re-doing room measurements and the Optimizer so I can add several new speaker layouts, one with rearward side surrounds and one with front/center Auro height(s). I had the hardware & 12 v switchable setups completed & working right before our trip, now I have to work on the Altitude preset side.
Given the almost complete unavailability of Auro source material in the US, why the interest in expanding your Auro speaker count? If you are going to use it for up-mixing 2 channel, and given your existing speaker layout, what does it buy you?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
last update from me:

They suspected defect buffer-card in my unit (ref problems with playback of multichannel 176.4/192kHz material); so wanted to take it in and do a full checkup while I have a loaner from my dealer (with all profiles and settings transferred from my unit). So I must say; very happy with the development right now

I wonder if this buffer card problem is what's causing my issues with 176.4/192 kHz files not playing (stereo and multichannel) since day one? My unit should still be under warranty so I would guess I can get it repaired. I would hate to be without it for any length of time.



John

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post #6139 of 9455 Old 02-04-2019, 09:49 AM
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Hi Audioguy

Chuck, you raise valid points. I guess my sole reason for front hts with Auromatic comes down to - they've been on the wall for several yrs not doing anything since the demise of IIz/NeoX and I don't have another use for them Wiring has been in place and while I could sell the speakers, I'd have to cover up the blank spaces with 2 pieces of corner raceway to fill in the gaps.

The same situation is with the rearward side surrounds. They were for a corner-ish position used with legacy quadraphonic LP's through the multichannel analogs on my Pioneer SC-09. The Pioneer developed some kind of glitch during my recent re-calibration in January and they are no longer recognized; what's worse is that its test tones are now dead too. I could try a factory reset but if that failed, I'd have a permanently non-calibrated unit (it works 100% fine except those 2 speakers so trying a reset is a risk I'm not willing to take). So I decided to re-purpose those speakers using the Altitude - beats removing the speaker panels from the walls, patching holes.

It's not about adding for the sake of same but using speakers that are already there but can't use otherwise


RUR (Ken) - I think I have the latest: the RC4 version unless you know of a later beta out there. Thanks for the reminder! It was re-calibrated after getting RC4 but I'll double-check the <20Hz sub curves in the Optimizer to make sure they do extend to 10Hz.

Steve

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post #6140 of 9455 Old 02-04-2019, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demoleon View Post
I wonder if this buffer card problem is what's causing my issues with 176.4/192 kHz files not playing (stereo and multichannel) since day one? My unit should still be under warranty so I would guess I can get it repaired. I would hate to be without it for any length of time.
I will let you know what they conclude on mine. If it is - your dealer could potentially replace the card at your place (or at their place).

Edit:
I'm just waiting for one of my dealers Altitude32s to free up (this or next week).

HT: Trinnov A32 (AL32-1632)/AMP8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846 - Bose NC 700

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post #6141 of 9455 Old 02-07-2019, 08:14 AM
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HDMI Output 2 and HDMI Output 1

My 4K projector is connected to Output 2 and I would like to connect a 1080P TV in my equipment room to Output 1. But if I have them both connected, and am trying to play a DVD Test disc from my Oppo onto the 1080P TV (and even if the 4K PJ is off), it doesn't work - just a message on the TV to check HDMI connections. If I disconnect the HDMI cable to the 4K PJ (Output 1), it works.

Is there some kind of "box" that would allow me to do what I want to do that would sit between Output 2 and the TV - or somewhere else?
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post #6142 of 9455 Old 02-07-2019, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
My 4K projector is connected to Output 2 and I would like to connect a 1080P TV in my equipment room to Output 1. But if I have them both connected, and am trying to play a DVD Test disc from my Oppo onto the 1080P TV (and even if the 4K PJ is off), it doesn't work - just a message on the TV to check HDMI connections. If I disconnect the HDMI cable to the 4K PJ (Output 1), it works.

Is there some kind of "box" that would allow me to do what I want to do that would sit between Output 2 and the TV - or somewhere else?
I have a similar requirement but different result when both Altitude 32 Output 1 and Output 2 are connected.
I need feed UHD output from OPPO to a 4K PJ (Sony 760ES) connected to output 2 and a HD monitor (LG monitor) connected to output 1. Both 4J PJ and HD monitor will display only HD video. When I disconnect the HDMI cable from Output 1, the 4K PJ will display UHD resolution video.
I also perform a test of replacing the HD monitor to a 4K monitor Same result.
Trinnov support confirms that the behaviour (down scale of 4K video to HD resolution on output 2 when both output 1 and output 2 are connected ) is expected.


I solved my problem by connecting OPPO HDMI out to a HD Fury Vertex. Vertex Out 1 (4K port) connect to Trinnov and Out 2 (HD port) connect the HD display. By splitting the video using Vertex and leave the Trinnov HDMI out 1 unconnected, I can display UHD video from Oppo at full UHD resolution through Sony PJ and HD resolution on HD display.

The occasional glitch of using Vertex is at times when playing a UHD/HDR video from oppo the colouspace on the 4K PJ (Sony 760ES) drops to REC 709. I have to reboot the Vertex and Altitude 32 to reset the colouspace to REC 2020. I have not being able find a logical explanation for this issue. Blame it in HDMI handshaking gremlins.
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post #6143 of 9455 Old 02-07-2019, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by wongikmg View Post
I
I solved my problem by connecting OPPO HDMI out to a HD Fury Vertex. Vertex Out 1 (4K port) connect to Trinnov and Out 2 (HD port) connect the HD display. By splitting the video using Vertex and leave the Trinnov HDMI out 1 unconnected, I can display UHD video from Oppo at full UHD resolution through Sony PJ and HD resolution on HD display.

The occasional glitch of using Vertex is at times when playing a UHD/HDR video from oppo the colouspace on the 4K PJ (Sony 760ES) drops to REC 709. I have to reboot the Vertex and Altitude 32 to reset the colouspace to REC 2020. I have not being able find a logical explanation for this issue. Blame it in HDMI handshaking gremlins.
The HD Fury Vertex or the HD Fury Integral 2 are apparently the "go to" products. (I have the Integral 1). I was planning on having the Fury connected to the Trinnov Output 2 but I like your idea better.

I am investigating one other solution and then will make a choice. It is not a catastrophe now since I only use one or the other so just unplug one from Output 2 and plug in the other.

Thanks for your recommendation.
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post #6144 of 9455 Old 02-07-2019, 04:42 PM
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Chuck, I had a similar problem in room. I think it is either an HDMI and/or EDID issue. The projector obviously cannot be an endpoint for audio. I'm using an Atlona. Once we picked the right EDID settings everything works like a charm.
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post #6145 of 9455 Old 02-08-2019, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
My 4K projector is connected to Output 2 and I would like to connect a 1080P TV in my equipment room to Output 1. But if I have them both connected, and am trying to play a DVD Test disc from my Oppo onto the 1080P TV (and even if the 4K PJ is off), it doesn't work - just a message on the TV to check HDMI connections. If I disconnect the HDMI cable to the 4K PJ (Output 1), it works.

Is there some kind of "box" that would allow me to do what I want to do that would sit between Output 2 and the TV - or somewhere else?
If you want to use your 1080p displays, you can set your Oppo to 1080p.
If you want to use your 4k display, set your Oppo to UHD.

It's a work around.
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post #6146 of 9455 Old 02-09-2019, 06:59 AM
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If you want to use your 1080p displays, you can set your Oppo to 1080p.
If you want to use your 4k display, set your Oppo to UHD.

It's a work around.
Thanks for your suggestion.

In order to change the Oppo settings, I need to have a display on (unless you know some short cut) -- so, if I don't know how the Oppo is set, the only way I would be able to change the Oppo from one to the other would be to turn on one or the other displays until I could get an image.. For example, if the Oppo is set at 4K, and I want to use the 1080P display, I would need to turn on the 4K PJ to change it to 1080P. Then turn on the 1080P display and turn off the 4K display. That would be very counter productive. The entire reason for my original question is so I would not have to do that. Today, if I want to use the 1080P display, I unplugged the 4K display from Output 2 and plug in the 180P display. That is my workaround. I want a method where that is not necessary.

There are at least two products, both from HD Fury that accomplish what I want. And I am pretty sure, after some initial research, that there are some intelligent HDMI switchers that will provide that function as well.
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post #6147 of 9455 Old 02-09-2019, 06:39 PM
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I wouldn't go so far as to call it a well thought out product, at least not in it's overall architecture. It's internal processing is limited to 48/24 which is pathetic in my opinion for a high end product. I find it unacceptable that on a $10k+ product anyone feeding the unit high res audio has to either run it in bypass (if that's possible I honestly don't know) or accept that their audio stream will be down sampled. Compare that to the Altitude16, Theta CBIVA and LS10 which are thankfully 96/24 internally and of course the Altitude32 which can go up to 192/24. I still haven't received confirmation from Emotiva on what their new unit will run at internally as I was curious considering it'll be the cheapest SSP of the bunch being well under $10k. Another sub $10k unit coming out later this year will be the Monoprice.
Lyngdorf MP-50/McIntosh MX160 also doesn't downsample and RP operates on all channels up to 384kHz/32bit.

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post #6148 of 9455 Old 02-09-2019, 08:53 PM
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Lyngdorf MP-50/McIntosh MX160 also doesn't downsample and RP operates on all channels up to 384kHz/32bit.
AFAIK, 384kHz/32 I/O with no SRC would require 4x the processing power necessary for 192kHz. Can you point us to the Lyngdorf literature claiming this, Ducky?
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post #6149 of 9455 Old 02-09-2019, 09:26 PM
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AFAIK, 384kHz/32 I/O with no SRC would require 4x the processing power necessary for 192kHz. Can you point us to the Lyngdorf literature claiming this, Ducky?
Info from Lyngdorf.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post54557854

It has 8 DSPs, which I'm sure helps.

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post #6150 of 9455 Old 02-10-2019, 06:33 AM
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...There are at least two products, both from HD Fury that accomplish what I want.
I had the Fury Vertex on my short list just in case I had issues with the Oppo's through the Marantz or Altitude but as it turned out didn't need.

What I do have an issue with is similar to your situation with both 4K & 1080p at same time. I use a decent HDMI splitter on the Motorola Comcast tuner-dvr going to both the Sony 4K OLED and 1080p Pioneer Kuro plasma. Both work but I get intermittent handshake issues every 5 minutes or so on the Pioneer - goes black for ~10 sec at a time. I read the Sony implementation of HDCP 2.2 is particularly aggressive or play nice with 1080p; if I disconnect the Sony from the splitter, Pioneer handshake is flawless.

So the Vertex is still on my to-buy list once I get sufficiently motivated to finally resolve the issue.

Steve
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