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post #7051 of 8035 Old 04-24-2019, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by RUR View Post
Everything is done in the digital domain, including basics like gains/delays and even volume (64bit FP). There is no pure analog path thru the Altitude.

Thanks for reply. What is the best way to play DSD files?
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post #7052 of 8035 Old 04-24-2019, 10:26 AM
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Thanks for reply. What is the best way to play DSD files?
I set ROON to downsample to 88k and play via Alt32 in Auro-3D, for both multi-channel and two channel DSD, DSD256 or DSD512. You can play DSD, etc in straight stereo if you set ROON to 176k, but not Auro-3D.

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! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
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post #7053 of 8035 Old 04-24-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by mineforever View Post
Hi everyone,

I have a question on the optimization applied on the sound by the Trinnov32. Is this optimization applied on the digital signal or the analogue one?

I am asking to see how best to listen to my DSD music, if the optimization is appolied on the analogue signal then i use a DSD DAC as a source to feed the trinnov with an analogue signal.

Thanks
Optimizer works in the digital domain. DSD music; if you are playing from Roon - Roon will convert to PCM when using Altitude32 as a Roon endpoint (over ethernet)

You can of course use a DSD DAC; but then you will convert the analog to digital when entering the Trinnov; then back again - not optimal. DSD through the Trinnov (PCM converted in Roon) sounds fantastic. No need to make it more complicated.
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HT: Trinnov Altitude32 (AL32-1632)/Amplitude8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 Network Player - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846
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post #7054 of 8035 Old 04-24-2019, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
I set ROON to downsample to 88k and play via Alt32 in Auro-3D, for both multi-channel and two channel DSD, DSD256 or DSD512. You can play DSD, etc in straight stereo if you set ROON to 176k, but not Auro-3D.
No, set Altitude32 to maximum 96kHz in Roon, and you will get DSD converted to 88.2kHz. With maximum 192kHz you will not get Auro-3D for anything above 96kHz. But if you don't want to use Auro-3D, this will make DSD play in 176.4kHz.

Edit:
Many DSD compatible DACs actually work internally in PCM domain; they just do an internal conversion of DSD to PCM. Other works the other way; they internally work in DSD then PCM is internally converted to DSD. Another side note; many DACs with sigmadelta DAC chips actually only use the PCM part internally in the chip (these are then converted to DSD). So DSD is not DSD just because you can send this into the DAC. The world is more complicated.
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HT: Trinnov Altitude32 (AL32-1632)/Amplitude8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 Network Player - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846

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post #7055 of 8035 Old 04-24-2019, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
No, set Altitude32 to maximum 96kHz in Roon, and you will get DSD converted to 88.2kHz. With maximum 192kHz you will not get Auro-3D for anything above 96kHz. But if you don't want to use Auro-3D, this will make DSD play in 176.4kHz.

Edit:
Many DSD compatible DACs actually work internally in PCM domain; they just do an internal conversion of DSD to PCM. Other works the other way; they internally work in DSD then PCM is internally converted to DSD. Another side note; many DACs with sigmadelta DAC chips actually only use the PCM part internally in the chip (these are then converted to DSD). So DSD is not DSD just because you can send this into the DAC. The world is more complicated.
I agree with you!!! Except that one may want to use different DSP filters in ROON, which you only get by enabling DSP, and then settings must be set for each sampling resolution/rate.

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
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post #7056 of 8035 Old 04-25-2019, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
I agree with you!!! Except that one may want to use different DSP filters in ROON, which you only get by enabling DSP, and then settings must be set for each sampling resolution/rate.
I'm fairly sure that the selected DSD filter is used when Roon is by default converting DSD to PCM with DSP/Sample Rate Conversion disabled.

HT: Trinnov Altitude32 (AL32-1632)/Amplitude8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 Network Player - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846
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post #7057 of 8035 Old 04-25-2019, 08:05 AM
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I'm fairly sure that the selected DSD filter is used when Roon is by default converting DSD to PCM with DSP/Sample Rate Conversion disabled.
Aside from the DSD filter, there are four other filters you can use. See photos. But you cannot change the filter unless you engage the DSP function.
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! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
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post #7058 of 8035 Old 04-25-2019, 02:45 PM
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Steve B, which SGC roon server do you use? I assume it's one of the sonictransporter models. Since you can get multi-channel out of yours, I'd like to know if you have an i5 or i7 model. I had emailed Andrew before I bought one asking about the HDMI connection, which he confirmed they don't support, and he thought he implied they don't support multichannel, which is why I'm asking I bought an i5 model, the one with the CDR drive, same model as audioguy's. It'd be nice if the one I have can send 5.1 to the Altitude

I still have to setup a Roon acct so haven't dived into the weeds yet. Roon & Tidal or Qobuz will all be new to me.

Steve
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post #7059 of 8035 Old 04-25-2019, 03:01 PM
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Steve B, which SGC roon server do you use? I assume it's one of the sonictransporter models. Since you can get multi-channel out of yours, I'd like to know if you have an i5 or i7 model. I had emailed Andrew before I bought one asking about the HDMI connection, which he confirmed they don't support, and he thought he implied they don't support multichannel, which is why I'm asking I bought an i5 model, the one with the CDR drive, same model as audioguy's. It'd be nice if the one I have can send 5.1 to the Altitude

I still have to setup a Roon acct so haven't dived into the weeds yet. Roon & Tidal or Qobuz will all be new to me.
Both the Small Green Computer Sonic Transporter i5 and also the i7 for ROON DSP will work as a ROON Core for both 2 and multi-channel. If you have multi-channel DSD or higher that you are downsampling via ROON, the i5 might get hung up a bit over long ethernet runs (from one room to another). Might. I had an i5 and then got an i7 because the latter has 2 ethernet inputs/outputs, so one can connect to network switcher, one can connect direct to Altitude 32 (or 16). Some at Audiophile Style thought the direct ethernet connection sounds better. it maybe did with my prior SSP, but now with Alt32 I don't know, haven't tested it either way. Plus I use a DJM Electronics Gigafoil v4 between my i7 ROON Core and the Alt32 - takes ethernet in, outputs ethernet, but inside is fiber/optical conversion to eliminate/reduce any EMI noise.

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
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post #7060 of 8035 Old 04-25-2019, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
Steve B, which SGC roon server do you use? I assume it's one of the sonictransporter models. Since you can get multi-channel out of yours, I'd like to know if you have an i5 or i7 model. I had emailed Andrew before I bought one asking about the HDMI connection, which he confirmed they don't support, and he thought he implied they don't support multichannel, which is why I'm asking I bought an i5 model, the one with the CDR drive, same model as audioguy's. It'd be nice if the one I have can send 5.1 to the Altitude

I still have to setup a Roon acct so haven't dived into the weeds yet. Roon & Tidal or Qobuz will all be new to me.
SGC has been elusive about multichannel for years but there is no reason that their i5 or i7 models cannot support multichannel via Roon. I have used a older MacMini i5 exactly this way with the A32.

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Roon Nucleus/Nucleus+ works flawless with multichannel. Why make it complicated? Or build your own based on Intel NUC (much cheaper).

HT: Trinnov Altitude32 (AL32-1632)/Amplitude8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 Network Player - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846
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post #7062 of 8035 Old 04-25-2019, 05:01 PM
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Roon Nucleus/Nucleus+ works flawless with multichannel.
Yes, as long as you do not use much DSP/resampling.

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post #7063 of 8035 Old 04-25-2019, 05:02 PM
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SGC has been elusive about multichannel for years but there is no reason that their i5 or i7 models cannot support multichannel via Roon. I have used a older MacMini i5 exactly this way with the A32.
SGC are less money, more power, better deal and work as flawlessly or better than the ROON Nucleus models. Any ROON Core device can serve as a ROON Core for multichannel music. The question is the ROON endpoint. My up for sale Sonore Signature Rendu SE w Tier 3 optical/fiber mod (USB to Berkeley Audio Alpha USB Converter, just sold) was 2 channel only. I used a modded CAPSv3 HDMI out (for sale now) for multi-channel audio with my prior Theta CBIVA SSP. But not only is the Altitude 32 (and 16) ROON Ready ethernet, I found that ROON Ready sounded about the same as using my "expensive" Sonore USB player/Berkeley combo. And before HDMI multi-channel not as good sounding as two channel in my prior system, as HDMI just is good but not as good sounding as Sonore/Berkeley 2 channel. Now my ROON Ready ethernet for ROON 2 and multi-channel sound fantastic and identical.

By the way go over to www.highdefinitiontapetranspfers for a few days they have a 20% off sale. Their stuff sounds awesome, recorded originally back in the day on Reel to Reel at 15 LPS!

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
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post #7064 of 8035 Old 04-25-2019, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
SGC has been elusive about multichannel for years but there is no reason that their i5 or i7 models cannot support multichannel via Roon. I have used a older MacMini i5 exactly this way with the A32.
SGC are less money, more power, better deal and work as flawlessly or better than the ROON Nucleus models. Any ROON Core device can serve as a ROON Core for multichannel music. The question is the ROON endpoint. My up for sale Sonore Signature Rendu SE w Tier 3 optical/fiber mod (USB to Berkeley Audio Alpha USB Converter, just sold) was 2 channel only. I used a modded CAPSv3 HDMI out (for sale now) for multi-channel audio with my prior Theta CBIVA SSP. But not only is the Altitude 32 (and 16) ROON Ready ethernet, I found that ROON Ready sounded about the same as using my "expensive" Sonore USB player/Berkeley combo. And before HDMI multi-channel not as good sounding as two channel in my prior system, as HDMI just is good but not as good sounding as Sonore/Berkeley 2 channel. Now my ROON Ready ethernet for ROON 2 and multi-channel sound fantastic and identical.

By the way go over to www.highdefinitiontapetranspfers for a few days they have a 20% off sale. Their stuff sounds awesome, recorded originally back in the day on Reel to Reel at 15 LPS!
Main advantage of nucleus is that it can be incorporated into Control4 or other automation systems . Roon provides drivers for main automation systems but they only work with nucleus . That was the main reason I ended up getting nucleus rather that building my own , which I always prefer in computers .
Something to consider if that is important to you
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Main advantage of nucleus is that it can be incorporated into Control4 or other automation systems . Roon provides drivers for main automation systems but they only work with nucleus . That was the main reason I ended up getting nucleus rather that building my own , which I always prefer in computers .
Something to consider if that is important to you
My Sonic Transporter i7 for ROON DSP is always on, so I don't see any need to control. I should also mention that Small Green Computer/Andrew Gillis has customized a Linux - Sonic Orbiter - operating system just as the ROON Nucleus has done.

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
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so im gathering equipment for my soon (hopefully) to be built dedicated theater.
reading and gathering info on processors. until today i thought i had settled on the Marantz AV8805.
my buddy told me i should check out the Altitude 16.
with fairly limited research completed as of yet...i have reached my first observation/question.

i know the Alt 16 processes 16 channels. i dont see subwoofer outs on rear panel.
does this mean if i want 2 subs i am maxed out with 14 full range speakers?
ex: 7.2.4....maybe adding VOG
then im done, right?

thanks for your time
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post #7067 of 8035 Old 04-26-2019, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by googoogjoob View Post
so im gathering equipment for my soon (hopefully) to be built dedicated theater.
reading and gathering info on processors. until today i thought i had settled on the Marantz AV8805.
my buddy told me i should check out the Altitude 16.
with fairly limited research completed as of yet...i have reached my first observation/question.

i know the Alt 16 processes 16 channels. i dont see subwoofer outs on rear panel.
does this mean if i want 2 subs i am maxed out with 14 full range speakers?
ex: 7.2.4....maybe adding VOG
then im done, right?

thanks for your time
Using identical subs and a splitter you only need 1 channel, leaving 15 channels to go all the way up to e.g. 9.x.6.
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post #7068 of 8035 Old 04-26-2019, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by googoogjoob View Post
so im gathering equipment for my soon (hopefully) to be built dedicated theater.
reading and gathering info on processors. until today i thought i had settled on the Marantz AV8805.
my buddy told me i should check out the Altitude 16.
with fairly limited research completed as of yet...i have reached my first observation/question.

i know the Alt 16 processes 16 channels. i dont see subwoofer outs on rear panel.
does this mean if i want 2 subs i am maxed out with 14 full range speakers?
ex: 7.2.4....maybe adding VOG
then im done, right?

thanks for your time
In Trinnov-world, there aren't designated channel xlr connections. You map each channel to any number & position of speakers or number of subs as you want; it's all done in the software's speaker layout. For example, you could have 4 subs, one on each channel for 7.4.4. The only downside is using up channels for each sub that could be used for more speakers.

If your 2 subs are at identical distances from main listening position, especially if they are identical subs (mine aren't), then you can combine them into 1 channel with a y-cable as maikeldepotter suggested. A y-cable isn't a bad way to start. I did that for a short time until I mastered how to use an external DSP and how to set the delays & gains for each sub.

This is also a Trinnov trick for managing multiple subs that still uses 1 channel & connection per sub but is another option for calibration purposes.

Steve

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post #7069 of 8035 Old 04-26-2019, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
In Trinnov-world, there aren't designated channel xlr connections. You map each channel to any number & position of speakers or number of subs as you want; it's all done in the software's speaker layout. For example, you could have 4 subs, one on each channel for 7.4.4. The only downside is using up channels for each sub that could be used for more speakers.

If your 2 subs are at identical distances from main listening position, especially if they are identical subs (mine aren't), then you can combine them into 1 channel with a y-cable as maikeldepotter suggested. A y-cable isn't a bad way to start. I did that for a short time until I mastered how to use an external DSP and how to set the delays & gains for each sub.

This is also a Trinnov trick for managing multiple subs that still uses 1 channel & connection per sub but is another option for calibration purposes.
Or alternatively you go for the Altitude32 with 24 or 32 channels

HT: Trinnov Altitude32 (AL32-1632)/Amplitude8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 Network Player - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846
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post #7070 of 8035 Old 04-26-2019, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mani View Post
Main advantage of nucleus is that it can be incorporated into Control4 or other automation systems . Roon provides drivers for main automation systems but they only work with nucleus . That was the main reason I ended up getting nucleus rather that building my own , which I always prefer in computers .
Something to consider if that is important to you
My Sonic Transporter i7 for ROON DSP is always on, so I don't see any need to control. I should also mention that Small Green Computer/Andrew Gillis has customized a Linux - Sonic Orbiter - operating system just as the ROON Nucleus has done.
Hi Steve

The advantage I was referring to was that I don’t have to give kids and the family access to Roon app where they can change settings etc . Control4 can create Roon zones and I can name everyone’s favorite list and from control 4 remote or touch panel they can play their list in any zone . I am still in the programming stages of this with Control4 , so don’t know how seemless this will work . Again that advantage may or may not be important based on everyone’s listening conditions .
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Is there a difference in sound quality in music servers A vs B (SGC vs Roon Nucleus/+, PS Audio, ETC playing over the Ethernet? I agree using a PC may be bad because of noise. I believe the endpoint makes the difference. Enquirer wants to know!!
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post #7072 of 8035 Old 04-26-2019, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Papouche Le Mec View Post
Is there a difference in sound quality in music servers A vs B (SGC vs Roon Nucleus/+, PS Audio, ETC playing over the Ethernet? I agree using a PC may be bad because of noise. I believe the endpoint makes the difference. Enquirer wants to know!!
Probably not so much a ROON Core vs absolutely on your ROON Endpoint or ROON Ready device.

The beauty of ROON is that you can separate the ROON Core device, which does all the processing and sample rate conversion, from the endpoint or ROON Ready device, which is the player. This improves the audio quality. Initially with ROON I used a CAPSv3 Zuma modded (Computer Audiophile Pocket Server) (custom built to my specs by Small Green Computer) (see my ad at Audiophile Style/Computer Audiophile For Sale Forum as I'm selling this as no longer use) but then ROON came out with an update providing for separate ROON Core and ROON Ready devices, and I then got the Sonore Microrendu, and the better sonics were clear.

You don't need to worry - you've got the Trinnov SSP which is ROON Ready.

However, you could do what I have done. Add a DJM Electronics Gigafoil v4 https://www.djmelectronics.com/gigaf...et-filter.html inbetween your ROON Core and the Altitude. Provides ethernet to fiber/optical to ethernet conversion, saying bye bye to EMI noise in the line.
DJM Electronics is a military supplier of this and related technology. And just use the supplied wall wart LPS power supply, it works fine - I've tested a separate LPS (linear power supply) and took it out because the wall wart LPS sounds as good.

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! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
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post #7073 of 8035 Old 04-26-2019, 03:02 PM
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Or alternatively you go for the Altitude32 with 24 or 32 channels
only if you are contributing!
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post #7074 of 8035 Old 04-26-2019, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
Using identical subs and a splitter you only need 1 channel, leaving 15 channels to go all the way up to e.g. 9.x.6.
thats good to know. thanks. 9.2.6 is my goal. ill be using 2 B&W CT SW15s which employ an outboard amp/crossover which powers 2 subs.
problem solved! thanks again to Maikel & SS9001

Last edited by googoogjoob; 04-26-2019 at 03:07 PM. Reason: additional thoughts...
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post #7075 of 8035 Old 04-26-2019, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Probably not so much a ROON Core vs absolutely on your ROON Endpoint or ROON Ready device.

The beauty of ROON is that you can separate the ROON Core device, which does all the processing and sample rate conversion, from the endpoint or ROON Ready device, which is the player. This improves the audio quality. Initially with ROON I used a CAPSv3 Zuma modded (Computer Audiophile Pocket Server) (custom built to my specs by Small Green Computer) (see my ad at Audiophile Style/Computer Audiophile For Sale Forum as I'm selling this as no longer use) but then ROON came out with an update providing for separate ROON Core and ROON Ready devices, and I then got the Sonore Microrendu, and the better sonics were clear.

You don't need to worry - you've got the Trinnov SSP which is ROON Ready.

However, you could do what I have done. Add a DJM Electronics Gigafoil v4 https://www.djmelectronics.com/gigaf...et-filter.html inbetween your ROON Core and the Altitude. Provides ethernet to fiber/optical to ethernet conversion, saying bye bye to EMI noise in the line.
DJM Electronics is a military supplier of this and related technology. And just use the supplied wall wart LPS power supply, it works fine - I've tested a separate LPS (linear power supply) and took it out because the wall wart LPS sounds as good.
Thank you.
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post #7076 of 8035 Old 04-27-2019, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by googoogjoob View Post
only if you are contributing!

That's why I have an Altitude 16
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post #7077 of 8035 Old 04-27-2019, 12:07 PM
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Anyone know if the warranty is transferable on the Altitude's?
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post #7078 of 8035 Old 04-27-2019, 12:38 PM
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Anyone know if the warranty is transferable on the Altitude's?
Have not checked how it works on Trinnov units, but all other warranties I have used - they never cared about who originally purchased it. I'm guessing it is the same for Trinnov.

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post #7079 of 8035 Old 04-27-2019, 12:40 PM
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Anyone know if the warranty is transferable on the Altitude's?


Yes, new owner gets the balance of the 5 year warranty.


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post #7080 of 8035 Old 04-28-2019, 04:42 AM
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Recommended practice is to reboot the Altitude at least once daily.
Is this as simple as turning it off and on with the power button, or do you have to go into a menu to do this?

(trying to suss out how easy/difficult an altitude would be for a wife and small kids to use daily)

Last edited by madhuski; 04-28-2019 at 06:25 AM.
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