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post #7111 of 8091 Old 05-01-2019, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Kishore View Post
Did you reload the profiles?

Kishore, do I assume that you now own an Altitude? If so, welcome to the club!

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
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post #7112 of 8091 Old 05-01-2019, 02:45 PM
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Ok...you lost me 'reload the profiles'? Presets, profiles...again..very close to the same thing. But I THINK I did?
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post #7113 of 8091 Old 05-01-2019, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
I have saved 3 presets. One for TV, Zappiti, and Roon. When I hit the button for preset 3, which is Zappiti.....everything changes, and imput 4, preset 3...all good. Then if I try and go to the TV preset, which is preset 2....it shows everthing right, but chooses input 3 instead of imput 2! Here are screen shots of that TV config. But for some reason, when I hit the button for preset 2, which is TV...it keeps showing HDMI 3, and it should be HDMI 2
Why are you having one profile for each input ? It makes no sense.

You need to select input to get corresponding profil (if any selected for input); profil will NEVER EVER change input.

A much bigger question is why are you finding out this on your own - normally buying an Altitude comes with an installer which will set up the basics and everything correct for your system (including calibration). When I bought my Altitude32, they came to my door with it - and set it up in my system and configured it as I wanted + did calibration for each profile. I'm using one for "surround/atmos"; one for stereo with 2 subs (2.2) and one for Stereo without subs (which I never use).

Edit:
If you have one sub; and are not planning to configure stereo sub (left sub to left channel, and right channel to right channel) - then you in reality only need one profile

HT: Trinnov Altitude32 (AL32-1632)/Amplitude8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 Network Player - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846

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post #7114 of 8091 Old 05-01-2019, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
A much bigger question is why are you finding out this on your own - normally buying an Altitude comes with an installer which will set up the basics and everything correct for your system. When I bought my Altitude32, they came to my door with it - and set it up in my system and configured it as I wanted.
At the very least, he needs to get his dealer to come and explain the philosophy of the product and its architecture - but preferably set it up. Or if the dealer isn't qualified, then hire someone who is. Doing what he is doing without some guidance could lead to some very ugly results.
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post #7115 of 8091 Old 05-01-2019, 03:11 PM
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in the advanced tab on the Pad...home tab 1st. under 'select' I select HDMI 4, which I call Zappiti. On the same tab, is sources config.... I Zappiti, and it says input HDMI 4, and under optimizer preset, I use 3. Which I put in because I thought I had to do that to make sure I'm getting the optimizer and the right input. The last tab at the top, presets....is where I made a preset for Zappiti....using slot 3 and then hit save. I thought this is how I saved everything. I'm looking for a way...once the Trinnov is on...to hit a button, preset 3, or profile 3..something...that will keep all the speaker setting, the optimizer stuff...and select the right input..all with one button. Then hit another button to say, change to the TV input
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post #7116 of 8091 Old 05-01-2019, 03:15 PM
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Again preset is configuration of audio (and speakers); nothing to do with input. If you play an Atmos/DTS:X/TrueHD/DTS HD MA/DD/DTS movie from blu-ray, media player or apple tv 4K (streamer) makes no difference. It is the same preset Everything connected to audio (independent of source) is relating preset. Preset is never connected to input; but an input can be set up to automatically select a preset when you select input.

I have no clue how it is possible to start without knowledge to calibrate the Altitude, this will never be good regardless (I got basic training for my dealer during initial setup; I have talked a lot with Trinnov; I have playing around for months and are still learning something new every day).

Even setting up the microphone for calibration correctly is a difficult task. And you need to read the manual multiple times (from start to finish).

If you configure a preset with speaker layout 7.2.4; this will work for atmos and DTS:X; and will also work fine for 5.1/7.1, auro-3d; stereo etc. You can decide to upmix or play native. All from the same preset.

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post #7117 of 8091 Old 05-01-2019, 03:26 PM
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Anyone here played around with REW for the PEQ on Altitude? I have started; it takes forever and is complex. But OMG how good it sounds!!!

Edit:
In my opinion; the PEQ is one of the best tools inside the Altitude (apply PEQ based on REW measurements post calibration with optimizer enabled).
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HT: Trinnov Altitude32 (AL32-1632)/Amplitude8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 Network Player - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846

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post #7118 of 8091 Old 05-01-2019, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
At the very least, he needs to get his dealer to come and explain the philosophy of the product and its architecture - but preferably set it up. Or if the dealer isn't qualified, then hire someone who is. Doing what he is doing without some guidance could lead to some very ugly results.
I thought it was a requirement from Trinnov to take the certification trainings (multiple) to actually be allowed to sell the Trinnov products.

HT: Trinnov Altitude32 (AL32-1632)/Amplitude8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
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post #7119 of 8091 Old 05-01-2019, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
I have saved 3 presets. One for TV, Zappiti, and Roon. When I hit the button for preset 3, which is Zappiti.....everything changes, and imput 4, preset 3...all good. Then if I try and go to the TV preset, which is preset 2....it shows everthing right, but chooses input 3 instead of imput 2! Here are screen shots of that TV config. But for some reason, when I hit the button for preset 2, which is TV...it keeps showing HDMI 3, and it should be HDMI 2
Edit - both Berland & audioguy are saying about the same things I'm saying below. They beat me to the Post button. But maybe a different way to explain it may be of help so here goes.



Select the Input 1st not the Preset.

Since you assigned Preset 2 to Input 2, when you select Input 2 1st, Preset 2 will automatically get selected to go with it. The way you're explaining it, it looks like you are doing it backwards - selecting the preset and expecting the input to change to match. It doesn't work that way. You are still free to pick any other preset for a different target curve for example. If earlier you had HDMI 3 on, picking preset 2 would not automatically change it to HDMI 2. But picking Input 2 will automatically pick preset 2 if you assigned preset 2 to Input 2.

You are free to use Preset 2 or any preset for any other input at any time. The 2 are not married together other than an assigned preset will get selected first when you pick that input. It's a convenience nothing more.

Summary - pick the input 1st and the Altitude will pick the preset that you assigned to it. If it worked the other way, you could never use that preset for anything but that specific input and that definitely isn't the case.

Hope this helps you in your learning the ropes.

As an aside, personally I've leave all my presets unassigned because each one may have a different target curve, specific speaker layout, subs/no subs, & I want to pick & choose these no matter what input I use Some want the auto selection because they've set up a specific preset & possibly target curve for a specific source, some like me are source-agnostic so we choose presets & change them on-the-fly to try different target curves, PEQ's, sub management, all independent of the source.

Steve

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post #7120 of 8091 Old 05-01-2019, 03:42 PM
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Another smart move is to create a copy of a preset (select preset first; then save it under a new slot). Then you have everything copied and can start changing target curve etc according to source (for example different target curve for old and new music; different type of music etc). This approach is also smart when you want to try out something else; you leave original preset as is; then make a copy and play around - you can very easily hear the difference by switching between the two presets.

In my opinion; people tend to make the world more complicated than needed by having too many presets

HT: Trinnov Altitude32 (AL32-1632)/Amplitude8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
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post #7121 of 8091 Old 05-01-2019, 04:02 PM
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^^
Guilty I have ~12 presets, 4 or 5 different target curves plus several specific speaker layouts, the reasons aren't important. All are indeed saved & in a specific ordering - to USB drive!

I started by saving them to different preset slots scattered all over but when I was sure my work was done, it was time for the USB drive. My mantra is never edit the original preset. I save it first to another slot THEN start doing edits and/or changes to curves. ALWAYS preserve the original preset until you're sure it's no longer wanted. Even then, there may be value in keeping the original as an option if it has a different target curve. Early on, I had accidentally deleted a preset and without a copy, it was get the mic and start over! Learned my lesson.

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I would pay someone to help with this...if someone lived close enough. But, I can't pay thousands! I'm in CA, Palm Springs.....basic set up..etc.
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post #7123 of 8091 Old 05-01-2019, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
Anyone here played around with REW for the PEQ on Altitude? I have started; it takes forever and is complex. But OMG how good it sounds!!!

Edit:
In my opinion; the PEQ is one of the best tools inside the Altitude (apply PEQ based on REW measurements post calibration with optimizer enabled).
I use OmniMic because, I was never able to get REW to work consistently. But whatever tool you use, it is MANDATORY to extract even close to optimal sound from the Trinnov. I use PEQs PRE Optimizer to reduce the amount of work Optimizer needs to deal with and to reduce/eliminate some of the more problematic frequency anomalies. (FWIW, the Datasat had that feature as well).
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post #7124 of 8091 Old 05-01-2019, 06:31 PM
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In the FWIW department, I thought my Altitude was experiencing heart failure. I would start it up, it would appear to be doing a normal startup procedure and then shut down. Without going into all of the details, we tried all kinds of things to track down the cause and I was ready to pack it up and send off for repair. As it turns out, I had a USB drive inserted that I had used for a specific purpose and it was causing the problem. I removed it and all was well.
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post #7125 of 8091 Old 05-01-2019, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
I would pay someone to help with this...if someone lived close enough. But, I can't pay thousands! I'm in CA, Palm Springs.....basic set up..etc.
It will most certainly cost "thousands" to have someone qualified do the calibration since you get to pay for the travel expenses and close to a full two days of work. I know Adam uses close to two full days and for the two (in addition to mine) I have done, they too have been two full days.

I don't know your background but based upon what I am reading, it does not appear you will be able to extract anywhere near what the Trinnov has to offer on your own.
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post #7126 of 8091 Old 05-01-2019, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
It will most certainly cost "thousands" to have someone qualified do the calibration since you get to pay for the travel expenses and close to a full two days of work. I know Adam uses close to two full days and for the two (in addition to mine) I have done, they too have been two full days.

I don't know your background but based upon what I am reading, it does not appear you will be able to extract anywhere near what the Trinnov has to offer on your own.
I agree. The easy setup just scratches the surface but still I find sounds phenomenal! Once my theatre upgrade/ renovation is done I am robbing Peter to pay Paul I mean Adam to come out to maximize my Sonics!

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
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post #7127 of 8091 Old 05-01-2019, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
It will most certainly cost "thousands" to have someone qualified do the calibration since you get to pay for the travel expenses and close to a full two days of work. I know Adam uses close to two full days and for the two (in addition to mine) I have done, they too have been two full days.

I don't know your background but based upon what I am reading, it does not appear you will be able to extract anywhere near what the Trinnov has to offer on your own.
I will mention that while it's always a best practice to have a calibrator on-site to set up a room with their practiced ear and full toolkit available, some calibrators (e.g. Curt Hoyt) will work with a user remotely over VNC to at least do a basic setup with measurement and check the setup, but it puts the burden on the user to position the mic correctly. However, you will have to pay for their time on an hourly rate.
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post #7128 of 8091 Old 05-01-2019, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
In the FWIW department, I thought my Altitude was experiencing heart failure. I would start it up, it would appear to be doing a normal startup procedure and then shut down. Without going into all of the details, we tried all kinds of things to track down the cause and I was ready to pack it up and send off for repair. As it turns out, I had a USB drive inserted that I had used for a specific purpose and it was causing the problem. I removed it and all was well.
Been there, done that . That once happened with a FireWire card that needed to be reseated as well. Easy to solve with a little help from Trinnov support and Curt.

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post #7129 of 8091 Old 05-01-2019, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I use OmniMic because, I was never able to get REW to work consistently. But whatever tool you use, it is MANDATORY to extract even close to optimal sound from the Trinnov. I use PEQs PRE Optimizer to reduce the amount of work Optimizer needs to deal with and to reduce/eliminate some of the more problematic frequency anomalies. (FWIW, the Datasat had that feature as well).
The one advantage to REW is that you can take one measurement and then slice it multiple ways (i.e. you measure sub response and can look not only at frequency response, but also spectrograms, waterfalls, distortion and the like). I haven't looked at OmniMic in years, but IIRC all of those looks require separate measurements in the OmniMic world. REW/HDMI is more or less a standard for external measurement these days on AVS, as there's a large support community here. HAA teaches use of Audiotools for measurement, which is nice for properly computing a spatial average using multiple mics (they use four) when taking a measurement for the subs.

Otherwise, I agree that measurement of the sub response (ideally both individual subs as well as summated response) with a REW or a more advanced approach with MSO (where you load individual sub measurements at multiple positions mimicking what you're doing with Optimizer) is the way to go. As long as PEQ can address common problems without introducing peak/dip artifacts in critical seats it's extremely useful as a setup before running Optimizer. But it's not for someone new to the Altitude without a lot of reading and building up an experience curve with these software algorithms.

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post #7130 of 8091 Old 05-01-2019, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
I would pay someone to help with this...if someone lived close enough. But, I can't pay thousands! I'm in CA, Palm Springs.....basic set up..etc.
Curt is in OC and he definitely can help you. You need help!!!!
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post #7131 of 8091 Old 05-01-2019, 08:10 PM
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Just did a quick read on the British forum and found a reference to a Trinnov Mac app. Not sure how this stacks up vs. VNC but this could be yet another way to make the overall experience more user friendly...

https://www.themovierooms.co.uk/blog/TrinMacOSApp/

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post #7132 of 8091 Old 05-02-2019, 03:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
I will mention that while it's always a best practice to have a calibrator on-site to set up a room with their practiced ear and full toolkit available, some calibrators (e.g. Curt Hoyt) will work with a user remotely over VNC to at least do a basic setup with measurement and check the setup, but it puts the burden on the user to position the mic correctly. However, you will have to pay for their time on an hourly rate.
As you pointed out, the techniques to position the mic correctly would be more than a bit difficult. And also as you pointed out, trained ears are critical to extract the full potential . Those shortcomings notwithstanding, a remote calibration from Curt would be much better than a "hit and miss" approach by someone who may lack the knowledge to do it properly themselves.
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post #7133 of 8091 Old 05-02-2019, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
The one advantage to REW is that you can take one measurement and then slice it multiple ways (i.e. you measure sub response and can look not only at frequency response, but also spectrograms, waterfalls, distortion and the like). I haven't looked at OmniMic in years, but IIRC all of those looks require separate measurements in the OmniMic world. REW/HDMI is more or less a standard for external measurement these days on AVS, as there's a large support community here. HAA teaches use of Audiotools for measurement, which is nice for properly computing a spatial average using multiple mics (they use four) when taking a measurement for the subs.

Otherwise, I agree that measurement of the sub response (ideally both individual subs as well as summated response) with a REW or a more advanced approach with MSO (where you load individual sub measurements at multiple positions mimicking what you're doing with Optimizer) is the way to go. As long as PEQ can address common problems without introducing peak/dip artifacts in critical seats it's extremely useful as a setup before running Optimizer. But it's not for someone new to the Altitude without a lot of reading and building up an experience curve with these software algorithms.
Stu: I can't tell you how many times I have tried to get REW to work -- and failed. I even offered to pay anyone that might live in Atlanta to get it running for me (no response). I use a Mac but run Windows on it for OmniMic - and have tried both the Mac and Windows version. What I would find problematic based upon my limited understanding is the necessity to run a long HDMI cable from REW at the MLP to the processor. Sure, I could sit next to the equipment and do the measurements, but in my case and the case of the two folks I have calibrated using the Trinnov (and most that I calibrated using the Datasat) had their processors in another separate equipment room - which would be way less than convenient. With OmniMic, I can either put a disc in the player (and stay in the listening room) or play it from the computer (which I never do).

Summary: If I can find someone to get REW up and running and if I don't need to use long HDMI cables, I would give REW a go (again). Prior to getting OmniMic (probably 8 years ago or so), I did use REW for a while but then, it quit working and I could never get it up and running again ( I can only assume I had sound card settings incorrect or something - none of which you have to worry about with OmniMic).

All of the above notwithstanding, trying to calibrate ANY surround processor (Audyssey, Dirac, Optimizer or ...) without the proper measuring tools and the knowledge to properly use them is a complete waste.
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post #7134 of 8091 Old 05-02-2019, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Stu: I can't tell you how many times I have tried to get REW to work -- and failed. I even offered to pay anyone that might live in Atlanta to get it running for me (no response). I use a Mac but run Windows on it for OmniMic - and have tried both the Mac and Windows version. What I would find problematic based upon my limited understanding is the necessity to run a long HDMI cable from REW at the MLP to the processor. Sure, I could sit next to the equipment and do the measurements, but in my case and the case of the two folks I have calibrated using the Trinnov (and most that I calibrated using the Datasat) had their processors in another separate equipment room - which would be way less than convenient. With OmniMic, I can either put a disc in the player (and stay in the listening room) or play it from the computer (which I never do).



Summary: If I can find someone to get REW up and running and if I don't need to use long HDMI cables, I would give REW a go (again). Prior to getting OmniMic (probably 8 years ago or so), I did use REW for a while but then, it quit working and I could never get it up and running again ( I can only assume I had sound card settings incorrect or something - none of which you have to worry about with OmniMic).



All of the above notwithstanding, trying to calibrate ANY surround processor (Audyssey, Dirac, Optimizer or ...) without the proper measuring tools and the knowledge to properly use them is a complete waste.
Why a long HDMI cable? Wouldn't you have the laptop closer to the Processor and then run a long USB cable to the microphone (or equivalent if using a non USB microphone).
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post #7135 of 8091 Old 05-02-2019, 05:04 AM
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In the FWIW department, I thought my Altitude was experiencing heart failure. I would start it up, it would appear to be doing a normal startup procedure and then shut down. Without going into all of the details, we tried all kinds of things to track down the cause and I was ready to pack it up and send off for repair. As it turns out, I had a USB drive inserted that I had used for a specific purpose and it was causing the problem. I removed it and all was well.

Glad you figured it out, Chuck! Early on, I also tried leaving the USB drive plugged in & had some kind of problem. A call to Jon and learned it's meant to be hot-plugged in while the unit is already on.

As 2 of you know, I did send mine to CT due to several issues that Paris support thought it best to have checked just in case. So far, they haven't found anything but they will be doing more testing. In case someone does need support/service, my experience with Paris & CT is they are top-notch people to work with. From email exchanges to personal phone calls with Antoine in Paris & Pete in CT, they will do their best to help the owner if issues come up. I never learned French (I did Latin in HS & "tried" German at college - a galaxy far far away ) but the people who answer the phone in Paris & Antoine have fluent English. Trinnov is a class company.

Contrast this to a typical call center experience from a major. I called Sony US support (oxymoron?) a week ago on a balky out-of-warranty SACD player and in 2 calls, it was almost impossible to understand the support person on the line. That's supposed to pass as international support? Waste of time. To add insult, the laser assembly had known longevity issues but Sony discontinued the part ~4 yrs ago. All that's left are Chinese knock-off parts on ebay etc & attempt a DIY repair. A $3000 player is gradually becoming a brick. Typical Sony. When they dropped the SACD format, they really dropped it, player support & all.

Kudos to Jon Herron & Antoine @ Trinnov for what they do.
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post #7136 of 8091 Old 05-02-2019, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
In the FWIW department, I thought my Altitude was experiencing heart failure. I would start it up, it would appear to be doing a normal startup procedure and then shut down. Without going into all of the details, we tried all kinds of things to track down the cause and I was ready to pack it up and send off for repair. As it turns out, I had a USB drive inserted that I had used for a specific purpose and it was causing the problem. I removed it and all was well.
This also happened to me when Walter was downloading some of his calibration assets. It kind of makes sense since the Trinnov is a computer. For recovery purposes, most computers will try to boot off an external drive if one is present (often a USB thumb drive). At first Walter was also afraid it was the firewire issue that he had run across in the past. Just out of curiosity, how often do you power down you Trinnov vs. leaving it on in mute?
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post #7137 of 8091 Old 05-02-2019, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Lasalle View Post
This also happened to me when Walter was downloading some of his calibration assets. It kind of makes sense since the Trinnov is a computer. For recovery purposes, most computers will try to boot off an external drive if one is present (often a USB thumb drive). At first Walter was also afraid it was the firewire issue that he had run across in the past. Just out of curiosity, how often do you power down you Trinnov vs. leaving it on in mute?
Best practice is to power cycle at least daily. For my clients with control systems, it operates just like every other surround sound processor or projector etc; when the system isn't in use, I power it down.
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post #7138 of 8091 Old 05-02-2019, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
I will mention that while it's always a best practice to have a calibrator on-site to set up a room with their practiced ear and full toolkit available, some calibrators (e.g. Curt Hoyt) will work with a user remotely over VNC to at least do a basic setup with measurement and check the setup, but it puts the burden on the user to position the mic correctly. However, you will have to pay for their time on an hourly rate.
I paid Curt for a few hours of remote help (he logged into my Trinnov via VNC) when I owned the ST2. It was well worth the money and gave me a better understanding of how to correctly setup the unit. If I were to purchase an Altitude I think I would pony up for a pro calibrator because it is the icing on the cake, and I don't like my cake without icing.
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post #7139 of 8091 Old 05-02-2019, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apgood View Post
Why a long HDMI cable? Wouldn't you have the laptop closer to the Processor and then run a long USB cable to the microphone (or equivalent if using a non USB microphone).
.

Yes, I can sit in the equipment room with the door closed and only need a short HDMI cable and a long USB cable to the mic (not my preference at all). But given I can't even get REW operational, that is kind of a moot point. If I were able to get REW working, then I might decide that doing it that way was worth it.
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post #7140 of 8091 Old 05-04-2019, 07:44 AM
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Q : to whom have lumagen with trinnov and k-scape strato

Do u get in lumagen info page in out 1



The 18G Y and hdcp 2.2

Not as showing in my page besides 18G N and hdcp 1.x




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