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post #6691 of 9230 Old 03-25-2019, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
^^
Glad they were able to help! Time to sit back & enjoy

Thanks. It is the nature of forums like this that the majority of posts are individual or shared issues. But make no mistake - this ALT16 unit is a pleasure to own and a great upgrade both visually and sonically from my old processor. And I had a great one.

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post #6692 of 9230 Old 03-25-2019, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
After trying hundreds of prepros/receivers, it's just a matter of time, you're 100% going to end up with a Trinnov
Money notwithstanding, I agree 100%.

Mark 10:45 ][Home Theater of The Month: The Oconee Theater][ Music by Leslie Austin on Spotify ][
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post #6693 of 9230 Old 03-25-2019, 02:41 PM
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I think it’s great that we’ve had a flood of new interest from prospective buyers the last couple of weeks. It’s good for this forum and for the future of Trinnov.


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post #6694 of 9230 Old 03-25-2019, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by kingwiggi View Post
I think it’s great that we’ve had a flood of new interest from prospective buyers the last couple of weeks. It’s good for this forum and for the future of Trinnov.


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i've said this before....but as one of the original Altitude buyers (and before that, being here in the very beginning of the Altitude announcement), it's rewarding to see less domination of the thread by high-level concepts from an integrator promoting their business and integration skills, and as time has went by, more practical questions about the capabilities of the Altitude from users. I used to hear that Trinnov owners were so happy that they just didn't post about anything once they got their room set up and calibrated, so it's nice to see more of a range of folks here.

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post #6695 of 9230 Old 03-25-2019, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Holy Grail View Post
If I were you, I'dd add Alcons and Meyer Sound to that list.

My own shopping list for LCR speakers consists of:

- JBL M2
- Wisdom L100 or Cinema Line 3
- Meyer Sound (Bluehorn or Acheron)
- Alcons CRMS MkII

All of them play in a higher league compared to Procella, IMHO.
I'd also add JBL 708s and Revel Salons to the list, if you count the SDP-75 (or don't care about anechoic chamber adjustment and want remapping instead with the Altitude).

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides/Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, Image B6 screens, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 13.4.6
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post #6696 of 9230 Old 03-25-2019, 03:32 PM
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In my opinion the 2D/3D remapping is one of the key features of Trinnov (even for stereo). Only not needed if you have a perfectly symmetric rectangular room (a door on one side will kill this perfect symmetry). Again, I have never ever seen such a room - only close to.

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post #6697 of 9230 Old 03-25-2019, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
In my opinion the 2D/3D remapping is one of the key features of Trinnov (even for stereo). Only not needed if you have a perfectly symmetric rectangular room (a door on one side will kill this perfect symmetry). Again, I have never ever seen such a room - only close to.
Speaking just for myself (I mean, who else am I speaking for? ) , I see it this way. If you don't have speakers at spot-on angles both physically and electronically, the minimal advantage of remapping is that you're adjusting horizontal (azimuth) and vertical (elevation) positioning for what would be the ideal. In that sense, minor distortions due to room effects and random variation can be be accounted for in the remapping algorithm. Also, as someone that builds statistical models professionally, I like the idea of having a model predict reality when you've got something less than a perfect fit, and something more than having serious placement issues. Plus in theory, using two or more data points, no matter how subtly, to capture the ideal prediction of one data point inside, say, LCR or between a height and a floor layer on the same vertical plane is an advantage. Assuming it works .

My own rule of thumb is that you want to stay within the tolerances of your specs of choices (i.e. Dolby Atmos, SMPTE etc.) and if you're within that range, remapping is icing on the cake. Also if you want to do something like avoid focus point effects of speakers at a straight 90 degrees to a row of MLP. With front Ls1/Rs1 and bed side surrounds (or bed and Ls2/Rs2 sides), remapping can solve that issue for you if the phantom image from the remapping is stable for the critical seats (ideally the listening box).

Where this falls apart is if you're too far off angle - think rears at 170 and side surrounds at 90 - or in a multirow room where remapping might produce distortions and hot spots. Or if you get weird effects like mains getting mapped into height speakers.

What it seems to me is that some old school Trinnov users like me, or some folks that came from the older MC or Magnitude units (not Rur from waht I know in his two channel+subs setup, but at least a couple of others) tend to use it more than some of the mass of later adopters with large, more sophisticated personal cinema-type configurations. That may be a case where manual adjustment with something like a Q-Sys Core and what Adam does for his clients may be a good thing over the automated algorithm, and Curt Hoyt did a setup for me with custom array tuning and upmixers that wasn't intended for using remapping. I have heard from multiple calibrators I've talked to that they're trying to avoid using it when possible, for what it's worth.

Basically I think it comes down to try it for yourself. You may be pleasantly surprised. Or not.

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides/Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, Image B6 screens, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 13.4.6
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post #6698 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
After trying hundreds of prepros/receivers, it's just a matter of time, you're 100% going to end up with a Trinnov




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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Money notwithstanding, I agree 100%.

I've been eyeing it, tbh. Just seems overkill for my setup....though then again, so is the bryston/storm unit.
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post #6699 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 06:40 AM
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I've been eyeing it, tbh. Just seems overkill for my setup....though then again, so is the bryston/storm unit.
I don't know your setup but even assuming it consists of reasonably good speakers in a reasonably good room placed in reasonable locations, it is not overkill (again, money notwithstanding). It will allow you to extract the very best out of what you do have and then, as the addiction interest in the hobby increases, and you make other upgrades, it will only get better.

Mark 10:45 ][Home Theater of The Month: The Oconee Theater][ Music by Leslie Austin on Spotify ][
Isaiah 54:10
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post #6700 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Speaking just for myself (I mean, who else am I speaking for? ) , I see it this way. If you don't have speakers at spot-on angles both physically and electronically, the minimal advantage of remapping is that you're adjusting horizontal (azimuth) and vertical (elevation) positioning for what would be the ideal. In that sense, minor distortions due to room effects and random variation can be be accounted for in the remapping algorithm. Also, as someone that builds statistical models professionally, I like the idea of having a model predict reality when you've got something less than a perfect fit, and something more than having serious placement issues. Plus in theory, using two or more data points, no matter how subtly, to capture the ideal prediction of one data point inside, say, LCR or between a height and a floor layer on the same vertical plane is an advantage. Assuming it works .



My own rule of thumb is that you want to stay within the tolerances of your specs of choices (i.e. Dolby Atmos, SMPTE etc.) and if you're within that range, remapping is icing on the cake. Also if you want to do something like avoid focus point effects of speakers at a straight 90 degrees to a row of MLP. With front Ls1/Rs1 and bed side surrounds (or bed and Ls2/Rs2 sides), remapping can solve that issue for you if the phantom image from the remapping is stable for the critical seats (ideally the listening box).



Where this falls apart is if you're too far off angle - think rears at 170 and side surrounds at 90 - or in a multirow room where remapping might produce distortions and hot spots. Or if you get weird effects like mains getting mapped into height speakers.



What it seems to me is that some old school Trinnov users like me, or some folks that came from the older MC or Magnitude units (not Rur from waht I know in his two channel+subs setup, but at least a couple of others) tend to use it more than some of the mass of later adopters with large, more sophisticated personal cinema-type configurations. That may be a case where manual adjustment with something like a Q-Sys Core and what Adam does for his clients may be a good thing over the automated algorithm, and Curt Hoyt did a setup for me with custom array tuning and upmixers that wasn't intended for using remapping. I have heard from multiple calibrators I've talked to that they're trying to avoid using it when possible, for what it's worth.



Basically I think it comes down to try it for yourself. You may be pleasantly surprised. Or not.


Are side surrounds at 90 degrees to the MLP not recommended? I find that I like my surround speakers at 90 degrees (MLP in front row) otherwise it can feel as though much of the surround bubble is behind me with two rows of seating, six atmos ceiling speakers and rears. I don’t use wides but I can install as I have prewired for it and I have extra amplification that I am not using.


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Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1
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post #6701 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 07:24 AM
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Will the Trinnov use wides to more smoothly pan sounds from front LCR to surrounds even if the mix does not utilize wides?


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7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5/P5 in-wall
Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420
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post #6702 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I don't know your setup but even assuming it consists of reasonably good speakers in a reasonably good room placed in reasonable locations, it is not overkill (again, money notwithstanding). It will allow you to extract the very best out of what you do have and then, as the addiction interest in the hobby increases, and you make other upgrades, it will only get better.

Its all relative, but I'd characterize it as modest: My room
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post #6703 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
In my opinion the 2D/3D remapping is one of the key features of Trinnov (even for stereo). Only not needed if you have a perfectly symmetric rectangular room (a door on one side will kill this perfect symmetry). Again, I have never ever seen such a room - only close to.

For us newcomers to the Trinnov family, can you give a brief summary of how to enable the 2D/3D remapping? I have already configured and calibrated (multiple points) my DTS:X system (5.1.2 - 5.1 + Lh, Rh). Is it as simple as experimenting with the options using the "Remapping" menu on the "Optimizer and Remapping" page or are there other things I have to consider? Is there anything else I can experiment with? Thanks.

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post #6704 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 07:52 AM
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Are side surrounds at 90 degrees to the MLP not recommended? I find that I like my surround speakers at 90 degrees (MLP in front row) otherwise it can feel as though much of the surround bubble is behind me with two rows of seating, six atmos ceiling speakers and rears. I don’t use wides but I can install as I have prewired for it and I have extra amplification that I am not using.


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Dolby spec for sides is 90-110, of course. But depending on your room size, distance from speaker to listeners, and whether you can elevate the sides so the tweeter isn’t firing directly at listeners’ ears, 90 degrees may not always be optimal for you. Thus sometimes slightly ahead (85) or behind (100) can work. In fact, when I run The CEDIA Designer (I have a monthly subscription I picked up awhile back for research purposes, and they use recommendations from the Trinnov white paper available only to integrators) on a dedicated room with one row of five seats, the recommended layout for side surrounds is indeed 100 degrees for their high channel count procesor in a 9.1.4 or 9.1.6 room.

With two rows of seats it’s more complex. But with the Altitude we have more flexibilty: not just adding wides, we can have a second pair of side surrounds and also possibly use remapping.

In your case, I’d definitely add wides at 45-50 degrees if I could, since when DTS:X Pro comes out on the Altitude, you’ll get added benefit than just passthrough on Atmos content, and whatever you and/or a calbrator you may work with might do with speaker arrays with upmixers.

BTW, TCD has rears at 150. I think that’s because their software algorithm works with the “universal layout”, taking all three 3D codecs into account, not an Atmos-only layout. And I don’t think they assume remapping as such to their layout, but remapping to existing Atmos/Auro/DTS:X layouts.

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides/Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, Image B6 screens, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 13.4.6
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post #6705 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
Will the Trinnov use wides to more smoothly pan sounds from front LCR to surrounds even if the mix does not utilize wides?


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You can copy content from, say, side surrounds at a lower db level to wides with upmixers, yes, and do a custom preset for, say, Disney movies in Atmos that are pre-rendered to 7.1.4 by using a “temporary” 7.1.4 layout in the preset and then copy channels to unused speakers (at lower db level and possibly with delay). But that’s an advanced use you’re not going to get from just doing a setup in the Calibration Wizard, and should be done carefully.

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides/Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, Image B6 screens, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 13.4.6
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post #6706 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 08:18 AM
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Hallo all,


I have some questions hope someone can answer.



Can A32 use digital and analog output at the same time? I only need 4 digital outputs from DB25 (L,C,R,SUB) and the rest from analog XLR outputs.


I know that DB25 to XLR cable has 16 channel, is it possible to make custom one with only 4 channels XLR connector?




Thanks
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post #6707 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 08:55 AM
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I know that DB25 to XLR cable has 16 channel, is it possible to make custom one with only 4 channels XLR connector?
Call up these guys and tell them what you want. Make sure you specify Tascam pinout on the DB25.

https://www.proaudiola.com/cabling-s...BoC_e4QAvD_BwE

They make good stuff at fair prices.
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post #6708 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 10:10 AM
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It is not recommended to leave the A16 on all the time (same applies to A32)
My dealer told me just the opposite. Plus there is no power toggle button on the remote, which seems to lead to not turning on/off easily. The boot up time is pretty long, so if powering up from start, it is difficult to program enough delay into a control system to adjust inputs or surround modes if you need to wait 2 minutes for the A32 to boot up every time.
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post #6709 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ksalno View Post
My dealer told me just the opposite. Plus there is no power toggle button on the remote, which seems to lead to not turning on/off easily. The boot up time is pretty long, so if powering up from start, it is difficult to program enough delay into a control system to adjust inputs or surround modes if you need to wait 2 minutes for the A32 to boot up every time.
There have been some issues with log filling up if you never restarting; which can potentially lead to crash of the unit. Maybe they have fixed this issue?

The A32 takes 52 seconds to startup. I just turn it on; get something to drink and everything is ready to go. I don't see the boot-time as a problem.

HT: Trinnov A32 (AL32-1632)/AMP8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846 - Bose NC 700
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post #6710 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Grail View Post
If I were you, I'dd add Alcons and Meyer Sound to that list.

My own shopping list for LCR speakers consists of:

- JBL M2
- Wisdom L100 or Cinema Line 3
- Meyer Sound (Bluehorn or Acheron)
- Alcons CRMS MkII

All of them play in a higher league compared to Procella, IMHO.
Just wrapped up an upgrade from Triad Platinum/Gold 7.1 to Meyer Sound BlueHorns (LCR) and Meyer Sound UP and Acherons for the surrounds and height channels in a 11.2.8 configuration. I love the result but MS has their own Galaxy units they use for DSP, so A32 is used only as a preamp, codec, and channel mapping.
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post #6711 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksalno View Post
My dealer told me just the opposite. Plus there is no power toggle button on the remote, which seems to lead to not turning on/off easily. The boot up time is pretty long, so if powering up from start, it is difficult to program enough delay into a control system to adjust inputs or surround modes if you need to wait 2 minutes for the A32 to boot up every time.
Whilst I agree that the lack of a power toggle button on the remote is a very strange oversight, it is easy to have the Altitude boot (and shut down) via the 12v trigger input.

The boot time isn't too much of an issue for me, as I have to wait for a projector to boot and HDMI handshake anyway. I do think though, some sort of 'sleep' mode, that gives faster start-up from a semi-standby mode, than a cold boot, would be ideal.
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post #6712 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ksalno View Post
My dealer told me just the opposite. Plus there is no power toggle button on the remote, which seems to lead to not turning on/off easily. The boot up time is pretty long, so if powering up from start, it is difficult to program enough delay into a control system to adjust inputs or surround modes if you need to wait 2 minutes for the A32 to boot up every time.


Just a little warning. Leaving the Altitudes display on for long periods of time can result in burn-in occurring on the display.


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post #6713 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by jbuccino View Post
For us newcomers to the Trinnov family, can you give a brief summary of how to enable the 2D/3D remapping? I have already configured and calibrated (multiple points) my DTS:X system (5.1.2 - 5.1 + Lh, Rh). Is it as simple as experimenting with the options using the "Remapping" menu on the "Optimizer and Remapping" page or are there other things I have to consider? Is there anything else I can experiment with? Thanks.
You have to activate the remapping under Optimizer & Remapping screen - default is "none". Here you can select "autoroute" (I don't like this), "2D", "3D" and "manual". It is also important that you have selected the correct speaker mapping for all formats in the layout-screen.
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Last edited by Berland; 03-26-2019 at 10:25 AM.
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post #6714 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
You have to activate the remapping under Optimizer & Remapping screen - default is "none". Here you can select "autoroute" (I don't like this), "2D", "3D" and "manual".

So that's all there is to it (once a system is calibrated)? What do most people set this option to? 3D? Or is is a personal/source listening preference?

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post #6715 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jbuccino View Post
So that's all there is to it (once a system is calibrated)? What do most people set this option to? 3D? Or is is a personal/source listening preference?
I prefer 2D for stereo and 5.1/7.1 material. 3D for atmos, DTS:X and Auro-3D (Auro-3D I find pointless, have a few titles out of over 7000 with Auro-3D. And no; I have not seen all the movies ).

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post #6716 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
I prefer 2D for stereo and 5.1/7.1 material. 3D for atmos, DTS:X and Auro-3D (Auro-3D I find pointless, have a few titles out of over 7000 with Auro-3D. And no; I have not seen all the movies ).

Thanks. I'll try the various options tonight. I'm excited to see if I hear a difference.

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post #6717 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Whilst I agree that the lack of a power toggle button on the remote is a very strange oversight, it is easy to have the Altitude boot (and shut down) via the 12v trigger input.

The boot time isn't too much of an issue for me, as I have to wait for a projector to boot and HDMI handshake anyway. I do think though, some sort of 'sleep' mode, that gives faster start-up from a semi-standby mode, than a cold boot, would be ideal.
I have connected my Oppo UDP-203 (set up with display off) to trigger the Altitude32; which again triggers the Amplitude8, Multiple subs; Bryston 4B SST2 etc.

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post #6718 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 10:36 AM
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Thanks. I'll try the various options tonight. I'm excited to see if I hear a difference.
If you can see the difference I'm impressed; but you will hear it
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post #6719 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 10:56 AM
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Lumagen advice?

Here's another question. I noticed that a number of you are using the Lumagen Radiance Pro for scaling. Before upgrading my pre-processor to the ALT16 I had my video sources go directly to my display devices and used their internal scaling capabilities. This was mostly because the Denon AVP did not support 4K. Now I have all my video sources directly connected to the ALT16 and allowing it to switch video to my display via HDMI OUT 2. I also upgraded by Mac Mini (where I store most of my content) to the 4K version. I am quite impressed with the improved video quality of the entire system. It has made a noticeable difference. But the Lumagen has me intrigued. Is there further video improvement possible for my sources (mostly 1080p)? Is the ALT16 doing anything to improve the video input (like the Lumagen) or it is simply a pass through?

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post #6720 of 9230 Old 03-26-2019, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jbuccino View Post
Here's another question. I noticed that a number of you are using the Lumagen Radiance Pro for scaling. Before upgrading my pre-processor to the ALT16 I had my video sources go directly to my display devices and used their internal scaling capabilities. This was mostly because the Denon AVP did not support 4K. Now I have all my video sources directly connected to the ALT16 and allowing it to switch video to my display via HDMI OUT 2. I also upgraded by Mac Mini (where I store most of my content) to the 4K version. I am quite impressed with the improved video quality of the entire system. It has made a noticeable difference. But the Lumagen has me intrigued. Is there further video improvement possible for my sources (mostly 1080p)? Is the ALT16 doing anything to improve the video input (like the Lumagen) or it is simply a pass through?
The HDMI 2.0 board in Altitude does not process anything, it just passes through the signal. In my opinion this is the best option; since so much happens in upscaling technology; so in my experience it is best to leave upscaling to the screen itself (that is were the cutting edge technology exist, not in a box from 2014).

HT: Trinnov A32 (AL32-1632)/AMP8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846 - Bose NC 700
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