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post #7201 of 8079 Old 05-16-2019, 02:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mineforever View Post
Thanks guys for the responses I got!

I have tried other sources than roon and they are all working fine on the Altitude digital output for both analogue and digital input.

So basically the Altitude digital output problem is only when I play music via roon, I tried roon using tidal and NAS stocked music but no digital is out via the optical output. Roon only outputs the analogue one.
You should report this to Trinnov.

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post #7202 of 8079 Old 05-16-2019, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
I've been using ROON for 3.5 years now and the Altitude 32 since February.

The Altitude 32 plays up to 192-24. You can verify this by using the audio mode "Native" and it should play 192-24 or 176-24 fine. However, if there is an issue, or if the playing skips, then there may be an issue with the firewire card, contact [email protected], and they will take good care of you. In my case I had the skipping, and Trinnov replaced the firewire card, and all fine thereafter.

Since the Altitude 32 only plays up to 192-24, set ROON to downsample to an even downsampling - DSD (or DXD which is 352-24) or multiples of DSD to 176-24; 384-24 to 192-24; but do not upsample, leave everything 192-24 and below at its native sampling rate (I find that sounds best). You can do this in the ROON DSP menu, which I do because there are some DSP filters that can only be engaged in the DSP section.

Now Auro-3D by design only plays from 96-24 or lesser sample rate. I love Auro 3D and play everything stereo in Auro 3D! So I have set the DSP menu in ROON downsampling not to 192-24/176-24, but to 96-24/88-24. Frankly, the difference sonically for 192-24/176-24 vs 96-24/88-24 in "native" stereo is so minimal I can not or barely hear any difference, but the difference using Auro-3D in terms of increased dynamics and even better soundstate is awe inspiring for me! If you input 192-24/176-24 stereo, and engage Auro-3D, the Altitude will ignore Auro-3D and play native 2 channel also using your subwoofer(s).

I have tried other sonic audio modes to expand two channel and I find them lacking, I'd rather use "native" stereo. But Auro-3D is another story totally, its amazing!

As for an external DAC for front left and right, why bother? I thought about this and decided against even the trouble. The Altitude 32 is so darn transparent - there's a lot more going on in the software than just the DACs. There have to be software reasons, and software integration, as to why the Trinnov Altitude 32's pro DACs sound so darn fantastic, at least for me in comparison to my prior Theta Casablanca IVA SSP's Extreme D3 DACs, the latter which are touted as easily the best sounding in the AV industry for SSPs. Yet the Altitude 32 sounds better to me in every way! If you have an external DAC, I recommend first using the Altitude 32 for several months as is, then trying the external DAC, I suspect the external DAC may well not sound any better. I debated getting a "better" external stereo DAC to try out and I decided against it, why bother?
I’ve been enjoying Auro 3D for music as well. In 2 channel I’ve found you either need to turn off Bass Management or (in my case) switch to a preset with less bass output. I’ve been listening to more multi-channel recordings and found less of a need to adjust the bass settings (in some cases a preset with reduced bass, but not as reduced as the 2 channel setting). Has this been you experience as well, or does it vary more on the multi-channel recordings?
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post #7203 of 8079 Old 05-16-2019, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mineforever View Post
Thanks guys for the responses I got!

I have tried other sources than roon and they are all working fine on the Altitude digital output for both analogue and digital input.

So basically the Altitude digital output problem is only when I play music via roon, I tried roon using tidal and NAS stocked music but no digital is out via the optical output. Roon only outputs the analogue one.

If SCMS has been implemented in the digital stream it was probably implemented by Roon when they got Tidal on board. DAT tape decks were the first components to have the serial copy technology implemented in them so it has been around for quite some time. I still own 2 fully functional DAT units that’s why it immediately came to mind. Even 20 years on SCMS is still included in the HDCP license agreement so there is probably not a lot that Trinnov can do about it.


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post #7204 of 8079 Old 05-16-2019, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasalle View Post
I’ve been enjoying Auro 3D for music as well. In 2 channel I’ve found you either need to turn off Bass Management or (in my case) switch to a preset with less bass output. I’ve been listening to more multi-channel recordings and found less of a need to adjust the bass settings (in some cases a preset with reduced bass, but not as reduced as the 2 channel setting). Has this been you experience as well, or does it vary more on the multi-channel?
I haven't experienced this at all. I use my two JL Audio f212 subwoofers for both music and tv/movies. Several audiophile friends have come over and remark how excellent the bass is on both music and tv/movies! Audioguy says he and a few others experience what you are experiencing and Audioguy has his own method here for "correcting" the bass for Auro 3D music.

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post #7205 of 8079 Old 05-16-2019, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasalle View Post
I’ve been enjoying Auro 3D for music as well. In 2 channel I’ve found you either need to turn off Bass Management or (in my case) switch to a preset with less bass output. I’ve been listening to more multi-channel recordings and found less of a need to adjust the bass settings (in some cases a preset with reduced bass, but not as reduced as the 2 channel setting). Has this been you experience as well, or does it vary more on the multi-channel recordings?
Are you using different target curves for your Music preset versus your Movie preset? Movie presets often have a boost to the bass region of the target curve, where you commonly wouldn't want that with music.
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post #7206 of 8079 Old 05-16-2019, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
I haven't experienced this at all. I use my two JL Audio f212 subwoofers for both music and tv/movies. Several audiophile friends have come over and remark how excellent the bass is on both music and tv/movies! Audioguy says he and a few others experience what you are experiencing and Audioguy has his own method here for "correcting" the bass for Auro 3D music.
For non unmixed 2 channel, my standard presets are good no bass adjustment needed. I have 10 Seaton F18 in four locations. The front sound stage speakers are crossed over to the 2 4sub towers (R&L) behind the screen. The right surrounds and tops are crossed over to the right mid room sub and the left surrounds/tops are crossed over to the left mid room sub. It seems like on the 2 channel Auro 3D up-mix extra bass is going to these mid room subs (extra bass in the surrounds). This does not seem to happen on multi-channel recordings that are up mixed in Auro 3D.
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post #7207 of 8079 Old 05-16-2019, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Are you using different target curves for your Music preset versus your Movie preset? Movie presets often have a boost to the bass region of the target curve, where you commonly wouldn't want that with music.
When Walter did the calibration we listened to a lot of music and the standard (the main movie) preset worked perfect.
We listened to some 2 channel (not upmixed) and a lot of multi-channel music some upmixed in Auro 3D. These playbacks did not need reduced bass settings. I only found this issue when I upmixed 2 channel with Auro 3D. Luckily Walter did a few presets with different levels of reduced bass for bass heavy recordings and late night viewing. One these seems to be a perfect match for 2 channel upmixed Auro.
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post #7208 of 8079 Old 05-16-2019, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasalle View Post
For non unmixed 2 channel, my standard presets are good no bass adjustment needed. I have 10 Seaton F18 in four locations. The front sound stage speakers are crossed over to the 2 4sub towers (R&L) behind the screen. The right surrounds and tops are crossed over to the right mid room sub and the left surrounds/tops are crossed over to the left mid room sub. It seems like on the 2 channel Auro 3D up-mix extra bass is going to these mid room subs (extra bass in the surrounds). This does not seem to happen on multi-channel recordings that are up mixed in Auro 3D.
Go to post 6361 in this thread!

Here is what I quoted:
Quote:
I recommend a tweak to greatly improve your AuroMatic music listening ( for upconverting 2 channel music)

When Auro "copies" the L&R channel information to all of the other speakers, it "copies' the bass as well. It is VERY easy to hear by comparing true 2 channel to the upconverted version. It is also clearly very incorrect to my ears to to everyone else with whom I have implemented this "fix" - including someone yesterday with an Altitude 16. If you think about it, when you are in a live space, what makes it live is the reverb of the space itself. But bass doesn't act the same way.

Solution: Go to the crossover section and on every speaker except the left and right, turn off bass management (un-click the box). You are basically telling the Trinnov that these other speakers are full range. Then, when you build your target curves for each of these "full range" speakers (even if they really ARE full range), do so such that you are creating the equivalent of a high pass filter. So, for example, at 50Hz (or whatever your speaker has clean output to), go due south in the target as you move toward 20Hz.

Why do this? Since you have told your system that you have full range speakers you don't want those speakers trying to play those frequencies - even if they are capable of it. Since you have REAL full range speakers (if I recall correctly) at ear level, still do the "high pass filter" thing as you really don't want them to reproduce the bass. Try it and see if you like it. I have converted quite a few Auromatic users to this method (both Datasat and Trinnov). In fact, 100% of those who implemented this change much preferred it.

Also, if you have not experimented with it, adjust the "strength" slider. Start with it at the highest level (I think it is 15) and slide it lower until you can no longer actually "hear" any speakers other than the L&R. But if you check the "bypass" box, it will be very evident that they are playing as the sound field will completely collapse to the front of the room. Most of my listening, that is set at 10, but on some music, that is too high and on others, it can use a bit of boost. It will certainly be room (and preference) dependent. Lastly, set the "size" option (small, medium and large) to small. It tightens up the center image (that was a hint from Adam when he first did my room).
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post #7209 of 8079 Old 05-16-2019, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasalle View Post
When Walter did the calibration we listened to a lot of music and the standard (the main movie) preset worked perfect.
We listened to some 2 channel (not upmixed) and a lot of multi-channel music some upmixed in Auro 3D. These playbacks did not need reduced bass settings. I only found this issue when I upmixed 2 channel with Auro 3D. Luckily Walter did a few presets with different levels of reduced bass for bass heavy recordings and late night viewing. One these seems to be a perfect match for 2 channel upmixed Auro.
I can't say I've ever noticed "bass-heavy" recordings in two-channel upmixed to Auro 3D more than multichannel recordings (I usually listen to BD and DVDs in 5.1 rather than SACDs, though). Is your listening mostly EDM or music with things like pipe organs?

There's the "circle of confusion" and lack of music mixing standards, but my other thought is that Auromatic is essentially taking the L/R content and copying it, with some reverb defined by the Auro settings you have, to other speakers at reduced level. Conversely Neural:X does proprietary analysis through its algorithm to move elements of the content from mains to surrounds, and DSU does frequency-based steering to speakers in its approach. So it makes sense that Auromatic would be more prone to be "bass heavy" as part of its upmix process, as its doing something to all the speakers that the other upmix formats aren't. At least that's how I would see it. Or that bass management with Auro somehow operates differently than it does with other formats (unlikely).

At any rate, the nice thing about those presets is you can have an "Auro" preset with a lower bass boost in your target curve for surrounds.

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post #7210 of 8079 Old 05-16-2019, 01:36 PM
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Is there any proprietary Loudness add on the Trinnovs to use with low volume as we can see on other upmixing modes like THX Loudness Plus or Audyssey Dynamic EQ.?
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post #7211 of 8079 Old 05-16-2019, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Go to post 6361 in this thread!

Here is what I quoted:
Thanks, I thought I remember reading something about this a while back. What you described is what I'm hearing on two channel. I have a preset that fixes it
pretty well, but based on your explanation I should probably create one that just cuts back the side subs (which have all the surround bass). Also based on your explanation it would make sense that this is less of a problem on multi-channel as the correct bass levels are recorded in the surrounds which are then upmixed to the heights.
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post #7212 of 8079 Old 05-18-2019, 11:34 AM
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Does anyone use the “stealth mode” power option?
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post #7213 of 8079 Old 05-18-2019, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
Does anyone use the “stealth mode” power option?
What is the stealth mode power option?

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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
What is the stealth mode power option?

“the Altitude will Mute its outputs and turn off the front panel display when it receives a "System Off" command. This allows it to "wake ip" instantly when the System On command is sent”

(from trinnov support)

it’s supposed to be in the control4 driver but i can’t find it.

I’m thinking of using stealth mode, then schedule a on/off time
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post #7215 of 8079 Old 05-19-2019, 05:57 PM
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I noticed today...that on a ripped blu ray..of Elizabeth....the DTS MA track....squeaked! Like a squeak off and on in 1 speaker. It did this last week on another ripped Blu Ray..but I don't remember what now. Anyone else ever have this issue? Could it be the rip? The HMDI cable....the Trinnov?
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I have a 20 second sound clip of the 'churps'....but it seems the forum won't let me upload a mp3 file?
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Update, I switched from DTS-MA, to just DTS on the file...and no churps! So, it must be the DTS-MA file...for whatever reason.
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post #7218 of 8079 Old 05-20-2019, 08:25 AM
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It is a great day! My really old and defective Classe CA-5300 was credited by the shop (6+ years old) since they were unable to find parts to repair it. I was planning to sell it anyway; this is even better

Soon time to order an Amplitude8M for the atmos-speakers.
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post #7219 of 8079 Old 05-20-2019, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
I noticed today...that on a ripped blu ray..of Elizabeth....the DTS MA track....squeaked! Like a squeak off and on in 1 speaker. It did this last week on another ripped Blu Ray..but I don't remember what now. Anyone else ever have this issue? Could it be the rip? The HMDI cable....the Trinnov?
The one from 1998?

Mine works fine with DTS-HD.MA.

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post #7220 of 8079 Old 05-21-2019, 12:40 PM
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My plan is to add 9 * Piega AP 1.2 for ceiling. Anyone else tried these out ?

My dealer got these in his demo-room; you can point them to the MLP - which according to Trinnov the optimal way of doing ceiling speakers for atmos/dts:x

Edit:
Just received a REALLY good deal on Amplitude8M and 9 * Piega AP 1.2 and DB25 cable. It will actually be hard to turn down; I will just pretend not being to interested for a while

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post #7221 of 8079 Old 05-22-2019, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
I can't say I've ever noticed "bass-heavy" recordings in two-channel upmixed to Auro 3D more than multichannel recordings (I usually listen to BD and DVDs in 5.1 rather than SACDs, though).

I believe Adam had a theory...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
This talk about Auro 3D copying mid and low bass to each channel and requiring a fix around for the bass to sound right when you use Auro 3D to expand two channel. Not my experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by appelz View Post
I think I have an explanation for why, but don't have the time to explain it! Leaving this post to remind myself to update it.

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post #7222 of 8079 Old 05-22-2019, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
I believe Adam had a theory...
Got a few minutes before my next flight, so I'll try and explain quickly. I can follow up later if it doesn't make sense, or reply to any questions.

I believe it has to do with Target Curves, and where in the signal flow they are implemented. When using PEQ, Target Curves and other other adjustments it is critical to understand the path, where Optimizer comes into play, and what it is doing. There are still some things I want to test, but I've been "homeless' for 6 months now and don't have a Lab to play in currently. I've only seen my wife 6 days since Jan 1 ! She isn't sure if I miss her or the Lab most....

Anyway ! So Target Curves. Target Curves are applied before Bass Management. So if your Target Curve for the LCR, or any non subwoofer, has a curve that extends below your crossover, then that extra bass gets routed to the subs. Then the Target Curve for your subs is added on top of that. I see that many of you are using something close to the "Harman Curve", so anywhere from 3db-5dB is added to the subs from the LCR's etc, and then an additional boost from the subwoofer Target Curve.
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JBL Master ARCOS Calibrator, CEDIA Designer, Home Acoustics Alliance Instructor LIII, THX HT1+ HT2+ Video, Level III Trinnov Altitude Calibrator
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post #7223 of 8079 Old 05-22-2019, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by appelz View Post
Target Curves are applied before Bass Management. So if your Target Curve for the LCR, or any non subwoofer, has a curve that extends below your crossover, then that extra bass gets routed to the subs. Then the Target Curve for your subs is added on top of that. I see that many of you are using something close to the "Harman Curve", so anywhere from 3db-5dB is added to the subs from the LCR's etc, and then an additional boost from the subwoofer Target Curve.
Let's see if I've got that right: So if I keep the LCR target curve flat below the BM crossover I'm safe to go?

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post #7224 of 8079 Old 05-22-2019, 08:57 AM
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Got a few minutes before my next flight, so I'll try and explain quickly. I can follow up later if it doesn't make sense, or reply to any questions.

I believe it has to do with Target Curves, and where in the signal flow they are implemented. When using PEQ, Target Curves and other other adjustments it is critical to understand the path, where Optimizer comes into play, and what it is doing. There are still some things I want to test, but I've been "homeless' for 6 months now and don't have a Lab to play in currently. I've only seen my wife 6 days since Jan 1 ! She isn't sure if I miss her or the Lab most....

Anyway ! So Target Curves. Target Curves are applied before Bass Management. So if your Target Curve for the LCR, or any non subwoofer, has a curve that extends below your crossover, then that extra bass gets routed to the subs. Then the Target Curve for your subs is added on top of that. I see that many of you are using something close to the "Harman Curve", so anywhere from 3db-5dB is added to the subs from the LCR's etc, and then an additional boost from the subwoofer Target Curve.

As the unfortunately instigator of Adam's most recent bout of homelessness, I felt compelled to mention the fabulous job both he and Steve Kujala (Heartwood Custom Interiors) did upgrading my 2012 Dennis Erskine built theater from a 7.3 setup to a 11.4.6 system (Procella/Triad). The pre/pro went from an ADA Mach IV to the Trinnov Altitude 32, and Adam produced one of the tightest FR curves with the Trinnov/QSC combo that I have ever seen in 25 years of following audio. Steve's work in getting the 6 Atmos speakers and new LED lights installed in the coffered ceiling was amazing as well - you can see the lighting in the attached pics.. Both tremendously talented guys, and they have my highest recommendation.



The Trinnov is a joy, and I am still figuring out how to use it. It clearly requires some management of the input stream to get the best sounding output. Adam's demo of the Live Aid scene from Bohemian Rhapsody was extraordinarily impressive, and has incentivized me to look for the best Atmos sources to feed it. If anyone has any favorites, please share!


Regards,


Joe
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post #7225 of 8079 Old 05-22-2019, 09:43 AM
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As the unfortunately instigator of Adam's most recent bout of homelessness, I felt compelled to mention the fabulous job both he and Steve Kujala (Heartwood Custom Interiors) did upgrading my 2012 Dennis Erskine built theater from a 7.3 setup to a 11.4.6 system (Procella/Triad). The pre/pro went from an ADA Mach IV to the Trinnov Altitude 32, and Adam produced one of the tightest FR curves with the Trinnov/QSC combo that I have ever seen in 25 years of following audio. Steve's work in getting the 6 Atmos speakers and new LED lights installed in the coffered ceiling was amazing as well - you can see the lighting in the attached pics.. Both tremendously talented guys, and they have my highest recommendation.



The Trinnov is a joy, and I am still figuring out how to use it. It clearly requires some management of the input stream to get the best sounding output. Adam's demo of the Live Aid scene from Bohemian Rhapsody was extraordinarily impressive, and has incentivized me to look for the best Atmos sources to feed it. If anyone has any favorites, please share!


Regards,


Joe
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post #7226 of 8079 Old 05-22-2019, 09:54 AM
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Alternatively, we could roll the curve off past the intended crossover, i do this currently:
But its going to be highly inaccurate, as you're still going to have a doubling up of the target curve on some frequencies where the speaker target rolls into the sub target, unless you get the transition between the two absolutely perfect?

The final option would be to add no boost to the sub target, and only have it on the speaker target, but then you presumably provide no boost to LFE?
Adams explanation must be Auro upmixing only. Adam did my initial setup and his LFE target is an extension of his LCR targets with a rise in the LCRs starting around 150 (ish) and the LFE continuing that rise!
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post #7227 of 8079 Old 05-22-2019, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by appelz View Post
Got a few minutes before my next flight, so I'll try and explain quickly. I can follow up later if it doesn't make sense, or reply to any questions.

I believe it has to do with Target Curves, and where in the signal flow they are implemented. When using PEQ, Target Curves and other other adjustments it is critical to understand the path, where Optimizer comes into play, and what it is doing. There are still some things I want to test, but I've been "homeless' for 6 months now and don't have a Lab to play in currently. I've only seen my wife 6 days since Jan 1 ! She isn't sure if I miss her or the Lab most....

Anyway ! So Target Curves. Target Curves are applied before Bass Management. So if your Target Curve for the LCR, or any non subwoofer, has a curve that extends below your crossover, then that extra bass gets routed to the subs. Then the Target Curve for your subs is added on top of that. I see that many of you are using something close to the "Harman Curve", so anywhere from 3db-5dB is added to the subs from the LCR's etc, and then an additional boost from the subwoofer Target Curve.
Hi Adam,

I would be interested to check on some further testing with the bass management. I hadn't given it much thought as most previous systems and any external EQ end up post bass management. I know much of this comes from internal architecture of the software and hardware, but doing the correction before bass management makes for some odd head-scratching conditions. Thinking back I can't determine if that confirms/explains some behavior I've observed, or contradicts it.

Maybe someone at Trinnov can confirm if bass management happens after response correction. If so, then the next question is to confirm where the low pass signal from each channel comes from and gets mixed back to the sub. If correction happens before the bass management filters, I'm surprised the bass management isn't engaged when running room correction, just as a multi-way crossover is. If bass management is done after response correction, I would think it might be very complicated to route the low pass back ahead of the response correction for the subwoofer, and rather it would be injected to the sub channel without getting corrected, else the latency of the subwoofer correction would need to be accounted for in all redirected bass. So long as the LFE (.1) channel is measured to follow the target curve and we can enter an easily measurable deviation (peak or dip), then it's very easy to test out in comparing subwoofer coming in on the .1 channel via LPCM vs in through say the redirected bass of the center channel. A third measurement significantly changing the low frequency target of the center channel would confirm what is actually happening.

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
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post #7228 of 8079 Old 05-22-2019, 01:41 PM
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Awesome - thank you!
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post #7229 of 8079 Old 05-22-2019, 02:14 PM
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Hi Adam,

I would be interested to check on some further testing with the bass management. I hadn't given it much thought as most previous systems and any external EQ end up post bass management. I know much of this comes from internal architecture of the software and hardware, but doing the correction before bass management makes for some odd head-scratching conditions. Thinking back I can't determine if that confirms/explains some behavior I've observed, or contradicts it.

Maybe someone at Trinnov can confirm if bass management happens after response correction. If so, then the next question is to confirm where the low pass signal from each channel comes from and gets mixed back to the sub. If correction happens before the bass management filters, I'm surprised the bass management isn't engaged when running room correction, just as a multi-way crossover is. If bass management is done after response correction, I would think it might be very complicated to route the low pass back ahead of the response correction for the subwoofer, and rather it would be injected to the sub channel without getting corrected, else the latency of the subwoofer correction would need to be accounted for in all redirected bass. So long as the LFE (.1) channel is measured to follow the target curve and we can enter an easily measurable deviation (peak or dip), then it's very easy to test out in comparing subwoofer coming in on the .1 channel via LPCM vs in through say the redirected bass of the center channel. A third measurement significantly changing the low frequency target of the center channel would confirm what is actually happening.
Botched that! I explained it poorly I see now. Thought I would as I was in a bit of a rush as the gate agent was calling for boarding to start. It was clear in my head what I wanted to say, but PEBKAC error clearly. If so many hadn't already read it and replied, I'd edit/delete and try again!

Maybe everyone should delete their posts responding to mine so anyone else reading along doesn't get hopelessly confused!

I think because of the process I follow when calibrating, with PEQ first, prior to running Optimizer, this morning that translated to Target Curves being applied prior to Bass Management as well, when that isn't the case. Taking care of the high Q modal stuff before running Optimizer, and giving Optimizer the least amount of work to do below 300Hz gives the best results in my experience. I apply my filters prior to Optimizer being run, so my fingers decided that stuff happens earlier in the signal flow, which isn't the case. It does happen before Optimizer and such is in motion however.

Signal Flow is Decoders > Input Levels > Bass Mgmnt > Remapping > Optimizer > Output Levels > Crossovers > PEQ, which does imply that Target Curve would be part of Optimizer. However, I did test this at one point, probably a year ago, in my Lab. I pushed a very bass heavy LCR target curve into a preset, and definitely measured a corresponding increase in sub output. That was when I started making sure my target curves didn't do much below my crossover point, sloping down back towards 0.

Adam Pelz ,Acoustic Mafia - Hear No Evil
JBL Master ARCOS Calibrator, CEDIA Designer, Home Acoustics Alliance Instructor LIII, THX HT1+ HT2+ Video, Level III Trinnov Altitude Calibrator
Mercenary Calibrator for Manufacturers, Integrators and System Owners

Last edited by appelz; 05-22-2019 at 02:26 PM.
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post #7230 of 8079 Old 05-22-2019, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by appelz View Post
Botched that! I explained it poorly I see now. Thought I would as I was in a bit of a rush as the gate agent was calling for boarding to start. It was clear in my head what I wanted to say, but PEBKAC error clearly. If so many hadn't already read it and replied, I'd edit/delete and try again!

Maybe everyone should delete their posts responding to mine so anyone else reading along doesn't get hopelessly confused!

I think because of the process I follow when calibrating, with PEQ first, prior to running Optimizer, this morning that translated to Target Curves being applied prior to Bass Management as well, when that isn't the case. Taking care of the high Q modal stuff before running Optimizer, and giving Optimizer the least amount of work to do below 300Hz gives the best results in my experience. I apply my filters prior to Optimizer being run, so my fingers decided that stuff happens earlier in the signal flow, which isn't the case. It does happen before Optimizer and such is in motion however.

Signal Flow is Decoders > Input Levels > Bass Mgmnt > Remapping > Optimizer > Output Levels > Crossovers > PEQ, which does imply that Target Curve would be part of Optimizer. However, I did test this at one point, probably a year ago, in my Lab. I pushed a very bass heavy LCR target curve into a preset, and definitely measured a corresponding increase in sub output. That was when I started making sure my target curves didn't do much below my crossover point, sloping down back towards 0.
Thanks for the clarification. That does make more sense, and would suggest it would be interesting to double check some sub only measurements through the center channel (center muted) while adjusting the target curve. I could see justification for level matching the subwoofer to the curve at and around the crossover with an offset of some form.

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
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