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post #7351 of 9270 Old 05-30-2019, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbm007 View Post
Here is our setup for Trinnov mic calibrations.



Extremely stable. can easily be moved around.


That’s a Great Mic Stand

Just ordered. Had to have one of those


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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post #7352 of 9270 Old 05-30-2019, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbm007 View Post
Here is our setup for Trinnov mic calibrations.

Extremely stable. can easily be moved around.
Sorry...I see the mic stand says frameworks but which base is that?

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post #7353 of 9270 Old 05-30-2019, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
...As I have recommended to everyone who buys this product, I HIGHLY recommend you use one of the more than qualified calibrators if you expect to extract the most out of your new "toy", or someone from the place where you purchased the product (assuming they have a qualified calibrator). This statement is not a reflection on how much you know or don't know about room acoustics or audio calibration. It is a statement of the complexity and multiplicity of options that the Trinnov presents and learning your way around the menu system.

Completely agree! While I had help in learning how to do the initial Optimizer setup, you can get so much more with a calibrator. Tag you were it! And you & I still have one more phase to do, adding another sub with different location & delay-distance.

Along my own journey, I've reached the point of competency in managing the menu, various choices, developing multiple target curves, adjusting levels to taste, changing speaker layouts, Optimizer, etc. What I will not do is touch the Advanced tab (i.e. IIR/FIR & other advanced) settings and I'm still learning the "art" of using measuring software. Learning the ropes is not like the typical AVR or prepro. But the results & knowing you're learning something special are worth the journey.



BTW - I just got mine back from Trinnov earlier today so will be in Sherlock mode for the next week, trying to locate & figure out a fix for a noise in my (complicated) system that developed mid-April, which looks increasingly likely related to some ground issue out of the blue. Comcast had to run a temp line to our house so could be related. I'm sure it'll be fun

Steve

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post #7354 of 9270 Old 05-30-2019, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
Completely agree! While I had help in learning how to do the initial Optimizer setup, you can get so much more with a calibrator. Tag you were it! And you & I still have one more phase to do, adding another sub with different location & delay-distance.
Steve:

I thought you were out of town. I'm going back to ATL week after next for another calibration, and if it makes sense, and if you have your "noise" situation solved, I can come back and help get your additional sub integrated the same week.

Send me an email on your thoughts.

Chuck
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post #7355 of 9270 Old 05-30-2019, 10:50 AM
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^^
Will keep you posted! And we got back Sunday afternoon from 9-1/2 hr flight, exhausted. Takes a few days to feel normal. Paris and a cruise through Champaign country in France, then to Sicily for another week; all photography workshop so out trying to create "stunning images" & subjecting your images for critique. Photo workshops aren't exactly relaxing Our other intense hobby...addiction...affliction. But fun & have something creative to show for the time & money.

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post #7356 of 9270 Old 05-30-2019, 11:26 AM
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Hi guys,


I need help, I just run optimizer.


When it is on, my sub is dead. When it is off it sounds normal.


Can someone help me ?


Thank you
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post #7357 of 9270 Old 05-30-2019, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy_HT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasalle
In the latest issue of WSR, they have started a series of articles by Trinnov based on the Trinnov white paper on optimal 3D speaker placement (and room design) to accommodate all three immersive formats.



Attached picture with simplified approach might be also handy as starting point. Picture has combined three immersive formats speaker locations info shared in Trinnov webinar last week.

Minidsp as an example has been mentioned to manage multiple subs in digital domain from one channel output from Trinnov. Here is a more pricey alternative to do 4 subs management with totally fully automated procedure. However, I recommend doing first the "subwoofer crawling" (search youtube for more...) approach in the room for finding 4 optimum room positions by listening or by measurement before 0.4 set-up done with either minidsp or antimode X4 or with something else. X4 info here: http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/anti-mode-x4.shtml.

X4 article from Stereophile: https://www.stereophile.com/content/...r-anti-mode-x4
The X4 can only do 2 sub outputs. It also appears to only use a single measurement position at the MLP, which is generally a bad ideal for any room EQ.

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post #7358 of 9270 Old 05-30-2019, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinamigym View Post
Sorry...I see the mic stand says frameworks but which base is that?
Just used the table that comes with the theater chairs

set the mic stand on top of it.
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post #7359 of 9270 Old 05-30-2019, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbm007 View Post
Just used the table that comes with the theater chairs

set the mic stand on top of it.
Ah...Now I see it. Thanks!

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post #7360 of 9270 Old 05-30-2019, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santodx5 View Post
My dealer insists that 4 cable is the correct and latest one for A32.

Can someone confirm?


Thanks
That is wrong, all new one uses the 1 cable connector; the old one uses the 4 cable connectors (both will work).

Edit:
I see this has already been stated

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post #7361 of 9270 Old 05-30-2019, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by RUR View Post
It matters not. Both mic connection methods work with the A32 and accomplish the same thing.

e.g. I'm still using the four XLR mic I purchased 8 years ago for my ST2 PRO.
As am I - no reason to change the mic for the cabling with my A32. I've only replaced the 9V battery once too...they'll last awhile with moderate use (and not accidentally leaving it on LOL).

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post #7362 of 9270 Old 05-30-2019, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
The X4 can only do 2 sub outputs. It also appears to only use a single measurement position at the MLP, which is generally a bad ideal for any room EQ.
That's why if you're going to go DIY, and aren't ready for pro assistance and constructing a baffle wall , I'd strongly recommend downloading and learning MSO (MultiSub Optimizer) and REW, which also supports multiple measurement positions that can be weighted as one can in the Optimizer. Not sure if you can import OmniMic measurements there, but it's pretty handy to use with REW. The assumption is a summated sub response as a goal, which in small rooms is generally recommended, and a rectangular room ideally. And certainly no less than two subs.

I'd also read the work that Welti and Devantier did on multiple sub positions for "best practice" ideas. Basically you want to create a virtual sub in MLP and as wide a sweet spot as possible for good sub response. Something like 1/4 & 3/4 wall sub placement with four subs, or at a minimum mid-wall on opposing walls with two subs (front and back is what I'd do) is the way to go.

See here:
http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=13680

A relatively easy to read explanation is in this interview:
https://hometheaterhifi.com/technica...-kevin-voecks/
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post #7363 of 9270 Old 05-30-2019, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

BEGINNING OF SERMON:
(snip)
I consider myself more than qualified in both areas but chose to have my initial calibration performed by a qualified someone (Adam Pelz in my case). I could then use what he did as a starting point for doing my own work - which is exactly what I have done. One of the better decisions I have made in this hobby.

Of course, YMMV!!

END OF SERMON
Same here...I had Curt Hoyt work with me on some speaker configurations and tune the room in person. I used his settings as a baseline for my own improvements, doing things like MSO, A/B of target curves and FIR/IIR settings, matrixed level for channels to "improve" the upmixed results, and the like (as well as speakers I decided to add for curiosity for Atmos listening because I had the channels available). While some may say you can get "80%" of the results with a Wizard, to really use the flexibility of the Altitude and do more than just passive calibration, I'd bring a pro in...even if just remotely over VNC, but best practice is to have them for at least a day, preferably two working with your room.

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post #7364 of 9270 Old 05-30-2019, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Same here...I had Curt Hoyt work with me on some speaker configurations and tune the room in person. I used his settings as a baseline for my own improvements, doing things like MSO, A/B of target curves and FIR/IIR settings, matrixed level for channels to "improve" the upmixed results, and the like (as well as speakers I decided to add for curiosity for Atmos listening because I had the channels available). While some may say you can get "80%" of the results with a Wizard, to really use the flexibility of the Altitude and do more than just passive calibration, I'd bring a pro in...even if just remotely over VNC, but best practice is to have them for at least a day, preferably two working with your room.
We are in total agreement on this issue.

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post #7365 of 9270 Old 05-30-2019, 05:19 PM
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Order placed Altitude32 and 2 x Amplitude 8m. Joining the Trinnov wave!
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post #7366 of 9270 Old 05-31-2019, 06:50 AM
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Halo,


I just played SACD via oppo 205, when oppo's SACD output is PCM, everything is fine.


When it is DSD, the Trinnov does not output any sound and front display has SyncOff.


Is this means Trinnov does not support DSD?


Thanks
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post #7367 of 9270 Old 05-31-2019, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
That's why if you're going to go DIY, and aren't ready for pro assistance and constructing a baffle wall , I'd strongly recommend downloading and learning MSO (MultiSub Optimizer) and REW, which also supports multiple measurement positions that can be weighted as one can in the Optimizer. Not sure if you can import OmniMic measurements there, but it's pretty handy to use with REW. The assumption is a summated sub response as a goal, which in small rooms is generally recommended, and a rectangular room ideally. And certainly no less than two subs.

I'd also read the work that Welti and Devantier did on multiple sub positions for "best practice" ideas. Basically you want to create a virtual sub in MLP and as wide a sweet spot as possible for good sub response. Something like 1/4 & 3/4 wall sub placement with four subs, or at a minimum mid-wall on opposing walls with two subs (front and back is what I'd do) is the way to go.

See here:
http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=13680

A relatively easy to read explanation is in this interview:
https://hometheaterhifi.com/technica...-kevin-voecks/
One thing nice about the Trinnov is it allows you to optimize the LFE separately form the bass management of your other channels which can be individually tailored or grouped to one or more subs.
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post #7368 of 9270 Old 05-31-2019, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by santodx5 View Post
Is this means Trinnov does not support DSD?Thanks
Correct, no direct support for DSD. Either convert to PCM in the player or set the player to Auto. The Altitude will show slaved word clock as 88.1 (Alt16) or 176.2 (Alt32/16) & it'll play fine. I've always left my Oppo 205 & 203 at Auto, with no problems playing SACD discs.

Steve

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post #7369 of 9270 Old 05-31-2019, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santodx5 View Post
Halo,


I just played SACD via oppo 205, when oppo's SACD output is PCM, everything is fine.


When it is DSD, the Trinnov does not output any sound and front display has SyncOff.


Is this means Trinnov does not support DSD?


Thanks
http://www.hiddenwires.co.uk/feature...-trinnov-audio


Trinnov was created in 2003. What about that time period made it ideal for a company focusing on 3D innovation to open its doors?
Back in 2000, most of the audio industry was focusing on signal processing with the goal of improving the quality of the audio signals. The outcome was the introduction of high resolution with 24/192k PCM or DSD. At Trinnov, our intuition was that any further technical improvement beyond this point (384k or 768k) would not translate to an audible benefit, even for the most talented sound engineers or the most discerning audiophiles. On the other hand, spatial audio was still very poor, providing huge potential for improvements that any listener can perceive. At this time the topic of spatial audio gained increased interest in the scientific community, especially in France with France Télécom and IRCAM (Institute for Research and Coordination Acoustic / Music). That context made it ideal for a company to start research in the field of immersive audio but the decision was mainly made out of personal interest. It was a truly exciting time as everything needed to be built from the deepest scientific foundations: translating the signal processing toolbox to the new field of spatial-audio processing.
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post #7370 of 9270 Old 05-31-2019, 03:23 PM
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After a long negotiation; my order for Trinnov Amplitude8M, DB-25 cable and 9 * Piega AP 1.2 speakers is in place.

I'm thinking of Ch, any good reason why I should skip Ch and go for 0h instead?
I will add one or the other during my next upgrade round.

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post #7371 of 9270 Old 05-31-2019, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
After a long negotiation; my order for Trinnov Amplitude8M, DB-25 cable and 9 * Piega AP 1.2 speakers is in place.

I'm thinking of Ch, any good reason why I should skip Ch and go for 0h instead?
I will add one or the other during my next upgrade round.
Do you have much Auro content or upmixed content using Auromatic? That would be an argument for a physical 0h (T in the Auro layout). Otherwise, if I had to choose one, I'd do Ch because it will (ass-u-medly) be supported by DTS:X Pro's algorithm, as would top middles (Tm), and you can simulate the T speaker through using two Top Middles playing the T content in an Auro context and possibly 3D remapping. We're more sensitive to sounds in front of us than directly (or near directly) above us, so that would be my thinking.

Also, on the DTS:X layout, the 0h speaker is on the same horizontal plane as the Ltm and Rtm speakers, although I'm not sure about the vertical plane whether the elevation for 0h would make a material difference over two Top Middles simulating 0h or replacing it for a DTS:X Pro upmixer.

https://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...ocessors/43381

Note that Ch wouldn't be playing any DTS Enhanced content directly, unless Trinnov is handling Ch differently than the Japanese AVRs (where they use an dedicated object between the center speaker and front heights to simulate a virtual Ch AFAIK).
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But we might be able to use the Ch for 3D remapping (pushing the center higher when it is placed below the TV) ?

Edit:
And I suspect the Ch will be used for DTS upmix when we get DTS:X Pro.

HT: Trinnov A32 (AL32-1632)/AMP8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
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Guys apologise if this is a silly question but currently I use a miniDSP 2 x 4 HD between my Anthem AVM60 and the subwoofer. Will I no longer be needing this with the Trinnov Altitude 16 as I am aware of its amazing room optimisation and don't want to have something in the chain if it's not necessary.. Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkohman View Post
Guys apologise if this is a silly question but currently I use a miniDSP 2 x 4 HD between my Anthem AVM60 and the subwoofer. Will I no longer be needing this with the Trinnov Altitude 16 as I am aware of its amazing room optimisation and don't want to have something in the chain if it's not necessary.. Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated
Depends if you have the channels available on the A16; else nothing wrong with using miniDSP 2x4 HD in addition. If you don't need it (due to available channels); it is of course better to not use it.
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Last edited by Berland; 06-01-2019 at 07:31 AM.
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post #7375 of 9270 Old 06-01-2019, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkohman View Post
Guys apologise if this is a silly question but currently I use a miniDSP 2 x 4 HD between my Anthem AVM60 and the subwoofer. Will I no longer be needing this with the Trinnov Altitude 16 as I am aware of its amazing room optimisation and don't want to have something in the chain if it's not necessary.. Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated
If you have just a single subwoofer, then you won't need the MiniDSP for certain. You will want to take advantage of the PEQ available in the Alt16.
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post #7376 of 9270 Old 06-01-2019, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by appelz View Post
If you have just a single subwoofer, then you won't need the MiniDSP for certain. You will want to take advantage of the PEQ available in the Alt16.
Thank you for your help much appreciated

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post #7377 of 9270 Old 06-01-2019, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
Depends if you have the channels available on the A16; else nothing wrong with using miniDSP 2x4 HD in addition. If you don't need it (due to available channels); it is of course better to not use it.
Thank you so much

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post #7378 of 9270 Old 06-01-2019, 01:08 PM
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Hi Guys,


I have been playing with the Optimizer, I am running 2.1 at the moment.


The optimizer creates a better SQ overall, it is more focus, it has better depth, details, 3D, body and texture.


Optimizer is like an unsharp mask/curve in Photoshop when editing a RAW photo, which is pretty flat. It boosts and enhance the photo and give more contrast and color. Excuse my terminology I am a photographer



Despite all the good things, I feel there is one negative aspect from Optimizer in my system. The sound is dry and can be rough and cold. The obvious one is the vocal, I feel the singer have just had a sore throat, there is a certain dry/hoarse quality and lack of liveliness. The bypass sound; although it is more flat sounding, it is more pleasant to hear and natural.



This maybe system dependent, I am using TAD horn for LCR, the details are crazy and more boost from Optimizer, make some high notes a bit unbearable.



How can I do less aggressive optimizer?



Hope someone can recommend basic setup that reduce the overall correction.



Thanks
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post #7379 of 9270 Old 06-01-2019, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santodx5 View Post
Hi Guys,


I have been playing with the Optimizer, I am running 2.1 at the moment.


The optimizer creates a better SQ overall, it is more focus, it has better depth, details, 3D, body and texture.


Optimizer is like an unsharp mask/curve in Photoshop when editing a RAW photo, which is pretty flat. It boosts and enhance the photo and give more contrast and color. Excuse my terminology I am a photographer



Despite all the good things, I feel there is one negative aspect from Optimizer in my system. The sound is dry and can be rough and cold. The obvious one is the vocal, I feel the singer have just had a sore throat, there is a certain dry/hoarse quality and lack of liveliness. The bypass sound; although it is more flat sounding, it is more pleasant to hear and natural.



This maybe system dependent, I am using TAD horn for LCR, the details are crazy and more boost from Optimizer, make some high notes a bit unbearable.



How can I do less aggressive optimizer?



Hope someone can recommend basic setup that reduce the overall correction.



Thanks
Without being in the room, it will be difficult for someone to know exactly what you mean by "dry/hoarse" quality of vocals. But there are lots of things that can be done to address it once it can be identified.

If you have something like REW or OmniMic and can plot the room response of the LRC channels and post them here, we might be able to provide some direction.

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post #7380 of 9270 Old 06-01-2019, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santodx5 View Post
How can I do less aggressive optimizer?
Look in optimizer settings/main settings: max attenuation and maximum boost.

Edit:
You can also look into advanced settings/calibration settings

I also have to mention that if you are used to listening to the audio that is not correct; the optimizer can take some time to align your ears to. I would recommend leaving it as is for a few days; before starting to adjust. Most likely the Trinnov optimizer is more correct than you

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Last edited by Berland; 06-01-2019 at 01:53 PM.
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