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post #7441 of 8493 Old 06-06-2019, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingwiggi View Post
Side surrounds can be placed slightly forward of the MLP and angled towards the MLP they do not have to be at 90 degrees to the MLP that might help with your narrow room.
You can also elevate the (side) surrounds by up to 30cm (over ear level). To avoid having them straight into your ear when sitting next to them. This is actually the recommended approach. Same applies to surround back channels.
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post #7442 of 8493 Old 06-06-2019, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
You can also elevate the (side) surrounds by up to 30cm (over ear level). To avoid having them straight into your ear when sitting next to them. This is actually the recommended approach. Same applies to surround back channels.

That will of course help if he chooses to purchase in-walls but as he said.
“Just not enough room between the end seats and the wall.”


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post #7443 of 8493 Old 06-06-2019, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingwiggi View Post
That will of course help if he chooses to purchase in-walls but as he said.
“Just not enough room between the end seats and the wall.”


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That is the issue. I only have about a 2.5' walkway between the side wall and my theater seating. I probably could barely make the bookshelf work for myself (careful to avoid when entering) but once I factor in my wife and kids... its an accident waiting to happen. I'd probably have to shelf mount the bookshelf much higher than reasonably acceptable to make it safe for anyone other than myself entering the room.

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post #7444 of 8493 Old 06-06-2019, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinamigym View Post
That is the issue. I only have about a 2.5' walkway between the side wall and my theater seating. I probably could barely make the bookshelf work for myself (careful to avoid when entering) but once I factor in my wife and kids... its an accident waiting to happen. I'd probably have to shelf mount the bookshelf much higher than reasonably acceptable to make it safe for anyone other than myself entering the room.
Mount a few Piega AP 1.2 speakers, or something that can be mounted directly on the wall.

Edit:
https://piega.ch/en/products/ap-1-2

I just order 9 of these. The main Trinnov dealer in Oslo uses them in their demo-room as well. They are great for atmos and surround/surround back.

Alternatively you can go for something like this (exists in both in-wall and on-wall variants):
https://audiovector.com/onwall-inwall-avantgarde.html

With 2.5'; you have plenty of room to pass.
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post #7445 of 8493 Old 06-06-2019, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
Mount a few Piega AP 1.2 speakers, or something that can be mounted directly on the wall.

Edit:
https://piega.ch/en/products/ap-1-2

I just order 9 of these. The main Trinnov dealer in Oslo uses them in their demo-room as well. They are great for atmos and surround/surround back.

Alternatively you can go for something like this (exists in both in-wall and on-wall variants):
https://audiovector.com/onwall-inwall-avantgarde.html

With 2.5'; you have plenty of room to pass.
Thank you! Those look excellent!
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post #7446 of 8493 Old 06-06-2019, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinamigym View Post
Thank you! Those look excellent!
Regarding the Piega, the wall/ceiling bracket have two holes for mounting. This can be a bit problematic for ceiling mounting; since drilling two holes in perfect position is close to impossible. Hence the trick is to create a new bigger centered hole - then you can mount them in ceiling in correct position - and adjust them against MLP by rotating the bracket around its centered mounting axis. Makes the job much easier.
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post #7447 of 8493 Old 06-06-2019, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
Regarding the Piega, the wall/ceiling bracket have two holes for mounting. This can be a bit problematic for ceiling mounting; since drilling two holes in perfect position is close to impossible. Hence the trick is to create a new bigger centered hole - then you can mount them in ceiling in correct position - and adjust them against MLP by rotating the bracket around its centered mounting axis. Makes the job much easier.


After looking closer I see what you are saying. Makes a ton a sense to drill a center hole. Thank You


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post #7448 of 8493 Old 06-06-2019, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
Trinnov HQ sent me a message that my new Amplitude8M was under testing and scheduled to be shipped today. Really looking forward to extend from 9.2 to 9.2.9.
9.2.9?

Where are you planning on placing these speakers?
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post #7449 of 8493 Old 06-06-2019, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
9.2.9?

Where are you planning on placing these speakers?
I'm going to guess he's doing .6 as FH, TM, and RH, with two speakers that are surround heights for Auro, and the last one being T (VOG). Or he's an Atmos kind of guy and doing FH, TF, TM, and RH, with the last speaker being a center height (CH) to plan ahead for DTS:X Pro.
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post #7450 of 8493 Old 06-06-2019, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
9.2.9?

Where are you planning on placing these speakers?
9.2 (wides)
+
Left top front (Lft) <== +50
Right top front (Rtf) <== -50
Left top rear (Ltr) <== +120
Right top read (Rtr) <== -120
Left top middle (Ltm) <== +80 (or +90)
Right top middle (Rtm) <== -80 (or -90)
Left front height (Lfh) <== +30
Right front height (Rfh) <== -30
Center top front (Ctf) <== 0; this one is not available with Atmos, but available as HC in Auro3D and will be available in DTS:X Pro (according to some drawings I've seen online). DTS:X Pro will also include Top (T) as T0.

Plus I'm sure the Center top front can be used for 3D-mapping (lift the center from below the OLED screen).

Edit:
I have no information regarding the coming DTS:X Pro from Trinnov, this is based on own research.

Edit2:
Next upgrade after this will be (some adjustment might be done; maybe dropping the LS1 and add more speakers in the back).
Left rear surround 1 (Lrs1)
Right rear surround 1 (Rrs1)
Left Surround 1 (Ls1)
Right Surround 1 (Rs1)
Top (T aka T0)

+ 2 addition sub's, making it 13.4.10 (if I go insane, 2 * Paradigm Sub 2)

Edit3:
We might also see some channels from the ground up in the future (next generation Atmos). I might actually manage to use all my 32 channels one day
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Looks like DTS:X Pro is up and running:

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post #7452 of 8493 Old 06-07-2019, 07:36 AM
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Looks like DTS:X Pro is up and running:







Ready for the DTS X pro



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post #7453 of 8493 Old 06-07-2019, 09:51 AM
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Intreating layout for the 9 tops speakers




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post #7454 of 8493 Old 06-07-2019, 10:30 AM
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Does anyone really know if DTS: X Pro is just DTS: X 7.1.4 with matrix expansion or does it actually have scalable panning objects in the vein of Dolby Atmos ... and if it's the latter, how will DTS address compatibility with older DTS: X decoders?

Any 4k disc content on the horizon or is this just wishful thinking on the part of DTS like IMAX Enhanced? A day late and a dollar short.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Does anyone really know if DTS: X Pro is just DTS: X 7.1.4 with matrix expansion or does it actually have scalable panning objects in the vein of Dolby Atmos ... and if it's the latter, how will DTS address compatibility with older DTS: X decoders?

Any 4k disc content on the horizon or is this just wishful thinking on the part of DTS like IMAX Enhanced? A day late and a dollar short.
DTS:X Pro is the real deal; like Atmos - no matrix upmix for DTS:X sources. DTS:X Pro is not ment for home users, hence compatible with older DTS:X decoders is not an issue (it will not work).

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Guys, apologies if this has been covered in the past but does anyone know if there is a way to Turn the Altitude 16 on and off, volume up and down and change HDMI inputs on the Harmony Remote Controls? I appreciate most have a much more sophisticated control system and probably don't use the Harmony remote but I use it in conjunction with other stuff and would b nice to know if there were any hacks or ways to get the Harmony 1100 to work with the Trinnov Altitude 16?

Thank you all in advance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkohman View Post
Guys, apologies if this has been covered in the past but does anyone know if there is a way to Turn the Altitude 16 on and off, volume up and down and change HDMI inputs on the Harmony Remote Controls? I appreciate most have a much more sophisticated control system and probably don't use the Harmony remote but I use it in conjunction with other stuff and would b nice to know if there were any hacks or ways to get the Harmony 1100 to work with the Trinnov Altitude 16?

Thank you all in advance
The profiles for Altitude16 and 32 have been updated by Harmony (for Elite). I use the Harmony Elite with Altitude32. I can do everything I can do via the original Trinnov remote and more. The Altitude16 supports "standby" via some weird keypress (or hold in button; check your manual). There is no reason for this not to work with Harmony.

Not sure about the Harmony 1100, but check with Harmony or potentially Trinnov. Works fine with Harmony Elite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
DTS:X Pro is not meant for home users, hence compatible with older DTS:X decoders is not an issue (it will not work).
I'm confused. If it is not meant for home users, then why will Trinnov be providing it to us?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
DTS:X Pro is not meant for home users, hence compatible with older DTS:X decoders is not an issue (it will not work).
I'm confused. If it is not meant for home users, then why will Trinnov be providing it to us?
I'm confused as well.

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post #7460 of 8493 Old 06-07-2019, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
DTS:X Pro is the real deal; like Atmos - no matrix upmix for DTS:X sources. DTS:X Pro is not ment for home users, hence compatible with older DTS:X decoders is not an issue (it will not work).
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I'm confused. If it is not meant for home users, then why will Trinnov be providing it to us?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
I'm confused as well.
Sounds like DTS X Pro encoding will provide for discrete channels up to 64, and that DTS will be doing this for the home at least on some movies/discs. Why else would Trinnov be stating they will update our Altitudes for this "for the home user"?

https://essentialinstall.com/news/ho...itude-line-up/

"Given Trinnov Audio is the first audio manufacturer to support DTS:X Pro, it’s likely that you’re wondering what the technology actually is. Well, it’s essentially an upgrade to the traditional DTS:X that has been available to residential properties up until now. The biggest change is all to do with the number of channels that are supported. With the traditional residential version of DTS:X there are just 11.1 channels in which to play with. That typically meant seven ‘bed’ channels at listener level, an LFE channel and four channels above the listening area.

For DTS:X Pro, there’s a limit of 64 uniquely-rendered channels, plus LFE. This gives installers much more freedom when it comes to creating the most impactful home cinema experience, while the listener gets a much better audio experience. "

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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I'm confused. If it is not meant for home users, then why will Trinnov be providing it to us?
It is ment for home use, but not for everyone - it is a version which exceeds the 12 channel limitation. Most likely created by DTS for Trinnov (and other processors like that) specifically. Point is, no normal person have more than 12 channels in their system - so this is for all the weird people in threads like this (including me).

If I'm informed correctly; DTS:X Pro does not require anything special from the source. DTS:X Pro = DTS:X rendering in up to 32 channels (most likely this can become up to 64 eventually).

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How many movies in the market have DTS or Dolby Atmos or both?


Most movies I've seen, have Dolby True HD 7.1.

So what is the advantage of DTS X-Pro with more channels if most have dolby.


Will Dolby introduce newer tech with more channel in the future for Trinnov?

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post #7463 of 8493 Old 06-08-2019, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post

If I'm informed correctly; DTS:X Pro does not require anything special from the source. DTS:X Pro = DTS:X rendering in up to 32 channels (most likely this can become up to 64 eventually).

DTS:X Pro will require Object metadata to be encoded on the disk. Very few DTS:X disks contain any objects, the majority of disks thus far have been 7.1.4 static prints similar to what Disney have been trying to pass off as Atmos.

Problem is, non of the current pre-pros out there including the Trinnov know what to do with the dts:x objects even if they are on the disk. DTS:X pro is an attempt to resolve that by enabling the 3D rendering and thus allowing DTS:X to render to more speakers.

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post #7464 of 8493 Old 06-08-2019, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by santodx5 View Post
How many movies in the market have DTS or Dolby Atmos or both?
Most movies I've seen, have Dolby True HD 7.1.
So what is the advantage of DTS X-Pro with more channels if most have dolby.
I think you'll find that before Atmos came along DTS had considerably more market share than Dolby

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Will Dolby introduce newer tech with more channel in the future for Trinnov?
I wouldn't be surprised if we saw 'Atmos Pro' sometime in the near future which would behave more like Cinema Atmos. Although I doubt that we will see more channels introduced for home Atmos.

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post #7465 of 8493 Old 06-08-2019, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
DTS:X Pro is not meant for lesser mortals

Corrected that for you
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post #7466 of 8493 Old 06-08-2019, 08:49 AM
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I'm confused. If it is not meant for home users, then why will Trinnov be providing it to us?
It is meant for home use, but not for everyone - it is a version which exceeds the 12 channel limitation. Most likely created by DTS for Trinnov (and other processors like that) specifically. Point is, no normal person have more than 12 channels in their system - so this is for all the weird people in threads like this (including me).

If I'm informed correctly; DTS:X Pro does not require anything special from the source. DTS:X Pro = DTS:X rendering in up to 32 channels (most likely this can become up to 64 eventually).
Since the bulk of consumer DTS: X tracks seem to be hard limited to 7.1.4, I would think you would indeed need the source to be mixed and encoded differently.

That is unless DTS is just using matrix expansion to help fill in the gaps and the tracks are still only 7.1.4.

There still seems to be great confusion in the land.

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Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 06-08-2019 at 08:56 AM.
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post #7467 of 8493 Old 06-08-2019, 09:24 AM
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Since the bulk of consumer DTS: X tracks seem to be hard limited to 7.1.4, I would think you would indeed need the source to be mixed and encoded differently.

That is unless DTS is just using matrix expansion to help fill in the gaps and the tracks are still only 7.1.4.

There still seems to be great confusion in the land.
Dan,
Not sure I see the "confusion". Think about someone playing back a DTS:X track on 5.1.6 or 7.1.4 (with wides instead of rears) on certain generations of Denon/Marantz, let alone a Trinnov. If the DTS:X track is "prebaked" to 7.1.4 (with sides and rears), what is it going on those layouts? DTS:X is rendering the source track to the layout you have specified as a user, which for Trinnov folks is based on the Speaker Configuration Menu typically. Why should DTS:X Pro be doing anything different other than removing the 11 channel restriction?

This will also likely be true for two channel sources using Neural:X upmixing, for the same reason, using center extraction. Why would it NOT be when the technology already exists in DTS:X up to the 11 channel limit?

I think some of this will be more obvious after the demos that Trinnov is doing at Miro Sound & Vision and elsewhere with DTS:X Pro get some traction in the industry.

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post #7468 of 8493 Old 06-08-2019, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by kingwiggi View Post
DTS:X Pro will require Object metadata to be encoded on the disk. Very few DTS:X disks contain any objects, the majority of disks thus far have been 7.1.4 static prints similar to what Disney have been trying to pass off as Atmos.
"Pro" is an indicator of more than 11 speaker playback, as Trinnov noted on the initial press release. No more, no less.

As I've heard it from @FilmMixer and others in the past, DTS:X is currently limited to 16 waveforms, which can be channels, static objects, or dynamic objects (or any combination of them). That's been true since the beginning. We were discussing this on the Atmos and DTS:X thread four years ago when DTS:X first hit consumer A/V processors. It just so happens that the vast majority of existing DTS:X tracks outside of a few from Well Go USA only use 11 of them, with four dedicated to the front and rear heights. Some folks with Yamahas have noted that they can tell via the on screen display when an "object" beyond 7.1.4 is in use for these tracks.

Quote:
Problem is, non of the current pre-pros out there including the Trinnov know what to do with the dts:x objects even if they are on the disk. DTS:X pro is an attempt to resolve that by enabling the 3D rendering and thus allowing DTS:X to render to more speakers.
DTS:X decoders have known what to do with the waveforms, given the limit to 16, since the beginning. The ability to play back to more than 11 channels is the breakthrough, and that is for consumers. IMO "Pro" is simply a marketing label for this enhanced ability.
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post #7469 of 8493 Old 06-08-2019, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Since the bulk of consumer DTS: X tracks seem to be hard limited to 7.1.4, I would think you would indeed need the source to be mixed and encoded differently.

That is unless DTS is just using matrix expansion to help fill in the gaps and the tracks are still only 7.1.4.

There still seems to be great confusion in the land.
Dan,
Not sure I see the "confusion". Think about someone playing back a DTS:X track on 5.1.6 or 7.1.4 (with wides instead of rears) on certain generations of Denon/Marantz, let alone a Trinnov. If the DTS:X track is "prebaked" to 7.1.4 (with sides and rears), what is it going on those layouts? DTS:X is rendering the source track to the layout you have specified as a user, which for Trinnov folks is based on the Speaker Configuration Menu typically. Why should DTS:X Pro be doing anything different other than removing the 11 channel restriction?

This will also likely be true for two channel sources using Neural:X upmixing, for the same reason, using center extraction. Why would it NOT be when the technology already exists in DTS:X up to the 11 channel limit?

I think some of this will be more obvious after the demos that Trinnov is doing at Miro Studios and elsewhere with DTS:X Pro get some traction in the industry.
Not trying to be argumentative, but...

A channel fold down is pretty simple and has been a staple of surround processors for years. Route the signal to a different speaker output and lower the added audio by -3 dB. If it's a Dolby TrueHD encoded track, just ignore the specific extension layer depending on your speaker configuration.

Front Wides in current DTS: X capable processors that support FW positions are derived by Neural: X matrix upmixing. In my Marantz 7702 mk 2 processor, it was labeled initially as a shortened form stating DTS: X + Neural: X. You could do this at initial setup if playing a DTS: X track at the time and with Front Wides chosen in the Amp Assign setup.

If a particular DTS: X track is hard limited to 7.1.4 with no dynamic objects included and you want to use more than a 7.1.4 layout, the only way I can see to do that is matrix upmix expansion.

Now, perhaps going forward some DTS: X tracks will use dynamic objects if a studio post house gets a Pro software update for DTS's audio mixing suite.

Maybe this is in conjunction with a new firmware patch like the one cryptically announced for Marantz's older immersive gear stating one of the features is a DTS: X update. A possible code change to allow compatibility with future DTS: X Pro tracks? It didn't say specifically.

There's still a lot of unknowns with DTS: X Pro. I'm skeptical for now since DTS was overstating their immersive format's capabilities during its initial roll out. It was proven to be no more flexible than Atmos in terms of speaker layouts and was locked at 7.1.4... until just recently.

Maybe... perhaps.

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post #7470 of 8493 Old 06-08-2019, 12:45 PM
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