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post #6211 of 9455 Old 02-20-2019, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
In the future I would not be surprised if movies are delivered to consumers with 96/24 instead of 48/24 like now. With HDMI 2.1 the sky is the limit
You are an optimist (but I hope correct). Movie streaming is taking over the world (at least in the US) and they are all about audio and video compression. And in my crystal ball, I see the issuance of shiny discs getting smaller. That would not portend well for higher bit rates!
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post #6212 of 9455 Old 02-20-2019, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
The Altitude32 support 192/24 up to 24 channels, playback of anything about 24 channels makes the maximum 96/24. This is of course connected to processing power - and with a new CPU this limit could increase is my guess. By the way - I have only ever needed 192/24 for 2.0, 2.2 and 5.1 playback.

In the future I would not be surprised if movies are delivered to consumers with 96/24 instead of 48/24 like now. With HDMI 2.1 the sky is the limit
It would be nice if movies are delivered to consumers with 96k but most unlikely because the recording equipment out there is 99% 48k. A few exceptions - The Police Certifiable; Samsara; Baraka; and some AIX concert discs; probably a few other at most. At some point when the recording equipment becomes obsolete and is replaced then there's more hope for 96k.

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post #6213 of 9455 Old 02-20-2019, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post
That was quite the experiment I guess with respect to 192/24 it's only music that's offered at that high of resolution so I suspect all offerings would probably only be 2 channel anyways?? Thus only being able to offer 2 channels would be all that's needed I suppose and correct me if I'm wrong even the A32 doesn't upsample, it's plays back what is input up to 192/24 so the offerings would be limited I suppose. Off the top of my head I can't think of anything that would be 5.1 at 192/24 but perhaps there is some classical music out there. I'm not even sure if DVD-A was spec'd at 5 channel 192/24, wasn't it 5 channels at 96/24 and 2 channels at 192/24 or something to that effect?? So that would leave PCM, dts-HD MA and Dolby True HD off of Blu-rays only capable of the higher resolutions in 5.1/7.1.
There's a lot of SACDs and DSD downloads out there which are not only hi rez stereo but many also multi-channel.

2L out of Norway for pure audio blu ray discs and downloads. www.2l.no

www.nativedsd.com for stereo and multi-channel DSD downloads as well as PCM resolutions up to 192k and 352k (DSD).

Lots of stuff out there. Plus with free software you can rip stereo and multi-channel SACDs with certain blu rays players such as Oppo 203/205. https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/t...-yes-its-true/

I have over 800 multi-channel DSD/dsf recordings most of the ripped from SACD. DVD-Audio was speced up to 192k,as I have some DVD-Audio discs which I ripped which were 192k multi-channel and stereo such as Neil Young's Harvest.

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Last edited by Steve Bruzonsky; 02-20-2019 at 10:41 AM.
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post #6214 of 9455 Old 02-20-2019, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
There's a lot of SACDs and DSD downloads out there which are not only hi rez stereo but many also multi-channel.

2L out of Norway for pure audio blu ray discs and downloads. www.2l.no

www.nativedsd.com for stereo and multi-channel DSD downloads as well as PCM resolutions up to 192k and 352k (DSD).

Lots of stuff out there. Plus with free software (search at AudiophileStyle forum - formerly ComputerAudiophile) you can rip stereo and multi-channel SACDs. I have over 800 multi-channel DSD/dsf recordings most of the ripped from SACD. DVD-Audio was speced up to 192k,as I have some DVD-Audio discs which I ripped which were 192k multi-channel and stereo such as Neil Young's Harvest.
@Steve Bruzonsky What software did you use to rip your DVD-A discs? And I assume Roon will play them? I don't have that many (maybe a few dozen) but they are the only music discs I have yet to rip.
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post #6215 of 9455 Old 02-20-2019, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
@Steve Bruzonsky What software did you use to rip your DVD-A discs? And I assume Roon will play them? I don't have that many (maybe a few dozen) but they are the only music discs I have yet to rip.
DVD Audio Extractor: http://dvdae.com/ for DVD-Audio ripping

I have even ripped the audio hi res from blu rays and pure audio blu rays using:

https://www.redfox.bz/en/anydvdhd.html (in order to get by the blu ray copy protection) and DVD Audio Extractor
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post #6216 of 9455 Old 02-20-2019, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
DVD Audio Extractor: http://dvdae.com/ for DVD-Audio ripping
+1 to this

Quote:
I have even ripped the audio hi res from blu rays and pure audio blu rays using:

https://www.redfox.bz/en/anydvdhd.html (in order to get by the blu ray copy protection) and DVD Audio Extractor
So, you're able to rip a concert BD and then, using DVDAE obtain discrete music-only files in .wav or .flac, etc?

I'm brand new to ripping BD concerts and so far have used only makemkv, which results in a single .mkv file containing multiple songs and the corresponding video. I'd like to end up with multiple discrete song files in .wav, if possible. Don't care about the video.
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post #6217 of 9455 Old 02-20-2019, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
DVD Audio Extractor: http://dvdae.com/ for DVD-Audio ripping

I have even ripped the audio hi res from blu rays and pure audio blu rays using:

https://www.redfox.bz/en/anydvdhd.html (in order to get by the blu ray copy protection) and DVD Audio Extractor
Thanks. I ripped one disc using dvd-ae but I must have done something wrong as Roon can't seem to find it. Since this was by a specific artist (Pink Floyd), I placed the music file (DVD-A Dark Side of the Moon) into that artist's folder. See below:



Any ideas of what I might have done incorrectly. And I did ask Roon to rescan.
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post #6218 of 9455 Old 02-20-2019, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Thanks. I ripped one disc using dvd-ae but I must have done something wrong as Roon can't seem to find it. Since this was by a specific artist (Pink Floyd), I placed the music file (DVD-A Dark Side of the Moon) into that artist's folder. See below:



Any ideas of what I might have done incorrectly. And I did ask Roon to rescan.
Yes. Give me a call. I'll AVS PM you with my phone #. I play everything using ROON no problem!

I think the issue is how you setup DVD Audio Extractor for the surround rip. Unless the program shows the rip is in LPCM (where you can rip to FLAC as I do or I guess WAV), you need to set DVDAE in the menu to rip not to FLAC or WAV but to directstream demux (or something like that). Then as I have JRiver MC on my PC, too, I use JRiver to convert the surround ripped files to FLAC. Of course there are other programs that do this, too. E.G., I rip a SACD via my Oppo 205 and I get one ISO file. I load the ISO file into JRiver, out come the separate tracks, I may have to number and label the tracks and insert other info, and then I use JRiver to convert to FLAC (or WAV).

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Last edited by Steve Bruzonsky; 02-20-2019 at 06:09 PM.
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post #6219 of 9455 Old 02-20-2019, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by RUR View Post
+1 to this


So, you're able to rip a concert BD and then, using DVDAE obtain discrete music-only files in .wav or .flac, etc?

I'm brand new to ripping BD concerts and so far have used only makemkv, which results in a single .mkv file containing multiple songs and the corresponding video. I'd like to end up with multiple discrete song files in .wav, if possible. Don't care about the video.
YES YES YES I only rip the audio, not the video, to get the blu ray music tracks!
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post #6220 of 9455 Old 02-20-2019, 01:12 PM
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I have issues with multichannel 176.4 and 192kHz as well on my unit. My dealer is showing up with a loaner A32 within the next couple of days, and sending mine back to Trinnov in Paris. I will let the good people here know what the outcome will be.

Edit:
Its a 32 channel A32 loaner
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post #6221 of 9455 Old 02-20-2019, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rur View Post
+1 to this


so, you're able to rip a concert bd and then, using dvdae obtain discrete music-only files in .wav or .flac, etc?

I'd like to end up with multiple discrete song files in .wav, if possible. Don't care about the video.
yes

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post #6222 of 9455 Old 02-20-2019, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by demoleon View Post
I do have a 192kHz/24 bit 5.1 download of Schumann's Symphonies by Michael Tilson Thomas and the San Francisco Symphony. Sadly my Altitude 32 cannot play anything above 96 kHz (stereo or multichannel). I paid the extra money for the A32 so I could play my (admittedly small) collection of 176.4 and 192 kHz recordings at full resolution. And I see that Qobuz has streaming at higher than 96 if I want to pay for it. But there's no point since they won't play on my unit. I'm still kind of ticked off about this and haven't really heard anything from Trinnov after repeatedly letting them know. I fell kind of gypped.



John
Same problems with my Altitude 32. I asked Trinnov about this last fall and received the following reply:

The incoming clock (data rate) is locked onto automatically. There is no setting you need to make. In the Altitude16, we reserve the right to downsample (internally) 192 to 96, or 176.4 to 88.2 for processing efficiency.

" . . . if the hi-rez material is coming in via either Network or Roon, there is an internal routing issue that precludes using the upmixers. This is being addressed in the next software update expected relatively soon. . ."
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post #6223 of 9455 Old 02-21-2019, 05:11 AM
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I see over the past few posts from Steve, etc. that there is multi-channel content available in 192/24 which is cool to see.

I know HDTracks actually offer 2 channels resolutions on some titles up to 352/24.

I also rip my DVD-A content via DVD-AE and for pulling the audio from BDA discs I use a combination of MakeMKV and Music Media Helper.

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post #6224 of 9455 Old 02-22-2019, 09:57 PM
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Trinnov 32

Anyone getting speakers popping when playing Roon Radio on Alt32? Also, 192/24 skipping track
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post #6225 of 9455 Old 02-25-2019, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papouche Le Mec View Post
Anyone getting speakers popping when playing Roon Radio on Alt32? Also, 192/24 skipping track
What do you mean by speaker popping? If next track is in other format (frequency) than previous one - you will get a physical pop from the Altitude32 when it switches to the other clock (this is normal), but there should be no "pop" in speakers.

You could try to add a resync delay in your Roon for the Altitude32 device; try 500ms and see if your world is a better place.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
What do you mean by speaker popping? If next track is in other format (frequency) than previous one - you will get a physical pop from the Altitude32 when it switches to the other clock (this is normal), but there should be no "pop" in speakers.

You could try to add a resync delay in your Roon for the Altitude32 device; try 500ms and see if your world is a better place.
Berland, it sounds like the same sound as if you take a 9v battery to the speaker and it's louder. It only happens when Roon' Radio goes from 44.1/16 to an higher rate. If the next song is 44.1/16 no pops
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post #6227 of 9455 Old 02-25-2019, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papouche Le Mec View Post
Berland, it sounds like the same sound as if you take a 9v battery to the speaker and it's louder. It only happens when Roon' Radio goes from 44.1/16 to an higher rate. If the next song is 44.1/16 no pops
If this only happens with Roon radio, it sounds like a Roon radio thing. I have tried the same here without hearing anything.
If you are able to reproduce it by playing 44.1/16 and switching to a 96/24 (or other higher bitrate), then it might be an Altitude issue. No such issue on mine (I have tried 2 different Altitude32s).
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I have a simple question:

If I turn the whole Optimizer off on a 2 ch analog input, will that bypass the ADC's? I'd like one analog input to be a pure analog bypass (pure direct in CE terminology) with no processing and no conversion, such that the Altitude is acting as a simple analog preamp for that input. Possible? And are there other settings that will need to be changed?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
I have a simple question:

If I turn the whole Optimizer off on a 2 ch analog input, will that bypass the ADC's? I'd like one analog input to be a pure analog bypass (pure direct in CE terminology) with no processing and no conversion, such that the Altitude is acting as a simple analog preamp for that input. Possible? And are there other settings that will need to be changed?
I don’t think that’s possible unless there is some sort of direct pass through, as the Altitudes volume control is digital not analog.
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post #6230 of 9455 Old 02-26-2019, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
I have a simple question:

If I turn the whole Optimizer off on a 2 ch analog input, will that bypass the ADC's? I'd like one analog input to be a pure analog bypass (pure direct in CE terminology) with no processing and no conversion, such that the Altitude is acting as a simple analog preamp for that input. Possible? And are there other settings that will need to be changed?
I'm not 100% positive (but close) and I don't think there is any kind of pure analog path through a Trinnov.
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post #6231 of 9455 Old 02-26-2019, 02:49 PM
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OK, thanks guys. Thought I'd ask. I had something in mind & the extra ADA conversion isn't a killer.

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post #6232 of 9455 Old 02-26-2019, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
I have a simple question:

If I turn the whole Optimizer off on a 2 ch analog input, will that bypass the ADC's? I'd like one analog input to be a pure analog bypass (pure direct in CE terminology) with no processing and no conversion, such that the Altitude is acting as a simple analog preamp for that input. Possible? And are there other settings that will need to be changed?
I'm also 99.99% sure analog passthrough is not a possibility. But what are you planning to connect here ?

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post #6233 of 9455 Old 02-27-2019, 06:47 PM
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Hello everyone. I just purchased an Altitude 16 to replace my previous processor (Denon AVP). The (upgraded) AVP still sounds and works great but had no path for 4K and new decoder support. I intend to pair the Trinnov with my My Denon POA power amplifier. This amp has 10 channels but a channel pair can be configured to take 1 analog speaker input and (with a switch setting) can be configured to bi-amp a speaker. I do this now for my LF, RF and C speakers. I believe that I can configure the Trinnov to bi-amp to two separate analog speaker outputs which would mean I could just use the normal single channel amplification setting on my power amplifier. Which configuration would be best for sound quality? What crossover frequency would you recommend for Paradigm Signature S8 speakers?


And advice or guidance on this topic or set up would be much appreciated. Thanks.

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post #6234 of 9455 Old 02-27-2019, 08:32 PM
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Hello everyone. I just purchased an Altitude 16 to replace my previous processor (Denon AVP). The (upgraded) AVP still sounds and works great but had no path for 4K and new decoder support. I intend to pair the Trinnov with my My Denon POA power amplifier. This amp has 10 channels but a channel pair can be configured to take 1 analog speaker input and (with a switch setting) can be configured to bi-amp a speaker. I do this now for my LF, RF and C speakers. I believe that I can configure the Trinnov to bi-amp to two separate analog speaker outputs which would mean I could just use the normal single channel amplification setting on my power amplifier. Which configuration would be best for sound quality? What crossover frequency would you recommend for Paradigm Signature S8 speakers?


And advice or guidance on this topic or set up would be much appreciated. Thanks.
The use of an external measurement system (REW or OmniMic) will be the proper tool to tell you the crossover frequency (along with knowing the power handling of the speakers).

So if you b-amp your LCRs, you will then have 10 channels remaining. Then you remove one for your subs and you are down to 9 channels. I would then recommend a 5.x.4 configuration. Top middles will buy you a lot more than rear surrounds.
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post #6235 of 9455 Old 02-27-2019, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
The use of an external measurement system (REW or OmniMic) will be the proper tool to tell you the crossover frequency (along with knowing the power handling of the speakers).

So if you b-amp your LCRs, you will then have 10 channels remaining. Then you remove one for your subs and you are down to 9 channels. I would then recommend a 5.x.4 configuration. Top middles will buy you a lot more than rear surrounds.



Sorry - I am a bit new to this. I have plenty of analog speaker outputs on the Altitude (6 for bi-amp LCRs, 2 Height, 2 Surround, 1 Sub, 5 remaining) and enough inputs on the power amp to allow it to bi-amp the LCR speakers (and only use 3 outputs on the Altitude). I was mostly asking what is "technically" more sound - bi-amp at the AVP or bi-amp at the POA?


Thanks.

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post #6236 of 9455 Old 02-28-2019, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jbuccino View Post
Sorry - I am a bit new to this. I have plenty of analog speaker outputs on the Altitude (6 for bi-amp LCRs, 2 Height, 2 Surround, 1 Sub, 5 remaining) and enough inputs on the power amp to allow it to bi-amp the LCR speakers (and only use 3 outputs on the Altitude). I was mostly asking what is "technically" more sound - bi-amp at the AVP or bi-amp at the POA?


Thanks.
Definitely use the Trinnov to act as electronic crossover, otherwise your amp is wasting power simply sending two full range signals to each speaker terminal pair. The Altitude has a pretty comprehensive system for optimising crossovers in multiway systems - I've not done it myself, but I've seen it demonstrated, and it was largely automated.

Your Denon POA amp is bridgeable, so you might get more benefit out of running a single speaker connection from the bridged amp output to give your speaker more dynamic headroom (300W to your speaker @ 8 ohms bridged, versus 150W @ 8 ohms standard). Then at least you will free up channels on the Altitude for more speakers!
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post #6237 of 9455 Old 02-28-2019, 05:12 AM
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I'm also 99.99% sure analog passthrough is not a possibility. But what are you planning to connect here ?

Possibly connecting an external 2ch DSD DAC to it, either the internal one in the Oppo 205 or a standalone box. Last week I took delivery of a Small Green Computer roon server (i5 cdr) so will be using the Altitude's built-in Roon feature but also wanted to see how an external DAC could be used if I was so inclined.

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post #6238 of 9455 Old 02-28-2019, 05:17 AM
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Possibly connecting an external 2ch DSD DAC to it. Something I've been thinking about.
I'm confused. An external DAC will want to see digital input so why the interest in analog pass through? Also, I don't think the Trinnov can pass DSD?
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post #6239 of 9455 Old 02-28-2019, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Definitely use the Trinnov to act as electronic crossover, otherwise your amp is wasting power simply sending two full range signals to each speaker terminal pair. The Altitude has a pretty comprehensive system for optimising crossovers in multiway systems - I've not done it myself, but I've seen it demonstrated, and it was largely automated.

Your Denon POA amp is bridgeable, so you might get more benefit out of running a single speaker connection from the bridged amp output to give your speaker more dynamic headroom (300W to your speaker @ 8 ohms bridged, versus 150W @ 8 ohms standard). Then at least you will free up channels on the Altitude for more speakers!

Interesting. Thanks. I have never used the bridged amp function of the POA as I always believed that bi-amping was superior. Am I wrong here? Can anyone assist with an explanation of the benefits and use cases for bridging over bi-amping?

Trinnov Altitude 16, Denon POA-A1, Harmony Elite
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post #6240 of 9455 Old 02-28-2019, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I'm confused

I guess, so am I Being new to computer-based audio, I'm still figuring out what I might need and what I don't need. I was thinking of the Oppo 205's USB-DAC input (one of its premium features over the 203) and not let it go unused but with the roon server, it doesn't seem it'll be needed No problem.

But the question has validity, thinking of those of you with Alt32's multichannel inputs or even a pure 2ch analog source with either model. Do you mind that there's extra A-D-A conversion?

Steve

Last edited by ss9001; 02-28-2019 at 07:33 AM.
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